QAnon and Yoga Making Strange Connections

[NorCal Dave]

Yoga getting together with QAnon, who'd a thunk? My wife showed me this article this morning.


Source: https://www.npr.org/2023/01/02/1146318331/yoga-guru-qanon-conspiracy-theories


It's an interesting read that follows at least one serious Yoga instructor as she went down the QAnon rabbit hole. Some of the quotes below are out of order from how they appear in the article so as to demonstrate the claim.

The central claim seems to be that, as many hard-core Yoga/wellness/New Agers can be averse to Western medicine and tend to seek alternatives, they drift into the anti-vaccine world which is also inhabited by the hard Alt-right and QAnon crowd. The two seemingly divergent groups end up cross pollinating:

Of course, many people practice yoga without believing in conspiracy theories. However, yoga philosophy and conspiratorial thinking have a lot in common, Remski said, making it easy to slide from the former into the latter.

In both circles, there is an emphasis on "doing your own research" and "finding your own truth." And many people who practice and teach yoga distrust Western medicine, preferring to find alternative solutions or try to let their body heal itself.

"The relativism around truth, which has so long been a part of wellness culture, really reared its head in the pandemic," said Natalia Petrzela, an author and historian at The New School. "This idea that 'truth is just in the eye of the beholder' is something which can feel kind of empowering when you're sitting in yoga class, but when it's the pandemic, and that kind of language is being deployed to kind of foment, like, vaccine denial or COVID denialism, it has the same power, because we're all steeped in this culture ... it can be used for real harm."

QAnon, in particular, may have a particular resonance for yoga practitioners, according to Ben Lorber, a researcher at Political Research Associates, a think tank that monitors right-wing movements, because both communities share the idea of a higher truth accessible to a select few.

The secret truth that QAnon followers believe is that the world is controlled by "the Deep State," an evil cabal of elites who worship Satan and sexually assault children. In yoga, it's more nuanced, but could include ideas like enlightenment or spiritual awakening.

QAnon — the baseless conspiracy theory that claims that a cabal of Satan-worshipping, blood-drinking elites control politics and media — is closely identified in political circles with some supporters of former President Donald Trump. But it also has a toehold in yoga and wellness circles.

Themes like everything is connected, nothing happens without a purpose, and nothing is what it seems are central to both yoga philosophy and conspiratorial thinking.

"If you've been practicing yoga, these are going to be very familiar ideas to you," said Matthew Remski, a former yoga teacher and journalist who hosts a podcast about conspiracies, wellness and cults called Conspirituality.

During the pandemic, many yoga teachers began to speak more openly about their belief in conspiracies, to the point that there is now a term to describe this phenomenon: the "wellness to QAnon pipeline."

The article then goes on to follows Guru Jaget from LA:

She ran a Kundalini yoga studio in the Venice neighborhood of Los Angeles called the RA MA Institute for Applied Yogic Science and Technology, where she taught celebrities like Alicia Keys and Kate Hudson. Part of why she was so popular was that she was something of a contradiction: She wore white flowing clothes, wrapped her hair in a turban, and could chant in Sanskrit, but she also swore profusely and talked about sex and fashion in class.

Jaclyn Gelb first took a class with Guru Jagat in 2013 and was immediately drawn in.

"A yoga teacher that talked like that, that was real. That was grounded," she recalled. "I knew instantly. This is my teacher."

But as the pandemic got going, Guru Jagat got more conspiratorial:

Guru Jagat shared her belief that the government wanted everyone at home for reasons other than public health. She suggested that the coronavirus was being sprayed in airplane chemtrails. She said that artificial intelligence was controlling our minds and suggested meditation as a way to take back control.

"And she said, 'This is what you get for spending the weekend on YouTube, watching alien videos,'" Gelb recalled. "That caught my attention, because it was like, 'Oh, she's, she's falling into rabbit holes.'"

Soon, Guru Jagat was defying local stay-at-home orders to practice maskless and in-person. On her podcast, she began to interview controversial people with fringe beliefs, like Arthur Firstenberg, a New Mexico-based writer and activist who believes 5G wireless internet caused the coronavirus pandemic.

Finally, even hosting David Ike:

But in December 2020, Gelb reached her limit. That's when Guru Jagat invited David Icke to speak at the studio and on her podcast.

"That just was not something that the woman I knew before would do," Gelb said. "That was so deeply offensive."
Icke is a well-known conspiracy theorist and antisemite who claims that reptilian extraterrestrials control the world. By the time Guru Jagat interviewed him in January 2021, he'd been banned from Twitter for spreading falsehoods about COVID.

Their conversation ranged from the lockdown to other far-right talking points.

"The wellness industry, it's been hijacked by all of this, this kind of woke agenda," she said.

It's an interesting idea and I found the notion of QAnon-Yoga people completely surprising. But ultimately the article is largely just one anecdote so it's hard to draw any conclusions. Guru Jagat could just be an unusual outlier.

Despite making this claim:

Guru Jagat wasn't the only yoga teacher to plunge down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole during the pandemic.

The article doesn't give any examples. I would have expected a little more from NPR, but this article is what I'm increasingly being presented with on my news feed. It's more of a short summery/advertisement about a 6-minute segment on Morning Edition that is in turn about a longer podcast (or series of podcasts). Other articles I attempt to read are often little more that various Twitter reactions to something.

I'll have to give the podcast a listen I guess, though I would have preferred a more in-depth article instead. Actually reading something just isn't a thing anymore. I'm reluctantly sharing the link for the podcast in case anyone else wants to give it a listen:

To hear the full story, listen to Imperfect Paradise: Yoga's "Queen of Conspiracy Theories" from LAist Studios beginning Jan. 3.

 

[deirdre]

She said that artificial intelligence was controlling our minds and suggested meditation as a way to take back control.

"And she said, 'This is what you get for spending the weekend on YouTube, watching alien videos,'" Gelb recalled. "That caught my attention, because it was like, 'Oh, she's, she's falling into rabbit holes.'"

well in fairness, the mainstream media (and MB etc) are constantly telling us that. Algorithms are bad.

It's an interesting idea and I found the notion of QAnon-Yoga people completely surprising

unless they are voting republican, they are not q-anon yoga people.

add: although i like the new term that popped up in my head "Qanoninos" (q anons in name only)

 

[RTM]

Isn't this similar to what Mick covered on episode 54 of his podcast?
Anecdotally, a friend of the family is into some of the healthy eating/slightly alternative foody stuff and seems to have went down some of the recent conspiracy angles. The recent one was some massive earthquake prediction in LA and San Francisco that was due to hit over the last few days. The Twitter account had the exact same thing for the last week in December and their email address is at Yahoo.
I think these types of things derive from being against everything mainstream and there's a kind of checker board movement towards increasingly out there ideas.

 

[JMartJr]

"Pastels and Pedophiles"

touches on the connection between Qanon and yoga. Of course when I need it, I can't lay hands on my copy of the book, but here's a bit from a review:

In particular, the authors provide some nicely detailed lists of women influencers who became involved in QAnon: "Yoga-centered Instagram accounts went from posting inspirational messages adorned with serene images of light and love to being littered with posts about child exploitation, sex crimes, the devil, and an imminent war between good and evil"

https://clcjbooks.rutgers.edu/books/pastels-and-pedophiles-inside-the-mind-of-qanon/

 

[Ann K]

The central claim seems to be that, as many hard-core Yoga/wellness/New Agers can be averse to Western medicine and tend to seek alternatives, they drift into the anti-vaccine world which is also inhabited by the hard Alt-right and QAnon crowd.

That leaves open the matter of cause and effect. Are the yoga people tending toward antivaxx/QAnon beliefs, or are they being specifically targeted by QAnon (whoever and whatever that is, and whoever or whatever is bankrolling them.) I get the sense that both are acting as quasi-religions: some are believers, and some are manipulators of the believers.

 

[Mendel]

Are the yoga people tending toward antivaxx/QAnon beliefs, or are they being specifically targeted by QAnon (whoever and whatever that is, and whoever or whatever is bankrolling them.)

Probably both. The yoga mindset with its anti-mainstream message just makes for a fertile ground, and probably mutual attraction.

It's a pity @Rory isn't currently active, I'm sure he'd have a lot to contribute.

 

[deirdre]

It's a pity @Rory isn't currently active, I'm sure he'd have a lot to contribute.

the Pastels and Pedophiles thread is basically the exact same topic. and like most political threads on MB, nothing of note was discussed.

 

[Vattic]

Here in the UK most of the New Age types I've met have been into conspiracy theories. A strong focus on what feels/looks right being right. combined with a near total distrust of mainstream authorities and experts.

Even met a few holocaust denying hippies. Not something I ever expected.

 

[NoParty]

"Pastels and Pedophiles"
View attachment 57101
touches on the connection between Qanon and yoga. Of course when I need it, I can't lay hands on my copy of the book, but here's a bit from a review:

I recognize that book...I almost bought the audio version in mid-Sept.
(according to my Amazon "shopping list"...I use audio for long drives. like my 20-hour shot to Yellowstone Thursday) but held off because I already own waaaaaaay more topical/trendy books than I can consume before I die. At any rate, Bezos has copies ready to go.

We probably have more than our share of yoga folks here in SoCal, and many of them do
seem susceptible to smooth talkers, dissing "the authorities." My bestie, however, is hardcore
(both in person & Zoom, these days) and she's among the most rational folks I know...

 

[deirdre]

We probably have more than our share of yoga folks here in SoCal, and many of them do
seem susceptible to smooth talkers, dissing "the authorities." My bestie, however, is hardcore
(both in person & Zoom, these days) and she's among the most rational folks I know...

yea, yoga by itself doesn't seem to me a practice that would lend itself to such things. it's probably something like 1% of yoga practitioners only are Qanoninos.

 

[Mythic Suns]

add: although i like the new term that popped up in my head "Qanoninos" (q anons in name only)

Sounds like something I ate once.

 

[Ann K]

Sounds like something I ate once.

I thought it sounded like a reference to the small children of Q conspirators.

 

[NorCal Dave]

As noted above by several people, some of this is similar to stuff in the book Pastel and Pedophiles. The authors were interviewed on Mick's pod cast and that was disscused, at leangth, here:

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ep...phia-moskalenko-pastels-and-pedophiles.11942/

My memory of the podcast was that women in particular, through yoga and wellness and other channels, were buying into the pedophile aspect of QAnon as it related to sex trafficking and the fear of young girls being kidnapped. BUT, they didn't really know what QAnon was, were unaware of some of the other QAnon tenets and may have never heard of it all.

My bad for not listening to the podcast again and going through the thread about it before posting I guess. This struck me as different.

Are the yoga people tending toward antivaxx/QAnon beliefs, or are they being specifically targeted by QAnon (whoever and whatever that is, and whoever or whatever is bankrolling them.)

In either event, those knowingly embracing QAnon or those trying "save the children" without knowing what QAnon is, it seems odd that QAnon would or could target anybody. It still seems to be a largely decentralized group of people that try to interpret Q's cryptic drops.

Although it has its origins in older conspiracy theories, the first post by Q was in October 2017 on the anonymous imageboard website 4chan. Q claimed to be a high-level government official with Q clearance, who had access to classified information involving the Trump administration and its opponents in the United States.[18] Q soon moved to 8chan, making it QAnon's online home.[19] Q's often cryptic posts became known as "drops", which were later collected by aggregator apps and websites.

The conspiracy theory expanded into a viral phenomenon and quickly went beyond Internet culture, becoming familiar among the general population and turning into a real political movement. QAnon followers began to appear at Trump reelection campaign rallies in August 2018,[20] and Trump amplified QAnon accounts on Twitter through his retweets.[21] QAnon's conspiracy theories have also been relayed by Russian and Chinese state-backed media companies, social media troll accounts,[26][22][27] and the far-right Falun Gong-associated Epoch Media Group.[33]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon

So, the person(s) writing the drops wants to recruit adherents, though to what end is unclear. Q is anonymous and doesn't seem to get any financial reward or devoted followers to him/herself personally. Or it's all the other groups on the periphery that use QAnon to gain followers?

At least some researchers have settled on 3 guys that may be Q. If they're righ, I don't see what their angle is yet:

In September 2020, Brennan speculated that the Q account was initially run by another person, with Jim and Ron Watkins taking over in late 2017[241] or early 2018. Brennan's theory is that the original 'Q' poster was Johannesburg resident Paul Furber,[243] a 4chan and 8chan moderator and one of the first online commentators to promote QAnon.[77][76] Evidence for this theory includes that Q's first password ("Matlock")[244] was cracked on New Year's Day 2018[245] and, due to the nature of tripcodes,[244] Furber was asked to verify that the new Q (with a new password/tripcode)[246] was the same IP address as the old Q. Furber described this as "a lot of work", but something he'd been "called to do".[244] Brennan further suspects that Ron Watkins seized control of the account from Furber by using his login privileges as 8chan's administrator.[246] Furber has denied ever being Q.[243] Both Jim and Ron Watkins have said they do not know Q's identity and have denied being Q.[79][247][241]

The documentary filmmaker Cullen Hoback spent three years investigating the origins of QAnon and its connection to 8chan, conducting extensive interviews with Jim and Ron Watkins and Brennan. In the last episode of Q: Into the Storm, the 2021 HBO docuseries he produced from this research, Hoback showed his final conversation with Ron Watkins, who stated on camera:

I've spent the past ... almost ten years, every day, doing this kind of research anonymously. Now I'm doing it publicly, that's the only difference. ... It was basically ... three years of intelligence training teaching normies how to do intelligence work. It was basically what I was doing anonymously before but never as Q. [Watkins then laughed and added:] Never as Q. I promise. Because I am not Q, and I never was.[248][249]

Hoback viewed this as an inadvertent admission by Watkins, and concluded from this interview and his other research that Watkins is Q.[250] Watkins again denied being Q shortly before the series premiered.[251]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon

One could argue the Watkins were trying to drive traffic to their 8kunn website, but middle American women? I've only glanced at 8kunn once in relation to QAnon, and I remember it as being as misogynistic as I had heard.

 

[deirdre]

I thought it sounded like a reference to the small children of Q conspirators.

those are Q-tots.

 

[Mythic Suns]

those are Q-tots.

I think I saw someone handing those out at a rave once.

 

[Mendel]

it seems odd that QAnon would or could target anybody.

they "target" anybody who will listen to them

a lot of QAnon adherents are actively proselytizing, I've seen it happen in a doctor's waiting room

 

[jarlrmai]

Yoga is a potential path to non critical thinking, in some Yoga there is a significant ammount of adjacent woo alongside the real health benefits of stretching and mindfulness that are the main known parts of Yoga. It also has communities that naturally link to all sorts of alternative therapies that lack a clear scientific benefit and are generally mostly harmless if a moderate waste of money or have purely placebo function but can prevent people seeking real medical treatment, but the same non-critical thinking that allows you to believe in them can be exploited by harmful things like QAnon etc.

Homeopathy
Aromatherapy
Acupuncture
Chiropractors
Numerous dubious massage/touch type therapies

Until the Q stuff the most harm I have seen in these communities is that they are often taken advantage of by multi level marketing schemes, especially those based around vitamins or food supplements etc.

In general these things look to exploit the gaps/inefficiencies in modern standard medicine mostly for incurable or hard to treat chronic conditions such as depression, anxiety, some gut issues, joint issues and other aches and pains where there is no surgery or treatments that are 100% effective. Also long term illness like crones, MND etc or conditions like autism, ADHD, Asperger's etc.

 

[scombrid]

Mercola and Mike Adams (Natural News) are playing a role here. Look at their politics and the communities to which they market. The GOP willingness to court these people that were generically anti-establishment prior to about 2009 has also brought a lot of the "alternative medicine" health folks into GOP. These are the independent voters that helped elect Trump because he was their anti-establishment white knight. Many of them think they have found political anti-NWO allies in the GOP. Note Tulsi Gabbard's leaving the Democratic Party. GOP, Bannon, Stone, etc... have aggressively promoted the narrative that Democrat = NWO. Heck look at Governor DeSantis' approach to Covid and his choice for surgeon general of Florida.

 

[Ann K]

real health benefits of stretching and mindfulness that are the main known parts of Yoga.

Stretching, yes, I can see that. But what real health benefit occurs with "mindfulness"? A placebo effect?

 

[Mendel]

Stretching, yes, I can see that. But what real health benefit occurs with "mindfulness"? A placebo effect?

Article:

Therapeutic yoga is defined as the application of yoga postures and practice to the treatment of health conditions and involves instruction in yogic practices and teachings to prevent reduce or alleviate structural, physiological, emotional and spiritual pain, suffering or limitations. Results from this study show that yogic practices enhance muscular strength and body flexibility, promote and improve respiratory and cardiovascular function, promote recovery from and treatment of addiction, reduce stress, anxiety, depression, and chronic pain, improve sleep patterns, and enhance overall well-being and quality of life.

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3193654/

 

[FatPhil]

Stretching, yes, I can see that. But what real health benefit occurs with "mindfulness"? A placebo effect?

Avoidance of glucocorticoid peaks.

 

[Ann K]

Article:

Therapeutic yoga is defined as the application of yoga postures and practice to the treatment of health conditions and involves instruction in yogic practices and teachings to prevent reduce or alleviate structural, physiological, emotional and spiritual pain, suffering or limitations. Results from this study show that yogic practices enhance muscular strength and body flexibility, promote and improve respiratory and cardiovascular function, promote recovery from and treatment of addiction, reduce stress, anxiety, depression, and chronic pain, improve sleep patterns, and enhance overall well-being and quality of life.

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3193654/

(bolding mine)

OK, I see you're including mental health in there.
As a personal note, I would find a health regimen that crosses over into woo to be something causing mental stress in me.

 

[Mendel]

OK, I see you're including mental health in there.
As a personal note, I would find a health regimen that crosses over into woo to be something causing mental stress in me.

Well, what effects did you expect mindfulness to have? (And you do get psychosomatic effects from there.)

I don't think yoga necessarily crosses over into woo?

 

[jarlrmai]

Its a big spectrum depending on the instructor, you'll get a lot of Yoga classes that are purely stretching and breathing and quiet time, then you'll get some that have more woo and so on, sometimes the instructor won't mention any woo apart from outside the class, it's very dependent, often the woo comes after people strike up a stronger relationship with the instructor.

I've done plenty of Yoga classes and never had a problem with it, but it is there hanging around on the periphery and some people may end up more embroiled.

I have heard other anecdotal stories from others about more serious issues, for instance a Yoga instructor that was starting to be more vocally anti-vax when the COVID lockdowns ended and a lot of people ended up leaving the class because of it, but its not hard to imagine some other people might be convinced by someone in that position.

Or recommending them other therapies like homeopathy etc to some class members with health issues.

 

[deirdre]

As a personal note, I would find a health regimen that crosses over into woo to be something causing mental stress in me.

the only thing stressful about yoga is you need to be on the floor often. Try tai chi.

Mindful yoga, or mindful exercise, requires paying attention and being fully present when you are moving. It means listening to your body (and learning how to discern your body's communication signals) so that you know when you need to stop and when you can challenge yourself to do more.

 

[obiwanbenobi]

the only thing stressful about yoga is you need to be on the floor often. Try tai chi.

Mindful yoga, or mindful exercise, requires paying attention and being fully present when you are moving. It means listening to your body (and learning how to discern your body's communication signals) so that you know when you need to stop and when you can challenge yourself to do more.

Tai Chi also has woo parts, but you can work around those and still accomplish a lot.

 

[Mauro]

Mindful yoga, or mindful exercise, requires paying attention and being fully present when you are moving. It means listening to your body (and learning how to discern your body's communication signals) so that you know when you need to stop and when you can challenge yourself to do more.

This applies to any kind of exercise, not only Yoga. Physical training in general develops two types of 'skills', I'm sorry because I don't know the technical terms in English, but translating from Italian they are called 'conditional skills' and 'coordination skills'. The former includes things such as strength, stamina or cardiopulmonary output, while the latter are the brain skills needed to control the muscles in order to execute movements in a technically correct way.

Even in sports where, apparently, conditional skills dominate (ie.: weights lifting, running) coordination abilities turn out to be extremely important, not only to get the best possible results out of one's strictly physical possibilities but also (extremely important) to reduce the risk of injuries. In other kinds of sports (ie.: karate, gymnastics) coordination skills are what matter most (even if quite a solid base of conditional skills is required, of course!).

How does one develop coordination skills? Being mindful of your body when you move! Which exact positions do my joints take? Which muscles am I using to achieve that movement? Which exact part of my feet touches the ground first? Where is my barycenter? Where are my eyes pointing?

So while I agree that Yoga gives a lot of importance to mindful exercise, it's also true that every sport needs it. You may not find this type of training in your generic fitness gymnasium (and in my opinion this is immediately a good reason to go somewhere else) but if one gets serious in a sport he's bound to find good trainers which will teach extensively about this, and if one goes into high-level sport this kind of training becomes dominant.



PS. I have practiced both Yoga (with some woo included too, which was fun to be honest even if completely unconsequential) and Karate (which is not totally immune to woo too, by the way), and in my experience mindful training is much more insisted upon by Karate than by Yoga (it's also much more difficult, because things move quite faster), if only because it's incredibly easy to seriously hurt oneself just by making one wrong movement while practicing, alone, a technique. We referred to mindless training as 'donkey sweat'.