My journey out the rabbit hole. Quite a rollercoaster ride.

[Gomen]

I'd like to begin by saying that I was never really a conspiracy theorist. What made me a committed conspiracy theorist was at the beginning of the pandemic back in 2020.

I had seen some 9/11 videos back in 2019 that made me suspicious but I didn't look any further into it.

It all started to take a different shift back in February 20, 2020. The coronavirus was starting to spread across to a few countries. I was really scared you could say. Since I stumbled upon Alex Jones videos back in 2016, I decided to check his coverage of the spread of covid. I literally ate up everything he said on how this is the end of the world, and China is to blame for this mess. I started to prep. I bought 400 dollars worth of groceries & face masks and gloves.

Yes, believe it or not, but Alex Jones promoted masks early on quite agressivly. I live in Sweden so I was probably the first one with an fppv-3 mask on at the mall. People looked at me like I was some sort of alien(hehe). This was back in February 2020.

After that I just got deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole. Another person who contributed alot to me getting down there was a women named by Amazing Polly. She was not banned on YouTube at that time(2020) and had well over 500k subs. She was sorta a qanon follower. She made an video about event 201 which was the tipping point.

I felt like I had my proof as event 201 was pandemic simulation exercise held in Oktober 2019.

I thereby started to check out 9/11 videos, freemasons, Jesuits, illuminati and the whole 9 yard of conspiracy theories.

I got engaged in conspiracy communities on discord & on telegram. I became a 'both sides' when it came to politics. I found trump funny but since I was a conspiracy theorist, I thought he was an evil guy.

I really believed illuminati ruled it all even tho deep down I knew it didn't make any sense.

The final stage of the rabbit hole is probably gematria. I got deep into that and got familiar with the a guy Named Zackary K Hubbard. He connects all these numbers to these events and believes that that the news is run by the occultic numbers which he decoded.

So I know alot about numbers you could say but since I was sorta a critical thinker, I wanted more. I decided to decode the news by the numbers and errors after errors started to come up. It wasnt accurate. That eventually lead me to leave and throw away all the gematria books since it was all just a hoax. Zackary makes 25-30k scamming people each month on sports picks by the numbers.

After that I stumbled upon a guy which is very unknown in conspiracy circles. His name is David Livingstone and he has his own website called ordoabchao.ca. He is sorta a conspiracy theorist but he usually sticks to legit sources. His webpage goes thru all different cults, secret organizations, monarchies etc and their ties to each-other.

I really started to trust him as my main source. I then read his last parts of his work on Russia and Trump. I didn't really believe in the Russian collusion because I saw it as "mainstream news bs", but since I put my trust in him, I started to believe David and all of sudden I started to believe what I read in the news.

David Livingstone doesn't write about typical conspiracy theories like chemtrails, 9/11 or reptiles. He sticks to real conspiracies which made me question if he thought 9/11 was an inside job. I asked him and he said no, and he said it was right wing bs. That made me very mad for a period of time because I hate being lied to(by conspiracy theorists in other communities)

Unfortunately David is quite anti-Semitic as he's a Muslim but he does a great job of exposing fake conspiracies and the right wing role in shaping americas conspiracy world. He even exposes David Icke on his site and many other right wing figures. I first thought it was a left wing agenda but since David was writing about conspiracies I put my trust in him.

Anyhow, after this happened I left pretty much all conspiracy theories I once believed for 2 years since the start of the pandemic. Mick West book has also helped me alot too. I never really believed in chemtrails or UFOs tho. I didn't have an interest in it so that's why.

I parted ways with my conspiracy theorist friends online and they all got mad. I started to debunk their claims and sources and they didn't like it.

What consequences did all of this lead to? Well, I manage to make my whole family anti-vaxxers. Now I'm trying to decovert by watching Susan Oliver who does a great job at debunking vaccine misinformation by the likes of John Campbell. I would really appreciate it if Mick had time to interview her. She's a scientist and her YouTube channel is called "back to the science"

That was pretty much it. If you have any questions, ask away.

 

[Mendel]

I felt like I had my proof as event 201 was pandemic simulation exercise held in Oktober 2019.

We've discussed this here, it's the fallacy of seeing people prepare for a (statistically) predictable event (meaning, an event that is thought likely or possible to happen) and mistaking it for an actual prediction or planning. Once that interpretation is stuck in a CT's mind, the idea that some people in leadership positions are competent and think ahead has no room any more.

The final stage of the rabbit hole is probably gematria.

I had to look that up:

Article:

Gematria [..] is the practice of assigning a numerical value to a name, word or phrase according to an alphanumerical cipher. A single word can yield several values depending on the cipher which is used.

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gematria

I decided to decode the news by the numbers and errors after errors started to come up. It wasnt accurate. That eventually lead me to leave and throw away all the gematria books since it was all just a hoax.

I believe that's actually the turning point. Once you find the energy to go beyond consuming CT content and "run your own experiments", you're mentally on your way back.

I parted ways with my conspiracy theorist friends online and they all got mad. I started to debunk their claims and sources and they didn't like it.

And for many people, this is the reason to not follow up on it.

Congratulations on making it out of the rabbit hole!

If you feel comfortable sharing, I'd be interested in hearing how your real-life situation (workplace, relationships etc.) have influenced your attitude to conspiracy theories: was the pandemic the only trigger, or were there some other crises in your life for which the rabbit hole offered a convenient distraction?

 

[Gomen]

We've discussed this here, it's the fallacy of seeing people prepare for a (statistically) predictable event (meaning, an event that is thought likely or possible to happen) and mistaking it for an actual prediction or planning. Once that interpretation is stuck in a CT's mind, the idea that some people in leadership positions are competent and think ahead has no room any more.


I had to look that up:

Article:

Gematria [..] is the practice of assigning a numerical value to a name, word or phrase according to an alphanumerical cipher. A single word can yield several values depending on the cipher which is used.

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gematria

I believe that's actually the turning point. Once you find the energy to go beyond consuming CT content and "run your own experiments", you're mentally on your way back.

And for many people, this is the reason to not follow up on it.

Congratulations on making it out of the rabbit hole!

If you feel comfortable sharing, I'd be interested in hearing how your real-life situation (workplace, relationships etc.) have influenced your attitude to conspiracy theories: was the pandemic the only trigger, or were there some other crises in your life for which the rabbit hole offered a convenient distraction?

I didn't discuss my real opinions at work but i did at home. My relationship with my parents & sisters was quite neutral when we discussed conspiracies. They weren't really interested in it but I kept pushing my theories on them, and they eventually stuck. They didn't personally search up conspiracy theories but they started to have more doubts. My big sister was mad first and denied my anti-vax claims & other claims about Bill Gates, but i managed to change her mind after a while. I changed my whole family viewpoint on vaccines unfortunately. My mother did take her 3 covid vaccines later in 2021. That was because she was pressured at work & my her sisters who were nurses. I thought she would die within 2-3 weeks so I was quite in panic and was really mad at her.

Anyhow, what triggered me to jump down the rabbit hole i think was due to my loneliness even do i went out with friends quite frequently. To my surprise two of my friends hadn't either taken the vaccines neither which weird to me. They apparently we're looking for answers too & found it by prominent anti-vaxx Americans doctors during the minor lockdowns we had in Sweden back in 2020. Talk about once in a lifetime coincidence .

We didn't have lockdown in Sweden like in America but i felt like I was mentally isolated by USA's conspiracy theories. After the covid conspiracies, i just sought more and more. It became kinda like addiction. I don't know if this just me but I've had problems with addictions before (nicotine & gambling). The thrill of getting to know a new conspiracy with little evidence was just another big dopamine kick to me.

I just felt like i had this knowledge no one knew of which made it more fascinating. I wasn't bothered by sharing it with others either at work or home all the time. I thought they were "shills" so it was pointless in my eyes. I shared them with my conspiracy friends tho.

I don't really don't know why I got obsessed by conspiracy theories but USA politics played huge role in it. Specifically right wing politics.

The only benefit I got by going down the rabbit hole, was that my English grammar got better & I spoke more fluently, thanks to hours of conspiracy talks in the american discord communites.

One more major part in why I fell down the rabbit hole was my unemployment. I didn't work back in 2020. Partly due to nihilism, which was contributed by conspiracy theories, which lead me to have moderate depression. Back in 2021 I got hired at our city's hospital since most people in my mother's sister line work in healthcare.

Since I didn't believe covid was so bad, I got proven wrong by simply catching covid when I was working as watch care taker for covid patients and other sick patients who needed lookout 24/7.

I briefly took my mask off when this patient was coughing. The patient took his oxygen mask off very often and my job was to put it back on. I didn't believe in masks either and i thereby got sick. The next day i was home bedridden with all sorts of symptoms.

I said this to my conspiracy friends but they just disregard it as a mild flu. That was probably the turning point for me among with my own research into critically analyzing conspiracy theories.

 

[Ann K]

I just felt like i had this knowledge no one knew of which made it more fascinating.

I'm convinced that explains a lot about those who get addicted to conspiracy theories. It's a way for ordinary people to feel important, to the point that they don't want to turn a critical eye on the stories they're being told.

 

[Mendel]

Thank you for your long reply, that's enlightening!

Anyhow, what triggered me to jump down the rabbit hole i think was due to my loneliness

conspiracy friends

I think the fact that you can find an uncritical, supportive community once you buy into their belief system is what makes conspiracy theories (and cults!) so attractive to people who feel isolated (and unemployment would have contributed to that isolation). People band together, and you feel close even though you're not:

I parted ways with my conspiracy theorist friends online and they all got mad. I started to debunk their claims and sources and they didn't like it.

Besides the gematria not checking out, catching Covid is of course another huge reality check. For some believers, it comes too late; I'm happy it wasn't too late for you.

 

[Scaramanga]

I really started to trust him as my main source.

I never rely on any one source. For example with UFOs I keep an eye on Jeremy Corbell, Richard Dolan, UFO Jesus, and so on for one perspective, but I equally look at all the skeptical and debunking sites, including this site, for the other perspective. Sites like The Black Vault lie somewhere in the middle.

I then have to do the hard bit...weighing it all up. When, time and again, I see the 'best' UFO evidence quite satisfactorily explained ( for example the Go Fast video, by Mick West ) that weights my opinion on the side of most UFOs being mis-identification. And by most I mean 99.99%

Are there genuine unknowns ? I think probably. But I side with those who think all the unknowns are rare and unknown atmospheric/electromagnetic phenomena ( I'd include the Hessdalen lights in this ) and have nothing whatever to do with aliens or dead bodies in refrigerators at Area 51.

 

[Gomen]

I never rely on any one source. For example with UFOs I keep an eye on Jeremy Corbell, Richard Dolan, UFO Jesus, and so on for one perspective, but I equally look at all the skeptical and debunking sites, including this site, for the other perspective. Sites like The Black Vault lie somewhere in the middle.

I then have to do the hard bit...weighing it all up. When, time and again, I see the 'best' UFO evidence quite satisfactorily explained ( for example the Go Fast video, by Mick West ) that weights my opinion on the side of most UFOs being mis-identification. And by most I mean 99.99%

Are there genuine unknowns ? I think probably. But I side with those who think all the unknowns are rare and unknown atmospheric/electromagnetic phenomena ( I'd include the Hessdalen lights in this ) and have nothing whatever to do with aliens or dead bodies in refrigerators at Area 51.

Yeah, that was also one way of deconverting from conspiracy theories. Getting sources from different perspectives and different individuals who are experts in their fields. I never got into the UFO hysteria, because I simply thought it was a hoax set up by governments. Yes, believe it or not, but this is widely believed in more serious conspiracy circles. Specifically those that give "half truths, half lies" conspiracy communities. So you could say, that conspiracy did some of us a favour

I learned alot these two years from speaking to like-minded people. Like Mick West mentioned in his book, there are different levels to the rabbit hole. The fringe ones aren't taken that seriously by the majority of conspiracy theorists. Like the reptiles rules the world one. Chem- Trails is seen as more plausible therefore, more people tend to believe it.


One noticable thing I noticed was that alot of conspiracy theorists tended to be outlaws of some sort. Specifically those that I talked to online. One was a single mother, the other was a single father, and the others were lonely as I was sitting at home reading up conspiracy theories to get the next dopamine hit.

Most of them had no idea of how economic structures work, or what capitalism or communism were. They mostly thought socialism was evil, without explaining why. This never got to me, because I live in a social democracy here in Sweden, and we do quite well in terms of well being. Free healthcare, free access to Universities with degrees only and alot more.

Only of the contributing factors that lead to me deconverting was not only my own research out the rabbit hole, it was by debunking religion. I used to be a fence sitter when I was in conspiracy theories. Many are to this day atheists in the conspiracy theory world.

This lead me to research Christianity to see if it made sense or not, thru and experts viewpoint. I looked up and read books by Bart Ehrman & Richard Carrier. These two guys are experts, and they helped me see Christianity thru a different lense then those hyped by up christian fundamentals in conspiracy circles. This lead me to question the big conspiracy theories and lead me to Mike West & others.

I'm out of it now, but I'm still very angry for falling for lies. I had a hard time believing people would lie to confirm to their own world view based upon dogmatic christian beliefs.

I used to follow Anthony Patch for example, and he was that sort of. Christian fundamental. Feared his audience up by saying the vaccines were the end all be all. The end is near. He kept putting up certain periods were something would go down(world wide cyber attack, for example), but it never happened. He relied alot upon cherry picking vaccine studies and his interpretation side by side his biblical interpretation of it. The covid vaccine being the mark of the beast and that Klaus Schwab & the great reset was leading up to the end of the world..

It never happened. The pandemic ended. Anthony thought it would continue until the end times but it didn't. I'm glad I unsubbed to that freak. I actually paid 10 dollars a month to listing to his 3-weekly Livestream.

 

[DEEX]

Yeah, that was also one way of deconverting from conspiracy theories. Getting sources from different perspectives and different individuals who are experts in their fields. I never got into the UFO hysteria, because I simply thought it was a hoax set up by governments. Yes, believe it or not, but this is widely believed in more serious conspiracy circles. Specifically those that give "half truths, half lies" conspiracy communities. So you could say, that conspiracy did some of us a favour

I learned alot these two years from speaking to like-minded people. Like Mick West mentioned in his book, there are different levels to the rabbit hole. The fringe ones aren't taken that seriously by the majority of conspiracy theorists. Like the reptiles rules the world one. Chem- Trails is seen as more plausible therefore, more people tend to believe it.


One noticable thing I noticed was that alot of conspiracy theorists tended to be outlaws of some sort. Specifically those that I talked to online. One was a single mother, the other was a single father, and the others were lonely as I was sitting at home reading up conspiracy theories to get the next dopamine hit.

Most of them had no idea of how economic structures work, or what capitalism or communism were. They mostly thought socialism was evil, without explaining why. This never got to me, because I live in a social democracy here in Sweden, and we do quite well in terms of well being. Free healthcare, free access to Universities with degrees only and alot more.

Only of the contributing factors that lead to me deconverting was not only my own research out the rabbit hole, it was by debunking religion. I used to be a fence sitter when I was in conspiracy theories. Many are to this day atheists in the conspiracy theory world.

This lead me to research Christianity to see if it made sense or not, thru and experts viewpoint. I looked up and read books by Bart Ehrman & Richard Carrier. These two guys are experts, and they helped me see Christianity thru a different lense then those hyped by up christian fundamentals in conspiracy circles. This lead me to question the big conspiracy theories and lead me to Mike West & others.

I'm out of it now, but I'm still very angry for falling for lies. I had a hard time believing people would lie to confirm to their own world view based upon dogmatic christian beliefs.

I used to follow Anthony Patch for example, and he was that sort of. Christian fundamental. Feared his audience up by saying the vaccines were the end all be all. The end is near. He kept putting up certain periods were something would go down(world wide cyber attack, for example), but it never happened. He relied alot upon cherry picking vaccine studies and his interpretation side by side his biblical interpretation of it. The covid vaccine being the mark of the beast and that Klaus Schwab & the great reset was leading up to the end of the world..

It never happened. The pandemic ended. Anthony thought it would continue until the end times but it didn't. I'm glad I unsubbed to that freak. I actually paid 10 dollars a month to listing to his 3-weekly Livestream.

Many experience such a process. Each in their own way.

Nietzsche wrote:
“Truths are illusions which we have forgotten are illusions.” and “What is the truth, but a lie agreed upon.”
"The destruction of an illusion does not produce truth - but only one more piece of ignorance, an extension of our ’empty space’,
an increase of our ‘desert.’"

James W. Sire defines a worldview as "a commitment, a fundamental orientation of the heart, that can be expressed as a story or in a set of presuppositions (assumptions which may be true, partially true, or entirely false) which we hold (consciously or subconsciously, consistently or inconsistently) about the basic construction of reality, and that provides the foundation on which we live and move and have our being." He suggests that "we should all think in terms of worldviews, that is, with a consciousness not only of our own way of thought but also that of other people, so that we can first understand and then genuinely communicate with others in our pluralistic society."

Worth reading: The Authoritarian Dynamic – by Karen Stenner.

​

 

[FatPhil]

James W. Sire defines a worldview as "a commitment, a fundamental orientation of the heart, that can be expressed as a story or in a set of presuppositions (assumptions which may be true, partially true, or entirely false) which we hold (consciously or subconsciously, consistently or inconsistently) about the basic construction of reality, and that provides the foundation on which we live and move and have our being." He suggests that "we should all think in terms of worldviews, that is, with a consciousness not only of our own way of thought but also that of other people, so that we can first understand and then genuinely communicate with others in our pluralistic society."

I'm perturbed that "explanatory" was not a necessary feature of worldviews. "Predictive" is even better, but once you've got "explanatory", "predictive" tends to follow.

 

[Mendel]

@FatPhil I made a new thread for Worldview at https://www.metabunk.org/threads/worldview.13123/ , please find my reply there.