President Trump And First Lady Test Positive For The Coronavirus

deirdre

Senior Member.
Conley is Trump's doctor
https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...s-at-meadows-for-contradicting-doctor-reports
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
walter reed doctors give briefing on his symptoms, timeline (kinda) and treatments. oxygen dropped briefly twice but since sat am oxygen good without support (brief drop saturday morning to 93% but no oxygen given) and no fever since sat am. oxygen was never below 90<reporter asked if below 90.


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI_iaXtlOWY
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Trump's "Spin doctor" ...too.
...getting details out of him is like pulling teeth, so he's a dentist also.
YEA THE SECOND DOCTOR AT ABOUT 2:40 was talking about his heart, liver, kidney tests and said "continued normal finding or improving findings".

the third doc says in regards to remsdevir side effects "his liver and kidney function remains normal".

Conley said there were some "expected findings but nothing of concern" in his lung ct scans. and they are making sure he is up and moving around which is a technique to help ward off pneumonia. obviously mucus in the lungs even with a normal cold is to be expected somewhat. But i like the term "spin doctor" ..fits in this case.
 

TEEJ

Senior Member.
YEA THE SECOND DOCTOR AT ABOUT 2:40 was talking about his heart, liver, kidney tests and said "continued normal finding or improving findings".

the third doc says in regards to remsdevir side effects "his liver and kidney function remains normal".

Conley said there were some "expected findings but nothing of concern" in his lung ct scans. and they are making sure he is up and moving around which is a technique to help ward off pneumonia. obviously mucus in the lungs even with a normal cold is to be expected somewhat. But i like the term "spin doctor" ..fits in this case.

I concur with "spin doctor" but you have to see it from his perspective. Conley is not just a doctor but a US Navy Officer. Trump as his commander-in-chief was no doubt controlling him completely during the initial stages. A very difficult position for Dr Conley, but Trump would no doubt have used that absolute power over him.

No doubt WH Chief of Staff Mark Meadows felt the wrath of Trump after his Friday statement to the press.

This was Meadows during the Sunday briefing by Dr Conley. Somehow I think that he is feeling the pressure :)

meadows.jpg
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Rudolph Giuliani was on Good Morning America (ABC) today, seemed somewhat short of breath. Seems VERY likely that he has it, given his very close recent contacts with multiple carriers.

Pence also seems at risk. See this map of connections.


It seems to me that the desire to control the narrative is continuing to override reality. I'm not sure it's going to change until someone gets dangerously ill. That's likely going to be one of the older people, like Giuliani (76) or Trump (74). Chris Christie is also in particular danger has he's obese and has asthma.
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
https://www.kiro7.com/news/trending...reakdown-symptoms/YRC3CCK2NFD2THIYJHT35447AU/

This is day five.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
It may be day 5, but everyone is different, and infections don't follow a schedule, and that average schedule wasn't put together from patients who received remdesivir and antibodies. Trump's health is what it is.
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
It may be day 5, but everyone is different, and infections don't follow a schedule, and that average schedule wasn't put together from patients who received remdesivir and antibodies. Trump's health is what it is.

Infections kind of do have a typical progression. There are different tracks, and this one can take an extraordinarily sharp turn for the worse.

These experimental drugs have the potential to make things worse. He's going all in on dosages. A narcissist's way of doing things.

He's trying to impose his will on reality. He's cured... because he says he is. And what he says, goes. Reality won't dare to argue.

Downplaying Covid so he'll be less wrong about it. Repairing his Strongman image, which has taken a big hit late in the campaign.
 
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Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
President Trump's medical team once again held a briefing outside Walter Reed National Military Medical Center on Monday for an update on the president's COVID-19 treatment.

Okay, is that because they don't think they should... or because they don't dare?
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
Okay, is that because they don't think they should... or because they don't dare?
As long as he's not on oxygen, he won't need to suddenly be intubated; an O2 meter isn't that big and can be pretty mobile. They've done the general diagnostics; they're probably having a helicopter on standby. If you see Trump in Mar-a-Lago, then he's really back to full health; to be in the White House, he just needs to be in stable condition. (I'm not a doctor, this is just my guess.)
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
Source: https://youtu.be/ZApWTnkpS0U


A possible resolution to everything that doesn't make sense in this case is to assume the patient has been in charge of treatment.
 
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Mendel

Senior Member.
REM disappear and rent a center. Ha ha.
Youtube's automatically generated (by AI) subtitles.

The interview is a lot of speculation out of very little actual information. I don't trust any of its conclusions.
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
Source: https://youtu.be/lzOiY7LJ7LI

Sunday
Source: https://youtu.be/OqGnQkpV1lU

After the White House "modified stress-test" (climbing those stairs)





Trump is a sick man pretending to be a cured man. His symptoms are moderate enough to do so. Dexamethasone has physical and cognitive effects; making people feel much better than they are. Wednesday, Thursday and Friday are the days there might be a crisis and re-hospitalization.

In the meantime he is acting recklessly.
 
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Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
Source: https://youtu.be/M_6AOS0fot8?t=324

Having suffered from asthma and bronchitis I can say this is absolutely reduced lung capacity/fighting for breath. One giveaway is lifting the shoulders while breathing in. Lifting the chin and stretching out the neck. Swallowing hard. Lifting up on the toes. Done that.

After the salute, the grimace and suffering look... and the little spasmodic movements... all come from trying not to cough. I can feel exactly what's going on.
 
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Mendel

Senior Member.
Sorry for the multiple posts, I'm sending these as I find them.
Having suffered from asthma and bronchitis I can say this is absolutely reduced lung capacity/fighting for breath. One giveaway is lifting the shoulders while breathing in. Lifting the chin and stretching out the neck. Swallowing hard. Lifting up on the toes. Done that.

After the salute, the grimace and suffering look... and the little spasmodic movements... all come from trying not to cough. I can feel exactly what's going on.
Dr Wachter agrees.
Source: https://twitter.com/Bob_Wachter/status/1313341075621208070
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
I can say this is absolutely reduced lung capacity/fighting for breath.

what does he normally look like walking up those stairs at that pace? Don't get me wrong i think it's silly for him to leave the hospital before the critical period, but we can't determine much from your video without comparisons.
49676525177_71e1024a10_o_t800.jpg
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
I grew out of the asthma (mostly), and I've done a lot of weight training. I have experience with the two different ways of being out of breath.
Asthma/Bronchitis is a completely different experience from breathing hard, even really hard, from exercise.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Watch the full video of him from exiting the helicopter to going into the building, starting around 4:00. While he does seem to grimace a few times, It does not really seem that inconsistent with an overweight older man having just walked up some stairs. Lots of speculation here, but we've really got to wait and see.

Source: https://youtu.be/M_6AOS0fot8?t=247
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
There are physiological signs. If you're familiar with them, they're obvious. How many patients do you think Dr. Wachter has observed? If a musician says, "That first note was A sharp and the second one was B major," and you say, "I don't hear the difference." What's happening?

In any case there are a number of likely tracks this can take. One of them includes ongoing cognitive problems. What do we do then? Especially when obvious signs are ignored or denied?
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
There are physiological signs. If you're familiar with them, they're obvious. How many patients do you think Dr. Wachter has observed? If a musician says, "That first note was A sharp and the second one was B major," and you say, "I don't hear the difference." What's happening?
Probably less than Dr Talmadge King (who Wachter quotes in support), and King just says Trump was very out of breath after going up 30 steps.

I think he's sicker than he says, I think it's quite likely. But I don't think this video really shows that. A couple of awkward breaths, but he seems mostly normal, and then stays around to give a long statement without any noticeable breathing issues. This is just a few minutes later.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf_2u3WT1Rg


More of an immediate issue is the nonsense he's saying.
 

DavidB66

Active Member
If a musician says, "That first note was A sharp and the second one was B major," and you say, "I don't hear the difference." What's happening?

I think what's happening is that the musician is pulling your leg. There is no such note as B major. There is a note called B flat, but on most instruments (piano, guitar, etc) it is exactly the same as A sharp. (Pedantic note: in tuning systems other than equal temperament there might actually be a small difference, but I'll leave that to the experts.) In reading or writing music it may be more convenient to choose one or the other. For example in the key (not note!) of B major the note before B in the scale is a semitone lower, so it would normally be written in the 'A' space with a sharp symbol in the key signature. If you choose to write it as B flat you would have to put it on the 'B' line with a flat symbol next to it, so that it is not confused with B natural. This would be less convenient for the user.
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
I think what's happening is that the musician is pulling your leg. There is no such note as B major. There is a note called B flat, but on most instruments (piano, guitar, etc) it is exactly the same as A sharp. (Pedantic note: in tuning systems other than equal temperament there might actually be a small difference, but I'll leave that to the experts.) In reading or writing music it may be more convenient to choose one or the other. For example in the key (not note!) of B major the note before B in the scale is a semitone lower, so it would normally be written in the 'A' space with a sharp symbol in the key signature. If you choose to write it as B flat you would have to put it on the 'B' line with a flat symbol next to it, so that it is not confused with B natural. This would be less convenient for the user.
Heh. I'm not a musician... so I'll take your word for it.
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
Probably less than Dr Talmadge King (who Wachter quotes in support), and King just says Trump was very out of breath after going up 30 steps.



You're right that he's referencing King. I hadn't noticed that. He's referencing King's text:
President Trump very dyspneic walking ~60 paces (stop 2x) and up ~30 steps. ? was O2 sats w/ walking before he left WRAMC? His “energy” not real, probably side effect of steroids. Vitals Q2h. Check O2 sats. Give O2 during sleep. Lots of other concerns.

Translation of his text:
Trump walking with very heavy, pathological, breathing. (Or maybe: Trump is displaying pathologically heavy breathing as the result of the stress of walking, and it's pretty extreme.) He stopped twice after (only) 60 paces, or so, and went up (only) 30 steps, or so; (which is not a challenging stress test). What was the result of his pulse oximetry oxygen saturation with the six minute walk test before he left Walter Reed Army Medical Center? His "energy" is not real, but is probably due to side effects of dexamethasone. I would take (or I would prescribe taking) his vitals every 2 hours including his oxygen saturation. I would give him (or I would prescribe) oxygen during sleep. Lots of other concerns.

A dictionary definition of dyspnea includes shortness of breath due to exercise, but that's not the way an "expert in interstitial lung disease" is going to typically use this word.
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
You're right that he's referencing King. I hadn't noticed that. He's referencing King's text:
President Trump very dyspneic walking ~60 paces (stop 2x) and up ~30 steps. ? was O2 sats w/ walking before he left WRAMC? His “energy” not real, probably side effect of steroids. Vitals Q2h. Check O2 sats. Give O2 during sleep. Lots of other concerns.

Translation of his text:
Trump walking with very labored breathing. He stopped twice after (only) 60 paces and went up (only) 30 steps.

I'd translated that as I said earlier "Trump was very out of breath after going up 30 steps" - and that's really the only observation he makes.

Trump stopped twice before he reached the steps to pose briefly for photos. Those were not rest stops, they were two seconds of: stop, turn, wave, turn back, continue. It would have been less tiring to keep going. He then went up the stairs without stopping. He did seem a little winded at the top.
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
I've got the more complete translation done. Yes, he's not saying that Trump can't walk more than 60 paces and so on; he's saying that his breathing is the result of walking 60 paces, and so on.
A modified "stress test." And a really wimpy one compared to the 6 minute walk. (When I was a kid, the stress test was running in place for god knows how many minutes.)

I can see that you've never had asthma/bronchitis. Or done a stress test, or the "breathing out test" as I called it as kid. My mother was a pulmonary RN (during the last stage of her career) and I've talked with (too) many Allergists etc., so I know some of the lingo.

You may be able to talk normally when standing, but exercise really gets to you quick. You can recover fairly quickly and talk normally... or not... it all depends on how tight your chest is. It's largely about breathing C02 out... emptying out the lungs... but that's not what it feels like. There was one episode when I was teaching in Japan... I was really on the ragged edge. Should have gone to the ER but stubbornly didn't. I wonder how close I was to dying that night. My whole torso was sore for days. Muscle soreness from all the exercise of fighting for the next breath... and the next.

Thanks to goodness I grew out of this by the age of 30. Mostly.
 
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Agent K

Active Member
Stephen Miller tested positive, months after his wife.
Article:
White House senior adviser Stephen Miller has tested positive for COVID-19 and is currently self-quarantining, The Hill has confirmed.
Miller said he began a period of self-isolation several days ago before receiving a positive test for the coronavirus on Tuesday.
"Over the last 5 days I have been working remotely and self-isolating, testing negative every day through yesterday. Today, I tested positive for COVID-19 and am in quarantine," Miller said in a statement.
...
Miller's wife, Katie Miller, tested positive for COVID-19 in May. She is the communications director for Vice President Pence and at the time was the highest-profile White House staffer to contract the virus.

Edit: I think the article and Miller got "self-isolation" and "self-quarantine" backwards. He's self-isolating now, after self-quarantining over the last 5 days.
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
Over the last 5 days I have been working remotely and self-isolating, testing negative every day through yesterday. Today, I tested positive for COVID-19 and am in quarantine,"
thats useful. i was wondering how long it took for tests to show up. i think alot of my state's contact tracing testing was done too soon. (we're still doing fairly well.. )
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
"One giveaway is lifting the shoulders while breathing in. Lifting the chin and stretching out the neck. Swallowing hard." - is the way I put it.

Breathing hard because your chest is tight is a different experience from breathing hard from exercise. When I saw Trump I could feel what he's doing.

Something they don't mention in this article is trying not to cough after the salute. I can feel that too.

NYT

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/...action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

I'm seeing this same point over and over.
Taken all in all, I don't think there's reasonable doubt that Trump has had COVID-19 Pneumonia.

This is not to say Trump is going to go on to a medical crisis. He'll probably recover rather undramatically... with minimal lasting damage. There's always some damage.

But it is to say that he is lying. Knowingly. Egregiously.
 
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Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
The next three days are the classic days 7-10 when he might go into a severe phase. Only a chance.

But what is inevitable is that his doctors are going to take him off the dexamethasone sometime. When that happens the elevated mood goes away too. Sometimes there's a crash into depression.

Meanwhile dexamethasone can do more than elevate your mood.

https://globalresearchonline.net/journalcontents/v43-2/43.pdf
We may already be seeing this. People are already noting a bizarre energy.
Of course he's always been a bit bizarre... but there's room at the top.

I can see him not wanting to give up the "energy." So he continues to take it, takes larger doses... It's not a pretty picture.
 
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derwoodii

Senior Member.
The next three days are the classic days 7-10 when he might go into a severe phase. Only a chance.

But what is inevitable is that his doctors are going to take him off the dexamethasone sometime. When that happens the elevated mood goes away too. Sometimes there's a crash into depression.

Meanwhile dexamethasone can do more than elevate your mood.

https://globalresearchonline.net/journalcontents/v43-2/43.pdf
We may already be seeing this. People are already noting a bizarre energy.
Of course he's always been a bit bizarre... but there's room at the top.

I can see him not wanting to give up the "energy." So he continues to take it, takes larger doses... It's not a pretty picture.


you seem to be on to something here as his erratic nature now is even more bizarre..


People close to Donald Trump are reportedly concerned his judgment is being affected by COVID-19 drugs, with his son saying he was “acting crazy”.
https://www.news.com.au/finance/wor...t/news-story/c971ec3a1b2a60514256b4bb4a4dc04c

People close to President Donald Trump are concerned his judgment is being affected by the one of the drugs used to treat his coronavirus infection, according to news reports citing anonymous sources.
 

Leifer

Senior Member.
Any word on the other 30+ White House infections, or the more recent Pentagon infections ?
Is the Covid virus just a mild Flu there also ?

https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020...rump-took-to-battle-covid-19-report-says.html
Former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, who has been hospitalized for COVID-19 for nearly a week, told CNN that doctors have prescribed him remdesivir, an anti-viral drug that President Donald Trump took while he was recently hospitalized with the coronavirus.

It’s unclear when Christie told the news network about the prescription. But the network report late Friday has one of the few details known about his condition or treatment since he entered Morristown Medical Center last Saturday after becoming another person in Trump’s inner circle to test positive for the virus.
 
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