President Trump And First Lady Test Positive For The Coronavirus

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/hope-hicks-positive-coronavirus/index.html

 

Mendel

Senior Member.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/hope-hicks-positive-coronavirus/index.html

Now everyone in the room with him at the debate is going to have to self-isolate for a week, I think? Including Joe Biden.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
[transcript]
Readable version of that transcript:
Dr. Gupta, my biggest concern about the debate are the reports we heard from the AP’s Jonathan Lemire that there were members traveling with Hope Hicks on a helicopter and then on air force one, who, when they were sitting in the audience, were not wearing masks even though they were required to wear masks; and I believe Jonathan Lemire said were even asked, after sitting down without masks, to put those masks on. That would be people sitting inside, in a contained area, for over 90 minutes without masks. Talk about the medical -- the possible medical consequences of that and the risk factor for all those sitting around them.

>> there’s the video.

>> dr. Gupta?

>> joe, you bet.

Vitally important here is what you just mentioned. No amount of ventilation is good enough in an indoor setting to mitigate risk of transmission. What we do know is that the risk of transmission, because we know covid-19 is likely an airborne transmitted disease in part. It doesn’t matter if you’re 20 or 30 feet away you’re going to get exposed to the particles, particularly with the way the president was behaving and talking. The audience members, the fact that many in the Trump family were not wearing masks necessitates they must undergo a 14 day quarantine. They cannot assume a test, particularly the test they have at the white house is sufficient. Even if they get a negative lab based test they need the 14 day policy. The chances of an indoor transmission is 19 times higher than if the debate happened outside. This is why understanding the series of events here, if Hope Hicks was symptomatic Wednesday morning she was likely presymptomatic and infected Tuesday night, meaning she could have been infectious then to those around her. So was the president exposed? does that mean the vice president was exposed as well? and potentially could this be causing a cascading event? It’s vital everyone is quarantined and tested.

>> Dr. Dave i ask you the same questions as we see images of the trump family sitting inside after being exposed to somebody who may well have had Covid. How dangerous is this for them and for those around them?

>> Inside with air conditioning you have to think about the direction of the air flow in addition to just being in a closed indoor space. We don’t know in that conference room at the cleveland clinic which way the air was blowing. It was not filtered air. It’s not an operating room where you blow filtered air in the direction you want it to mitigate the risk of infection. It was an open conference room with ceilings and walls and air conditioning that was blowing past the president or toward him or past the family members in the audience or toward him. So everybody in the room is at risk, 19 times higher risk as Dr. Gupta pointed out. So there is no person who took part in the debate that should not self-quarantine, get tested and plan for the worst while perhaps hoping for the best.
 

Agent K

Active Member
Article:
The Conspiracy Theories About Trump’s COVID-19 Diagnosis Are Already Starting
After confirming his positive test result, Trump tweeted, “We will get through this TOGETHER!” But apparently QAnon followers read this as “To get her (Hillary Clinton).”

But QAnon isn’t the only group spewing conspiracy theories: Others believe the president is “faking” his diagnosis, and for a number of reasons. Some say Trump is pretending to have COVID-19 to get out of any future debates, or as a distraction from his measly $750 tax payments, or even to distract from the release of secret tapes where Melania Trump criticized her husband’s family separation policy.
But another camp of theorists, and with reason, think the president is faking his diagnosis so that he can brag about quickly recovering from a virus that “wasn’t so bad.”
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The conspiracy theories are going to rapidly evolve based on how his (and his wife's) symptoms evolve. At the lower end of the spectrum (and the most likely outcome) is they recover quickly then it's going to be "they faked it for sympathy."

If they become seriously ill, or die, then that's a whole different ballgame. Anything from poisoned by Hillary, to faking his own death so he can work as Q without interruption.

Travis View of QAnonAnonymous summed up the situation quite well in a tweet made before the announcement.
Source: https://twitter.com/travis_view/status/1311866819121041415
 

Nth

Member
Wow. Yeah, I straight-up didn't have this on my 2020 bingo card.

Upon reflection though, given the aggressively public campaigning Trump's been employing, it probably shouldn't be too surprising. Here's hoping he (and the First Lady) manage to recover -- much as I'm not a fan of the guy, I think wishing harm to one's political rivals is unconscionable. Also, like Travis View points out, Trump dying of Coronavirus will launch conspiracy theories into overdrive, which we as a species really don't need right now. Coronavirus, protests, and the election have already provided a smorgasbord of material to make CTs out of.
 

Agent K

Active Member
Wow. Yeah, I straight-up didn't have this on my 2020 bingo card.

Upon reflection though, given the aggressively public campaigning Trump's been employing, it probably shouldn't be too surprising. Here's hoping he (and the First Lady) manage to recover -- much as I'm not a fan of the guy, I think wishing harm to one's political rivals is unconscionable. Also, like Travis View points out, Trump dying of Coronavirus will launch conspiracy theories into overdrive, which we as a species really don't need right now. Coronavirus, protests, and the election have already provided a smorgasbord of material to make CTs out of.

Trump himself reportedly had a conspiracy theory back in March that's resurrected now.
Article:
Trump told aides he’s afraid journalists will try to purposefully contract coronavirus to give it to him on Air Force One.
 

Rory

Senior Member.
much as I'm not a fan of the guy, I think wishing harm to one's political rivals is unconscionable.

I'm not sure I want to see him die from it - might not be the best thing in the grand scheme of things - but I wouldn't mind a fairly serious illness that results in some humble pie eating and him publically saying, "You know what? I was wrong: that was awful, and way worse than the flu. Please protect yourselves and listen to the professionals."
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
this is actually a horrible thing regarding timing. if he does die he probably wont die till like a week or two before the election and then all those early votes will have to be thrown out. what a mess this year has been!
 

Agent K

Active Member
I'm not sure I want to see him die from it - might not be the best thing in the grand scheme of things - but I wouldn't mind a fairly serious illness that results in some humble pie eating and him publicly saying, "You know what? I was wrong: that was awful, and way worse than the flu. Please protect yourselves and listen to the professionals."

Sort of like Boris Johnson, without the "I was wrong" part. Trump did know that it's deadlier than the flu, but he admitted that he downplayed it.
Source: https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1249336590482243585
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/26/poli...-wearing-masks-supreme-court-event/index.html
Sat September 26, 2020





https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/02/politics/trump-coronavirus-path/index.html

Fri October 2, 2020

 

Mendel

Senior Member.
this is actually a horrible thing regarding timing. if he does die he probably wont die till like a week or two before the election and then all those early votes will have to be thrown out. what a mess this year has been!
Are you saying this is all part of a conspiracy to disable mail-in voting? ;)
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
Rapid progression of symptoms equals high viral load/poorer prognosis.
 
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Akton

New Member
Can we really know how fast the progression of symptoms is if we don't know when he contracted it?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Can we really know how fast the progression of symptoms is if we don't know when he contracted it?
Well, he wasn't hospitalized, or even seeming particularly ill, at the debate. So it's progressed quite a bit since then. He also gets tested pretty much every day, and certainly would have been tested around that time.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
https://www.texastribune.org/2020/10/02/donald-trump-jr-texas-event/

35 mins ago this tweet says. ?
Source: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1312158400352972800
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
Rapid progression of symptoms equals high viral load/poorer prognosis.

your quote doesnt say rapid progression. thanks for making me look it up for myself.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/02/politics/president-donald-trump-walter-reed-coronavirus/index.html
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
Source: https://youtu.be/-F2eLUjPiFo


The man has gone from fatigue to hospitalization in one day. If this were an ordinary patient, this is a very rapid progression. One might hold out hope that this hospitalization indicates an overabundance of caution because this is the president. But what changed from this morning to this afternoon? A worsening of symptoms? Or a change in the way they are thinking about this?

The next step would be intubation. If that occurs, all ambiguity will be gone.
 
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Nth

Member
I'm not sure I want to see him die from it - might not be the best thing in the grand scheme of things - but I wouldn't mind a fairly serious illness that results in some humble pie eating and him publically saying, "You know what? I was wrong: that was awful, and way worse than the flu. Please protect yourselves and listen to the professionals."
Yeah, for better or for worse, there are a lot of people who hang on Trump's every word these days. If he does get a bad, but recoverable, case and can turn around his rhetoric on this, maybe he'll be able to successfully sway his supporters who aren't taking precautions against spreading the virus.
 

Nth

Member
this is actually a horrible thing regarding timing. if he does die he probably wont die till like a week or two before the election and then all those early votes will have to be thrown out. what a mess this year has been!
Would they actually have to be thrown out? If Trump dies before the election, then Mike Pence assumes the presidency until January 20th, 2021. What I'm unclear on, and frankly the situation overall is pretty unprecedented, is if a vote for Trump would just transfer over to Pence, such that if the Trump/Pence ticket wins, Pence technically gets demoted to Vice President and then later sworn in as President on January 20th.

Gah, my head hurts. o_O

Either way, this information is still less than a day old. It's still fuzzy exactly what condition the President is in, and he may well straight-up recover.

Edit: At risk of revealing my partisanship, I really hope VP Biden keeps being smart about avoiding exposure to COVID-19. He seems to be in better physical shape than Trump (less risk of pre-existing conditions?), but he's still quite old and well inside one of the highest-risk age groups. It'd be quite the fitting crescendo this insane year for both major party presidential candidates to die.
 
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Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
For the MB members who live under a parliamentary system this will seem strange. We vote for an individual, not the party.

Clear: Pence would be sworn in as president.

Murky: Who would become the GOP candidate for president? The constitution is not relevant. Parties are not governmental bodies. There is no succession from Vice President to party candidate for president.

Clear: The GOP can nominate a candidate without the primary system.

Unclear (to me): Isn't it too late to name a legally registered candidate? Hmm.

Untested: Would early votes for Trump be counted as a vote for whoever became the GOP candidate?
 
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NoParty

Senior Member.
Would they actually have to be thrown out? If Trump dies before the election, then Mike Pence assumes the presidency until January 20th, 2021. What I'm unclear on, and frankly the situation overall is pretty unprecedented, is if a vote for Trump would just transfer over to Pence, such that if the Trump/Pence ticket wins, Pence technically gets demoted to Vice President and then later sworn in as President on January 20th.

Gah, my head hurts. o_O

Either way, this information is still less than a day old. It's still fuzzy exactly what condition the President is in, and he may well straight-up recover.

Edit: At risk of revealing my partisanship, I really hope VP Biden keeps being smart about avoiding exposure to COVID-19. He seems to be in better physical shape than Trump (less risk of pre-existing conditions?), but he's still quite old and well inside one of the highest-risk age groups. It'd be quite the fitting crescendo this insane year for both major party presidential candidates to die.
No. No votes would go to Pence.

Also, states would decide, one by one, whether to try to reprint ballots with Pence's or someone else's name...
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Yeah, for better or for worse, there are a lot of people who hang on Trump's every word these days. If he does get a bad, but recoverable, case and can turn around his rhetoric on this, maybe he'll be able to successfully sway his supporters who aren't taking precautions against spreading the virus.

and if he sails through it - because he is getting good and early treatment - it could make people less fearful :( they say very early treatment of these new therapeutics show the best outcomes.
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
No. No votes would go to Pence.

Also, states would decide, one by one, whether to try to reprint ballots with Pence's or someone else's name...
Remember that the Electors can vote for anyone, with no reference to the popular vote. So this is untested but not impossible.

And there are two layers. What the constitution says, and state laws. Some states have laws about how their Electors vote.

I can foresee a huge fight in battleground states about this.
 
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Nth

Member
No. No votes would go to Pence.

Also, states would decide, one by one, whether to try to reprint ballots with Pence's or someone else's name...
Yeah, that makes sense, since in this scenario the vote for President would literally be going to a dead guy. If I'm not mistaken, states administer their own elections per the Constitution, so would what happens conceivably vary from state to state?
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Would they actually have to be thrown out?

i would think so. if someone already voted for Trump that doesnt mean they would like his replacement. Trump isnt like regular republicans.
and if someone voted for Biden simply because they *hate* Trump, they might be ok with Pence or someone more regular because tehy dont like the direction the libs are going (ie. far left agenda, riots etc).

it would be a mess.
 

Nth

Member
and if he sails through it - because he is getting good and early treatment - it could make people less fearful :( they say very early treatment of these new therapeutics show the best outcomes.
I would predict that very few people would recognize the trifecta of catching it early, having access to the best physicians in the US, if not the world, and the President receiving the latest and greatest therapeutics as major factors in his survival.

But isn't this basically what happened to Boris Johnson, who ultimately emerged from that experience weakened, humbled, and with the proverbial fear of God in him regarding the virus?
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
Remember... once again, the popular vote for president has no legal bearing. Even Americans have a hard time wrapping their head around that one.
 

Nth

Member
i would think so. if someone already voted for Trump that doesnt mean they would like his replacement. Trump isnt like regular republicans.
and if someone voted for Biden simply because they *hate* Trump, they might be ok with Pence or someone more regular because tehy dont like the direction the libs are going (ie. far left agenda, riots etc).

it would be a mess.
Without a figurehead like Trump, I might could see some Republicans even staying home. For whatever reason, the man does inspire loyalty in his base in a way that few other politicians can, and I'm not convinced that whoever the GOP put on the ticket as Trump's replacement could spur the kind of turnout needed to beat a well-known candidate like Biden (even if Biden's numbers take a hit because people no longer feel a need to beat Trump).
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-usa-trump-election-ex-idUSKBN26N343

There's much more.
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
But isn't this basically what happened to Boris Johnson,
no. Boris Johnson worked too long through it and had to go to hospital because he couldn't breathe at that point and needed to go on oxygen.

Trump walked to the hospital and so far all i've read is a low grade fever and some fatigue, for most cases ive read about that's like 3-7 days away from needing to be hospitalized for oxygen etc.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Without a figurehead like Trump, I might could see some Republicans even staying home. For whatever reason, the man does inspire loyalty in his base in a way that few other politicians can, and I'm not convinced that whoever the GOP put on the ticket as Trump's replacement could spur the kind of turnout needed to beat a well-known candidate like Biden (even if Biden's numbers take a hit because people no longer feel a need to beat Trump).

i think they'd still turn out. the left is going too left, too fast for most people's sensibilities.
 

Nth

Member
no. Boris Johnson worked too long through it and had to go to hospital because he couldn't breathe at that point and needed to go on oxygen.

Trump walked to the hospital and so far all i've read is a low grade fever and some fatigue, for most cases ive read about that's like 3-7 days away from needing to be hospitalized for oxygen etc.
Gotcha, thanks. I'm not terribly familiar with Johnson's case outside of (largely) perusing headlines.
 
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