President Trump And First Lady Test Positive For The Coronavirus

[Z.W. Wolf]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/hope-hicks-positive-coronavirus/index.html

President Donald Trump and first lady Melania Trump tested positive for coronavirus, the President announced early Friday morning, an extraordinary development coming months into a global pandemic and in the final stretch of his reelection campaign.

The diagnosis amounts to the most serious known health threat to a sitting American president in decades. At 74 years old, Trump falls into the highest risk category for serious complications from the disease, which has killed more than 200,000 Americans and more than 1 million people worldwide.

 

[Mendel]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/hope-hicks-positive-coronavirus/index.html

President Donald Trump and first lady Melania Trump tested positive for coronavirus, the President announced early Friday morning, an extraordinary development coming months into a global pandemic and in the final stretch of his reelection campaign.

The diagnosis amounts to the most serious known health threat to a sitting American president in decades. At 74 years old, Trump falls into the highest risk category for serious complications from the disease, which has killed more than 200,000 Americans and more than 1 million people worldwide.

Now everyone in the room with him at the debate is going to have to self-isolate for a week, I think? Including Joe Biden.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

Source: https://youtu.be/likwlhfk3rM?t=110

[transcript in next post]

 

[Mendel]

[transcript]

Readable version of that transcript:

Dr. Gupta, my biggest concern about the debate are the reports we heard from the AP's Jonathan Lemire that there were members traveling with Hope Hicks on a helicopter and then on air force one, who, when they were sitting in the audience, were not wearing masks even though they were required to wear masks; and I believe Jonathan Lemire said were even asked, after sitting down without masks, to put those masks on. That would be people sitting inside, in a contained area, for over 90 minutes without masks. Talk about the medical -- the possible medical consequences of that and the risk factor for all those sitting around them.

>> there's the video.

>> dr. Gupta?

>> joe, you bet.

Vitally important here is what you just mentioned. No amount of ventilation is good enough in an indoor setting to mitigate risk of transmission. What we do know is that the risk of transmission, because we know covid-19 is likely an airborne transmitted disease in part. It doesn't matter if you're 20 or 30 feet away you're going to get exposed to the particles, particularly with the way the president was behaving and talking. The audience members, the fact that many in the Trump family were not wearing masks necessitates they must undergo a 14 day quarantine. They cannot assume a test, particularly the test they have at the white house is sufficient. Even if they get a negative lab based test they need the 14 day policy. The chances of an indoor transmission is 19 times higher than if the debate happened outside. This is why understanding the series of events here, if Hope Hicks was symptomatic Wednesday morning she was likely presymptomatic and infected Tuesday night, meaning she could have been infectious then to those around her. So was the president exposed? does that mean the vice president was exposed as well? and potentially could this be causing a cascading event? It's vital everyone is quarantined and tested.

>> Dr. Dave i ask you the same questions as we see images of the trump family sitting inside after being exposed to somebody who may well have had Covid. How dangerous is this for them and for those around them?

>> Inside with air conditioning you have to think about the direction of the air flow in addition to just being in a closed indoor space. We don't know in that conference room at the cleveland clinic which way the air was blowing. It was not filtered air. It's not an operating room where you blow filtered air in the direction you want it to mitigate the risk of infection. It was an open conference room with ceilings and walls and air conditioning that was blowing past the president or toward him or past the family members in the audience or toward him. So everybody in the room is at risk, 19 times higher risk as Dr. Gupta pointed out. So there is no person who took part in the debate that should not self-quarantine, get tested and plan for the worst while perhaps hoping for the best.

 

[Agent K]

Article:

The Conspiracy Theories About Trump's COVID-19 Diagnosis Are Already Starting
After confirming his positive test result, Trump tweeted, "We will get through this TOGETHER!" But apparently QAnon followers read this as "To get her (Hillary Clinton)."
But QAnon isn't the only group spewing conspiracy theories: Others believe the president is "faking" his diagnosis, and for a number of reasons. Some say Trump is pretending to have COVID-19 to get out of any future debates, or as a distraction from his measly $750 tax payments, or even to distract from the release of secret tapes where Melania Trump criticized her husband's family separation policy.
But another camp of theorists, and with reason, think the president is faking his diagnosis so that he can brag about quickly recovering from a virus that "wasn't so bad."

Source: https://news.yahoo.com/conspiracy-theories-trump-covid-19-152253267.html

 

[Mick West]

The conspiracy theories are going to rapidly evolve based on how his (and his wife's) symptoms evolve. At the lower end of the spectrum (and the most likely outcome) is they recover quickly then it's going to be "they faked it for sympathy."

If they become seriously ill, or die, then that's a whole different ballgame. Anything from poisoned by Hillary, to faking his own death so he can work as Q without interruption.

Travis View of QAnonAnonymous summed up the situation quite well in a tweet made before the announcement.

Source: https://twitter.com/travis_view/status/1311866819121041415

 

[deirdre]

i think they are using it as cover for their yearly cosmetic surgery needs.

 

[Nth]

Wow. Yeah, I straight-up didn't have this on my 2020 bingo card.

Upon reflection though, given the aggressively public campaigning Trump's been employing, it probably shouldn't be too surprising. Here's hoping he (and the First Lady) manage to recover -- much as I'm not a fan of the guy, I think wishing harm to one's political rivals is unconscionable. Also, like Travis View points out, Trump dying of Coronavirus will launch conspiracy theories into overdrive, which we as a species really don't need right now. Coronavirus, protests, and the election have already provided a smorgasbord of material to make CTs out of.

 

[Agent K]

i think they are using it as cover for their yearly cosmetic surgery needs.

Ah, injecting Botox instead of Clorox.

 

[Mendel]

Wow. Yeah, I straight-up didn't have this on my 2020 bingo card.

Some people did "predict" it.

The upside is that it puts an end to Trump rallies as potential spreader events, and may make some of his followers take protection more seriously?

White House advisor Judd Deere released a statement by Trump's physician:

Spoiler: Twitter Source

Source: https://twitter.com/JuddPDeere45/status/1311895390086729728

 

[Agent K]

Wow. Yeah, I straight-up didn't have this on my 2020 bingo card.

Upon reflection though, given the aggressively public campaigning Trump's been employing, it probably shouldn't be too surprising. Here's hoping he (and the First Lady) manage to recover -- much as I'm not a fan of the guy, I think wishing harm to one's political rivals is unconscionable. Also, like Travis View points out, Trump dying of Coronavirus will launch conspiracy theories into overdrive, which we as a species really don't need right now. Coronavirus, protests, and the election have already provided a smorgasbord of material to make CTs out of.

Trump himself reportedly had a conspiracy theory back in March that's resurrected now.

Article:

Trump told aides he's afraid journalists will try to purposefully contract coronavirus to give it to him on Air Force One.

Source: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/03/trump-germaphobe-in-chief-struggles-to-control-the-covid-19-story

 

[Rory]

much as I'm not a fan of the guy, I think wishing harm to one's political rivals is unconscionable.

I'm not sure I want to see him die from it - might not be the best thing in the grand scheme of things - but I wouldn't mind a fairly serious illness that results in some humble pie eating and him publically saying, "You know what? I was wrong: that was awful, and way worse than the flu. Please protect yourselves and listen to the professionals."

 

[deirdre]

this is actually a horrible thing regarding timing. if he does die he probably wont die till like a week or two before the election and then all those early votes will have to be thrown out. what a mess this year has been!

 

[DasKleineTeilchen]

and him publically saying, "You know what? I was wrong: that was awful, and way worse than the flu. Please protect yourselves and listen to the professionals."

who are you kidding? you know this wont happen. ever.

 

[Agent K]

I'm not sure I want to see him die from it - might not be the best thing in the grand scheme of things - but I wouldn't mind a fairly serious illness that results in some humble pie eating and him publicly saying, "You know what? I was wrong: that was awful, and way worse than the flu. Please protect yourselves and listen to the professionals."

Sort of like Boris Johnson, without the "I was wrong" part. Trump did know that it's deadlier than the flu, but he admitted that he downplayed it.

Source: https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1249336590482243585

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/26/poli...-wearing-masks-supreme-court-event/index.html
Sat September 26, 2020

Many of the guests for President Donald Trump's Supreme Court nomination announcement arrived at Saturday's event with masks on, but as the Rose Garden event got underway, masks were virtually non-existent.

Some of the Trump administration's top health officials, as well as other attendees, were seen not wearing masks or social distancing at the highest-profile event at the White House since the Republican National Convention in August.

Seats for guests in the White House Rose Garden at the nomination of Amy Coney Barrett also did not appear spaced apart the recommended six feet, CNN reporters observed, as US deaths from the coronavirus pandemic has surpassed 200,000.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/02/politics/trump-coronavirus-path/index.html

Fri October 2, 2020

Multiple guests at one of the most recent events -- his Rose Garden announcement of a new Supreme Court nominee last Saturday -- said Friday they, too, had tested positive for coronavirus, leading some White House officials to narrow their focus on that episode as a potential place where the outbreak began. Reports of positive tests also began emerging among other White House officials and members of the White House press corps.

 

[Mendel]

this is actually a horrible thing regarding timing. if he does die he probably wont die till like a week or two before the election and then all those early votes will have to be thrown out. what a mess this year has been!

Are you saying this is all part of a conspiracy to disable mail-in voting?

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

(CNN)President Donald Trump will be hospitalized at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center and remain there for several days, the White House said Friday afternoon.

The development came roughly 15 hours after Trump disclosed he had tested positive for the virus.

Rapid progression of symptoms equals high viral load/poorer prognosis.

 

[Akton]

Can we really know how fast the progression of symptoms is if we don't know when he contracted it?

 

[Mick West]

Can we really know how fast the progression of symptoms is if we don't know when he contracted it?

Well, he wasn't hospitalized, or even seeming particularly ill, at the debate. So it's progressed quite a bit since then. He also gets tested pretty much every day, and certainly would have been tested around that time.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

Symptoms started yesterday afternoon.

 

[deirdre]

at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center

hhmmm...thats where Melania went for several days for her alleged kidney procedure, which i also thought was cover for cosmetic surgery.

 

[deirdre]

"President Trump remains in good spirts, has mild symptoms, and has been working throughout the day," White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany said in a statement. "Out of an abundance of caution, and at the recommendation of his physician and medical experts, the President will be working from the presidential offices at Walter Reed for the next few days."

....
On Friday afternoon, the president's physician, Sean Conley, disclosed the president was receiving an experimental antibody treatment. Trump "remains fatigued but in good spirits," Conley wrote in a memo.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/10/02/donald-trump-jr-texas-event/

35 mins ago this tweet says. ?

Source: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1312158400352972800

 

[deirdre]

Rapid progression of symptoms equals high viral load/poorer prognosis.

your quote doesnt say rapid progression. thanks for making me look it up for myself.

(CNN)President Donald Trump arrived Friday evening at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, where the White House says he will remain hospitalized for "the next few days."
The development came roughly 15 hours after Trump disclosed he had tested positive for coronavirus. The White House described the move as precautionary and not the product of an urgent deterioration in Trump's condition.

Trump walked out of the White House residence at 6:16 p.m. ET -- his first public appearance since announcing his diagnosis -- wearing a mask and a suit. He walked on his own, without assistance, and displayed no outward signs of illness.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/02/politics/president-donald-trump-walter-reed-coronavirus/index.html

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

Source: https://youtu.be/-F2eLUjPiFo

Woodruff: Given what we have seen now, the President is about to leave the White House to go to Walter Reed, they say, for several days. You have heard, I think, what we have about the president symptoms. What does this add up to for you?

Dr Jha: This is all, of course, very concerning for both the President and for the country. In terms of the President and his health, we don't have a lot of information. We don't... we do know he received this experimental therapy. But it seems like it is moving pretty quickly. And he was diagnosed last night, and he is heading to the hospital tonight. It concerns me. I don't want to overstate it. I don't have a lot of details... obviously, none of us do... about his clinical condition. But this is a concerning and, I think, worrying. development. It feels like more than just an abundance of caution. But let's Let us pray and hope that, indeed, he is doing okay and that he will turn around quickly.

Woodruff: Worrying because they went ahead and gave him this infusion of this what they call polyclonal antibody cocktail? Worrying because of his age? He's 74? Worrying because we are told he's overweight for his height? What makes you worry?

Dr. Jha: It's a bit of all of those things. He is clearly high risk because of his age his weight. And we don't know much about his comorbid conditions, but also worrying because it feels like he's... his clinical situation has gotten worse since yesterday. A typical course for somebody with this virus is maybe several days of feeling relatively okay before they start getting worse. This does feel like it is moving a little faster than usual, again, not... We don't know a lot here, so I don't want to really overstate what we know and what level of worry. But he is the president of the United States, and we just have to have a heightened level of concern.

Woodruff: I have to ask you this, doctor, how much confidence do you have in the information we are getting from the White House about this?

Dr. Jha: So, this has been a challenge out of this White House. And one of the reasons why it is so important for political leaders to build credibility with the American people is exactly for moments like this. In a moment of crisis, we need to trust what's coming from there, and we haven't always gotten straight information. So I am worried. My hope is that in this moment of crisis the White House does level with the American people, is transparent and shares information.

The man has gone from fatigue to hospitalization in one day. If this were an ordinary patient, this is a very rapid progression. One might hold out hope that this hospitalization indicates an overabundance of caution because this is the president. But what changed from this morning to this afternoon? A worsening of symptoms? Or a change in the way they are thinking about this?

The next step would be intubation. If that occurs, all ambiguity will be gone.

 

[Nth]

I'm not sure I want to see him die from it - might not be the best thing in the grand scheme of things - but I wouldn't mind a fairly serious illness that results in some humble pie eating and him publically saying, "You know what? I was wrong: that was awful, and way worse than the flu. Please protect yourselves and listen to the professionals."

Yeah, for better or for worse, there are a lot of people who hang on Trump's every word these days. If he does get a bad, but recoverable, case and can turn around his rhetoric on this, maybe he'll be able to successfully sway his supporters who aren't taking precautions against spreading the virus.

 

[Nth]

this is actually a horrible thing regarding timing. if he does die he probably wont die till like a week or two before the election and then all those early votes will have to be thrown out. what a mess this year has been!

Would they actually have to be thrown out? If Trump dies before the election, then Mike Pence assumes the presidency until January 20th, 2021. What I'm unclear on, and frankly the situation overall is pretty unprecedented, is if a vote for Trump would just transfer over to Pence, such that if the Trump/Pence ticket wins, Pence technically gets demoted to Vice President and then later sworn in as President on January 20th.

Gah, my head hurts.

Either way, this information is still less than a day old. It's still fuzzy exactly what condition the President is in, and he may well straight-up recover.

Edit: At risk of revealing my partisanship, I really hope VP Biden keeps being smart about avoiding exposure to COVID-19. He seems to be in better physical shape than Trump (less risk of pre-existing conditions?), but he's still quite old and well inside one of the highest-risk age groups. It'd be quite the fitting crescendo this insane year for both major party presidential candidates to die.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

For the MB members who live under a parliamentary system this will seem strange. We vote for an individual, not the party.

Clear: Pence would be sworn in as president.

Murky: Who would become the GOP candidate for president? The constitution is not relevant. Parties are not governmental bodies. There is no succession from Vice President to party candidate for president.

Clear: The GOP can nominate a candidate without the primary system.

Unclear (to me): Isn't it too late to name a legally registered candidate? Hmm.

Untested: Would early votes for Trump be counted as a vote for whoever became the GOP candidate?

 

[NoParty]

Would they actually have to be thrown out? If Trump dies before the election, then Mike Pence assumes the presidency until January 20th, 2021. What I'm unclear on, and frankly the situation overall is pretty unprecedented, is if a vote for Trump would just transfer over to Pence, such that if the Trump/Pence ticket wins, Pence technically gets demoted to Vice President and then later sworn in as President on January 20th.

Gah, my head hurts.

Either way, this information is still less than a day old. It's still fuzzy exactly what condition the President is in, and he may well straight-up recover.

Edit: At risk of revealing my partisanship, I really hope VP Biden keeps being smart about avoiding exposure to COVID-19. He seems to be in better physical shape than Trump (less risk of pre-existing conditions?), but he's still quite old and well inside one of the highest-risk age groups. It'd be quite the fitting crescendo this insane year for both major party presidential candidates to die.

No. No votes would go to Pence.

Also, states would decide, one by one, whether to try to reprint ballots with Pence's or someone else's name...

 

[deirdre]

Yeah, for better or for worse, there are a lot of people who hang on Trump's every word these days. If he does get a bad, but recoverable, case and can turn around his rhetoric on this, maybe he'll be able to successfully sway his supporters who aren't taking precautions against spreading the virus.

and if he sails through it - because he is getting good and early treatment - it could make people less fearful they say very early treatment of these new therapeutics show the best outcomes.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

No. No votes would go to Pence.

Also, states would decide, one by one, whether to try to reprint ballots with Pence's or someone else's name...

Remember that the Electors can vote for anyone, with no reference to the popular vote. So this is untested but not impossible.

And there are two layers. What the constitution says, and state laws. Some states have laws about how their Electors vote.

I can foresee a huge fight in battleground states about this.

 

[Nth]

No. No votes would go to Pence.

Also, states would decide, one by one, whether to try to reprint ballots with Pence's or someone else's name...

Yeah, that makes sense, since in this scenario the vote for President would literally be going to a dead guy. If I'm not mistaken, states administer their own elections per the Constitution, so would what happens conceivably vary from state to state?

 

[deirdre]

Would they actually have to be thrown out?

i would think so. if someone already voted for Trump that doesnt mean they would like his replacement. Trump isnt like regular republicans.
and if someone voted for Biden simply because they *hate* Trump, they might be ok with Pence or someone more regular because tehy dont like the direction the libs are going (ie. far left agenda, riots etc).

it would be a mess.

 

[Nth]

and if he sails through it - because he is getting good and early treatment - it could make people less fearful they say very early treatment of these new therapeutics show the best outcomes.

I would predict that very few people would recognize the trifecta of catching it early, having access to the best physicians in the US, if not the world, and the President receiving the latest and greatest therapeutics as major factors in his survival.

But isn't this basically what happened to Boris Johnson, who ultimately emerged from that experience weakened, humbled, and with the proverbial fear of God in him regarding the virus?

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

Remember... once again, the popular vote for president has no legal bearing. Even Americans have a hard time wrapping their head around that one.

 

[Nth]

i would think so. if someone already voted for Trump that doesnt mean they would like his replacement. Trump isnt like regular republicans.
and if someone voted for Biden simply because they *hate* Trump, they might be ok with Pence or someone more regular because tehy dont like the direction the libs are going (ie. far left agenda, riots etc).

it would be a mess.

Without a figurehead like Trump, I might could see some Republicans even staying home. For whatever reason, the man does inspire loyalty in his base in a way that few other politicians can, and I'm not convinced that whoever the GOP put on the ticket as Trump's replacement could spur the kind of turnout needed to beat a well-known candidate like Biden (even if Biden's numbers take a hit because people no longer feel a need to beat Trump).

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-usa-trump-election-ex-idUSKBN26N343

- What happens if a candidate dies ahead of the election? Both the Democratic National Committee and the Republican National Committee have rules that call for their members to vote on a replacement nominee. However, it is likely too late to replace a candidate in time for the election.


Early voting is underway, with more than 2.2 million votes cast, according to the U.S. Elections Project at the University of Florida. The deadline to change ballots in many states has also passed; mail ballots, which are expected to be widely used due to the coronavirus pandemic, have been sent to voters in two dozen states.

Unless Congress delays the election, voters would still choose between the Republican Trump and Democrat Joe Biden even if one died before Nov. 3.

There's much more.

 

[deirdre]

But isn't this basically what happened to Boris Johnson,

no. Boris Johnson worked too long through it and had to go to hospital because he couldn't breathe at that point and needed to go on oxygen.

Trump walked to the hospital and so far all i've read is a low grade fever and some fatigue, for most cases ive read about that's like 3-7 days away from needing to be hospitalized for oxygen etc.

 

[deirdre]

Without a figurehead like Trump, I might could see some Republicans even staying home. For whatever reason, the man does inspire loyalty in his base in a way that few other politicians can, and I'm not convinced that whoever the GOP put on the ticket as Trump's replacement could spur the kind of turnout needed to beat a well-known candidate like Biden (even if Biden's numbers take a hit because people no longer feel a need to beat Trump).

i think they'd still turn out. the left is going too left, too fast for most people's sensibilities.

 

[Nth]

no. Boris Johnson worked too long through it and had to go to hospital because he couldn't breathe at that point and needed to go on oxygen.

Trump walked to the hospital and so far all i've read is a low grade fever and some fatigue, for most cases ive read about that's like 3-7 days away from needing to be hospitalized for oxygen etc.

Gotcha, thanks. I'm not terribly familiar with Johnson's case outside of (largely) perusing headlines.