Pre 1995 Persistent Contrail Archive

Tea I Look Rum

New Member
The Department of Defense started using "cirrus shields," aka chemtrails, during the Vietnam War to make high altitude reconnaissance and special operations aircraft undetectable by ground observation. The idea that persistent contrails only appeared after 1995, and, therefore, photos of these trails pre-1995 prove they are only water vapor trails from jet aircraft is a fallacy I would expect to find in a forum run by someone without a science or military background.

Additionally, many of the photos posted have captured cirrus fibratus clouds, which are easily mistaken for contrails by the untrained eye, and contain neither contrails nor chemtrails.

What is especially ridiculous is to think the readers of this forum won't realize that an actual contrail made by a jet aircraft traveling 6-7 miles per minute during the 1960s is incapable of producing a very long trail in a photo that took only a fraction of a second to capture.

Also, the southwest, where most movies were filmed, is more arid than locations in the mid-west or east, causing the air above to be cold enough to sustain visible water vapor trails much longer than usual.
 

Mattnik

Moderator
I would like to see the info about these "cirrus shields", please.

It is worth noting that the 1995 date is addressed specifically as it's a claim regularly made by proponents of chemtrails.
 

cloudspotter

Senior Member.
What is especially ridiculous is to think the readers of this forum won't realize that an actual contrail made by a jet aircraft traveling 6-7 miles per minute during the 1960s is incapable of producing a very long trail in a photo that took only a fraction of a second to capture.
You mean you don't believe a plane could leave a trail that long? How long do you think they should last?
 

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
Also, the southwest, where most movies were filmed, is more arid than locations in the mid-west or east, causing the air above to be cold enough to sustain visible water vapor trails much longer than usual.
This is interesting.
Can you explain why you thing aridity at ground level causes the air at cruise altitude to "be cold enough"? Do you mean colder than above non-arid regions.
Also can you explain why cold air would would cause contrails to persist longer?

These questions also relate to the one that cloudspotter asked in the post just above here.
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
The idea that persistent contrails only appeared after 1995, and, therefore, photos of these trails pre-1995 prove they are only water vapor trails from jet aircraft is a fallacy I would expect to find in a forum run by someone without a science or military background.
The Chemtrail Believers are most often the ones insisting that persistent contrails only appears after 1995 (or often a more recent year). Hence this thread.
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
Additionally, many of the photos posted have captured cirrus fibratus clouds, which are easily mistaken for contrails by the untrained eye, and contain neither contrails nor chemtrails.
Chemtrail Beleivers often point at various cloud types and insist that those cloud types are unnatural and that they did not exist before XXXX year. Hence the presence of photos of those cloud types in this thread. No confusion of natural cirrus and contrails needed.

What is especially ridiculous is to think the readers of this forum won't realize that an actual contrail made by a jet aircraft traveling 6-7 miles per minute during the 1960s is incapable of producing a very long trail in a photo that took only a fraction of a second to capture.
So here you tell us that trails wouldn't persist behind a jet during the 1960s long enough to show up in a photograph.

Also, the southwest, where most movies were filmed, is more arid than locations in the mid-west or east, causing the air above to be cold enough to sustain visible water vapor trails much longer than usual.
Now in the very next sentence you tell us that conditions were special in the west such that trails did persist. Seems to be a contradiction.
 

Mumbles

Active Member
A very interesting English scientific paper about contrails dating from 1946. Persistent contrail formation in ice-supersaturated air is also explained.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/media/pdf/c/3/1946_Brewer_condensation_trails.pdf

View attachment 5041 View attachment 5042

Good find, and another useful link for the "only post-war jets make contrails" types. While the page is dated 1946, the images are almost certainly from a few years earlier. The Spitfire appears to be one of the earlier merlin engined Photo Reconaissance versions (maybe a PR.VII?) from pre-1944, and the markings on the Marauder are also suggestive of an earlier era (the RAF ones likely all being scrapped by 1946 anyway). The Marauder is interesting in that I haven't often seen visible wing-tip vortices from aircraft of that era in level flight.
 

Joe

Senior Member
IM not sure how to post a screen shot of this old Twilight Zone from the early sixties @ 50 minutes pans toward the sky looks like persistent contrails ?
 

Landru

Moderator
Staff member
IM not sure how to post a screen shot of this old Twilight Zone from the early sixties @ 50 minutes pans toward the sky looks like persistent contrails ?
Rod Serling's statement, "prove it isn't true," would have carried no ice here. The 'I Dream of Jeanie' thing was funny though.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
THis WWII photo was new to me:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dougsheley/4319045821/sizes/l/


Part of a great photoset:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dougsheley/sets/72157607353942605/with/4312698101/

Also:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dougsheley/4289892356/in/set-72157607353942605/


Interesting contrails here, almost as if the planes were either shot down, or otherwise went into very steep descent. [Edit: not actually contrails there, they are subsequently described as "target markers" or "release markers" - smoke bombs that either show where the bomb hit, or indicated following bomber where to release their bombs]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dougsheley/4291614047/in/set-72157607353942605/
 
Last edited:

Mark Barrington

Active Member
This other image from the same series also shows multiple contrails:



I happen to have a copy of the American People's Encyclopedia from 1956, along with yearbooks from 56-71 and found a few pictures of contrails in there. The reproduction quality isn't great, but if I get a chance I'll scan them in. Since I've had these books in my possession since the early 80s, there's no question of the images being faked.

The A.P.E. had a deal, if you bought the encyclopedia, you got a coffee table to store them in, so I found the coffee table at a garage sale and bought it, books included. The books are pretty musty, but they're interesting to look at.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
P.S. What are guidelines for posting copyrighted material?
Basically you can post it if you think it's Fair Use. If the copyright holder requests, then I'll remove it. I've only had a handful of complains in the last three years.
 

Mark Barrington

Active Member
Basically you can post it if you think it's Fair Use. If the copyright holder requests, then I'll remove it. I've only had a handful of complains in the last three years.
Anything from a magazine or other publication is most likely fair use. I posted a link above from a stock photo agency instead of the image because the stock photo agencies tend to be pretty aggressive about making people pay to use their images. Almost any other source is fairly safe.
 

Buildy

Member
Municipal Stadium, Kansas City, MO. Demolished 1976.
09e305501af469170a1856a8d9d94a0e.jpg

I must say, as both a contrail and baseball geek, I'm enjoying this hunting of images! :)
 

MikeC

Closed Account
you do realize that all of these old images have actually been doctored to insert chemtrails in order to desensitize us don't you??


See also this metabunk thread which starts with that video.

LOOK UP!

;)
 
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