Pre 1995 Persistent Contrail Archive

[hemi]

From the HBO film Bobby Fischer against the World - a teenaged Bobby (so presumably in the late 50s?) boarding a Sabena plane, with a nice contrail overhead.

(Not very clear from the slightly lossy screen-grabs -- anyone with a better version can find the clip at around the 14m mark in the film).

 

[Mick West]

Recent news story about these guys, take the same photo every five years since 1982. The location is Copco Lake, just north of Mt Shasta, in the middle of the big north-south air corridor of the West Coast.

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/the-fi...ideshow/five-year-photo-photo-1343412740.html

The 1982 photo has a persistent contrail in it:

As does the 1997 photo:

 

[Mick West]

Here's some reaction to the "five guys" photo from the chemtrail crowd:

 

[Jay Reynolds]

So interesting that, when confronted by evidence that their claims of recent changes in contrail persistence is bunk, the claim simply adapts and survives unscathed, rather than reassess contradictory information and accept that they were wrong.

 

[Jay Reynolds]

Farnborough (UK) Air Show 1957 featured 90 high altitude bomber flights making an impressive display:
Flight Magazine, September 13, 1957
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1957/1957 - 1341.html

 

[PCWilliams]

So intersting that, when confronted by evidence that their claims of recent changes in contrail persistence is bunk, the claim simply adapts and survives unscathed, rather than reassess contradictory information and accept that they were wrong. Twisted.

At the same time making it worse for themselves. Instead of me making fun of them for not having any real tangible evidence in the 15 years chemtrails have been sprayed (since about 1997), now they have to explain why no tangible evidence has been gathered in 70 years.

 

[Mick West]

The mark of a good conspiracy theory is how well it can adapt to new circumstances.

Alfred Webre has this down - he makes predictions, and then claims, in advance, that there are multiple time-lines, and his prediction will only happen in some of them. So if it does not happen for you, then you were simply in the wrong (or the right) time line.

And speaking of the Farnborough air show, this is from the early 1950s:

http://www.vickersviscount.net/Pages_History/The_Turboprop_World-Beater_VISCOUNT.aspx

 

[Mick West]

Some more Spartacus production photos from 1959. The large battle scenes were filmed near Madrid in Spain, but some outdoor scenes were filmed in Thousand Oaks, near Los Angeles, California.

http://life.time.com/culture/rare-never-seen-spartacus-at-50/?iid=lb-gal-viewagn#1

The following is sometimes presented as a scene from Spartacus (above), however I think it's also a production photo, as this shot does not seem to appear in the film (the scene and setting does - it's just before the famous "I'm Spartacus" bit, but there's no shot like this). It also seems to have been contrast enhanced.

Looking at a poor copy of the film, I was unable to see any contrails in it at all. Perhaps they were removed in later versions.

The actual scene appears to have been shot in-studio, with a stormy painted sky.

Aha, found a contrail in the actual film. During "I'm Spartacus" scene
​

 

[Belfrey]

So intersting that, when confronted by evidence that their claims of recent changes in contrail persistence is bunk, the claim simply adapts and survives unscathed, rather than reassess contradictory information and accept that they were wrong. Twisted.

I ran into this in a Newsvine discussion. A believer challenged me to find "videos or pictures of giant x patterns and checkerboard" patterns from before the 90s. I posted some, thanks in large part to Mick's websites. His response: "I will give you credit on this one. I suspected that chemtrials may have been going on for much longer than the early 1990's, but they may have been less frequent and most people were not paying attention."

 

[Tim TheToolman Coles]

I have not been at this as long as some of you, and most things I find, I then find out you have already found them. LOL.. That is great, but here is my small contribution, Not very clear, as it was scanned. (The text also clearly discusses persistence in the description)


From : Richard Scorer & Harry Wexler A Colour Guide to Clouds Pergamon Press 1963 (#36, Page 44) as seen at this link: http://archive.org/stream/AColourGui...e/n25/mode/2up

 

[Mick West]

I've got that book, it's a handy pocket sized book to have when talking to chemtrail theorists.

 

[Mick West]

1957. The TV show "Have Gun Will Travel", episode "Show of Force". Filmed near Los Angeles, in the same general area as some of the Spartacus filming.

http://iversonmovieranch.blogspot.com/2012/01/cowboys-and-aliens-somethings-going-on.html

 

[Spongebob]

1986 film (I just watched again) persistent contrail - broken too if you look at the trail further back...

 

[Trigger Hippie]

So interesting that, when confronted by evidence that their claims of recent changes in contrail persistence is bunk, the claim simply adapts and survives unscathed, rather than reassess contradictory information and accept that they were wrong.

Here's another example of the chemtrail conspiracy theory adapting to contradictory evidence.

Conspiracy theorists have spent years arguing that persistent contrails were not seen before the mid 90's. Thoroughly debunking that claim does nothing to the conspiracy. It survives by incorporating the new information. Here we see Scott Stevens "weatherman" reconciling the discrepancy by claiming chemtrails have been around since the mid 70's. (Taken from his talk at the Consciousness Beyond Chemtrails conference.)

50:40 min

"And here we have the trails already in the sky. And that fits, because we've got the patents that go back to the early 70's... about 1969 to 1972... most of the patents were formed at that point in time and that allowed or at least provided the intellectual property cover for them to go to work."

Then Scott goes even further. As if to prevent the chemtrail conspiracy from being limited by any time line what so ever, Scott surmises that chemtails could date back 100 years!

4:10 min

"There's some weird stuff going into the sky. What I'm wrestling with is: How far back does this go? Because there are pictures in old books, more than a century old that demonstrates some of these things that I consider anomalies."

 

[Charlie Primero]

I had no idea this was a meme until today when I saw this on a forum...

What I like to do is challenge anyone who is skeptical about this to find me a single piece of footage, be it from the movies or TV, pre 1990 in which you can see these trails in the skies. So far no-one has found one yet. Try it naysayers. I double dare you

I'm trying to set it up so I can receive some kind of prize for winning the challenge.

Bitcoins perhaps.

 

[Mick West]

Then Scott goes even further. As if to prevent the chemtrail conspiracy from being limited by any time line what so ever, Scott surmises that chemtails could date back 100 years!

4:10 min

"There's some weird stuff going into the sky. What I'm wrestling with is: How far back does this go? Because there are pictures in old books, more than a century old that demonstrates some of these things that I consider anomalies."

He actually said that because just a few hours earlier I'd shown him the 1905 book Cloud Studies, and he immediately started noticing patterns in the clouds there too. It was quite astonishing the speed with which he incorporated this new information into his theory - literally seconds. Like he though this showed some kind of evidence of manipulation because of the three "square holes":

 

[Trigger Hippie]

I see. So you admit perpetuating the chemtrail myth.

 

[Mick West]

July 1985, Yellowstone:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/saruchan/3700208972/

 

[SR1419]

technically its the Tetons with the Snake River in front...

But great shot.

 

[GregMc]

I'd shown him the 1905 book Cloud Studies, and he immediately started noticing patterns in the clouds there too. It was quite astonishing the speed with which he incorporated this new information into his theory - literally seconds.

I wonder how he'd deal with old documents like these then?



Here are a few pics I collected to help out a fellow who said Long clouds, mares tails and cirrus didn't exist in the past and any wavy clouds or mackerel sky were evidence of haarp etc:

http://ia700407.us.archive.org/16/items/cu31924002961203/cu31924002961203.pdf
http://www.antiqueprints.com/images/af3/f3158.jpg
http://www.antiqueprints.com/images/af9/f9456.jpg
http://www.antiqueprints.com/images/af9/f9761.jpg


http://www.antiqueprints.com/images/ag3/g3736.jpg


http://www.antiqueprints.com/images/af9/f9455.jpg
http://books.google.com.au/books?id...&resnum=5&ved=0CEUQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://www.antiqueprints.com/images/ag3/g3638.jpg
http://www.antiqueprints.com/images/ag3/g3641.jpg








http://prints-4-u.com/store/images/A1401875/A1401875169.jpg
http://prints-4-u.com/store/images/A1401875/A1401875167.jpg


http://www.prints-4-u.com/store/image2/P1560870/P1560870084.jpg balloon


http://prints-4-u.com/store/images/A1401875/A1401875147.jpg


http://prints-4-u.com/store/images/A1401875/A1401875146.jpg
http://prints-4-u.com/store/images/N1360874/N1360874205.jpg


http://www.rmets.org/cloudbank/detail.php?ID=924


http://astrobob.areavoices.com/astrobob/images/thumbnail/Meteorsforblog.jpg
http://willschrimshaw.net/images/FLI/stormcloud2.jpg
http://willschrimshaw.net/images/FLI/stormcloud1.jpg
http://longstreet.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83542d51e69e20120a7d5b498970b-500wi
http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/81...733724BAD9A53724B4B771468BD06EC5AB46E1664D235
http://www.askart.com/AskART/photos/LEL20071201_4614/423.jpg
http://images.rmets.org/cloudbank/rmets070511185620.jpg
http://thewildwood.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/llbean-weather-3.jpg?w=500&h=409


http://www.ssplprints.com/lowres/43/main/50/129400.jpg
http://smcoulman.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/dt1401.jpg
http://www.windows2universe.org/art_and_music/cloud_art/images/4_monet_A.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_2Z7VYcC8u...s400/claude_Monet_Red_Boats_at_Argenteuil.jpg
http://kkyriakopoulou.files.wordpre...-magyar-nemzeti-galeria-budapest-hungary1.jpg

 

[Mick West]

1980:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81918828@N00/2351533859/

1985:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/radar666/3300927046/

1981:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/touchingthelight/1824826924/

1986:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vitalsparks/6672585645/

1988:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/57372488@N07/6038565124/

1986:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vitalsparks/6678442045/

 

[SR1419]

Since we are adding pictures today...

I have a soft spot for this one- not only because it has multiple contrails, shadows and a sundog...but it is the first Pre-1990 picture I found when challenged to do so many yrs ago...I have oft used it as evidence. Its been called fake, doctored, the photographer's background called into question etc...but in the end its just a great picture of persistent, spreading contrails from 1983:

http://www.1000plus.com/Imagic/8301sund.htm

"Parhelic Arc, Sun Dog, and Contrail Shadows" - chaotic sky, Lake Norman, NC - January, 1983

Canonet G3-QL, Ektachrome 200

 

[Mick West]

June 17th 1985:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobmendo/19989783/

1980:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tomvu/2581439713/

 

[Mick West]

China 1989, this is a good one because it's in China (supposedly no "chemtrails"), and the date can't be disputed as the building is under construction:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/loupiote/18426118/

Aug 23rd, 1980. Just a fragment, but clearly persistent, drooping pendules.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mcwidi_2/3593191977/

1970:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mofotolab/52144900/in/photostream/

 

[PCWilliams]

From : Richard Scorer & Harry Wexler A Colour Guide to Clouds Pergamon Press 1963 (#36, Page 44) as seen at this link: http://archive.org/stream/AColourGui...e/n25/mode/2up

Very cool. I just downloaded it!!!

 

[Charlie Primero]

I saw this mentioned in a discussion where people claimed that contrails had been added to old films.

I did not expect this.

Chemtrail promoters moved the goalposts on me. A challenge was issued to find pre-1990 chemtrail footage. I accepted.

I was then told that the evidence could only come from VHS tapes of old movies because The Powers That Be are dumping old movies onto download sites with chemtrails added with Photoshop. I'm a Conspiracy Theorist, but that exceeded my tolerance for silliness.

I was then told that old photographs were not evidence because they sometimes contain contrails. When I asked how one tells the difference between chemtrails and contrails in old photographs, I was told "The same way you do when they are above your head. If you don't understand the question you won't recognize the answer."

I don't understand what that means. I guess this is a waste of time.

 

[Danny55]

Around 4 min 55 secs, are these persistent contrails in the 1956 film Around the world in 80 days?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhf1veD9QUg

 

[Unregistered]

Some obvious persistent contrails can be seen during the scene on the dam in the 1978 movie ''The Boys From Brazil''. For more movie contrails see also;
''Strategic Air Command'' 1955.
''The Misfits'' 1961.
''Cheyenne Autumn'' 1964.
''Rooster Cogburn'' 1975.
''Death Race 2000'' 1975.

 

[Spongebob]

Superman IV: The Quest for Peace 1987:



From his speech at the end of the film...

(a very shit film btw)

 

[cloudspotter]

Here's some reaction to the "five guys" photo from the chemtrail crowd:

Definition of irony:

Yesterday Antinazi Aristotle on facebook claimed never to have seen sun dogs before 2001. Aristotle described sun dogs in Meteorology Book III in 350 BC.

 

[Danny55]

Well, now that the chemtrail believers say that spraying was going on as far back as 1982, why did none of them see it before 1998-2000??

All they had to do was..... "Look up!"

 

[Spongebob]

Well, now that the chemtrail believers say that spraying was going on as far back as 1982, why did none of them see it before 1998-2000??

All they had to do was..... "Look up!"

I was just going to make that exact comment, honest!

 

[Unregistered]

Hi, just found this forum and have seen chemtrails in episode of old tv show, "Rat Patrol" on February 20, 1967 on youtube. Here`s the link, -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3URrYnZS_Tw

Joe

 

[Unregistered]

Sorry, forgot to leave the counter numbers on this video, from about 21:55 to about 23:07.Thanks

Joe

 

[Mick West]

Sorry, forgot to leave the counter numbers on this video, from about 21:55 to about 23:07.Thanks

Joe

Thanks Joe. I'd just skimmed it and added those two images to your post - there's quite a few but that time range has the best shots

I stitched together a couple to get this panorama:

 

[Unregistered]

Hey, there must have been lots of spraying going on over Hollywood sets, then, as now. Thanks

 

[Mick West]

I suspect that was filmed in the Santa Monica Mountains, like "Have Gun Will Travel" and possibly Spartacus

 

[Danny55]

"I was just going to make that exact comment, honest! "

"Great minds" or "Fools" ?

Shall we have a vote??

 

[TWCobra]

Contrails visible in the movie "Patton". Don't have the clip but the scene is the conversation between Patton and Bradley just after the "tank traffic cop" scene. "Patton" was shot circa 1969.

 

[GregMc]

The contrails mentioned by TW are clearly visible in the various Patton movie trailers such as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-0dTpzNzwo at 2:38