Latoya Ammons - A Real Life Demonic Possession?

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Bruno D.

Senior Member.
Geez, this story went from mildly amusing to a heartbreaking very quickly. From the report...

The cop and priest should be ashamed of themselves for perpetuating this nonsense.

They are back with their mother, they moved to other house and anything else ever happened again, to them or to the new tenants.

The mother has agreed to stop talking about demons and possessions with her children and promised to send then to school everyday (it wasn't uncommon for them to loose one day or another.

It looks like a happy ending.

Skeptics will say that she learned the lesson by almost loosing her kids while believers will say that the house was haunted or that the exorcism worked.

I say that ghosts and possession are such an impossible scenario that I would have to experience it myself in order to have an opinion. I'm only glad that the family seems to be doing ok.
 
J

Joe

Guest
Are you saying you'd believe anything you hear unless someone PROVES otherwise? Give me an example of something that would be too far out for even Joe to believe. :rolleyes:
You voted for Romney last election :)
 

Melbury's Brick

Senior Member.
Slid up the wall with his back against it? Or walked Jacko "moonwalk" style, feet on the surface? One of these would be much easier to misinterpret than the other. Sounds very "Exorcist" to me. They probably only stopped short of saying he raced downstairs upside down crab style because it's a bungalow!
 

Melbury's Brick

Senior Member.
Pics, or it didn't happen.

Indeed. Where's the CCTV? Where's video of cops chasing a demon through the woods that we're not being shown?

Of course if someone did take on the appearance of Gollum and suddenly develop the ability to walk up walls, perform 360 degree headspins, and speak in the voice of an angry Pekingese, it would not necessarily be proof of demonic possession!
 

Melbury's Brick

Senior Member.
Pics, or it didn't happen.

Indeed. Where's the CCTV? Where's video of cops chasing a demon through the woods that we're not being shown?

Of course if someone did take on the appearance of Gollum and suddenly develop the ability to walk up walls, perform 360 degree headspins, and speak in the voice of an angry Pekingese, it would not necessarily be proof of demonic possession!
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Slid up the wall with his back against it? Or walked Jacko "moonwalk" style, feet on the surface? One of these would be much easier to misinterpret than the other. Sounds very "Exorcist" to me. They probably only stopped short of saying he raced downstairs upside down crab style because it's a bungalow!
if he was moonwalking up the wall, I think even the doctors would have agreed to let the demon stay awhile and make a few bucks.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
if he was moonwalking up the wall, I think even the doctors would have agreed to let the demon stay awhile and make a few bucks.

I suspect it is a story grown in the telling. Little kids learning to to do backflips and other parkour moves is not uncommon. And those move might seem unusually difficult to someone who is not aware that kids do such things.



 

Alhazred The Sane

Senior Member.
The Daily Mail. Right. It gets taken seriously in the UK about as often as the National Enquirer. Seriously, the story is from the US so how is the Mail going to be the font of all knowledge on this subject? It's a sensationalist rag, but I'm pleased to see that they've made space for this story, which means that the usual 'dem immigrants are taking your jobs/ruining the country/eating our children' stories have less space.
 

Alhazred The Sane

Senior Member.
I get your point . . . however, I have two interesting first hand testimonies from separate sources regarding demonic activity and I have a hard time dismissing them . . . and yes I have no photographic evidence . . .
Demonic activity. Probably hard to dismiss because those testifying have come to believe that demonic activity is the only explanation, and thus there's no way for them to describe the events that isn't shaped by that conviction.

I'll give some first hand testimony of an experience. A long time ago, in a city far, far away (New York), I got heavily into Crowley and the Ordo Templis Orientis. Working with his Magick: Theory and Practice, I attempted a ritual. The preparation involved a period of fasting, and not sleeping. It all went pear-shaped, and I awoke to find myself in my apartment amidst considerable havoc.

My instinct was to think that I'd somehow invoked something otherly, and it was responsible for the damage around me. I knew Crowley had a penchant for laying traps in his rites for those not properly trained. For some years afterwards I suffered from a particular kind of night terror: as I was falling asleep, but while still conscious, I would become paralyzed and then feel like I was plummeting downwards. This would generally be accompanied by aural hallucinations, the sound of something bellowing in a language that couldn't be human. Sometimes visual hallucinations, if my eyes were open. I thought that maybe the door I'd opened in the rite hadn't properly closed, and that I was almost within the reach of a 'demon'.

It was, of course, bollocks. The chaos I'd awoken to had been made by me. The first violent seizure, in a run of a decade of intermittent violent seizures, but the only one where nobody was around. I lived with that worry of demonic possession for a few years, until an enlightened soul from New Zealand (the first person I'd spoken to about the sleep paralysis) correctly identified it as a form of narcolepsy. I've had scans, etc., since. My brain is wired wrong, or maybe just differently. If I don't take care of myself physically, then it goes a bit haywire, and I'll have a seizure. The narcolepsy is haphazard, there's no way of predicting it, and there's no way of preventing. I have a bunch of other sleep related issues, the main one being insomnia, but it makes life difficult for the wife - I convulse when I sleep, and my limbs do not lie still.

My point being, an explanation of 'demonic' interference seemed rational enough, at the time. But it's just biology. I'm weird, but so are lots of other people. Enough for the science to have names for my various weirdnesses.
 
J

Joe

Guest
The Daily Mail. Right. It gets taken seriously in the UK about as often as the National Enquirer. Seriously, the story is from the US so how is the Mail going to be the font of all knowledge on this subject? It's a sensationalist rag, but I'm pleased to see that they've made space for this story, which means that the usual 'dem immigrants are taking your jobs/ruining the country/eating our children' stories have less space.
Well it is a lot like the Enquirer but lately they been printing a lot of stories that our Lame stream media will ignore
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I have a bunch of other sleep related issues, the main one being insomnia, but it makes life difficult for the wife - I convulse when I sleep, and my limbs do not lie still.

Me too. I also sometimes have weird hallucinations of giant spiders or monsters coming towards me when going to sleep. Technically during Hypnagogia, a mental state which is probably responsible for the majority of ghost and alien abduction stories out there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/04/o...things-hearing-things-many-of-us-do.html?_r=0
It's totally understandable that some people would be convinced that these are real things.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Demonic activity. Probably hard to dismiss because those testifying have come to believe that demonic activity is the only explanation, and thus there's no way for them to describe the events that isn't shaped by that conviction.

I'll give some first hand testimony of an experience. A long time ago, in a city far, far away (New York), I got heavily into Crowley and the Ordo Templis Orientis. Working with his Magick: Theory and Practice, I attempted a ritual. The preparation involved a period of fasting, and not sleeping. It all went pear-shaped, and I awoke to find myself in my apartment amidst considerable havoc.

My instinct was to think that I'd somehow invoked something otherly, and it was responsible for the damage around me. I knew Crowley had a penchant for laying traps in his rites for those not properly trained. For some years afterwards I suffered from a particular kind of night terror: as I was falling asleep, but while still conscious, I would become paralyzed and then feel like I was plummeting downwards. This would generally be accompanied by aural hallucinations, the sound of something bellowing in a language that couldn't be human. Sometimes visual hallucinations, if my eyes were open. I thought that maybe the door I'd opened in the rite hadn't properly closed, and that I was almost within the reach of a 'demon'.

It was, of course, bollocks. The chaos I'd awoken to had been made by me. The first violent seizure, in a run of a decade of intermittent violent seizures, but the only one where nobody was around. I lived with that worry of demonic possession for a few years, until an enlightened soul from New Zealand (the first person I'd spoken to about the sleep paralysis) correctly identified it as a form of narcolepsy. I've had scans, etc., since. My brain is wired wrong, or maybe just differently. If I don't take care of myself physically, then it goes a bit haywire, and I'll have a seizure. The narcolepsy is haphazard, there's no way of predicting it, and there's no way of preventing. I have a bunch of other sleep related issues, the main one being insomnia, but it makes life difficult for the wife - I convulse when I sleep, and my limbs do not lie still.

My point being, an explanation of 'demonic' interference seemed rational enough, at the time. But it's just biology. I'm weird, but so are lots of other people. Enough for the science to have names for my various weirdnesses.
Thanks for your testimony . . . I don't doubt that you have an organic explanation for your experiences . . . I am referring to poltergeist type activity observed by multiple individuals in one's residence . . .

1) Stereo equipment turning on in the middle of the night without explanation . . .

2) Broken music box which had never played nor moved in months . . . playing spontaneously in the middle of the day . . .

3) Replaceable Razor blades disappearing after one use . . . finding the razor empty and never finding dozens of razor blades which had to go somewhere . . .

4) Detergent powder (from the largest box you can purchase) found in a perfect pyramid in the middle of the basement floor . . . twice . . .

5) Wall mirrors thrown from the wall on multiple occasion . . .

6) Many other minor pranks too numerous to catalogue . . .

7) Upon complaint to the housing managers . . . was told not to worry . . . these events were reported for that address by previous occupants . . .
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Thanks for your testimony . . . I don't doubt that you have an organic explanation for your experiences . . . I am referring to poltergeist type activity observed by multiple individuals in one's residence . . .

1) Stereo equipment turning on in the middle of the night without explanation . . .

2) Broken music box which had never played nor moved in months . . . playing spontaneously in the middle of the day . . .

3) Replaceable Razor blades disappearing after one use . . . finding the razor empty and never finding dozens of razor blades which had to go somewhere . . .

4) Detergent powder (from the largest box you can purchase) found in a perfect pyramid in the middle of the basement floor . . . twice . . .

5) Wall mirrors thrown from the wall on multiple occasion . . .

6) Many other minor pranks too numerous to catalogue . . .

7) Upon complaint to the housing managers was told not to worry . . . these events were reported for that address by previous occupants . . .

Kids.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Only child in home was a toddler . . . wife was home all day, every day in the middle of Alaskan winter . . . wife didn't socialize . . . no one had access to the residence except . . . wife, husband and very young son . . .
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Only child in home was a toddler . . . wife was home all day, every day in the middle of Alaskan winter . . .

Did I miss the link? Where was this?

It was clearly either demons, a prankster, or the person did it themselves.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Did I miss the link? Where was this?

It was clearly either demons, a prankster, or the person did it themselves.
This was from one of my most trusted employees who I worked with for over 8 years . . . (his experience was in base housing) he only told me about it after we both left Alaska . . .
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Only child in home was a toddler . . . wife was home all day, every day in the middle of Alaskan winter . . . wife didn't socialize . . . no one had access to the residence except . . . wife, husband and very young son . . .
hmm home all day with a toddler. middle of Alaskan winter. no socialization. 3 pretty big red flags right there. ** and moving is a red flag too.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
This was from one of my most trusted employees who I worked with for over 8 years . . . (his experience was in base housing) he only told me about it after we both left Alaska . . .

Paraphrasing Thomas Paine slightly:

“Is it more probable that nature should go out of her course, or that a person should tell a lie, be mistaken, or be fooled? We have never seen, in our time, nature go out of her course. But we have good reason to believe that billions of lies have been told in the same time, that billions of people have been mistaken or fooled. It is therefore at least billions to one that the reporter of a miracle has described nothing more than a falsehood or an illusion”

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/153829-is-it-more-probable-that-nature-should-go-out-of
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Paraphrasing Thomas Paine slightly:

“Is it more probable that nature should go out of her course, or that a person should tell a lie, be mistaken, or be fooled? We have never seen, in our time, nature go out of her course. But we have good reason to believe that billions of lies have been told in the same time, that billions of people have been mistaken or fooled. It is therefore at least billions to one that the reporter of a miracle has described nothing more than a falsehood or an illusion”

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/153829-is-it-more-probable-that-nature-should-go-out-of
Sure one could accept the story was illusion or lie . . . that is always an explanation . . . my impression was I trusted my life to this individual and vice versa on occasions so his testimony was important to me and his reliability was unquestioned on professional issues . . . I have to put this in the category as exceptional because of my history with him . . .
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
hmm home all day with a toddler. middle of Alaskan winter. no socialization. 3 pretty big red flags right there. ** and moving is a red flag too.
Moving was not an option . . . military orders . . .
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Moving was not an option . . . military orders . . .
I don't think its a question of believing your friend, I'm sure he was telling you the truth as he understood it. its more a question of understanding unhappy women.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
I don't think its a question of believing your friend, I'm sure he was telling you the truth as he understood it. its more a question of understanding unhappy women.
Hmmm. . . unlikely but plausible . . . don't think her personality was capable of such deceit . . .
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Sure one could accept the story was illusion or lie . . . that is always an explanation . . . my impression was I trusted my life to this individual and vice versa on occasions so his testimony was important to me and his reliability was unquestioned on professional issues . . . I have to put this in the category as exceptional because of my history with him . . .

Paine's point still stands though.

If you were to put money on it, say some scientists were coming tomorrow and could figure out if it was actually supernatural, then what % sure are you that he witnessed something supernatural?

Consider then: What if he told you he had a house on the moon that he spent weekends at? What % there?

Is there a difference in your % certainty between:

A) Him weekending on a house on the moon
B) Ghosts making pyramids of detergent in his basement

Explain the difference.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Paine's point still stands though.

If you were to put money on it, say some scientists were coming tomorrow and could figure out if it was actually supernatural, then what % sure are you that he witnessed something supernatural?

Consider then: What if he told you he had a house on the moon that he spent weekends at? What % there?

Is there a difference in your % certainty between:

A) Him weekending on a house on the moon
B) Ghosts making pyramids of detergent in his basement

Explain the difference.
Well . . I don't think paranormal activity is necessarily supernatural . . .

A) because of my knowledge and trust of this man and his observational skills, honesty, reliability, and logical capabilities, intelligence, etc . . . if he told me he weekend on the moon I would think he was imbalanced, mistaken or deceived with a 0% chance of it being true except in his perceptions . . . but if you ask me he thought he was telling the truth . . . I would give him 99% . . .

B) The detergent . . . if he said it happened . . . which he did . . . I give him a 99% chance he thinks it happened; and in my mind at least a 50% chance it or something like it occurred . . .

The difference between 0 and 50% is simply my personal feelings about the physical possibilities of the plausibility of the two realities . . .
 

Svartbjørn

Senior Member.
Well . . . I would rather be cute than ugly . . . LoL!!!;)

I kinda concur with deirdre here George.. I knew a lot of military wives that were very unhappy.. not because of anything their husband did or didnt do but because of the toll it takes on a wife. I served with a guy, very much like you described.. one that I trusted my life with and never doubted a word that passed his lips.. but odd things happened in his home too. His wife, was much like what you described of your friend's.. quiet, didnt cause a ruckus, very calm and a lot of fun to be around.. but there were two separate occasions where I walked in to a house in absolute utter disarray, and she was a meticulous house keeper.

In both these cases, she'd suffered from Cabin Fever (literally and figuratively.. shed become sick while Drew was deployed, Id stop in to check on her and the baby) as well as having a young child at home. She snapped, destroyed her well kept house and had no memory of it. I took her to the chaplain after we cleaned the house up, and we spoke to one of the docs at the medical center at Cherry Point (where we were stationed) and thats when she let it all out. Your friend's wife may very well have been suffering from the same thing. Pent up anger and frustration that she may not have even realized she was dealing with, and it all came to a head during those long, cold winter Alaskan winters.

Military wives have it rough, much more rough than we do as Marines, Sailors, Airmen and Soldiers.. and its something that tends to get overlooked, not intentionally, but it happens. While we serve, our focus is on the mission, the "guy" to our left or right, and to our jobs. People die if we arent technically and tactically proficient. The military wife has a different set of stressors to deal with.. we get shot at, she sees the news on CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS.. she doesnt know if we're alive or dead.. she deals with the bills, the car issues, babysitting, the day to day lives of her kids as well as her own, all while her husband is off doing what his country asks of him. Im surprised more wives dont snap.

Dont misunderstand.. Im not excluding paranormal activity.. there's a lot we still dont know about how the Universe works, but given the criteria you laid out, the descriptions you gave us of the situation, and the location as well as the situation, Occam's Razor would suggest a much more non-ethereal solution.
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Well . . I don't think paranormal activity is necessarily supernatural . . .

A) because of my knowledge and trust of this man and his observational skills, honesty, reliability, and logical capabilities, intelligence, etc . . . if he told me he weekend on the moon I would think he was imbalanced, mistaken or deceived with a 0% chance of it being true except in his perceptions . . . but if you ask me he thought he was telling the truth . . . I would give him 99% . . .

B) The detergent . . . if he said it happened . . . which he did . . . I give him a 99% chance he thinks it happened; and in my mind at least a 50% chance it or something like it occurred . . .

The difference between 0 and 50% is simply my personal feelings about the physical possibilities of the plausibility of the two realities . . .

Okay, so it's reasonably likely that he observed things happening. Reasonably likely that someone piled the detergent in his basement. So if it was down to:

A) His wife or other human
B) A non-human entity

What percentages there?
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
I kinda concur with deirdre here George.. I knew a lot of military wives that were very unhappy.. not because of anything their husband did or didnt do but because of the toll it takes on a wife. I served with a guy, very much like you described.. one that I trusted my life with and never doubted a word that passed his lips.. but odd things happened in his home too. His wife, was much like what you described of your friend's.. quiet, didnt cause a ruckus, very calm and a lot of fun to be around.. but there were two separate occasions where I walked in to a house in absolute utter disarray, and she was a meticulous house keeper.

In both these cases, she'd suffered from Cabin Fever (literally and figuratively.. shed become sick while Drew was deployed, Id stop in to check on her and the baby) as well as having a young child at home. She snapped, destroyed her well kept house and had no memory of it. I took her to the chaplain after we cleaned the house up, and we spoke to one of the docs at the medical center at Cherry Point (where we were stationed) and thats when she let it all out. Your friend's wife may very well have been suffering from the same thing. Pent up anger and frustration that she may not have even realized she was dealing with, and it all came to a head during those long, cold winter Alaskan winters.

Military wives have it rough, much more rough than we do as Marines, Sailors, Airmen and Soldiers.. and its something that tends to get overlooked, not intentionally, but it happens. While we serve, our focus is on the mission, the "guy" to our left or right, and to our jobs. People die if we arent technically and tactically proficient. The military wife has a different set of stressors to deal with.. we get shot at, she sees the news on CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS.. she doesnt know if we're alive or dead.. she deals with the bills, the car issues, babysitting, the day to day lives of her kids as well as her own, all while her husband is off doing what his country asks of him. Im surprised more wives dont snap.

Dont misunderstand.. Im not excluding paranormal activity.. there's a lot we still dont know about how the Universe works, but given the criteria you laid out, the descriptions you gave us of the situation, and the location as well as the situation, Occam's Razor would suggest a much more non-ethereal solution.
Not saying your observations are not possible . . . but as I related earlier the housing authority confirmed with my employee (NCO) their experiences in that housing unit were not unique to them . . .
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Okay, so it's reasonably likely that he observed things happening. Reasonably likely that someone piled the detergent in his basement. So if it was down to:

A) His wife or other human
B) A non-human entity

What percentages there?
note: toddlers REally like to pour things.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Okay, so it's reasonably likely that he observed things happening. Reasonably likely that someone piled the detergent in his basement. So if it was down to:

A) His wife or other human
B) A non-human entity

What percentages there?
You are sure making it hard on me . . . A. I eliminate his wife because housing personnel confirmed to him the experiences were not unique to him . . .
B. Because the occurrence happened over several years . . . humans (some kids wouldn't have the endurance or interest to pull it off) and I eliminate any other normal personnel because of the normal turnover of military personnel . . . it would have to have been non-military adult humans if human . . . so maybe there is a low possibly . . . a unnatural human ability or non-human . . .
 

Svartbjørn

Senior Member.
Not saying your observations are not possible . . . but as I related earlier the housing authority confirmed with my employee (NCO) their experiences in that housing unit were not unique to them . . .
Its all good George, I understand where you're coming from
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
You are sure making it hard on me . . . A. I eliminate his wife because housing personnel confirmed to him the experiences were not unique to him . . .
B. Because the occurrence happened over several years . . . humans (some kids wouldn't have the endurance or interest to pull it off)
; ( why, whats wrong with their kid? you mean the kid wouldn't have the attention span over several years to fake a ghost? and if so, what makes you think the kid was trying to fake a ghost?
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
; ( why, whats wrong with their kid? you mean the kid wouldn't have the attention span over several years to fake a ghost? and if so, what makes you think the kid was trying to fake a ghost?
Then what was he doing?
 
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