Jet Pilots Fear "Chemtrail" Attacks

I see this as an attempt to demonize chemtrail activists. First they ridicule us, label us "conspiracy theorists", try to portray us as mentally unstable, now they are suggesting we could turn violent? Based on what? They are the ones attacking us! We "fight" them by presenting the evidence, by raising awareness. We defeat them by waking people up to the corruption, by infiltrating consciousness with truth until we outgrow our dependence on this system that enslaves us! We don't need to harm anyone to accomplish our goal. We only need to make those complicit in these crimes understand how THEY are harming themselves and their loved ones already!


This is such a silly article. Many inaccuracies. No mention of the fact that GEOENGINEERS, whose experiments are receiving generous funding from eugenicist donors like Bill Gates (Mr. reduce the 3rd world population with vaccines, Mr. GMO, Mr. covert vaccines and sterilants), are "proposing" doing exactly what we anti-chemtrails/geoenineering activists have been saying has been happening for years. They are spraying AEROSOLS with the stated intended goal of deflecting sunlight (could covert geoengineering have anything to do with the estimated 22% global dimming we've seen in recent decades??) to reduce global warming or manmade climate change or whatever they have decided they're calling it now.


Funny thing is, globalist (New World Order) think-tank, Club of Rome (of which Al Gore is apparently a member....hmmm...) wrote in their First Global Revolution "The common enemy of humanity is man.

So they say that manmade climate change is a fact and causing catastrophe and that any scientist who disagrees doesn't count because the science is settled. Then geoengineers (ie, people who think it is their job to play God based on disputed "science") start messing around with nature COVERTLY, causing ACTUAL manmade climate change (which they will, of course, use to further justify their deception in the future), then after years of screwing the planet up royally, destroying ecosystems, contaminating the soil and water and damaging the health of all life, they start to reveal, in increments, what they have been up to, heralding themselves as saviours. It's happening right now before our eyes! LOOK UP!

BBC ADMIT TO AEROSOL SPRAYING/CHEMTRAILS GEOENGINEERING: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F3XFuk4WUo

What In The World Are "They" Spraying?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf0khstYDLA


*WHY* In The World Are "They" Spraying?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEfJO0-cTis


Award-Winning Meteorologist Scott Stevens Speaks Out About Chemtrails/Geoengineering: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9IEoEroPMU
(Scott Steven's website: weatherwars.info)


http://www.facebook.com/pages/Stop-Geoengineering/129758890419655
stopgeoengineering.com
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
see this as an attempt to demonize chemtrail activists. First they ridicule us, label us "conspiracy theorists", try to portray us as mentally unstable, now they are suggesting we could turn violent? Based on what? They are the ones attacking us! We "fight" them by presenting the evidence, by raising awareness. We defeat them by waking people up to the corruption, by infiltrating consciousness with truth until we outgrow our dependence on this system that enslaves us! We don't need to harm anyone to accomplish our goal. We only need to make those complicit in these crimes understand how THEY are harming themselves and their loved ones already!


This is such a silly article. Many inaccuracies. No mention of the fact that GEOENGINEERS, whose experiments are receiving generous funding from eugenicist donors like Bill Gates (Mr. reduce the 3rd world population with vaccines, Mr. GMO, Mr. covert vaccines and sterilants), are "proposing" doing exactly what we anti-chemtrails/geoenineering activists have been saying has been happening for years. They are spraying AEROSOLS with the stated intended goal of deflecting sunlight (could covert geoengineering have anything to do with the estimated 22% global dimming we've seen in recent decades??) to reduce global warming or manmade climate change or whatever they have decided they're calling it now.


Funny thing is, globalist (New World Order) think-tank, Club of Rome (of which Al Gore is apparently a member....hmmm...) wrote in their First Global Revolution "The common enemy of humanity is man.

So they say that manmade climate change is a fact and causing catastrophe and that any scientist who disagrees doesn't count because the science is settled. Then geoengineers (ie, people who think it is their job to play God based on disputed "science") start messing around with nature COVERTLY, causing ACTUAL manmade climate change (which they will, of course, use to further justify their deception in the future), then after years of screwing the planet up royally, destroying ecosystems, contaminating the soil and water and damaging the health of all life, they start to reveal, in increments, what they have been up to, heralding themselves as saviours. It's happening right now before our eyes! LOOK UP!

Well, you know that quote is a misleading truncation of the original:



And if you read the whole book, they quite clearly say that manmade climate change is real, and NOT an invented threat. All they are doing is putting focus on climate change instead of wars. Is that a bad thing? Would you prefer to have war, or address the very real problems with the environment?
 
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gisellewilding

New Member
I can be demonized all you like as it will not change me and I am quite used to it. I have personally been the victim of the most terrible betrayal of those in "high places" and I will fight this to the death.

I know the various government are not really interested in protecting the environment. My own father invented an amazing way to clean up safely a shocking pollutant, PCBs and received much publicity but it went no where and the chemical remains in huge dumps.

The reasons for chemtrails and blocking the sun are not all known to us and the blocking of vital rays is far more serious than blocking vitamin production.The whole ecosystem will be affected from algae; food production; animal growth and behaviour including bees (Einstein said we have a few years left after the bees go and they are sick) to affects on out bodies from killing bad bacteria to melatonin production.

There is NO question the level of heavy metals is increased in rain waters and this will have a horrific affect on the soil and possibly our health.

As I have experience lie after lie in my life and constant betrayal I will NOT believe what a pilot says as I know the power of money. These pilots are probably themselves told lies and sign documents so they cannot disclose the truth. Never ever would I consider violence against them; there are other far higher up on my personal list I would like to see punished before them and I have received many offers of violent reprisals and never ever would I agree to it;karma will get you if you do.Go about things in the correct legal way and keep spreading knowledge and ignore any mocking; I have had to for many years and I am yet to be shown to be wrong in any of my claims. Do not be silent.
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
Giselle, no-one is demonising you. I am a pilot. I haven't signed anything. The only lies I have been told are industrial... but that's another story. Can I ask you how you believe the delivery of chemtrails works? Can you also see from the screenshots I have posted that there is a legitimate concern about violence from some people?
 

Billzilla

Senior Member.
I can be demonized all you like as it will not change me and I am quite used to it.

I never have, though I kept asking for any real evidence from you over and over and over again on that daft Youtube thread, yet all you managed to do was to keep telling everyone how smart you were.



....s and I am yet to be shown to be wrong in any of my claims.

You very definitely have been shown very wrong many times in that Youtube thread. It's clear that you have very little idea as to scientific method and the physics of contrails and climate/weather/meteorology.
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
I never have, though I kept asking for any real evidence from you over and over and over again on that daft Youtube thread, yet all you managed to do was to keep telling everyone how smart you were.





You very definitely have been shown very wrong many times in that Youtube thread. It's clear that you have very little idea as to scientific method and the physics of contrails and climate/weather/meteorology.

...and no real interest in learning any of the information that would allay your fears it seems. The answers to your questions are here,on this very website and it's partner contrailscience.com.

You could put your chemtrail related fears to bed in one hour if you could just approach this with an open mind.
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
Matt from Australians against Chemtrails posted this beauty in the Truth News Radio Australia FB page yesterday. The fact checking skills of this man need a serious rejigging.

https://www.facebook.com/truth.news?ref=ts&fref=ts


AAC.PNG

Apart from the fantasy of my alleged past.. (the USAF?!?!?) his straightfaced declaration that Alumina in the fuel is mixed in with bio-diesel (to make it burn better) ranks as one of the all-time most ignorant theories ever put forward.
 

Billzilla

Senior Member.
Matt from Australians against Chemtrails posted this beauty in the Truth News Radio Australia FB page yesterday. The fact checking skills of this man need a serious rejigging.

https://www.facebook.com/truth.news?ref=ts&fref=ts


AAC.PNG

Apart from the fantasy of my alleged past.. (the USAF?!?!?) his straightfaced declaration that Alumina in the fuel is mixed in with bio-diesel (to make it burn better) ranks as one of the all-time most ignorant theories ever put forward.

If he'd only written 'Quantas' for the trifecta. :)
 
there is no need to "attempt" to demonise people who are making threats to kill hundreds of people.


These "threats", if they are not entirely the work of cointelpro, are being discounted as empty threats. Some animal rights activists (for example) are psychologically imbalanced &/or do stupid things, does that make me dangerous because I, too, am concerned about animal rights? Does it make me, an activist working to raise awareness about geoengineering, a threat because some lunatic or mind-control victim commits an act of violencein the name of the cause I support? This is a propaganda tactic. Guilt by association. Like a white supremacist who hates Obama being given disproportionate publicity to implant the idea that Obama critics are racists. The media pulls this crap all the time!


Aside from painting us as morons who rely solely on YouTube for our information, the underlying message here is that having concerns about what is *clearly* going on in our skies (not just in "heavily-populated towns and cities", where at least heavy jet traffic could be justified...I live out in the middle of nowhere, and RARELY see skies clear of "persistent contrails" anymore...even the nearest airport tells me there should not be much jet traffic over my home!) makes you a violent radical and suggests you could well "come unhinged". As someone taking an active stand against the covert geoengineering of our planet, this concerns me.


I have no intentions to harm anyone, nor do I think violence is the wise, or necessary way to end the spraying. Awareness and peaceful non-compliance, NOT violence, are the means by which all the activists I know intend to accomplish our goal to clean up our skies and heal the planet. That said, they ARE poisoning our children, and if someone came into your home and laced your kid's food with arsenic, you would have every right to kill them. I also don't believe there is any justified "collateral damage" (ie, passengers), nor do I believe that the vast majority of pilots are complicit in these crimes.


Anyone with the most minute dusting of brain cells knows what would happen if they highjacked or attempted to shoot down a plane and it certainly wouldn't result in anything positive for the anti-chemtrails movement. It would just be fuel for the whole "chemtrails activists are dangerous nuts" propaganda, which is why I would not be shocked to see a chemtrails false-flag in the near future, as awareness spreads and it becomes more and more difficult to cover up THEIR criminal activity.


Oh and Mick...clearly I have no regard for environmental issues and it has always been my firm belief that endless war is the only way to lasting peace. Obviously if you are not against global warming you are pro-war. So says manbearpig.
 

Billzilla

Senior Member.
Aside from painting us as morons who rely solely on YouTube for our information,

That would certainly change (for the better) if people were to actually bother to try to find out how meteorology & weather & jet engines actually work rather than, well, having NFI and absorbing & regurgitating the utter rubbish that far too many people post.
 

GregMc

Senior Member.
Your post contains no evidence to support your belief in chemtrails and indicates a lack of understanding about aviation.
Try to think clearly about what you have stated about airports for example.
Proximity to Airports are where airliners spend the LEAST amount of their time on a flight.
The average passenger jet flight duration worldwide is about 6 hours. The flight STARTS and ENDS at an airport. MOST of it is flying over territory that is not above an airport or anywhere near one.
At the start and end of a flight, ie, near airports the planes are at low altitude. Contrails form at high cruising altitude where they are NOT near their takeoff or destination airport so you SHOULD EXPECT to see them where there are no airports far more than you should expect to see them near one.
When people ring up airports the airports will usually tell them about flights to and from THAT airport, not overflights.
I spoke to a canadian woman a while back who insisted that her local airport told her there should not be any jets overflying her house as their small airport did not take jets.
They obviously did not grasp she was referring to the MAJOR enroute flight path about 20 miles away.

http://contrailscience.com/how-far-away-is-that-contrail/


The fact that you claim to be an activist yet haven't grasped such simple facts indicates that it would be far wiser if you undertook to LEARN about aviation and atmospheric physics extensively before you try to spread your misconceptions to others.
It's all well and good to be passionate about doing good but in this case you are misinformed and by your own admission are trying to spread your beliefs to others. WRONG beliefs.
Sorry dude, but spreading ignorance and wrong ideas does harm, not good, and such wrong beliefs have motivated chemtrail believers to threaten murder and shooting down aircraft.
Rather than claim such threats are cointelpro, how about you attempt to carefully fact check and contact the people who made the threats? It's easy to do.
 

gisellewilding

New Member
I do not need to know how they work even though I trained as a scientist but when I see A always followed by B there must be a link. I too mocked chemtrails when I first read about them
 

Chew

Senior Member.
I do not need to know how they work even though I trained as a scientist but when I see A always followed by B there must be a link. I too mocked chemtrails when I first read about them

You must have skipped class the day the professor taught the post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy.
 

gisellewilding

New Member
I would not even kill an intruder and believe to do so is manslaughter.My own sister at gun point was able to rationally talk to her attacker when she was held up to get him to explain why he was doing the robbery.Never ever would I condone attacks on planes who's pilots probably have been fed lies re the spraying.
 

GregMc

Senior Member.
"I see A always followed by B there must be a link."

Yes,
A. Airliners fly up into freezing cold air with high relative humity at high altitude .
B. The water in their exhaust and nucleating soot triggers persistent contrail formation that stretches across the sky and can spread into cirrus.

"I do not need to know how they work"
Not knowing how persistent contrails form is the reason most people have fallen for the chemtrail hoax.

By NOT UNDERSTANDING you are thus prey to wrong information and spurious claims.
By not understanding basic chemistry many people fall prey to scams and hoaxes suggesting that cars can run on water etc.
 
@Greg: When I called the airport (nearest, not "local") they were not talking about flights to or from that airport, as there would be ZERO flights from that specific airport flying over my area. Don't form your opinions based on assumptions. I am not a "dude" and have been watching this covert geoengineering take place firsthand for the past 3+ years from both a more populated locale next to a military base (where the spraying was nonstop!), to a more rural area (remote island, pop less than 1000). Any time there is any blue sky in EITHER place it is soon obscured by these so-called persistent contrails. A totally blue sky is like a blue moon, and most of the "clouds" on many days, as I know from 3 years of daily observation, are not real.


I have watched the progression from "contrail" to "cloud" enough times to recognize a fake cloud even when I haven't watched the entire metamorphosis. In the summer when real clouds are less prevalent, you wake up and the sky is somewhat clear, if not a bit hazy. Then a jet flies over, the contrail persists, becomes a cirrus-type cloud, then another jet flies over, leading to another cirrus-type "cloud", and on and on it goes....ALL FREAKING DAY! Dozens of jets laying parallel trails. By mid-day there is a thick haze, and if you spend as much time outdoors as I do, you will no that very few of those "clouds" are natural. Often we see completely overcast skies SOLELY, 100% from jet "contrails". That is not normal! We used to have blue sky in the summer! This is the geoengineering they have been "proposing", only it isn't a proposition, it is happening now!


I can't understand the mentality of someone who thinks it is normal for the entire sky to be obscured by jet trails nearly every single day. Did you never look up as a child? Do you not remember the endless, sweltering summers when it seemed the sun would never set? Now by late afternoon, almost every day there is this thick, ugly haze. If I was living in a city I might dismiss it as smog, but I'm not. In fact, I moved where I am living now to try to escape the constant chem-haze, which is causing major health issues for myself and my family.


Sometimes I wonder if maybe because chemtrails soon fan out and, to the untrained eye, resemble a cloud, people think they don't see it happening. I have actually heard people say they have never seen chemtrails or even "persistent contrails" and I think it must be because they have not observed the entire process (chemtrail to artificial cloud) and therefore cannot recognize a chemtrail unless it is very "fresh". It really says something, in my opinion, about how out of touch with nature people are nowadays. People with no scientific background parrot establishment "scientists" (propagandists) to try to dismiss something they really have no understanding of whatsoever. Did you know the guy who runs contrailscience is an amateur pilot? Even real scientists can't seem to agree on shit. Maybe it's time to start thinking for ourselves and trusting our own eyes?
 
I do not need to know how they work even though I trained as a scientist but when I see A always followed by B there must be a link. I too mocked chemtrails when I first read about them

Yeah, I have a friend who kinda bashed my chemtrails videos on my YouTube channel once. I don't even think she knew it was my video. Now she is supportive. Same with a family member who actually works where a lot of our trails originate (military base). Once I showed her it was like the veil was lifted and there was no more denying. Now when I post something geoengineering related on FaceBook, she is the first to like/share. Scott Stevens is an award-winning meteorologist who used to doubt the chemtrails conspiracy, now he is speaking out publicly against geoengineering: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9IEoEroPMU
 

Billzilla

Senior Member.
I do not need to know how they work even though I trained as a scientist but when I see A always followed by B there must be a link. I too mocked chemtrails when I first read about them

Yes B follows A.
A is jet fuel and air. Jet fuel contains a lot of carbon and hydrogen atoms. Air contains a lot of oxygen.
B is what happens when you burn A together, and it's called water vapour. Your car does it on a cold morning with its hot exhaust as well and that's why the muffler often has some acidic water in it unless you go for a run on the highway and get it hot enough to get rid of the water.

It's really, really, really simple.
 

gisellewilding

New Member
When I was a kid I watched the contrails and they disappeared. These, as you WELL know do not. I stopped watching them when I grew up till I decided to investigate what I was hearing and have never looked back. A few weeks ago the same flight at the same height left no trail on a cooler day. One trail it left I observed for ages as it spread out.Always always always these sprays are followed by white out skies.
 
Your car does it on a cold morning with its hot exhaust as well ...
It's really, really, really simple.

I don't have a car, but the cars I've seen don't spew vapour that lasts all day. It usually dissipates after a few seconds, just like regular contrails. Even on hot summer days I have seen contrails persist for hours. I remember when I first learned about chemtrails, some debunkers were saying that in rare conditions contrails could persist for hours. Seems where I live we experience these "rare" conditions all the time. Must be a very special place ;)
 

gisellewilding

New Member
Once I had blinkers on re someone's behaviour. I just ignored it even when the evidence was really right before my eyes and I was in total denial. I know what it is like and I know it is human nature to ignore a horrific truth.If only I had acted how different my life would be today and what I would have spared my children.

I cannot ignore what is going on in the skies. I have been blind once to psychopathy. Never again. Our past molds our behaviour.
 
When I was a kid I watched the contrails and they disappeared.
Apparently we are suffering from false memory syndrome. Or maybe air traffic has increased so much since we were kids that we just never noticed the persistent contrails that were always there...Except for the pesky fact that people living in major cities, where there has been heavy air traffic for decades, never noticed anything unusual until fairly recently, either. Of course this can easily be explained by recent studies demonstrating that prior to 1990, nobody ever noticed anything. Ever.
 
Once I had blinkers on re someone's behaviour. I just ignored it even when the evidence was really right before my eyes and I was in total denial. I know what it is like and I know it is human nature to ignore a horrific truth.If only I had acted how different my life would be today and what I would have spared my children.

I cannot ignore what is going on in the skies. I have been blind once to psychopathy. Never again. Our past molds our behaviour.

It seems almost as if you have to have an encounter with a psychopath to truly understand what's going on in the world. Prior to that, you just assume everyone thinks like you. That the worst "they" are capable of isn't much worse than the worst you are capable of. These people (not the pilots, drone operators, whatever...but those at the top of the pyramid, who fully understand what is going on) are not like us at all. You have to have experience with someone who completely lacks empathy, then it becomes brutally obvious what is going on. Everything fits together.
 

GregMc

Senior Member.
Then a jet flies over, the contrail persists, becomes a cirrus-type cloud, then another jet flies over, leading to another cirrus-type "cloud", and on and on it goes....ALL FREAKING DAY! Dozens of jets laying parallel trails. By mid-day there is a thick haze, and if you spend as much time outdoors as I do, you will no that very few of those "clouds" are natural. Often we see completely overcast skies SOLELY, 100% from jet "contrails". That is not normal! We used to have blue sky in the summer!Maybe it's time to start thinking for ourselves and trusting our own eyes?


Actually that is COMPLETELY NORMAL and always has been as long as there has been high altitude aviation.

That fact that you don't understand that simply reveals your lack of research on the subject and ignorance of aviation and atmospheric science.

"The spreading of jet contrails into extensive cirrus sheets is a familiar sight. Often, when persistent contrails exist from 25,000 to 40,000 ft, several long contrails increase in number and gradually merge into an almost solid interlaced sheet."


from Peter Kuhn," Airborne Observations of Contrail Effects on the Thermal Radiation Budget" published 1970.
Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences Volume 27, Issue 6 (September 1970)


http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/1520-0469(1970)027<0937:AOOCEO>2.0.CO;2


“It is often observed that contrails spread considerably…Under favorable conditions, a lateral spread of kilometers is observed…If sufficient air traffic exists, an entire overcast of contrail cirrus may develop and persist for hours with rapid growth in the ice budget of individual contrails.”
http://cires.colorado.edu/science/groups/pielke/classes/atoc7500/knollenberg72.pdf


READ those science papers and learn from them please before making incorrect comments about what you claim is normal or not.
Just because you did not pay much attention to the skies as as kid has no credibility to your argument.
I was a keen model aviator and sailer from a very young age in the 1960s and very well remember horizon spanning contrails from passenger jets.
Just because you don't remember only reflects on your lack of attention and observation skills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDdxb6W7nWU

Extract from ''Flight To Arras'' Published 1943
''The German on the ground knows us by the pearly white scarf which every plane flying at high altitude trails behind like a bridal veil. The disturbance created by our meteoric flight crystallizes the watery vapor in the atmosphere. We unwind behind us a cirrus of icicles. If the atmospheric conditions are favorable to the formation of clouds, our wake will thicken bit by bit and become an evening cloud over the countryside''.

http://books.google.com.na/books?id...#v=onepage&q=popular science contrail&f=false


To quote from 1969 "It is certain that many occasions-30 to 40 days a year, say the cause of cirrus cloud cover is contrails. This cloud cover can take in a substantial part of a continent half the US"

There are huge numbers of similar articles you can read all proving how common long contrails were even in the 1960s and how normal it was for them to form cloud.
Here's another one from 1980
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ki8dAAAAIBAJ&sjid=0J4EAAAAIBAJ&pg=6789,6622896
 

GregMc

Senior Member.
People DID notice the trails back in the 1960s 70s etc. MOST people understand that they are perfectly normal part of aviation. Only a tiny minority of people have fallen for the chemtrail hoax.

The trails appear in thousands of undoctored old films and photographs and are described in detail in numerous books.

Some chemtrail believers dismiss historic footage of ww2 fighter planes and bombers leaving grids and interweaving spirals of high altitude contrails as "smoke" or Flack, denying that piston engined aircraft in ww2 left vapor trails.
Is it a matter of opinion?
No, not at all.
From the photographs and memoirs of hundreds of 1940s aviators we can consult such notable documents as the 1954 memoirs of senior general of luftwaffe fighter squadrons, General der flieger Adolf Galland and his autobiography "Die Ersten und die Letzten" aka "the first and the last"


He writes: "After the take-off the formation used to assemble in the coastal area, still over land, at an altitude of 15,000 to 18,000 feet, in order to climb to between 21,000 and 24,000 feet when crossing the English coast. In the attempt to outclimb the opponent our dogfights occurred at ever-increasing altitudes. My highest combat at that time took place at 25,000 feet. But at 27,000 feet and more—close to the lower limits of the stratosphere—one could usually see the vapor trails of German or English fighters."


So multiple german fighter Ace General Adolf Galland confirms from his own personal experience and writes in a book published in the 1950s that even early in the 1940s, propellor planes were leaving contrails, resulting in even more complexly gridded and looped skies than we see today:
http://consci.s3.amazonaws.com//wp-content/uploads/dogfight-over-london.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q48AEDwFBoY




Yes air traffic HAS increased substantially and there are more flight routes.http://contrailscience.com/30-years-of-airline-travel/


"Apparently we are suffering from false memory syndrome." YES you ARE. Just look at the number of youtube videos with a chemtrail fanatic running around pointing to the trails in the sky to people and the folks saying "I never noticed them before".

Because they had never NOTICED them before those very people would thus have NO MEMORY of the trails until that moment they were pointed out. That is exactly what has happened with you and others. You did not notice them before, but others HAVE and have documented them for many decades.
Your lack of observation and lack of memory is not evidence of anything other than lack of observation skill and lack of memory.

How well do you remember integral calculus from school? How about MOST of the facts you were taught at school?
If you don't remember does that mean that those facts never existed because YOU don't remember . No of course not.
You should actually try to LEARN about atmospheric science and aviation before trying to spread your incorrect and misinformed ideas.
 

Billzilla

Senior Member.
Good posts, Greg.
And as I've explained to Giselle before - but has fallen on deaf ears it would seem - there are two additional reasons why we are seeing more contrails these days.
- Modern jet engines run hotter (more efficient) than older ones and because of physics & chemistry that alone tends to make contrails more often and stronger than the older engines.
- Climate change is subtly altering the atmosphere, again so that contrails are becoming more common and often lasting longer.

None of this is a surprise if you do a few minutes research and have a bit of a think about how it all works.
 

Jazzy

Closed Account
Modern jet engines run hotter (more efficient) than older ones and because of physics & chemistry that alone tends to make contrails more often and stronger than the older engines.
Today's modern turbofans are SIXTEEN TIMES BIGGER than the engines powering the world's first successful stratosphere-cruising passenger jet, the Boeing 707, in the late fifties.

The late fifties was the first time I saw a persistent spreading contrail, while hiking over sand dunes, Southport, Lancs. No coincidence, I think, for it would be on the Great Circle from London to the States.
 

Jazzy

Closed Account
Bigger in throughput and thrust. Also bigger in fuel consumption, but because of efficiency improvements, less so...

It's not just that the numbers of aircraft has increased exponentially, so has the size of their engines. This combination determines the amount by which saturated stratospheric layers are going to get filled by ice crystals. (A transcontinental jumbo trail could possibly contain tens of thousands of tons of ice crystals smaller than a pinhead, in supersaturated conditions.)

Whiteouts are going to occur with increasing frequency as traffic increases, until the next generation navigation systems kick in. As these will be able to report back and collate atmospheric conditions, then saturated stratospheric layers can be avoided by automatic rerouting.
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
Stopgeoengineering - I'm curious about your cointelpro suggestion myself...At which point did it occur to you that the basis of this article may be suspect,and did you do any research to support the idea?
 

DavidZuccaro

New Member
Apparently we are suffering from false memory syndrome. Or maybe air traffic has increased so much since we were kids that we just never noticed the persistent contrails that were always there...Except for the pesky fact that people living in major cities, where there has been heavy air traffic for decades, never noticed anything unusual until fairly recently, either. Of course this can easily be explained by recent studies demonstrating that prior to 1990, nobody ever noticed anything. Ever.

Perhaps it's not so much false memory syndrome as natural human forgetfulness over the years. Have you looked at this thread which shows lots of pictures of persistent contrails going back to the 1960's?

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/487-Pre-1995-Persistent-Contrail-Archive

I would be very interested to hear how you account for the existence of these pictures or do you believe that the supposed chemtrail program started back in the 1960's?
 
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George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Good posts, Greg.
And as I've explained to Giselle before - but has fallen on deaf ears it would seem - there are two additional reasons why we are seeing more contrails these days.
- Modern jet engines run hotter (more efficient) than older ones and because of physics & chemistry that alone tends to make contrails more often and stronger than the older engines.
- Climate change is subtly altering the atmosphere, again so that contrails are becoming more common and often lasting longer.

None of this is a surprise if you do a few minutes research and have a bit of a think about how it all works.

Please explain the climate change issue . . . that is a new one for me?
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Bigger in throughput and thrust. Also bigger in fuel consumption, but because of efficiency improvements, less so...

It's not just that the numbers of aircraft has increased exponentially, so has the size of their engines. This combination determines the amount by which saturated stratospheric layers are going to get filled by ice crystals. (A transcontinental jumbo trail could possibly contain tens of thousands of tons of ice crystals smaller than a pinhead, in supersaturated conditions.)

Whiteouts are going to occur with increasing frequency as traffic increases, until the next generation navigation systems kick in. As these will be able to report back and collate atmospheric conditions, then saturated stratospheric layers can be avoided by automatic rerouting.

Seems the system has been delayed due to technical issues and cost overruns . . . bet the airlines will argue they cannot change altitude and vector because their costs will increase . . .

 
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