Flight tracking Qantas Airlines Flight QF63

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
In Peekay22's latest update, besides his vitriol, he is down to complaining about ordinary cirrus clouds, which he claims are not clouds at all. He really needs to have a look at the 1905 cloud atlas which Mick found here.

Every cloud that Peekay22 claims are not clouds are shown here in photos from over 100 years ago. I hope that Peekay can realize his error.

Later, @ 7:00 in, Peekay disputes the evidence which has been provided showing how a Great Circle is a shorter path over a sphere. Again, I hope Peekay can recognize his error. These errors he is making and his insistent refusal to recognize them is doing nothing but wrecking his credibility and passing on the bogus claims to others who will be similarly affected. It's like a virus.

Later still, @ 11:20, Peekay displays some flight tracks which do show QF 64 passing through Perth and traveling closer to a straight line to/from Johannesburg. One on June 9th, 2011, again on June 24th, 2011, again on July 4th, 2011, which he notes is "a little bit late"(more on that later), and again on July 26th, 2011

What Peekay22 failed to note was that during the time period when he observed diversions in the normal great circle route for QF64/63, beginning on June 6th, the Puyehue-Cordón Caulle Volcanic Complex in Chile was spewing an ash cloud that circled the globe more than once and disrupted flights throughout the Southern Hemisphere. The ash was spread east across South America and then across the Atlantic Ocean, affecting South Africa, where QF64 originates, then went across the Southern Ocean to affect Australia and Tasmania, thus preventing the normal Great Circle Routing of the flight.



You can view a video and description of the ash cloud's progression here.

Further evidence of the flight diversions can be seen in these passenger reports.

In the above passenger reports, they descibe the extraordinary length of the flights, the need to stop in Perth for refueling, which Peekay evidently did not take note of, though as noted above, he did notice that the flight was late!

South African pilots discussed what was happening by June 10th, 2011.

So, what has been shown above is that in fact, the seemingly "direct" route as shown on a flat map format, is actually much longer than the great circle route, and takes much more fuel causing a refueling stop in Perth due to the re-routing.

I really hope that this can close the case for Peekay22, as denying the evidence shown here would be denying geographic fact, logic, eyewitness reports, newspaper accounts, and satellite images.

What do you say to this, Peekay, please respond here or wherever you feel most comfortable.
I have tried to be reasonable, can you?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

firepilot

Senior Member.
I am not sure what Peekay can possibly understand.

You would think from his rants, that he thinks the earth is flat, and the "Great Circle" is a theory. He compliments Mick over being nice, and then just resumes his all out rude profane rants against anyone and everyone, lashing out at Ernie and other debunkers, Cirrus clouds, Science and Qantas.

It has been quite a long time since we have seen unhinged rants like his.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I don't think he specifically thinks the Earth is flat. He just does not understand great circles, and how a 2D map cannot reflect the 3D globe.

It's not hugely complicated, but he's just rather angry, so he naturally rejects ANY argument from a debunker. Maybe when he gets the time to sit down with a globe and piece of string, then he'll sort it out.

Then there's the wind issue, which he's also ignoring so far.
 

firepilot

Senior Member.
While sure, he would probably say he does not think the world is flat, in reality, his geographic cognition is based on a flat earth. How he pictures the world, is a Mercator Projection, and not a 3D Sphere.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
To be fair though, a lot of people (probably most of them) have that same cognition. But now that the great circles explanation has been given, his problem is that his anger is preventing him from considering it.

Anyone who spends a bit of time with a globe and an open mind would be able to get it fairly quickly. Even just clicking on a variety of planes in flightradar24.com, and noticing that they don't go in "straight" lines.



He certainly puts enough energy into his "debunking". It's just a question of if he'll ever chill out a bit.






We'll see.
 
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Ernie Lee

New Member
peekay22 has another video responding to Ernie Lee's illustration above



He does not seem to full understand great circles, and has ignored the wind aspect of it. But he is at least not entirely ignoring the issues raised.

I do think he too might benefit a little from toning down the vitriolic rhetoric :)
This form of abusive attack is the norm with these type of people. I go in with just plain ENGLISH and use my science background to argue my case! ALL we ever get from these chemtrail supporters is abuse .
This issue is far too important to ignore these few mentally challenged people. Normal people seeing these CONTRAILS can be frightened into thinking there is a sinister attempt by government in collusion with the commercial airlines like Qantas to "poison" them ! My aim together with a few other educated people on YouTube is to debunk this chemtrail scam. We would appreciated any other educated posters here to join us on YouTube.
To illustrate my point about a normal person being taken in by this scam, I have I hope got a poor person from Adelaide rethinking his stand on chemtrails.
2011-12-06 Flight SIA238
www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcvve-smrNs&feature=relmfu
You may be aware that Adelaide is at the center of an air corridor over southern Australia. Adelaide is overflown by many aircraft traveling at CONTRAIL heights, See
CHEMTRAILS DEBUNKED-CONTRAIL CONDITIONS, Adelaide, 12/12/ 2011.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8xC5kY0qiU
So as you may see we are fighting quite an important issue !
Thanks for your time and air space !
Ernie Lee
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
For the specific dates he shows, he is correct that flights were re-routed during the time period. In those cases, wind and weather didn't have anything to do with it, but a volcanic eruption did. See, Peekay, it was just a mistake you made because you didn't hear about the re-route due to ash. Qantas offered folks refunds for missed and delayed flights.

Try some googles using keywords like qantas, re-route, ash, and delay, like I did, and you will be able to confirm what I've told you. I am an engineer, there are pilots, a meteorologist, various scientists and other technical specialists posting here, we aren't monsters you should be afraid of. Just people who share your interest yet see things differently. Yes, we get hot-headed just like you do, but Mick, probably the nicest debunker you could ever ask for, is trying to keep us hinged. Please see through this and start posting here. I guarantee you can learn something. Even if you feel we are monsters, deal with us directly and nicely, ask some questions in that way, and we can both probably learn something.

Even if we were hideous monsters bent on poisoning the whole world, there is an old adage, "keep your friends close and your enemies closer". What this means is that only by direct communication with those who don't agree with you can a person learn what their strong and weak points are. You may not believe it, but sometimes we get things wrong, yet we correct each other and take it in stride. Try this little diddy from one of the best Aussie songmakers, Simon Lewis, "Ease Back", and cool off, think about things, and then see how we can start some non-confrontational dialogue beneficial to every one.
 

firepilot

Senior Member.
People tried to tell him about Great Circle Routes on his video, and he deleted all of those comments.

This guy really is unhinged. He poses a question

"Sorry Trolls you can't have your cake and eat it to. Both Flights (which go in completely opposite directions) CANNOT both go quicker or be more fuel efficient.
So what is it to be Trolls?"

But he then deletes any replies trying to explain it
 

firepilot

Senior Member.
Thanks you SANE people in helping to expose this Aussie nut case.
My approach is more direct and I think more effective! I copy his YouTube videos and debunk them for him. Latest is
PARANOID BOGAN'S DILEMMA-The World MUST BE PARANOID BOGAN'S DILEMMA-The World MUST BE FLAT!



I know you covered this before but I think he reposted this video ?
Thanks to all,
Ernie Lee
I love that regarding "Dilemma". Is he saying he thinks it is Dilemna? Eventually another chemmie is going to tell him about that, and he may re-edit..

 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilemma

The incorrect spelling dilemna is often seen in common usage. It appears to have been taught in many areas of the United States and all over the world, including (but not limited to) France, London, Yorkshire, Indiana, Jamaica and Australia.[1][2][3] There is no prima facie reason for this substitution error and there is no erroneous parallel to be found with the word lemma, from which dilemma derives.

Personally I can't spell worth a hoot, half my typing consists of right clicking on the red underlined words. :)
 

Ernie Lee

New Member
Really I don't care how DILEMMA is spelt !My Pocket Oxford defines DILEMMA as"logical or actual position presenting only a choice between two or more unwelcome alternatives" !You will have trouble putting replies onto any of peekay's videos. He will block you straight away. This is why I copied his video about the Great Circle route his beloved QF63. 64 takes.
See
PARANOID BOGAN'S DILEMMA-The World MUST BE FLAT

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy0o_WSVBrE&feature=email&email=comment_reply_received.

My limitation is similar to yours.Thanks, Ernie Lee
 

flea

New Member
I have not yet decided if I believe in chemtrails or not but it is clearly important to look at all the information to come to a conclusion. The fact that so many chemtrail supporters refuse to look at valid information raises obvious questions. The only thing Peekay22's videos have done is make me doubt the chemtrail theory. He asks questions and then deletes all the answers he gets so that his subscribers will not learn what they need to learn. He even attacks and deletes comments by other chemtrail supporters if they are not as extreme as him. I have no problem with anyones beliefs but it does become a problem if they are spreading false information to others. I do not know why they wont look at the information as any information used to debunk chemtrails is very relevant and could also be used to prove chemtrails are real (if they are).

I have a channel with some "chemtrail" videos and I welcome anyone to leave information in the comments as long as you are polite about it. My username is SASkyWatch. I have no problem with debunkers aslong as they go about it the right way. The same goes for people talking about conspiracy theories. Everything could be sorted out a lot quicker if everyone just stayed calm and stop with the insults.

I'm sure they will all think I am a government agent now that I have posted here. lol. So I can probably expect another attack from Peekay22. Yay.

I would just like to point out that I am staying neutral on this issue for the moment.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Hi flea. I'm in agreement with you - one should look at all the information. And I especially agree with "Everything could be sorted out a lot quicker if everyone just stayed calm and stop with the insults."

Good luck!
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I think peekay22 has realized he was wrong in the flight-path discussion, so he's going to drop it.

http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=1VMZnKGGFwU

"check out my latest videos ive made against these morons. I know i shouldnt have gone into the flight path thing with this idiot. Fact is who cares where the planes come from...fact is the end up flying over our major cities and spray each day...this is one thing the trolls cannot own up to.
see 2 videos i made TROLLS EXPOSED"

It's unfortunate that the typical response of conspiracy theorists who discover they are wrong is to simply go quiet. If they could honestly admit their mistakes, then we could converge on the truth much quicker.

I think perhaps the adversarial approach makes them less likely to admit mistakes, as it's seen as a battle, rather than a discussion. Another reason to keep it polite.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
his worry aboout a/c tracking over cities would probablybe related to VOR's wouldn't it? I can get access to Australian nav charts, but it's complicated & they are not easy to reproduce.....
 

firepilot

Senior Member.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPEDQ10A0SA

Missed this one from our friend Peekay. Around the 3 min mark, he is going as far as saying if you ever see trails, that is spraying. Wierd, because in the same sentence he will say that contrails exist, but then again he says that you should not be able to see them from the ground, so any trails seen, are spraying.
 

firepilot

Senior Member.
Peekay seems to have gone quiet. Maybe him getting soundly lampooned over not understanding great circle routes got to him, and he is hesitant to make more nonsense videos.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Tell me guys, how does it feel to be exposed as the obviously obvious worthless shills that you are?
 

firepilot

Senior Member.
He is back! Usual stuff, he does not grasp still how 9000 ft of altitude difference, can change how prominent a contrail is.

 

swoop

New Member
Well I am new to the site after a friend posted about this peekay22 and his antics!

As a pilot myself (and based in Melbourne) I know how conditions affect contrails etc. he just throws away any logical explanation.

Unfortunately people actually believe him! but good to see the government is ignoring him..

I have to say though we do get enormous laughs out of his videos!
 
E

Eshays

Guest
Saw his video a while back, and only recently he was brought to my attention again by a friend. I (having not much else to do) watched the most of his videos and I think a 10 year old could form a more logical argument.
The fact is, he contradicts what he says, he makes up ideas with no proof or evidence, blocks out scientific facts which are the basis of everything that works in this world and his premises don't even prove the conclusion making his argument invalid let alone unrealistic. I made a reply to one of his videos, politely asking him to explain himself further, only to be blocked and rudely spoken to. This man, even if he was right is wrong because he is approaching this so illogically and cannot explain himself when questioned.

PEEKAY:
I know you read these comments Peekay so can i ask you nicely: When you dis out the CON trail people (as shown in the most recent video), please provide evidence that a contrail cannot change its form at different altitudes in different conditions (You state a lot of things but have no facts, i could state the black smoke coming from cars is a chemtrail that they are using on streets now, the only reason you would have not to believe me is if you know something about cars and why there is black smoke. I could go on making videos recording cars with black smoke, saying sometimes they spray sometimes they don't, the white smoke is normal etc. That is where I feel you are at now).
I have seen CON trails form on a Cesna my brother flew. I know for a fact he could not fit chemicals in those wings and there was no nozzle's for it to come out. That is factual evidence they exist, you only have a theory. Please reply in a civilized manor. Feel free to prove me wrong and talk shit about me on youtube, after you have sought out proving me wrong (With facts, or studies, or evidence etc).

Otherwise people, I suggest we leave him to this, he does not listen to anyone and IF proven wrong in the end will not admit up but rather stop making videos. The reason I watched the video, is because it was affecting my friend (Nothing serious but he wastes time on it, and always points them out when we go out) who dearly believes him and chemtrails, so I wanted to show him some flaws in the chemtail myth.
No point wasting time with these people. I have known a conspirasist believing in this and she has no clue what she is saying, but will not believe anything anyone else says no matter what you tell her, they are fixated to it.
Lastly, don't get me wrong, there may be chemtrails, but let me say that the ones the [chemtrailers] are pointing out are most likely not, and they cannot claim they are but should rather say, I believe these are because.

Sorry for my long rant, just thought I would post something here.
 

firepilot

Senior Member.


He brings up that people are mentioning the 9000 ft altitude difference, but he still calls them all idiots and trolls

However, what is more interesting, is that the other chemtrail believer (End the Resistance) who had been involved with him, is asking him to stop it with calling everyone names, and to try to address weather factors instead.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Since Peekay may be reading this, and he's blocked me (of course) - I would just like to say this - No dude - no-one is telling you that at 30,000 ft there should be no trail at all. People are telling you that there should be a trail at any altitude the conditions are right for it - you can get contrails at ground level when conditions are right - such as Antarctica (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtISR1_OzSQ), and that a 9000 foot difference is plenty to have massive differences in atmospheric conditions.

Think of a low cloud - the kind that sits at about 2-3000 feet - 100 feet outside the cloud conditions are not right for cloud to form, but 200 feet away - 100 feet INSIDE the cloud - conditions ARE right for cloud to form.

And that applies both vertically and horizontally - if you have scattered cloud then there are variable conditions at the same altitude!

So sometimes conditions are right at 30,000 feet....other times they are not - the atmosphere is not a single block of air all at the same temperature and humidity - it differs with height, and it differs with horizontal distance.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Not only convenient but true - when conditions are not right for clouds to form, clouds don't form. What is the actual problem with things happening when conditions are right?

Or do you think it is untrue in some manner?
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Airbus planes were fitted with instrumentation and flew their regular passenger routes worldwide. Here were the results:
http://www.pa.op.dlr.de/issr/

This explains the distribution of ice-supersaturated regions, when "conditions are right" for contrail persistence.
If "debunk this" wants to dispute this evidence, he needs to show how this data is incorrect.
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
This youtube video seems relevant. It depicts an A380 overtaking an A340 on the same heading but at a higher altitude. Both are producing contrails but of different character. The planes look exceedingly close but assuming they are following proper flight rules there is actually several thousand feet separating them and they look close because their great distance from the viewer makes the distance between them seem tiny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWG7x04ZfGE&feature=related


 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Very cool video. At the start I got the very strong impression of looking DOWN at two boats leaving wakes on a lake.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
A380 Length = 238 feet
A340-600 length = 247 feet

Measuring the lengths in photoshop:
A380 length in image = 0.732
A340 length in image = 0.815

For practical purposes we can say the planes are about the same length (238 and 247), so the the A380 is about 8/7 the height of the A340. So if the A340 is at about 28,000 feet, the A380 is at about 32,000 feet. Or around 4,000 feet higher.

Very approximate though, due to the limited resolution of the video.

 
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scombrid

Senior Member.
I think I goofed in my post and the A340 is the overtaking vessel in which case your capture has the correct plane labels but the altitudes you display should be switched. I'm not sure though.
 
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