Debunked: Pilots Doctors and Scientists tell Truth about Chemtrails

Joe Kerr

Joe Kerr

New Member
I have a friend who told me this video is "PROOF OF CHEMTRAILS" but I disagree.

I did a bit of research myself, and I found that it is an extract from a Shasta County meeting, the full version I found here:
http://www.avcaptureall.com/Sessions.aspx#session.7c6446fd-6b79-42db-ab81-480b9a0969d1
I notice the first two speakers in the edited video seem to be talking bunk, and I found out more information about them here:
http://www.co.shasta.ca.us/docs/BOS/2014-minutes/min2014-07-15.pdf?sfvrsn=2
The implication from the video overlays is that the first speaker is some form of scientist, he talks about contrails being like your breath on a cold day. However, he appears to be some form of maths teacher:
External Quote:
Iraja Sivadas, an instructor of mathematics at Shasta College and a member of Union of
Concerned Scientists
The second speaker talks about today's trails being not natural, but surely any commercial pilot would know about long contrails, as they see them every day. If he is a pilot of a commercial aircraft, it worries me that he does not understand contrails.
External Quote:
Jeff Nelson, former airline pilot, said the chemtrails seen now are not natural and not
normal.
I also found this page http://thevane.gawker.com/chemtrails-dont-exist-and-shasta-county-is-ground-zero-1609896588 which criticises Shasta County, quite rightly I think.

Does anyone have any more information on this, so that I can debunk this video? Or can anyone point me to a more appropriate place here?

And does anyone know what happened to this topic, now that 3 months have passed by?

How can the Federal Government of the United States investigate something that does not exist? It would be interesting to know where this heads.

Thanks


[Admin: Thread split from: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/shasta-county-supervisors-to-discuss-chemtrails.3945 ]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Joe Kerr said:
Does anyone have any more information on this, so that I can debunk this video?
Click to expand...

Could you be a bit more specific? What claim exactly do you want to debunk?

There's a lot of stuff here, try just searching for "shasta" in the search box at the top right.
 
Mick West said:
Could you be a bit more specific? What claim exactly do you want to debunk?

There's a lot of stuff here, try just searching for "shasta" in the search box at the top right.
Click to expand...

I have some friends who are very ardent chemtrail advocates. No matter what I seem to say, they always give something new to me. This video was produced very recently.

In this video, I am at a loss to explain why a pilot wearing a uniform, Jeff Nelson, does not understand contrails. Maybe some information about Jeff Nelson's background would help, if known. Also the other person, Iraja Sivadas, says he is a mathematician, but of course mathematicians do not necessarily understand physics. I'd like to know if they are both retired. When people are retired, they have no reputation to lose in their professional field.

I have read here that one of the people in the video was involved with the making of "What on Earth are they Spraying", so I assume this area is a hotbed of activity for chemtrails. And I presume anyone can say anything at these meetings, whoever they are.
 
Joe Kerr said:
In this video, I am at a loss to explain why a pilot wearing a uniform, Jeff Nelson
Click to expand...
The other pilot mentioned, Russ Lazuka, seems to have chequered past.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...dYpAAAAIBAJ&sjid=x9EEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1397,2444722

It may not mean much but I doubt he would get a gig with a major airline with this on his record. These things tend to be deal breakers.

As Mick says, credentials don't mean much. There are pilots who believe in chemtrails, however I have never seen or met a heavy jet pilot who does.
 
TWCobra said:
As far as I can tell Lazuka worked for Atlantic South-east airlines as a turbo-prop pilot sometime in the late 80's. This airline was eventually bought by Delta but did not receive its first jet till 2002. I don't know when he became a "former airline pilot."

Lazuka comments on quite a few conspiracy websites; Such as here, and here.
Click to expand...

Now.....there is NOTHING WRONG with a pilot who has experience flying turbo-props.....HOWEVER, "if" this guy is running around spouting THAT sort of "experience". ....as to regards contrails? Then, I will need to find him and shake his hand!! (And a few other things...oh, wait....that is tantamount to "violence"....I joke, I kid....of course.....)......
 
Fred Meyer is interesting. He is a Vietnam era USAF helicopter pilot who also claims to have seen a missile downing TWA 800.

The question begged there is does his involvement now in the chemtrail hoax indicate a predilection for conspiracy theories or is it just a intriguing coincidence?

Neither Meyer nor Lazuka appear to have ever flown anything capable of making a contrail. That is not a prerequisite for dismissing chemtrails, but it certainly helps. I can't find anything on Jeff Nelson.
 
Just watched the video. Fred Meyer was not present and so did not speak. Lazuka was just a mish-mash of total disinformation. Quite embarassing from a pilot's point of view.
 
Thanks all. I don't believe in shooting the messenger, but when the messenger is claiming professional authority, and say contrails today are not normal, this seems to cause confusion in some, who see pilot X saying one thing, and pilot Y another.

When people retire, they can say whatever conspiracy theory they like. People seem to mistake the retired conspiracy theorists for whistleblowers. So, I was trying to check out the professional authority they were claiming, because some people just don't seem to understand the science surrounding contrails.

Sometimes I just get fed up of trying to debunk... it uses up all my energy. Let them go further down the rabbit hole, perhaps. Sigh.
 
Hama Neggs said:
Actually, it's more like pilot X saying one thing and pilots A through W times 1000 saying the opposite.
Click to expand...
But "they" put pilot x in an official-looking meeting with uniform, and copy it on You-tube multiple times in different edits with titles like Pilots Doctors and Scientists tell Truth about Chemtrails. Pilots A through W can't be bothered to say anything (rightly so).
TWCobra said:
I can't find anything on Jeff Nelson
Click to expand...
I can't either. He says he worked for some kind of academy - he says the largest - that's all I can find. He seems to know a lot about engines. Maybe he just taught theory in his latter years.
TWCobra said:
Fred Meyer is interesting. He is a Vietnam era USAF helicopter pilot who also claims to have seen a missile downing TWA 800.

The question begged there is does his involvement now in the chemtrail hoax indicate a predilection for conspiracy theories or is it just a intriguing coincidence?
Click to expand...
How fascinating.
 
Mark McCandlish, the "Defense Industry Technician", is an artist, and worked in the aerospace industry as an artist, nothing more.

He's also a bit of an UFO enthusiast, and thinks he's discovered some new physics.
http://www.markmccandlish.com/
External Quote:
Mark McCandlish is an internationally-recognized artist who has specialized in aviation and conceptual art within the defense and aerospace industries for the better part of the last thirty years, serving the needs of many of the top American corporations in this regard. Mark's father was a twenty-five year veteran of the United States Air Force and as a consequence, Mark has had a life-long love of aircraft and aviation history. His first UFO sighting occurred at Westover Air Force Base in the State of Massachusetts, in the Winter of 1966 and he observed the craft through an 80 power telescope for about ten minutes before it accelerated out of sight at an extreme velocity. He later discovered that this craft had been hovering above a flight of nuclear-armed Boeing B-52′s sitting on the Alert Ramp of the flight line on base. Mr. McCandlish has spent most of his life trying to discover the science that would make such incredible performance possible, and he believes there is a plausible answer to interstellar flight without violating the currently-accepted laws of physics. Having had literally dozens of sightings since 1966, he feels certain that this carefully protected technology has been co-opted by an as-yet-unknown group, and the sequestration of this technology has provided that organization tremendous leverage in world politics, finance and international conflicts over the past five decades.
Really though, the key thing here is that all these people think that contrails can't persist, and they are demonstrably wrong there. One can point out that their backgrounds have been exaggerated and embellished, but it's much more important to focus on the fact that what they say contradicts known science and history - including 70 years of books on clouds.
 
TWCobra said:
As I said Joe, no heavy jet pilots believe in chemtrails. If you can find one, I will supply the beer.
Click to expand...

I can't entirely confirm this, though I did come across a YouTube video a while back (I'll see if I can find it again), where a guy claiming to have worked for United, and had something like 2000 hours (probably an FO), was chirping off the usual "contrails can't persist" argument. I don't know exactly what he flew (he was an older gentleman, so for all I know he could have driven a DC-3), but sometimes, when it comes to conspiracy theories like these, I don't particularly find it too unusual if there are in fact a few odd jet pilots out there who buys into this. It reminds me a little of the Pilots For Truth movement. I think a majority of pilots would say that flying an aircraft into a building that's wider than a lot of runways isn't exactly a feat even at high airspeed, but there will always be the anomalous pilot out there who thinks otherwise.

To be honest, at least during the course of my flight training, the topic of contrails isn't really discussed in much depth. I suppose that for most, if you understand how a cloud works, and how an engine combusts, you'd know how a contrail forms and persists. But when it came to actual training, it's really just a passing topic that most people don't even care about. Flying above the clouds at say 20,000 feet+, one can see contrails a lot, and often times the type of aircraft they come from, but even then, a lot of pilots really just don't pay them much mind. So with this said, I think that any pilot (ATP, CPL, or otherwise) who doesn't take the time to investigate are prone to fall into the rabbit hole just as any other conspiracy theorist. Most pilots at least know airplanes up close, but I wouldn't be surprised if we do in fact see a heavy jet pilot echoing the same bunk at some point in time.
 
Rico said:
I did come across a YouTube video a while back (I'll see if I can find it again), where a guy claiming to have worked for United, and had something like 2000 hours (probably an FO), was chirping off the usual "contrails can't persist" argument.
Click to expand...

Rico, I hope you can find it.

Just to add to your other excellent comments....(and slightly veering OT)...I am tangentially aware of other 'professional' pilots, active at various major airlines, who still stick to other mistaken beliefs RE: 9/11 (for instance). So yes, the "rabbit hole" can be a lure.....for a VERY tiny few.
 
I have access to at least thirty pilots a week on a one on one basis and I think it would be interesting to bring it up but honestly it would be embarrassing. I think I've fitted chemtrails into a few light hearted discussions but not out of the blue.
 
External Quote:
Allan R. Buckmann
Activist Post

I am a trained U.S. Air Force weather observer who worked in the military as an observer from 1960‐1964, serving mainly at Beale AFB, with a 3-month assignment at the Pacific Missile Range at Point Hueneme, Oxnard, California, working with NASA, RCA, and the U.S. Navy on the Tiros III weather satellite readout team. I am familiar with cloud observation, jet contrails, the military, and space-based weather information systems.

Contrails are by definition 'condensation trails' left by hot jet exhaust melting ice crystals which rapidly cool and refreeze and disappear. They do not stay in the sky and create clouds. A contrail is usually of low volume and extends some 2‐20 times the length of the aircraft. Exceptions occurred during WW II from large deployments of combustion engine bombers, but did not generally extend into the jet age.

Jet clouds made their major appearance for weather observers in the early 1990s, after many years of jet traffic without such clouds. One can go back and look at the sky in old movies to see the changes.

Why the change? Were the changes unintentional from commercial airlines and a change in fuel?
http://www.activistpost.com/2012/08/chemtrail-whistleblower-allan-buckmann.html

I don't know how much his 'beliefs' have to do with his company:
http://www.microbetech.com/about/
 
I found an article here by a man named Allan R. Buckmann: http://www.zengardner.com/chemtrail...ckmann-some-thoughts-on-weather-modification/
(EDIT: Analyst beat me to it. )


Buckmann describes himself as a USAF weather observer in 1960 - 1964.

Interestingly this is how he describes contrails:

Contrails are by definition 'condensation trails' left by hot jet exhaust melting ice crystals which rapidly cool and refreeze and disappear.
Click to expand...

Well, he neglected to mention that aircraft deposits water as product of combustion, but according to him, ice crystals when they "refreeze" apparently "disappear." Condensation by it's very definition does not involve "melting ice crystals", it involves changing a gas to a liquid. When you deposit gaseous water vapor into a cold atmosphere, it goes from an invisible vapor to a visible liquid and possibly to ice (deposition) if it is cold enough. I don't know how he got the concept backwards.
 
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Gabriel Incertis said:
And what do you think about an alleged former meteorologist like Buckmann supporting this chemtrail nonsense?
Click to expand...

He isnt a meteorologist. A meteorologist has a degree. Alan Buckmann was trained as a weather observer which is a job requiring the ability to recognise meteorological phenomena such as cloud types and sky coverage, temperature, dew point, wind speed and direction etc and report it, usually for aviation related purposes.

Buckmann is generally careful not to claim he is a meteorologist. It is usually others who make the claim for him. Scott Stevens is the same, but he calls himself a "weatherman", which I feel is a title that is deliberately ambiguous.
 
TWCobra said:
He isnt a meteorologist. A meteorologist has a degree.
Click to expand...
That's why I said "alleged meteorologist". It called my attention the possibility that a real meteorologist could believe in chemtrails. Although Buckmann is careful not to claim himself as a meteorologist, it seems he doesn't feel the need to correct others when they call him "former military meteorologist." He has also the degree of "chemtrail whistleblower" in the chemmies community.
I took a look to the background of other "experts" that appear in this video. For example Dr. Steven Davis, a curious "doctor" with this tacky homepage http://www.drddc.com/pages/drd.html. Dr. Davis practices "quantum therapy" and handles concepts such as "Spiritual Chaos Homeopathic Energy". I don't even understand how could someone who wants to convince others about chemtrails, use the testimonies of this kind of weirdos.
 
Well to some people what makes intuitive sense and feels right for their worldview is more important than building a case on facts that support each other - hence 'weirdos' (or 'those with alternate beliefs about reality').
They enhance the package to some. It's a holistic thing.
 
He has a post about the meeting on FB:

External Quote:

Jeff Nelson, Anderson
Citizens offer facts, are treated as 'nuts'
The report on last week's meeting of the Shasta County Air Pollution Control Board was the most biased and slanted report I have ever heard.
I was there and listened to the entire public hearing. Every speaker I heard gave their opinion on factual information. For the most part the reporter slanted their statements to make them appear doomsdayers and a bunch of "nuts." Then the reporter found a supporter of her own opinion outside the chamber to discredit those who spoke to the chamber.
The reporter gave her supporter lots of credibility and many paragraphs of statements. As a retired airline pilot and lead instructor at the world's largest flight academy, I gave information from my many years teaching other pilots about weather and looking through my cockpit windscreen and not as a physicist sitting in row 27. The Record Searchlight for whatever reason chose not to cover my statements nor to mention my background and qualifications. Was this a part of its agenda?
If the Record Searchlight is truly sure of its reporting, then it should accept the local community's offer of a public debate on what is going on up there. The facts are, someone is spraying something at high altitude into the air. "Look up, America."
There are 7 Jeffrey Nelson's in California listed in the FAA Airman database - 2 of them are instructors, but from this post I guess the guy might no longer have a licence??
 
MikeC said:
He has a post about the meeting on FB:

External Quote:

Jeff Nelson, Anderson
Citizens offer facts, are treated as 'nuts'
The report on last week's meeting of the Shasta County Air Pollution Control Board was the most biased and slanted report I have ever heard.
I was there and listened to the entire public hearing. Every speaker I heard gave their opinion on factual information. For the most part the reporter slanted their statements to make them appear doomsdayers and a bunch of "nuts." Then the reporter found a supporter of her own opinion outside the chamber to discredit those who spoke to the chamber.
The reporter gave her supporter lots of credibility and many paragraphs of statements. As a retired airline pilot and lead instructor at the world's largest flight academy, I gave information from my many years teaching other pilots about weather and looking through my cockpit windscreen and not as a physicist sitting in row 27. The Record Searchlight for whatever reason chose not to cover my statements nor to mention my background and qualifications. Was this a part of its agenda?
If the Record Searchlight is truly sure of its reporting, then it should accept the local community's offer of a public debate on what is going on up there. The facts are, someone is spraying something at high altitude into the air. "Look up, America."
There are 7 Jeffrey Nelson's in California listed in the FAA Airman database - 2 of them are instructors, but from this post I guess the guy might no longer have a licence??
Click to expand...

The "world's largest flight academy" would appear to be the Oxford Aviation Academy, which is based in England but has a facility in Phoenix, Arizona.

Searching for "Jeff Nelson" or "Jeffrey Nelson" plus "Oxford Aviation" turns up no results on the web.
 
Looks like people are getting a bit dissatisfied with the lack of progress at Shasta, and are planning a protest.
upload_2015-6-27_13-9-34.png
 
WeedWhacker said:
I am tangentially aware of other 'professional' pilots, active at various major airlines, who still stick to other mistaken beliefs RE: 9/11 (for instance). So yes, the "rabbit hole" can be a lure.....for a VERY tiny few.
Click to expand...

I don't know any commercial pilots apart from you gentlemen on here, and my nearest connection to civil aviation is a Cessna 152 and my girlfriend's brother-in-law who is an engineer for Ryanair and I do enjoy a good chat with him about chemtrails and to bully him about Ryanair.

BUT, I do know a lot of Tornado GR4 crew and I have discussed this and other CTs of which they all entirely dismiss, and in fact they were quite helpful in explaining and demonstrating to me the whole 'why were jets not instantly scrambled and vectored directly to the hijacked airliners at supersonic speed' guff that CTs often ask, which a suspicious tone.

Having said all that, I have had to burst their bubbles a few times about how infallible / handsome / perfect they are, so yes, some pilots believe some rather unlikely things....o_O
 
BombDr said:
BUT, I do know a lot of Tornado GR4 crew and I have discussed this and other CTs of which they all entirely dismiss, and in fact they were quite helpful in explaining and demonstrating to me the whole 'why were jets not instantly scrambled and vectored directly to the hijacked airliners at supersonic speed' guff that CTs often ask, which a suspicious tone.
Click to expand...

Whilst I greatly appreciate the tone of your post. Thank you for sharing. It did veer a bit off-topic into the so-called "9/11 debate" area.

AND yes..... ' I ' started it....I take full responsibility!!! (**)

(**)Should clear this up...the 'veer' within the thread....that is what I'm 'copping' to....(lol!).
 
So, just a (feeble) attempt at getting to topic? Shasta is still a "thing"??? Seems.....it was a "Town-Hall" type of meeting....about a year ago?

I see Mick's post just up-thread (apologies as I get "up-to-speed").

Perhaps once again, a description of just how many Upper-level Jet Routes exist in that vicinity? To explain the preponderance of (sometimes) persistent contrails, when upper-level conditions are conducive for their formation?
 
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