Debunking "Contrails don't Persist" with a Study of 70 Years of Books on Clouds

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
One problem I have in telling people that contrails can actually persist, and can even spread out to cover the sky, is that people tend to be suspicious of random people on the internet. So I decided to simply let 70 years of books on clouds speak for themselves.


Result: Every single book on clouds that I could find for the last 70 years says that contrails can persist for hours.

So next time some random guy on the internet tells you contrails can't persist and spread, then ask them why 70 years of books on clouds say the opposite.

My cloud book collection:


Selected References:

1991: National Audubon Society Field Guide to North American Weather
https://www.flickr.com/photos/metabunk/sets/72157644020551293/


1988: Exploring the Sky By Day, Page 49
https://www.flickr.com/photos/metabunk/sets/72157643850292503/


1981: Peterson Field Guide to the Atmosphere, page 137
http://www.flickr.com/photos/metabunk/sets/72157641675780313/


1972: Clouds of the World, page 130
https://www.flickr.com/photos/metabunk/sets/72157641669574294/


1969: Clouds and Weather. Page 28
https://www.flickr.com/photos/metabunk/sets/72157641629656855/


1957: Cloud Study: A pictorial Guide, page 79
https://www.metabunk.org/sk/1957CloudstudyapictorialguideOCR.pdf


1943 -Clouds, C. J. P. Cave, page 10


1943 - Cloud Reading For Pilots, page 73
http://www.flickr.com/photos/metabunk/sets/72157642316592915/


The above are simply the books I personally own. There are many other books that can be found in scanned form on the internet:

1983: Encyclopedia Britannica:
http://books.google.com/books?id=SBM8AAAAMAAJ&q=contrails "last for several hours"


1975 International Cloud Atlas:
http://library.wmo.int/pmb_ged/wmo_407_en-v1.pdf


1946, Brewer, Condensation Trails: Weather, June 1946
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/media/pdf/c/3/1946_Brewer_condensation_trails.pdf


The Weather Book - web.jpg

1921, July, U.S. Air Service
U.S.AirService-1921-MacReady.png
 

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NoParty

Senior Member
I like how you made those "books" look so real, Mr. Random Guy on the Internet…if that is your real name! ;)
 
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deirdre

Moderator
Staff member
if people didn't believe "some Random Guy on the internet" you wouldn't have to explain about contrails in the first place!
 

Joe

Senior Member
So Mick went back in time and wrote a few books to convince a few people that persistent contrails have always existed . :) . To be serious very interesting Mick . Thank You .
 

deirdre

Moderator
Staff member
So Mick went back in time and wrote a few books to convince a few people that persistent contrails have always existed . :) . To be serious very interesting Mick . Thank You .
I think he just printed out new dust covers. I mean, come on, who still has the jacket cover from a 1957 book! :confused:

just kidding, Mick.
 

Vincent Ferrari

New Member
I'm so glad you posted this. I've always wondered about the "contrails don't linger" thing supporting the existence of chemtrails. Anyone who's lived near an airport can tell you that they linger for hours, sometimes, on certain weather days, so unless all planes landing at an airport are trying to poison us, the "how long they last" part is the worst debunking I've seen yet.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Oops, I put 70 years when the shown books only go back 57. I have some books on order from the 1940s. Hopefully they will also mention contrails.

And if anyone has any other books they would like to contribute scans form, I can add them to the OP.

I'd especially like it if someone could find a 1983 Encyclopedia Britannica.
 
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SR1419

Senior Member
Oops, I put 70 years when the shown books only go back 57. I have some books on order from the 1940s. Hopefully they will also mention contrails.

And if anyone has any other books they would like to contribute scans form, I can add them to the OP.

I'd especially like it if someone could find a 1983 Encyclopedia Britannica.

I know the Cloud Studies book from 1905 doesn't have any contrails in it- but it does have a great sampling of clouds that are often associated with "chemtrails" today and is a powerful tool for debunking some of supposed unnatural clouds that are claimed today...I think it deserves to be included or at least honorable mention:

https://plus.google.com/photos/107393796095434664991/albums/5236028370090070321?banner=pwa
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I know the Cloud Studies book from 1905 doesn't have any contrails in it- but it does have a great sampling of clouds that are often associated with "chemtrails" today and is a powerful tool for debunking some of supposed unnatural clouds that are claimed today...I think it deserves to be included or at least honorable mention:

https://plus.google.com/photos/107393796095434664991/albums/5236028370090070321?banner=pwa
Yeah, but I just wanted to keep it focused on the persistence claim. Adding in "HAARP clouds" dilutes the issue a bit. Cloud Studies is mentioned in many places here and on CS. I like to show it to chemtrail believers.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member
The response I have gotten was "See how far back they have been poisoning Us." It is like talking about religion and Dane and Alex are the prophets.
Yep. Their cry of "I REMEMBER THEY NEVER LOOKED LIKE THIS BEFORE THE MID-90s" just falls by the wayside, as if it never was the mainstay of "proof" for their claims at all.
 

Joe

Senior Member
World Book Encyclopedia 1970 has 4 pages on clouds. Nothing mentioning contrail cirrus or any pictures of them either . [...]
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
World Book Encyclopedia 1970 has 4 pages on clouds. Nothing mentioning contrail cirrus or any pictures of them either . [...]
(Off topic material removed).

One encylopedia does not a trend make. The topic of this thread is the persistence of contrails, and the evidence that they persist in old books. Your book does not mention them either way.

Did you look under "contrails", or "vapour trails"?
 

Joe

Senior Member
(Off topic material removed).

One encylopedia does not a trend make. The topic of this thread is the persistence of contrails, and the evidence that they persist in old books. Your book does not mention them either way.

Did you look under "contrails", or "vapour trails"?
I looked under clouds . There was no contrails . Ill Look thru the other books in the set and see what I can find . Yes I understand it does not make a trend . I have 30 years of Old National Geographic . Bet there some contrails there .
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member
Wow. Now this is there:

It doesn't matter what evidence is presented, they seem to ALWAYS find a way to just incorporate it into the conspiracy.
 

NoParty

Senior Member
Wow. Now this is there:

It doesn't matter what evidence is presented, they seem to ALWAYS find a way to just incorporate it into the conspiracy.
OMG! That is priceless!!!

No irony at all, the 180 from:

(untrustworthy "Bilderberg MI5K") "Anyone can publish a book...probably the easiest bit of it to do…"
to
(the defenders of truth) "Try and look at very old encyclopedias"

Wow!! Thanks Hama Neggs


p.s. To be fair, I pointed out in post #2 that Mick obviously faked those books! :rolleyes:
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member
It sounds like desperation really, scrambling to invent new reasons to keep the fantasy alive.
It's exactly what they used to do with the "Planet X" fantasy. They would claim that any star charts showing something proving their story wrong were recently "doctored". If you suggested going to libraries and looking up stuff in older books showing the same data as modern charts they said had been "doctored", they usually just fell silent.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member
OMG! That is priceless!!!

No irony at all, the 180 from:

(untrustworthy "Bilderberg MI5K") "Anyone can publish a book...probably the easiest bit of it to do…"
to
(the defenders of truth) "Try and look at very old encyclopedias"

Wow!! Thanks Hama Neggs

p.s. To be fair, I pointed out in post #2 that Mick obviously faked those books! :rolleyes:
And this: "...genuine atmospheric literature from scientific bodies." Why don't they ever actually DO that?
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member
Why not help them?

It should be easy enough to post a link to 10 or 20 papers dating back decades from scientists around the World that could provide some insight?

here is one of many:

http://contrailscience.com/files/1970-AMS-i1520-0469-27-6-937.pdf
Try and get them to look at that. Challenge what he said and supply what he asked for. GO for it! It's BOUND to be entertaining to see how they twist their way out of believing anything in those papers.
 

Mark Barrington

Active Member
I have a 1956 encyclopedia*, and while it does not have an article on contrails, there are several photos in the articles and yearbooks that show contrails. I haven't scanned them as they're not particularly impressive and my scanner is buried in a closet somewhere, but I could scan them.

*the American Peoples Encyclopedia, which came with a coffee table that holds all of the volumes. I got the coffee table, encyclopedias, and 10 years of yearbooks at a garage sale for $50.
 

deirdre

Moderator
Staff member
Try and get them to look at that. Challenge what he said and supply what he asked for. GO for it! It's BOUND to be entertaining to see how they twist their way out of believing anything in those papers.
I imagine they are looking for science stuff that says contrails DON'T persist. no?
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member
I imagine they are looking for science stuff that says contrails DON'T persist. no?
They only look for things which reinforce their beliefs.

Anything posted along the lines of those docs from contrailscience will be met with this sort of response, from that same page:

 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I have a 1956 encyclopedia*, and while it does not have an article on contrails, there are several photos in the articles and yearbooks that show contrails. I haven't scanned them as they're not particularly impressive and my scanner is buried in a closet somewhere, but I could scan them.

*the American Peoples Encyclopedia, which came with a coffee table that holds all of the volumes. I got the coffee table, encyclopedias, and 10 years of yearbooks at a garage sale for $50.
Even just some photos of the page(s) would be great.
 

Mark Barrington

Active Member
Even just some photos of the page(s) would be great.
Ask and ye shall receive. This is from the 1964 American People's Encyclopedia yearbook (Events of 1963), p. 51. The article is 'The Long View' by Howard K. Smith. This was during the height of the cold war and the photo caption is pretty indicative of that. As you can see, the photo reproduction quality in the A.P.E. is fairly poor, and most of the photos with the articles are pretty small. B-52s are pretty smoky, but the trail from the plane in the back is definitely a contrail. I uploaded a full size photo if the thumbnail does not have enough detail, just click to view.

DSC_0284.JPG

APE1964yearbook.JPG
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Got at 1941 book in the mail today:


(dust cover included :) )

Had a cool original signature and cartoon by the author: (which might actually be worth something, as Eric Sloane's works go for a bit now)


Unfortunately not a huge amount about contrails:


See bottom left here:
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member
One problem I have in telling people that contrails can actually persist, and can even spread out to cover the sky, is that people tend to be suspicious of random people on the internet. So I decided to simply let 70 years of books on clouds speak for themselves.


Result: Every single book on clouds that I could find for the last 70 years says that contrails can persist for hours.

So next time some random guy on the internet tells you contrails can't persist and spread, then ask them why 70 years of books on clouds say the opposite.

My cloud book collection:


Selected References:

1991: National Audubon Society Field Guide to North American Weather
https://www.flickr.com/photos/metabunk/sets/72157644020551293/


1988: Exploring the Sky By Day, Page 49
https://www.flickr.com/photos/metabunk/sets/72157643850292503/


1981: Peterson Field Guide to the Atmosphere, page 137
http://www.flickr.com/photos/metabunk/sets/72157641675780313/


1972: Clouds of the World, page 130
https://www.flickr.com/photos/metabunk/sets/72157641669574294/


1969: Clouds and Weather. Page 28
https://www.flickr.com/photos/metabunk/sets/72157641629656855/


1957: Cloud Study: A pictorial Guide, page 79
https://www.metabunk.org/sk/1957CloudstudyapictorialguideOCR.pdf



1943 - Cloud Reading For Pilots, page 73
http://www.flickr.com/photos/metabunk/sets/72157642316592915/


The above are simply the books I personally own. There are many other books that can be found in scanned form on the internet:

1983: Encyclopedia Britannica:
http://books.google.com/books?id=SBM8AAAAMAAJ&q=contrails "last for several hours"


1975 International Cloud Atlas:
http://library.wmo.int/pmb_ged/wmo_407_en-v1.pdf


1946, Brewer, Condensation Trails: Weather, June 1946
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/media/pdf/c/3/1946_Brewer_condensation_trails.pdf
So that's all still correct information?
 
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