Debunked: Executive Order 13575 - Establishment of the White House Rural Council

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
No it's not. Can you quote anything from the Sierra Club that says they want us to live at 500 units per acre?
The concept of megacities has been around for decades . . . the idea is to sequester humans into high density compounds and return the ecosystem to wilderness . . . minimizing human impact on the earth . . . this transformation can only evolve by removing land ownership via law, force or economic persuasion . . . my guess some will have to be by seizure. . .

http://www.matttaylor.com/public/MegaCities.htm

http://www.matttaylor.com/public/graphics2/MegaCity2.jpeg
http://www.matttaylor.com/public/graphics2/BchMegaCity.jpeg
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
But where do the Sierra Club say that's what they want?
Mick . . . Birds of a feather . . . Club of Rome, National Wildlife Foundation, Sierra Club, Earth Day, Green Peace . . . I was involved with most . . . went to the lectures, went to the demonstrations, my Undergrad is Zoology with minor in ecology and anthropology, One Grad degree is in Environmental Science . . . been there, done that, got the tee shirt . . . we discussed the strategies of how to reclaim the Earth . . . Treaty, Law, Economic Coercion . . . restricting land use via endangered species, wet lands and wilderness land grabs removing private property use rights . . . and so forth . . . in the late 1960s and early 1970s that is . . .
 

MikeC

Closed Account
so they do not actually say it - it is something you have made up because you never actually said it in the 1960's and 70's either??:confused::confused:
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
so they do not actually say it - it is something you have made up because you never actually said it in the 1960's and 70's either??:confused::confused:
???? are you saying I did not participate in such discussions, debates, and activities ???

One of my Professors . . .

 

MikeC

Closed Account
No - I am trying to understand where the 500/acre comes from - you have not provided a source from Sierra Club, and you have not said you discussed it in your "activist" (?) days way back when - and with your usual rambling it seems to me that you have used those two aspects of this discussion as if they were proof the 500/acre is true.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
No - I am trying to understand where the 500 acres comes from - you have not provided a source from Sierra Club, and you have not said you discussed it in your "activist" (?) days way back when - and with your usual rambling it seems to me that you have used those two aspects of this discussion as if they were proof the 500 acres is true.
You are right I don't know about the 500 per land unit and should not have commented . . . however, such policies are a logical extension in principle of what the same intellectuals have been espousing for decades . . .

 

MikeC

Closed Account
It is YOUR "logical progression" - but yuo have no right to say it is what they say or think on that basis.

TBH 500 households per acre seems a bit packed - in these parts 1/4 acre section has long been the aspiratinoal goal - my parents' place was 1/3rd acre.......before they subdivided and before the 2011 earthquake wrecked it :(
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
It is YOUR "logical progression" - but yuo have no right to say it is what they say or think on that basis.

TBH 500 households per acre seems a bit packed - in these parts 1/4 acre section has long been the aspiratinoal goal - my parents' place was 1/3rd acre.......before they subdivided and before the 2011 earthquake wrecked it :(
I never said that is what they said . . . what I said was relevant and on point . . . everything I said was clearly my opinion and it is a logical extension of what they have represented over the decades . . . what is your problem??????!?? I will comment on what I wish . . . .
 

MikeC

Closed Account
You strongly implied it so it was clearly what you thought and were trying to persuagde others is true.

I didnt' say anything was NOT your opinion - in fact I strongly implied that is exactly what it is, and not fact at all!! Nor did I say you canot comment on anything - so why introduce those as if they were relevant??

Why am I not surprised that you are trying to move the goalposts again, whining about being criticised in order to avoid an issue that you have been caught out on??
 

Gunguy45

Senior Member.
"An acre is only slightly over 200 feet square"
?

Uhhhh that kind of makes that source a bit suspect don't you think? More like 43,560 SF. Or did they mean 200' on a side? Thats closer..but still not right.


Not that I would want to live there....but a 20 story apartment building with 10 apartments per floor each at about 4300SF and 6 people living in each one is 1200 people on a 1 acre plot. Thats right on the number of your source. Reduce the size of apartments and decrease the number of bodies...still works out the same. (Unless my math is messed up) I dunno about most people....but 4300SF for 6 bodies (or 2150 for 3) is about twice what I ever lived in when I was younger.
 

muttkat

Banned
Banned
So you believe improving recreational pathways is a fascist UN federal plot because the project is controlled by a non-elected committee?

The members of the Aransas Pathway Project are not elected, that much is true.

BUT...

The APP committee was assembled and serves under the authority of Aransas County Commissioners' Court. The four commissioners of the court are elected and serve along side the county judge. So, although the members of the Aransas Pathway Project steering commitee are not elected, they are given the power to oversee the project by elected county officials.

The APP project is controlled by local government.


Here's a description of the Aransas Pathway Project:
http://www.aransaspathways.com/support-aransas-pathways-rockport.php

Here's the structure and members of the court appointed steering committee:
http://www.aransaspathways.com/committee-aransas-pathways-rockport.php

Here are the elected members of the commissioners court:
http://www.aransascountytx.gov/commissioners/

You can call it a fascist land grab if you want. Do you think the US, UN govt is gonna come out and say we want you out of the rural areas off your private property right now? We be having a war. Actually that would be better so the public could see whats really going on.

You said right there: " The members of the Aransas Pathway Project are not elected, that much is true. " Neither are the rest of the bunch throughout the nation

You see those little itty bitty black dots, thats where humans are suppose to live. Where I live the area is RED, for NO HUMAN USE.

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message878048/pg1

Green Corridor Project- Identify all publicly owned lands and ACQUIRE CONNECTING PARCELS {Peoples Private Property} {thru eminent domain} in critical habitat areas and drainages for public use and preservation to circle the county with trails, connecting to historical and birding sites and be an asset to promote “SMART GROWTH” LAND MANAGEMENT {UN Agenda 21}in a rapidly developing Aransas County - partnership with Historical Commission and Aransas Bird and Nature Club.



Heres a part of the Florida Story:
Harvey Ruvin, Miami Dade Clerk of the Court, was Vice Chair of the Executive Committee of ICLEI, A NON ELECTED POSITION. . He is also CHAIR of the County's CLIMATE CHANGE Advisory Task Force (CCATC). He, with the Mayor of Miami Dade County appoints the Financial Director. HHe has the power and contacts to help implement United Nations Agenda 21 policies that take people's rights away in the name of the "environment." Pam Evans says, "Miami Dade County is run by a government that is proud to be a MODEL CITY for ICLEI - a UNITED NATIONS program IMPLEMENTED through LOCAL town councils, planners, mayors...."

http://www.freedomadvocates.org/articles/private_property/the_florida_story_20110309431/

Local govts have opted out of ICLEI, Agenda 21 because they found out what Agenda 21 is all about:

http://whatisagenda21.net/iclei.htm

Santa Cruz county residents went to court:

http://www.freedomadvocates.org/art...y_owners_beat_county_and_more..._20110504443/

Various cities have thrown these UN guys out.

http://www.freedomadvocates.org/articles/illegitimate_government/iclei_-

_the_good%2c_the_bad_and_the_ugly_20110215429/

http://www.freedomadvocates.org/art..._conspiracy_and_that's_no_theory_20100820423/

http://www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com/

Last but not less: You're paying for the United Nations program with your tax dollars.
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
You can call it a fascist land grab if you want.

I'm not. I'm asking if perhaps you are?

Do you think the US, UN govt is gonna come out and say we want you out of the rural areas off your private property right now?

I don't know. I'm trying to understand why you claim the UN is stealing your land.

You said right there: " The members of the Aransas Pathway Project are not elected, that much is true. " Neither are the rest of the bunch throughout the nation. You see those little itty bitty black dots...

Slow down. Let's try to focus on the Aransas Pathway Project. You said this project is an example of the UN taking away your property rights or land or something...

The members of the Aransas Pathway Project steering committee are appointed by the elected officials of the commissioners court. The Aransas Pathway Project is controlled by local government. Here's one of the guys from the local government. The 2nd precinct commissioner is Leslie "Bubba" Casterline. He's one of four elected commissioners that set up the Aransas Pathway Project to be run by the non elected steering committee.

Are you saying Bubba is a puppet of the UN?

casterline.png
 

muttkat

Banned
Banned
No - I am trying to understand where the 500/acre comes from - you have not provided a source from Sierra Club, and you have not said you discussed it in your "activist" (?) days way back when - and with your usual rambling it seems to me that you have used those two aspects of this discussion as if they were proof the 500/acre is true.

I've got my ramblings and you have your opinions:

http://www.sierraclub.org/sprawl/density/summary.asp
 

muttkat

Banned
Banned
I'm not. I'm asking if perhaps you are?



I don't know. I'm trying to understand why you claim the UN is stealing your land.



Slow down. Let's try to focus on the Aransas Pathway Project. You said this project is an example of the UN taking away your property rights are land or something.

The members of the Aransas Pathway Project steering committee are appointed by the elected officials of the commissioners court. The Aransas Pathway Project is controlled by local government. Here's one of the guys from the local government. The 2nd precinct commissioner is Leslie "Bubba" Casterline. He's one of four elected commissioners that set up the Aransas Pathway Project to be run by the non elected steering committee.

Are you saying Bubba is a puppet of the UN?

casterline.png

Bubba may or may not know that this has to do with the UN & when the voters voted for this they didn't know that this is really all about. Now that you've checked out Bubba you can go to the Green Corridor section and see the words "Smart Growth" on it. On the Florida story their Bubbas knew that their ICLEI program was associated with the UN. In other counties their Bubbas were informed by the citizens and they threw this UN program out & in other counties they sued their Bubba's.
 

muttkat

Banned
Banned
Bubba may or may not know that this has to do with the UN & when the voters voted for this they didn't know that this is really all about. Now that you've checked out Bubba you can go to the Green Corridor section and see the words "Smart Growth" on it. On the Florida story their Bubbas knew that their ICLEI program was associated with the UN. In other counties their Bubbas were informed by the citizens and they threw this UN program out & in other counties they sued their Bubba's.

PS Go to the freedom advocates site and maybe you'll get it.
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
Bubba may or may not know that this has to do with the UN & when the voters voted for this they didn't know that this is really all about.

How do you know it has ANYTHING to do with the UN? How do you know the UN is involved in the Aransas Pathway Project?
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
The strategies to return private land to wilderness areas are well studied and is an agenda promoted by the environmentalists . . . you either agree with it or not . . . local politicians are either in agreement, ignorant, are being paid or coerced into cooperating . . . divide and conquer, public apathy and ignorance is their friend . . .
 
J

Joe

Guest
So far I have 2 county commissioners against it out of 5 . Tomorrow we put on the pressure , I passed out 250 flyers at our local Tea Party . hope we can fill the commissioners chambers against it . If we want to improve our community it should only be at the local level Period ! We need to throw the UN out of New York and America .
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
PS Go to the freedom advocates site and maybe you'll get it.

Does that website have evidence that the UN is controlling the Aransas Pathway Project? Where exactly?

BTW, how much private land is being expropriated for the Aransas Pathway Project?
 

MikeC

Closed Account
I've got my ramblings and you have your opinions:

http://www.sierraclub.org/sprawl/density/summary.asp

I wasn't talking about your ramblings - you don't ramble - you scream and shout to no disernable point at all.

That site calculates various impacts from high density housing vs low density housing - the figures look plausible to me - are you saying they are wrong?

Of course the site only looks at some aspects - for example it does not look at how much concrete is required, or where the sewerage is going to be processed....but hte figures it does give look reasonable - if you live in high density housing you are less likely to have a car, there aer less footpaths, etc.

What is your point?
 

muttkat

Banned
Banned
So far I have 2 county commissioners against it out of 5 . Tomorrow we put on the pressure , I passed out 250 flyers at our local Tea Party . hope we can fill the commissioners chambers against it . If we want to improve our community it should only be at the local level Period ! We need to throw the UN out of New York and America .


Did you make your own flyers? I've got a flyer typed up & forum but haven't passed out the flyers yet.
 

muttkat

Banned
Banned
I wasn't talking about your ramblings - you don't ramble - you scream and shout to no disernable point at all.

That site calculates various impacts from high density housing vs low density housing - the figures look plausible to me - are you saying they are wrong?

Of course the site only looks at some aspects - for example it does not look at how much concrete is required, or where the sewerage is going to be processed....but hte figures it does give look reasonable - if you live in high density housing you are less likely to have a car, there aer less footpaths, etc.

What is your point?

Now I don't ramble now I shout with no discernable point at all? Well make up your mind. Well thats your opinion again.

http://www.demographia.com/db-sierra20010618.pdf

http://www.demographia.com/db-sierra20010620.pdf
 

muttkat

Banned
Banned
So the answer is no. You don't have evidence the UN has subverted the commissioners court or the steering committee in an attempt to build duck ponds in Corpus Christi Texas.

Bubba may or may not know that this has to do with the UN & when the voters voted for this they didn't know that this is really all about. Now that you've checked out Bubba you can go to the Green Corridor section and see the words "Smart Growth" on it. On the Florida story their Bubbas knew that their ICLEI program was associated with the UN. In other counties their Bubbas were informed by the citizens and they threw this UN program out & in other counties they sued their Bubba's.

http://ntl.bts.gov/files/SustainabilityBibliographyFinal.pdf

Subverted the commissioners court? I don't know what the hell they're doing in Corpus Christi. I don't care what they're doing in CC. Every county or region has its own program so go ahead and search your duck ponds if you want to. Aransas Pathways is for Aransas County. CC is in Nueces county.
Yes I have the evidence. I've provided evidence if you haven't gotten it....well thats your problem. Smart Growth & Sustainable Development, Agenda 21 correlate to the same thing and originate from the UN.

http://www.uncsd2012.org/rio20/ Heres a site that has the words UN and sustainable development together.
 

muttkat

Banned
Banned
Can you explain exactly what those two links are supposed to demonstrate?

The other site was not the correct site so I'm put down the other sites.

What you said: That site calculates various impacts from high density housing vs low density housing - the figures look plausible to me - are you saying they are wrong? Did I say they were wrong?

You stated: No - I am trying to understand where the 500/acre comes from - you have not provided a source from Sierra Club, and you have not said you discussed it in your "activist" (?) days way back when - and with your usual rambling it seems to me that you have used those two aspects of this discussion as if they were proof the 500/acre is true.

I provided the source from the Sierra Club. can you figure that out?

http://www.demographia.com/db-sierraclub500.htm#3

this site links to the other 2 sites......from your 12.01am comment.

Are you even reading the sites? It seems like you are continually jacking with me. Being i have put down 3 articles hopefully you can understand & comprehend the 3. thank you very much.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I've read the sites. They discuss various housing densities. You originally said:

This is how the Sierra Club would like us to live:

http://www.demographia.com/db-sierraclub500.htm

But your link just goes to an out of date density calculator that used 500 as the upper end. There was no suggestion that 500 was ideal or desirable.

So my question is:

A) HOW do the sierra club want us to live
B) WHERE do they currently say this.
 

muttkat

Banned
Banned
Origin of the phrase Sustainable Development:

http://www.uncsd2012.org/history.html

Phrases the UN uses or buzzwords or affiliations:

parnerships-partners

smart growth-smart cities-meters

consensus

grassroots participation

stakeholders-groups

envisioning

life long learning

social justice

ICLEI

total quality management

redevelopment

healthy families, cities,

historic preservation

monitoring & assessment

non govt organizations (NGO's)

rNon pLand trusts

Stewardship----EO 13547 http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...-stewardship-ocean-our-coasts-and-great-lakes

Indigneous populations

social development
 

muttkat

Banned
Banned
Being there seems to be a lack of knowledge about the UN's objectives. (No pun intended) I have put down these quotes as to whats are the opinions of people associated with the UN or their views all in one nice package. As you can see is not all about nature paths and such and thats why I have issues with Sust Dev. Yes the worlds populations need to go down & conservation efforts should be followed but not at the expense of my private property. You of course aren't going to see these comments on Aransas Pathways.


http://www.c3headlines.com/global-warming-quotes-climate-change-quotes.html









 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
That's a random bunch of quotes from a random bunch of people from random times. It's cherry picking, and it's not even very well done. What is supposedly so ominous about this, for example:

 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
And can you even place any of those quotes in context? Quotes without context are pretty meaningless.
 

muttkat

Banned
Banned
That's a random bunch of quotes from a random bunch of people from random times. It's cherry picking, and it's not even very well done. What is supposedly so ominous about this, for example:


These are people comments of people affiliated with the UN but to you its random cherry picking to you, maybe you could go to that site and regroup them for me being I'm not doing it very well. After having to hear about copying and texting large groups from articles from you I didn't put down more quotes. I grouped them into what the environmental policy, distribution of wealth, what they think of humans, abolition of private property. The Bill Gates quote was under the population subheading. Don't worry I wasn't expecting a pat on the back from you. Just trying to show what UN affiliated people think.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Now I don't ramble now I shout with no discernable point at all? Well make up your mind.

where did I ever say you ramble?? :confused:

you have totally missed the actual meaning of what I wrote, and invented something that suits yuorself! :rolleyes:

Well thats your opinion again.

Hey - you got something right! :)


2 copies of the calculator supposed to show what exactly??

Thansk for giving me another data point showing you have no discernable point at all.:D:D
 

muttkat

Banned
Banned
And can you even place any of those quotes in context? Quotes without context are pretty meaningless.

the parts of a discourse that surround a word or passage and can throw light on its meaning 2
: the interrelated conditions in which something exists or occurs : environment, setting <the historical context of the war>
con·text·less adjective
con·tex·tu·al adjective
con·tex·tu·al·ly adverb

The context of those quotes are environment & man & the UN.



http://www.learnersdictionary.com/search/context


http://www.wordcentral.com/cgi-bin/student?book=Student&va=contexthttp://www.wordcentral.com/cgi-bin/student?book=Student&va=context
 

muttkat

Banned
Banned
That's a random bunch of quotes from a random bunch of people from random times. It's cherry picking, and it's not even very well done. What is supposedly so ominous about this, for example:


Reproductive health services--Birth control-Nothing wrong with that

Healthcare--I would think that would be to sustain life longer. Maybe he's talking about death panels. I don't know.

Vaccines: The WHO (UN) gave millions of women tentanus shots in Central, South America & the Phillipines. They kinda forgot to mention it made them sterile.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12346214

Journalist Sues WHO...Vaccines......To Commit Mass Murder

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/07/08/205967.aspx

Nodding Disease: Some are blaming vaccines Others say its a river parasite. Seems to only affect children.

http://www.homeopathyworldcommunity...disease-in-uganda-africa-south-sudan-tanzania

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2011-09-swine-flu-vaccine-linked-narcolepsy.html

Autistic rates have gone up.

Here I picked Private property: Private Property
Quote by Louis Proyect, Columbia University: “The answer to global warming is in the ABOLITION of PRIVATE PROPERTY and production for human need. A socialist world would place an enormous priority on alternative energy sources. This is what ecologically-minded socialists have been exploring for quite some time now.”
Quote by Peter Berle, President of the National Audubon Society: "We reject the idea of private property."

The Wildlands Project wants to return 50% back to the wilderness:

http://www.wildlandsprojectrevealed.org/htm/twp.html
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Pick one. We can discuss one at a time.

A large number of unsourced (and mostly unreliable) quotes out of context means nothing - all it does is demonstrate what you already think, and what you are cherry picking quotes that you think are in line with what your theory is.

But you need to be able to back them up.

So pick one. Just one. Let's figure out what it means. Then when we agree on that one, let's move on to the next.

Otherwise you are just spamming.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Reproductive health services--Birth control-Nothing wrong with that

Healthcare--I would think that would be to sustain life longer. Maybe he's talking about death panels. I don't know.

Why don't you make some effort to find out how it is that vaccines and healthcare might allow a choice to lower birthrates due to lower child morality, hence lowering the population - it's not actually secret.....

Vaccines: The WHO (UN) gave millions of women tentanus shots in Central, South America & the Phillipines. They kinda forgot to mention it made them sterile.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12346214

Because it doesn't - that article you quote is only a request for an investigation into reports that tetanus shots contained an anti-fertility drug.

While hCG was found in some vaccines there has been no actual study that shows that it had any effect on fertility whatsoever.

Journalist Sues WHO...Vaccines......To Commit Mass Murder

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/07/08/205967.aspx

And were his accusations actually ever confirmed??

Even conspiracy sites are acknowledging that Jane Burgermeister is a fraud...if she actually exists at all.

yada yada yada blah blah blah

Why don't you do just a small amount of research into any of these instead of just repeating all the same ol' conspiracy claims??
 

Charlie Primero

Active Member
A large number of unsourced (and mostly unreliable) quotes out of context means nothing -

That is not true. The quotes cite the author and the organization the author represents. They provide a good overview of goals and ideology of speakers. They highlight the problems under discussion regarding the agenda of Agenda 21. Characterizing them as "spamming" is not only unfair Mick, it's a bit mean-spirited considering your position of ultimate control in the debate.
 
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