Claim: A Mariupol hospital was hiding members of the Azov Battalion, and other claims by Russia

[TheNZThrower]

According to Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and General Igor Konashenkov, the Mariupol children's hospital that has been bombed by the Russians was housing members of the ultranationalist/neo-nazi Azov Battalion:

A few days ago, at a UN Security Council meeting, the Russian delegation presented factual information that this maternity hospital had long been taken over by the Azov battalion and other radicals and that all the women in labour, all the nurses and in general all the staff had been told to leave it. It was a base of the ultra-radical Azov battalion
- Lavrov

"The servicemen of the Donetsk People's Republic continue tightening their encirclement of Mariupol. Militants of the Azov and Aidar nationalist battalions are delivering fire on the people's militia units that have entered the city from positions equipped in schools, hospitals, maternity homes and kindergartens,"

- Konashenkov

However, no evidence beyond this is given, and none of the video footage from either the Associated Press (timestamps: 0:31-0:37, 0:41-1:01, 1:14-1:18), or from ABC affiliate WFAA (timestamps: 0:39-0:44, 1:09-1:16, 1:32-1:50) of any soldiers backs up their case. So take what the Russians have to say with a bucketful of salt.

That's not all though. The Russian embassy also claims that one of the pregnant women at the hospital is a crisis actor, who is allegedly this Instagram model:

Here are two more images of the left and right woman in the tweet for comparison:

However, even if we accept the premise that the two women in the tweet are the same, it does not follow that she must be a crisis actor. As the instagram model was based in Mariupol, the city where the hospital is located, it just as well could be the case that she was at the hospital for her pregnancy when it was bombed as she is clearly pregnant as of her last post.

But we don't even need to go that far, as the woman in question, Marianna Vishegirskaya, has recently gave birth to her child and has been confirmed to be the same person as the Instagram model per the ABC:

While Ms Vishegirskaya is a Ukrainian blogger in Mariupol who posts about skin care, make-up and cosmetics, there is no evidence that she was anything but a patient at the hospital.

She has posted multiple photos and videos on Instagram documenting her pregnancy in the past few months.

This means that per Occam's Razor, she is a Instagram model who got caught in a bomb blast at a hospital in her home town.

 

[TheNZThrower]

As for the other pregnant woman caught in the blast, the Russian embassy and certain online pro-Russian spaces are claiming that this pregnant woman on a stretcher:

Is somehow Vishegirskaya. However, a closer look of her face in this AP video (timestamp 2:17):

Plus another shot of Vishegirskaya from the same video (timestamp: 3:10):

and from the ABC article mentioned prior:

Demonstrate this allegation to be unfounded. For starters, the woman on the stretcher appears to be slightly chubbier than Vishegirskaya, and is paler than her. Any further comments on any notable differences would be welcome.

Some Communist Redditors are claiming that someone is cooking something to the left of Vishegirskaya in the middle photo, and that the man to her left is smiling, as based upon the presence of two smoking pots on rubble to her left:

Also if you see the first picture there were two guys cooking also and also one of them is laughing (smiling)

This is similar to the Sandy Hook denial tactic of claiming that since some of the parents were smiling, it must mean that the entire event was some false flag. Both cases ignore that people going through a loss can still exhibit a wide range of emotions, and the man could be responding to an uneasy joke for all we could know. Rather than seeking to ask genuine questions about any of these apparent anomalies and details in the photo, the people claiming a false flag jump to their pet conclusions instead for the purposes of validating their preexisting beliefs.

Anyways, if you guys have anything more to contribute, please respond.

 

[Mendel]

View attachment 50177
I've been wondering about the arm patches of the men carrying the stretcher (one carries a gun), but they may be police or military police?

 

[TheNZThrower]

View attachment 50177
I've been wondering about the arm patches of the men carrying the stretcher (one carries a gun), but they may be police or military police?
View attachment 50188

Though according to Wikipedia, many governments around the world still use the fasces symbol and variants thereof, including Russia:

 

[TheNZThrower]

Regarding the picture of Vishegirskaya at the bomb site with the pots, what do you think is the explanation of what they are, or why the man in the picture appears to be smiling Mendel?

 

[Mendel]

Regarding the picture of Vishegirskaya at the bomb site with the pots, what do you think is the explanation of what they are, or why the man in the picture appears to be smiling Mendel?

You are asking me to speculate; I don't have information.

People can be relieved for various reasons in/after a crisis, especially when seeing survivors.

My first thought about the pots is that they're brewing tea to warm up the helpers and evacuees, you can see snow and people's breaths in some of the pictures. I don't expect they're sterilizing equipment or cloths, although V.'s face looks somewhat cleaner than when she's coming down the stairs.

Spoiler: Comparison

If this was all staged, surely any supply for the "actors" would be set up behind the scenes, and not be on camera (or edited out).


Source: https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1503263091542433795

 

[Mendel]

Other patches in evidence in the AP footage, I couldn't find any matching units. It's possible some international volunteers are involved?

Panther head with spear or rocket:

Punisher?

Yellow dragon/serpent on green field, Ukraine flag:

 

[Raymond]

Some Communist Redditors are claiming that someone is cooking something to the left of Vishegirskaya in the middle photo, and that the man to her left is smiling

What smile? Image extracted from 1080p and enlarged 4 times

 

[deirdre]

"You might have seen this shocking photo from Mariupol before. It was just reported that the woman didn't survive. Neither did her unborn child."

yes. her death throws are all over this site, despite her deserving more respect and not being one of the 2 pictures the embassy was talking about. There are 2 viral pictures of the influencer, one in pajamas and one which her identifying pajamas are covered up.

and yes, @TheNZThrower people tend to be paler, than svelt instagram influencers, when their sides are ripped open and they are bleeding out.

although V.'s face looks somewhat cleaner than when she's coming down the stairs.

it's not. the photo is from the other side.

I don't expect they're sterilizing equipment or cloths,

why? it's a maternity hospital, shelling victim hospital and bomb shelter (since March 2), i would hope they are sterilizing their equipment.

 

[Mendel]

The Russian embassy also claims that

Article:

Evgeniy Maloletka is a Ukrainian freelance photojournalist based in Kiev, Ukraine, originally from the city of Berdyansk, the Zaporizhya region in the eastern Ukraine. [...]
Maloletka was deeply involved in the coverage of the Ukrainian revolution since the beginning before moving to cover the conflicts in Crimea and eastern Ukraine for various international media.

Source: https://www.evgenymaloletka.com/about

I found an article from a German newspaper that includes pictures by Maloletka showing the hospital before the blast. Example:

Article:

Source: https://www.sueddeutsche.de/projekte/artikel/politik/ukraine-angriff-auf-das-kinderkrankenhaus-von-mariupol-e380244/

The article stated that the maternity clinic helped treat the wounded ever since Mariupol was attacked.

It makes perfect sense for Maloletka to be there as soon as he could after the attack, to take pictures.

 

[Woolery]

Today's NYT Daily podcast touches briefly on the photos at the podcast's conclusion. The podcast leaves the listener with the impression, without directly stating it, that the Russian claims of a crisis actress playing "several of the pregnant women" are likely false. Twitter apparently removed the Russian embassy tweets on the subject. The podcast doesn't mention the possibility that the photos could actually be of the actress but that the actress could still actually be a victim of the bombing (which certainly appears to be a possibility worth considering).

 

[FatPhil]

The Beeb is running a story with the headline "Ukraine war: Pregnant woman and baby die after hospital shelled", and the photo from #3 here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60734706
[EDIT: remove redundant stuff]

 

[TheNZThrower]

Speaking of something, there is this video on Reddit claiming that Ukrainian soldiers are hiding in apartment blocks. The original video is from a channel called WarGonzo. This channel is based in Russia per their channel description, and their video titles and descriptions are also in Russian.

The title of the original video is ''ПТУРщики «Азова» на крышах многоэтажек Мариуполя'', which means ''ATGM "Azov" on the roofs of high-rise buildings in Mariupol'' when fed through google translate. An ATGM refers to an anti tank missile in case you needed a primer. Here is the soldier in the video:

Now the problem is that the video is too grainy to make out whether the soldier is an Azov member, as he could be a member of another battalion of the National Guard, or of the military proper. Hence claims that he is an Azov member is conjecture at best.

The video in question also shows what appears to be some military vehicles near the apartment:

So is this legally iffy? Does this render the apartments a valid military target? Can anyone confirm what the soldier is holding?

 

[captancourgette]

View attachment 50200
What smile? Image extracted from 1080p and enlarged 4 times

Yes its impossible to make out what hes doing, so how one comes to the conclusion that they are smiling escapes me

Not to say ppl dont smile or laugh in stressful situations, its a way of coping with the situation

 

[Mendel]

The title of the original video is ''ПТУРщики «Азова» на крышах многоэтажек Мариуполя'', which means ''ATGM "Azov" on the roofs of high-rise buildings in Mariupol'' when fed through google translate. An ATGM refers to an anti tank missile in case you needed a primer.

So is this legally iffy? Does this render the apartments a valid military target? Can anyone confirm what the soldier is holding?

The soldier is using a rocket launcher, and the placement is such that it can attack ground targets. There's no reason to doubt that it's an ATGM.

The issue of legality has come up in the other thread, I've quoted the ICRC:

The principle of proportionality is codified in Article 51(5)(b) of Protocol I of 8 June 1977 additional to the Geneva Conventions (AP I). It prohibits attacks "which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated".

I don't know much about international criminal law, but it seems to me a tank cannon shot at the position would be proportionate (even though it may kill civilians on the upper floor), while dropping a 1000 kg bomb next to the building (as happened in Mariupol, see above) would not.

A hospital full of injured enemy soldiers is also protected.

 

[TheNZThrower]

It appears that I have found the original source for the claim that the hospital had Azov members was this article from Russian news site lenta.ru.

The relevant section, translated, goes as follows:

There are always human tragedies behind the numbers. A man walks by the tents where refugees are taken. He is on edge and does not let go of the phone, his face shows that he has not been without sleep for several days. His name is Igor, he spent about a day on the road to get to Bezymennoe from the Crimea . He constantly approaches the military, employees of the Ministry of Emergency Situations, asking to see the lists to find out if his elderly parents were able to evacuate from Mariupol. He is trying to go along with the soldiers towards the front line, closer to the city.

Igor said that in the last days of February, people in uniform came to the maternity hospital where his mother works. He does not know whether they were fighters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine or the nationalist battalion "Azov" ( banned in the Russian Federation ). The military knocked down all the locks, dispersed the staff of the maternity hospital, and set up firing points in the building in order, as they explained to the doctors, to prepare the "fortress of Mariupol" for defense. The reaction of the military to objections is standard: blows with rifle butts, shooting into the air.

So as the news site is Russian, and as Russia has a habit of being one of the worst countries for press freedom - ranking 150th out of 180 countries in the press freedom index - I already suspect something fishy as this indicates that the Russian state tends to actively censor opposing views.

If we look at lenta.ru themselves, they're owned by a company called Rambler as of 2014, which is owned by Sberbank, a bank majority owned by the Russian Government. This already renders anything claimed by lenta.ru suspect. But what seals the deal in is the fact that per Reporters Without Borders, lenta.ru kicked off a reporter for interviewing a Ukrainian ultranationalist, and replaced them with a pro-kremlin journalist after a warning from Roskomnadzor, a Russian government agency.

Now if anyone can verify or falsify any of lenta.ru's allegations, then that would be nice. But for now, their claims remain suspect.

 

[Woolery]

Thanks for looking into it.

It appears that I have found the original source for the claim that the hospital had Azov members was this article from Russian news site lenta.ru.The relevant section, translated, goes as follows:

There are always human tragedies behind the numbers. A man walks by the tents where refugees are taken. He is on edge and does not let go of the phone, his face shows that he has not been without sleep for several days. His name is Igor, he spent about a day on the road to get to Bezymennoe from the Crimea. He constantly approaches the military, employees of the Ministry of Emergency Situations, asking to see the lists to find out if his elderly parents were able to evacuate from Mariupol. He is trying to go along with the soldiers towards the front line, closer to the city.

Igor said that in the last days of February, people in uniform came to the maternity hospital where his mother works. He does not know whether they were fighters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine or the nationalist battalion "Azov" ( banned in the Russian Federation ). The military knocked down all the locks, dispersed the staff of the maternity hospital, and set up firing points in the building in order, as they explained to the doctors, to prepare the "fortress of Mariupol" for defense. The reaction of the military to objections is standard: blows with rifle butts, shooting into the air.

Unfortunately the story lacks verifiable attribution. Igor's last name is withheld and he allegedly knows everything he knows secondhand from possible conversations with his unnamed mother who works at the hospital. This bit:

He does not know whether they were fighters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine or the nationalist battalion "Azov" ( banned in the Russian Federation )

makes it sounds like there was no reason to actually believe they were Azov (given the limited context of your excerpt), but the reporter/editor felt strangely compelled to mention the possibility. An honest journalist just leaves this sentence out.

We have one effectively anonymous source getting secondhand information from another anonymous source who unverifiably worked at the hospital. And even if the sources were verifiable there's no evidence Azov was involved. It's proof of nothing.

But for now, their claims remain suspect.

Yes, to put it lightly.

 

[deirdre]

Article:

"On March 7 or 6, I don't remember exactly now, but at a meeting of the UN Security Council, facts were presented by our delegation about that this maternity hospital was seized long ago by the Azov Battalion and other radicals," Lavrov said, according to the state-run RIA Novosti news agency.

"All the women in labor, all the nurses, and all the attendants were expelled."

Source: https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-says-mariupol-maternity-hospital-militia-base-no-evidence-2022-3

also March 10th

Article:

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov confirmed that Russia deliberately bombed a maternity hospital in Mariupol because there were allegedly "ultra-radicals".

This was stated by the head of the Russian foreign Ministry during a briefing.

"It was the base of the ultra-radical battalion "Azov". This data was presented three days ago. Therefore, draw conclusions yourself," the Foreign Minister said.

Source: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:K-sZm0icXwEJ:https://prm.ua/lavrov-pidtverdyv-shcho-rosiia-navmysno-rozbombyla-polohovyy-budynok-u-mariupoli/+&cd=18&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Now the lent.ru article was published like 2 mins after March 7th. so it's possible as Igor was talking to all those military guys in his travel spreading his story from his mom, the military decided to just believe some random guy and bomb the place.

i dont see anything listed for March 6th.

Article:

March 7th
Alarmed by Targeted Attacks on Civilians Fleeing Violence, Massive Humanitarian Crisis in Ukraine, Speakers Briefing Security Council Reiterate Strong Calls to End Conflict
Alarmed by spreading violence in Ukraine, targeted attacks on civilians, ineffective humanitarian corridors and spiralling risks, briefers and delegates alike called for decisive action to end the conflict, as the Security Council held its seventh meeting in two weeks related to the unfolding situation.

Source: https://www.un.org/press/en/content/security-council?page=1

and the meeting was "PM"

https://www.un.org/press/en/2022/sc14823.doc.htm

 

[Mendel]

"On March 7 or 6, I don't remember exactly now, but at a meeting of the UN Security Council, facts were presented by our delegation about that this maternity hospital was seized long ago by the Azov Battalion and other radicals," Lavrov said, according to the state-run RIA Novosti news agency.

"All the women in labor, all the nurses, and all the attendants were expelled."

From the Security Council meeting record of March 7 via https://research.un.org/en/docs/sc/quick/meetings/2022 :

Article:

Local residents said that Ukraine's armed forces forced staff out of a maternity clinic No.1 in Mariupol and then established a firing site in the clinic.

Source: https://undocs.org/en/S/PV.8988

That quote is the full extent. There was no session on March 6th.

 

[BombDr]

Speaking of something, there is this video on Reddit claiming that Ukrainian soldiers are hiding in apartment blocks. The original video is from a channel called WarGonzo. This channel is based in Russia per their channel description, and their video titles and descriptions are also in Russian.

The title of the original video is ''ПТУРщики «Азова» на крышах многоэтажек Мариуполя'', which means ''ATGM "Azov" on the roofs of high-rise buildings in Mariupol'' when fed through google translate. An ATGM refers to an anti tank missile in case you needed a primer. Here is the soldier in the video:
View attachment 50209
Now the problem is that the video is too grainy to make out whether the soldier is an Azov member, as he could be a member of another battalion of the National Guard, or of the military proper. Hence claims that he is an Azov member is conjecture at best.

The video in question also shows what appears to be some military vehicles near the apartment:
View attachment 50210View attachment 50211
So is this legally iffy? Does this render the apartments a valid military target? Can anyone confirm what the soldier is holding?

No, the defender is allowed to defend anything in the city. Russians always claim this is illegal, apart from when they do it. Secondly, no matter what units are involved, the Russians always claim it is Azov.

 

[Mendel]

View attachment 50203

It is quite possible that rescuers and witnesses took the first pictures, if they had a way to charge their phones; but with no connection, how would they send them out?

AP has published a story on their team of journalists who covered Mariupol until they were evacuated on March 15th. I recommend reading it in full.
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-edf7240a9d990e7e3e32f82ca351dede

One bomb at a time, the Russians cut electricity, water, food supplies and finally, crucially, the cell phone, radio and television towers. The few other journalists in the city got out before the last connections were gone and a full blockade settled in.

The absence of information in a blockade accomplishes two goals.

Chaos is the first. People don't know what's going on, and they panic. At first I couldn't understand why Mariupol fell apart so quickly. Now I know it was because of the lack of communication.

Impunity is the second goal. With no information coming out of a city, no pictures of demolished buildings and dying children, the Russian forces could do whatever they wanted. If not for us, there would be nothing.

That's why we took such risks to be able to send the world what we saw, and that's what made Russia angry enough to hunt us down.

I have never, ever felt that breaking the silence was so important.

Associated Press photographer Evgeniy Maloletka points at the smoke rising after an airstrike on a maternity hospital, in Mariupol, Ukraine, March 9, 2022. (AP Photo/Mstyslav Chernov)

On March 9, twin airstrikes shredded the plastic taped over our van's windows. I saw the fireball just a heartbeat before pain pierced my inner ear, my skin, my face.

We watched smoke rise from a maternity hospital. When we arrived, emergency workers were still pulling bloodied pregnant women from the ruins.

Our batteries were almost out of juice, and we had no connection to send the images. Curfew was minutes away. A police officer overheard us talking about how to get news of the hospital bombing out.

"This will change the course of the war," he said. He took us to a power source and an internet connection.

On March 11, in a brief call without details, our editor asked if we could find the women who survived the maternity hospital airstrike to prove their existence. I realized the footage must have been powerful enough to provoke a response from the Russian government.

We found them at a hospital on the front line, some with babies and others in labor. We also learned that one woman had lost her baby and then her own life.

We went up to the 7th floor to send the video from the tenuous Internet link. From there, I watched as tank after tank rolled up alongside the hospital compound, each marked with the letter Z that had become the Russian emblem for the war.

We were surrounded: Dozens of doctors, hundreds of patients, and us.

We were the last journalists in Mariupol. Now there are none.

 

[captancourgette]

The writing above seems very sensationalist.
Btw I'm now myself in Ukraine now, in the west, Lviv, so if you need something confirmed here perhaps i can do it

 

[FatPhil]

The writing above seems very sensationalist.
Btw I'm now myself in Ukraine now, in the west, Lviv, so if you need something confirmed here perhaps i can do it

What charity should I make my next donation to? I'm trying to do the rounds, rather than focus on just one. "charity" includes donations to military goals. I have a friend here who sent 150000 rounds of ammunition down to Ukraine weeks ago - I've told him next time he's contributing to a convoy I'll happily chip in.

Town is now about 3% Ukrainian, since the refugees started appearing, up from about 1%, which has got both the Putin Party (not its real name), and the Hitler Party (also not its real name) in a real tizz, as one group (guess!) says we're all nazis picking on Russian speakers, and other (guess!) doesn't want any more immigrants! Ahh, the joys of democracy - they account for about 40% of the vote. :-o

Keep safe.

 

[captancourgette]

What charity should I make my next donation to

No idea mate, red cross perhaps, just got back from the railway giving tea,coffee and making sandwiches to the refugees. The most important thing we need now is too close the skies

 

[TheNZThrower]

Hi everyone! It appears that the pregnant woman Vishegirskaya has reappeared in this interview. Can anyone confirm the veracity of the interview? Is she under duress or coercion?

 

[BombDr]

Hi everyone! It appears that the pregnant woman Vishegirskaya has reappeared in this interview. Can anyone confirm the veracity of the interview? Is she under duress or coercion?

Where is the interview and who is asking the questions?

 

[TheNZThrower]

Where is the interview and who is asking the questions?

Here is the fuller version of the interview. The interviewer is speaking Russian, so it appears to be at the very least somewhere in any of the Russian speaking portions of Ukraine, if not in a Russian or separatist controlled region of Ukraine.

 

[Mendel]

Article:

A Russian government-linked Twitter account on Friday shared an interview with Marianna Vishegirskaya, in which the new mother says the hospital was not hit by an airstrike last month and that she told AP journalists she did not want to be filmed — assertions that are directly contradicted by AP reporting.

In the interview, conducted by Russian blogger Denis Seleznev and filmed by Kristina Melnikova, Vishegirskaya is asked to provide details about what occurred at the hospital on March 9, the day of the bombing. It is not clear where Vishegirskaya is, or under what conditions the interview was filmed.

In the new videos, Vishegirskaya says those huddled in the basement of the hospital after the attack believed the explosions were caused by "shelling," not an airstrike, because "no one" heard sounds that would indicate that bombs were dropped from planes.

But eyewitness accounts and video from AP journalists in Mariupol lays out evidence of an airstrike, including the sound of an airplane before the blast, a crater outside the hospital that went at least two stories deep and interviews with a police officer and a soldier at the scene who both referred to the attack as an "airstrike."

At the time of the strike, AP reporters were in another part of Mariupol. They distinctly heard a plane and then two explosions. They went to the 12th floor of a nearby building where they filmed two large plumes of smoke in the distance in the direction of the hospital. It then took them about 25 minutes to get to the hospital.

"By that time you would hear an airplane almost every 10, 15 minutes, and there would be airstrikes all around the city," AP video journalist Mstyslav Chernov explained in an interview Saturday. "This one was closer to us so we heard it very well."

Chernov said that when airstrikes are happening, the sound of an airplane is followed by the sound of an explosion within seconds. On March 9, he said he heard an airplane and then two bombs immediately after. Vishegirskaya also notes in the interview released Friday that she distinctly heard two blasts.

"We heard the noise of a projectile. Then I personally, instinctively put a blanket on, and then we heard the second projectile," says Vishegirskaya, who speaks in Russian.

Vishegirskaya also says in the video that she repeatedly told AP she did not want to be filmed, but recordings of AP journalists' interactions with her contradict this. Video shows reporters' first encounter with her outside the hospital, where she is wrapped in a blanket and looks directly at the camera.

"How are you?" Chernov asks, and Vishegirskaya replies: "Everything is good. I feel good." Someone off camera says, "Let's go," and she replies, "Yes, let's go please," before entering the building with an emergency worker to collect her belongings.

During the exchange Vishegirskaya is aware she is on camera and does not make any indication that she does not wish to be filmed. AP reporters also said neither she nor her husband ever indicated that they did not consent to being filmed or interviewed when they spoke with the couple March 11, the day after she gave birth.

In video recorded that day, she discussed what she saw and heard at the hospital. The subject of whether it was hit by airstrikes or shelling did not explicitly come up. The only reference that Vishegirskaya made on the matter was that she was not sure where the strike came from.

"I didn't see with my own eyes, from whom it flew, from where, what and which direction. We don't know," she told AP on camera, adding: "There are many rumors, but in fact we can't say anything."

Source: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/ap-ukraine-twitter-moscow-instagram-b2049807.html

Original source: https://apnews.com/article/russia-u...ion-bombings-a39d9438da3c55d691742229cc87b2a0​

Vishegirskaya also confirms that she was not the woman on the stretcher.

Where is the interview and who is asking the questions?

Russian blogger Denis Seleznev is asking the questions. The hospital where she was has been in Russian hands for a while (see my post above where the AP journalists describe Russian tanks outside the hospital mid-March), so she's probably been "evacuated" from Mariupol by the Russians.

Compare:

Article:

Ukraine has accused Russia of forcibly relocating thousands of civilians from Mariupol, the strategic port city devastated by Russian shelling.

Russia is housing an estimated 5,000 at a temporary camp in Bezimenne, east of Mariupol, seen in satellite images.

Ukraine's Deputy Prime Minister Iryna Vereshchuk said 40,000 had been moved from Ukraine to Russian-held territory without any coordination with Kyiv.

A Mariupol refugee, now in Russia, said: "All of us were taken forcibly".

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60894142

 

[TheNZThrower]

Hi guys! This blog is making multiple claims that ''prove'' the bombing of the Mariupol Hospital was staged. Here are some of the claims I stIll struggle with owing to my lack of knowledge in the relevant fields:

• There is no smoke rising from the site of explosion
• There is no dust suspended in the air
• There is a lot of broken glass in the hospital, so there should be people injured by flying glass fragments cutting them, yet there are none.
• There are no traces of blood, dirt, dust, and soot on the faces, hair clothes and blankets of the victims.
• The bleeding in one of the victims does not match how a person who is standing up bleeds, and no blood is on their clothes

Here is the video of what happened yet agan for reference.

 

[BombDr]

Hi guys! This blog is making multiple claims that ''prove'' the bombing of the Mariupol Hospital was staged. Here are some of the claims I stIll struggle with owing to my lack of knowledge in the relevant fields:

• There is no smoke rising from the site of explosion
• There is no dust suspended in the air
• There is a lot of broken glass in the hospital, so there should be people injured by flying glass fragments cutting them, yet there are none.
• There are no traces of blood, dirt, dust, and soot on the faces, hair clothes and blankets of the victims.
• The bleeding in one of the victims does not match how a person who is standing up bleeds, and no blood is on their clothes

Here is the video of what happened yet agan for reference.

All of these are hollywood cliches and its not known what the time difference was between the attack and when the photos/filming took place.

Glass panes often juts shatter in place from explosions due to barometric changes, and the lack of soot, dust and glass injuries is most likely due to the patients taking cover.

 

[TheNZThrower]

All of these are hollywood cliches and its not known what the time difference was between the attack and when the photos/filming took place.

Glass panes often juts shatter in place from explosions due to barometric changes, and the lack of soot, dust and glass injuries is most likely due to the patients taking cover.

The linked blog post also claims that there was an absence of emergency personnel and staff and women with their newborns. However, it appears that the following stills from the video show a man in a white coat (who probably is a hospital staff member):

And another man in a red and gray jacket (who probably is an emergency worker):

Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Mendel]

its not known what the time difference was between the attack and when the photos/filming took place.

Yes, it's known:

At the time of the strike, AP reporters were in another part of Mariupol. They distinctly heard a plane and then two explosions. They went to the 12th floor of a nearby building where they filmed two large plumes of smoke in the distance in the direction of the hospital. It then took them about 25 minutes to get to the hospital.

Content from External Source

Associated Press photographer Evgeniy Maloletka points at the smoke rising after an airstrike on a maternity hospital, in Mariupol, Ukraine, March 9, 2022. (AP Photo/Mstyslav Chernov)

The timing explains the absence of smoke and dust in the AP video.

---

There is a lot of broken glass in the hospital, so there should be people injured by flying glass fragments cutting them, yet there are none

There are lacerations in Mrs. Vishegirskaya's face, see below. The bomb exploded outside the hospital, so people in rooms not facing the explosion might not be affected that much.

---

The linked blog post also claims that there was an absence of emergency personnel and staff and women with their newborns.

The video shows people who can walk. Medical personnel would be attending to people who can't. The newborns would have been exposed as little as possible to the cold outside, making them hard to film. The two men outside wear police insignia, the "grey coat" man also wear insignia, and has a big red patch (blood?) on his sleeve. In this war zone, emergency personnel will not be in the cold with lab coats or high-vis gear.

 

[Mendel]

women with their newborns

I don't know how old the baby in pink is, but the woman in the back may be holding a newborn infant.

The woman on the stretcher has blood-soaked clothes near her hip, and a man with blood on his face is seen exiting the building. The expectation of visible soot and dirt on the faces is misguided.

Spoiler: Full footage, AP videographer's instagram

Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/Ca6ywtxFd-J/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=embed_video_watch_again

 

[Mendel]

This is making me angry, it's deliberate disinformation.
https://www.stalkerzone.org/fake-mariupol-maternity-hospital-bombing/

The faces, hair, outerwear and blankets of the "victims" are without traces of blood, dirt, dust and soot.

Why would they be? The coats were probably stashed in closets. I'm sure I couldn't see "traces" in that video, so why claim absence? And why expect them to be everywhere? The damage is done by the shockwave from the blast, not by flying dirt?

The poses of the models are static, there is no dynamics and haste in the pictures, except for the frame with the stretcher.

It's 30 minutes after the explosion, an orderly evacuation.

There are no streaks all over the face, like a vertically standing person.

False, see screenshot in my previous post.

All the pictures were taken with a professional camera, not with phones. There is not a single picture from the civil services or random eyewitnesses.

We know the photojournalists who took them, see above in this thread. "Random" people don't have access to the Internet (to upload pictures) or to electricity (to charge their phones) because Russia destroyed the infrastructure.

there was not a single woman in labour in the premises of the children's hospital.

A woman "in labor" would not be visible to journalists. Mrs. Vishegirskaya subsequently gave birth, picture above in this thread.

Lies.
These people are brazenly lying, throwing shit at the wall to see what will stick, to further their agenda, denigrating the suffering of fellow humans because it does not fit their world view. It's disgusting me.

 

[captancourgette]

What charity should I make my next donation to? I'm trying to do the rounds, rather than focus on just one. "charity" includes donations to military goals. I have a friend here who sent 150000 rounds of ammunition down to Ukraine weeks ago - I've told him next time he's contributing to a convoy I'll happily chip in.

To FatPhil (or anyone else) I met the guy in Kyiv who is running the refugee effort, He heads the organization of when new refugees come in, giving them psychological help, food etc for a day or so before sending them more westward.
They are wanting people in other countries to accept women/children refugees, so if you know of some organization in your country that could contribute with this send me a PM and I'll put you in contact with him.

 

[TheNZThrower]

This is making me angry, it's deliberate disinformation.
https://www.stalkerzone.org/fake-mariupol-maternity-hospital-bombing/

The faces, hair, outerwear and blankets of the "victims" are without traces of blood, dirt, dust and soot.

Why would they be? The coats were probably stashed in closets. I'm sure I couldn't see "traces" in that video, so why claim absence? And why expect them to be everywhere? The damage is done by the shockwave from the blast, not by flying dirt?

The poses of the models are static, there is no dynamics and haste in the pictures, except for the frame with the stretcher.

It's 30 minutes after the explosion, an orderly evacuation.

There are no streaks all over the face, like a vertically standing person.

False, see screenshot in my previous post.

All the pictures were taken with a professional camera, not with phones. There is not a single picture from the civil services or random eyewitnesses.

We know the photojournalists who took them, see above in this thread. "Normal people" don't have access to the Internet (to upload pictures) or to electricity (to charge their phones) because Russia destroyed the infrastructure.

there was not a single woman in labour in the premises of the children's hospital.

A woman "in labor" would not be visible to journalists. Mrs. Vishegirskaya subsequently gave birth, picture above in this thread.

Lies.
These people are brazenly lying, throwing shit at the wall to see what will stick, to further their agenda, denigrating the suffering of fellow humans because it does not fit their world view. It's disgusting me.

Excellent debunking. Thanks

 

[TheNZThrower]

BTW @Mendel, can you find me a higher resolution image of the other pregnant woman who was killed in the bombing?

 

[Mendel]

BTW @Mendel, can you find me a higher resolution image of the other pregnant woman who was killed in the bombing?

I haven't seen a better image than the one you shared in your first post. I expect the best quality published images should be on the AP website, or on the photographer's social media.

 

[TheNZThrower]

@Mendel, can you also describe any differences in features between Vishegirskaya and the other woman who died? I sense they're different, but can't quite explain why.

 

[deirdre]

I sense they're different, but can't quite explain why.

because they have completely different faces. The woman not only died (on camera...for the media hyenas clickbait) but she lost her unborn baby, let's try to show a modicum of respect.