Debunked: Executive Order 13575 - Establishment of the White House Rural Council

muttkat

Banned
Banned
What Mutkat hasn't realized is that the citizens of her area were not vigilant, active, and diligent enough to mobilize against her opposition like we did in the Ozarks.
We put our county commissioners on notice that they would be removed if they did not vote to oppose the UN Biosphere Reserve plan, and any further such plans.
We proposed the legislation and got it passed in every county we tried. It was a model which cannot be denied or reasoned against. Democracy in action, citizens taking part in the process.

"Stakeholders" having their say, and gettng their way.

She is wasting her time writing online here as much as she has been wasting time she could be organizing in her community. Muttkat, you need to read about what we did and follow the template. It worked and will work again. The citizens run the government, but when you fail in your responsibility to be part of it, you acquiesce to whatever happens as a result. Your enemy is you own inaction, plain and simple.

Word.

You're right, I am wasting too much time on this site. I've been telling myself that but I continue to answer the nitpicking questions by the administrator. Can you point me the way on what ya did & did you have a flyer? I had typed up a page but I'm not happy with it & my roomate put up a forum up like this one. I did get on the Republicans county facebook & due to their reply, I had a feeling that they were somehow associated with Aransas Pathways. They deleted somthing I had previously quoted & tried to make it out like I was lying. Fortunately I hadn't deleted the message they sent me an I put it back on their FB page and made them look like an ass. There was a candidate running for sheriff but he blocked me cause he didn't think my joke was too funny. I just tried looking for his FB page because there were a couple people interested but its not there any more. I got to ask you this. When you go to the commissioners court do you have to state where you live?

If you had a flyer made up send it to my email address @ mutt_kat@yahoo.com or you can publish it here, whichever you prefer. Thanks

Heres the flyer. I was joking with him saying he was a terrorist because it mentions Christians but he didn't think it was funny. He lost the race & got fired from the police force.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/FBIsuspect.html
 

Charlie Primero

Active Member
Interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle

However it does not seem like an entirely clear principle, and has several well founded criticisms. I don't suppose there are examples of societies actually working on this basis? Seems like it's been suggested as an abstract ideal for 2500 year, but does not actually work in practice.

It works wonderfully in practice. The evidence is all around you. I would wager that you personally conduct 99.99% of your life without aggression. I bet very few threats of violence were necessary for you get a job, rent an apartment, engage in sexual intercourse, or buy groceries this month.

There is continuous debate about exactly what is the Non-Aggression Principle and how it works, just as there is disagreement about exactly what is "the perfect bicycle", or "morality", or "war".


I feel like I have free will now.

In that case, exploring the idea of a voluntary society is probably a waste of your time. I'm the opposite. I advocate freedom because I do not feel free, and because I believe a voluntary society would be superior for my children.

Although you don't care, do you somewhat understand why people like me want less government and resist the development of a powerful global state?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
It works wonderfully in practice. The evidence is all around you. I would wager that you personally conduct 99.99% of your life without aggression. I bet very few threats of violence were necessary for you get a job, rent an apartment, engage in sexual intercourse, or buy groceries this month.

There is continuous debate about exactly what is the Non-Aggression Principle and how it works, just as there is disagreement about exactly what is "the perfect bicycle", or "morality", or "war".

I mean how it would work in a broader level. It only works if everyone cooperates.

In that case, exploring the idea of a voluntary society is probably a waste of your time. I'm the opposite. I advocate freedom because I do not feel free, and because I believe a voluntary society would be superior for my children.

Although you don't care, do you somewhat understand why people like me want less government and resist the development of a powerful global state?

Sure, but I think you worry too much. I really don't get what there is for me to "wake up" about, even after listening closely to your arguments. I don't feel oppressed by the government any more than I feel oppressed by the weather. What would change? What limits would be removed?

In what way am I being restricted? What am I prevented from doing?
 

muttkat

Banned
Banned
You're right, I am wasting too much time on this site. I've been telling myself that but I continue to answer the nitpicking questions by the administrator. Can you point me the way on what ya did & did you have a flyer? I had typed up a page but I'm not happy with it & my roomate put up a forum up like this one. I did get on the Republicans county facebook & due to their reply, I had a feeling that they were somehow associated with Aransas Pathways. They deleted somthing I had previously quoted & tried to make it out like I was lying. Fortunately I hadn't deleted the message they sent me an I put it back on their FB page and made them look like an ass. There was a candidate running for sheriff but he blocked me cause he didn't think my joke was too funny. I just tried looking for his FB page because there were a couple people interested but its not there any more. I got to ask you this. When you go to the commissioners court do you have to state where you live?

If you had a flyer made up send it to my email address @ mutt_kat@yahoo.com or you can publish it here, whichever you prefer. Thanks

Heres the flyer. I was joking with him saying he was a terrorist because it mentions Christians but he didn't think it was funny. He lost the race & got fired from the police force.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/FBIsuspect.html

I just noticed you had stated you were going on a long vacation. I'm being noosey but when are you coming back? I did forget to mention that the county had a special election last year for the AP Project & of course the voters voted in favor of it. Hope to hear from you fairly soon.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
:rolleyes:
We operate here under directives which emanate from the White House... The substance of the directives under which we operate is that we shall use our grant making power to alter life in the United States such that we can comfortably be merged with the Soviet Union.

Rowen Gaithner


I think you can safely screatch that one off your list.....:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I'm sorry but I don't understand your question. How would what work?

The Non-Agression Principle. I understand how it's a good maxim for an individual to apply to their action. But how does that extend to a global level? Sure it would be great if everyone were non-aggressive, but since that's not going to happen, then would this not inevitably lead to subjugation of one nation by another? Or would the self-defense exemption cover that?

If so, then how would it work at a national level. You envisage a form of society that cannot use coercion in any form. So there would be no taxes. Everything would be a a voluntary (tax free) exchange of things of value? What about property rights? How does the NAP apply to defending property?
 

Charlie Primero

Active Member
How does the NAP apply to defending property?

The Non-Aggression Principle does not preclude violence used in self-defense or defense of others. The initiation of violence (aggression) is what is immoral. NAP is actually based on Property Rights; which themselves flow from the fact that you own your own body because it is literally impossible for anyone else to reside in it.

For examples of "how it would work at a national/global level", look at any large group of people who cooperate in mutually beneficial relationships without resorting to violence. You are probably a member of several.

But as I said above, although nobody really knows the details of exactly how a non-coercive society would work, we do know that monopolies create high prices and poor products. All the services provided by coercive government monopoly can be provided by the free market at higher quality and lower price; arbitration services, security, charity, education, roads, all of them.

Most people call the political philosophy I advocate Anarcho-Capitalism. There are some good criticisms of that here: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#Criticism_and_response

People like me just want less violence in the world and more fairness. When we see a global Agenda 21 impose even more violence on people with policies that forcibly transfer wealth from poor people to billionaires, we resist it.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
That seems like a rather idiosyncratic wikipedia article, but it does raise several valid concerns.

I am interested in how education can be provided at a lower price by the free market. Isn't it basically free now for a family on a very low income?

I don't think you are doing your argument any favors by saying "we see a global Agenda 21 impose even more violence on people". The majority of the population does not consider the enforcement of the law to be an imposition of violence. Sure, the law is ultimately backed up by threats of jail, but the vast majority of people see that a a perfectly natural thing. Punishment for crimes. Regardless of the validity of this viewpoint, I'm not sure you realize just how alien your phrasing will seem to most people - it just look like you are equating things like wildlife conservation (which most people see as benign, if occasionally overreaching) with things like ethnic cleansing.
 

Charlie Primero

Active Member
I am interested in how education can be provided at a lower price by the free market. Isn't it basically free now for a family on a very low income?

Education is not free for poor people in the U.S. Poor people are taxed at a higher rate than wealthy people. They pay sales taxes when they buy toilet paper or furniture. They pay Property Tax through their landlord. They pay the Inflation Tax, and a score of other levies.

Public Education is a perfect example of a monopoly producing a low-quality, high-cost product. Yearly up-front cost per student in America is about $11,000. Look at the resulting product after twelve years of this. How much grammar, logic, history, and math has the average young adult mastered? I've taught thousands of them in workplace training classes and I can confirm to you, "Very Little".

"Public Education" is actually 12,000 hours of dog obedience training and baby-sitting, especially for lower class kids.

If you gave Apple or Amazon your kid for 12,000 hours plus paid them $120,000, would you be satisfied with the abilities of today's typical 18 year-old? I wouldn't.

In a free market poor people would pay less for a better education. Witness these desperately poor people in India doing it even without a that freedom: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/31/w...ivate-schools-help-fill-a-growing-demand.html


I'm not sure you realize just how alien your phrasing will seem to most people

I actually do. In 2005 a guy on a motorcycle forum proposed the Non-Aggression Principle to me. Voluntary human interactions?! No men with guns collecting taxes?! My wife was an I.R.S. employee back then. I thought it was the most retarded, laughable thing I'd ever heard.

I set out to dismantle the philosophy. I spent the next four years hammering on it mercilessly. I finally had to accept it as the only rationally moral solution. I can save you that work. Basically, you wind up in one of two places:

A: Pragmatism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatism - Machine-gunning 100 people into a pit in the Ukraine is moral if the men with guns believe doing so might benefit 101 people.

B: Voluntaryism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntaryism - Human interactions like sex, finance, and community projects are voluntary.

Once could argue a mix of the two is better. I will still always argue for less violence and more freedom, as I do here with Agenda 21.

I agree with you that non-violence does sound alien and absurd to most people, just as Heliocentrism and Evolution did. Yet, the more people hear about and consider these ideas, the less absurd they become.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
It all seems like a rather idealized view of how the world should work. The question is how do you get there from here, and how do you stay there once you get there.

I think one of the most valid criticisms of any anarchistic system is that in such a world there's really nothing to stop gangs (or external states) from taking over unless everyone is on the same page at the same time.

Have you read "...And then there were none" by Eric Frank Russell. It described a somewhat similar system working on a larger scale, and it had a great impact on me when I was young. It set of a planet that's been isolated for hundreds of years. The planet has an informal medium of exchange called "obs", short for obligations, basically if someone does something for you, then you do something for them later, but there's no actual law. Here's an except (Harrison and Gleed are visitors to the planet from earth, and the others are explaining the system to him).

 

Gunguy45

Senior Member.
Wow....that's just too strange Mick. I didn't remember the part that you quoted, but when I looked at the link...I swear I DO remember the story. I started reading my 10 yr older brothers collection of pulp mags at about 8 when he joined the Navy..so that would have been around 64. Not sure if it may have been an original or a re-print when I had my own subscriptions to Analog, Galaxy and If. It made the hair on my neck stand up though!

Galactic Patrol novels anyone?
 

Charlie Primero

Active Member
It all seems like a rather idealized view of how the world should work. The question is how do you get there from here, and how do you stay there once you get there.

It is an ideal to work toward, as are most goals. Freedom advocates like me believe the way we move past a society based upon aggression is to stop hitting children. When you hit a child, it teaches the child:

- Violence is a good way to get your needs met.

- Might makes right. Whomever can most successfully employ violence is the morally correct party in a relationship.

Thus, when the child grows up gang warfare wherein various political groups compete to seize control of the violence of the State and use it to impose their will on others seems perfectly normal. The idea that Violence Is a Good Way to Solve Social Problems seems rational. As we see in the media this week, they become highly enthusiastic about voting their gang into office.


I have not. Bookmarked it for later. Thanks!
 
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