Debunked: Ancient Aliens

[Whitebeard]

At the first time I did watch the ancient aliens tv-show, I thought it was a cool show. 95 % of those things are just a lot of BS. But I think some things by that show are the real thing, but not can prove those things. For example the Puma Punku

Pumapunku is interesting, but sadly does not prove the existence of ancient aliens.

First up we have the blocks

The largest of these stone blocks is 7.81 meters long, 5.17 meters wide, averages 1.07 meters thick, and is estimated to weigh about 131 metric tons. The second largest stone block found within the Pumapunku is 7.90 metres (25.9 feet) long, 2.50 metres (8 feet 2 inches) wide, and averages 1.86 metres (6 feet 1 inch) thick. Its weight has been estimated to be 85.21 metric tons. Both of these stone blocks are part of the Plataforma Lítica and composed of red sandstone.[5] Based upon detailed petrographic and chemical analyses of samples from both individual stones and known quarry sites, archaeologists concluded that these and other red sandstone blocks were transported up a steep incline from a quarry near Lake Titicaca roughly 10 kilometres (6.2 miles) away. Smaller andesite blocks that were used for stone facing and carvings came from quarries within the Copacabana Peninsula about 90 kilometres (56 miles) away from and across Lake Titicaca from the Pumapunku and the rest of the Tiwanaku Site

Content from External Source

Big very heavy lumps of rock shifted a long distance with stone age or bronze age technology isn't unique in ancient culture. The blocks at Pumapunku are no bigger than some of the blocks in the pyramids of Giza and smaller than some of the Stonehenge stones or the heads of the Moari on Easter Island. Now experimental archeology has proved in all three cases the rocks could have been moved and raised quite efficiently using simplistic technology such as log rollers or a simple sled, 'A' frames, ropes and muscle power; and often far less muscle power than you would think - once you get something big and heavy moving and over come its inertia keeping it moving is relatively easy)

In assembling the walls of Pumapunku, each stone was finely cut to interlock with the surrounding stones and the blocks fit together like a puzzle, forming load-bearing joints without the use of mortar. One common engineering technique involves cutting the top of the lower stone at a certain angle, and placing another stone on top of it which was cut at the same angle.[4] The precision with which these angles have been utilized to create flush joints is indicative of a highly sophisticated knowledge of stone-cutting and a thorough understanding of descriptive geometry.[6] Many of the joints are so precise that not even a razor blade will fit between the stones.[10] Much of the masonry is characterized by accurately cut rectilinear blocks of such uniformity that they could be interchanged for one another while maintaining a level surface and even joints. The blocks were so precisely cut as to suggest the possibility of prefabrication and mass production, technologies far in advance of the Tiwanaku’s Inca successors hundreds of years later.[9] Tiwanaku engineers were also adept at developing a civic infrastructure at this complex, constructing functional irrigation systems, hydraulic mechanisms, and waterproof sewage lines.

Content from External Source

yup the builders were master masons, but again this is not proof that ET won the contract to build the place. The rock is sandstone, easy to carve and mold, and mortarless construction was honed to a fine art in South America, so by the time Pumapunku was built in around 500ad the builders had several millennia of experience in the technique to draw on. As for the mathematics of the construction its is nothing that could not have been achieved with years of experience and basic tools such as plumb lines, and set squares, all of which technologies mankind has been using since the early stoneage.

And as a personal note I do get a bit annoyed when the great achievements of our ancestors are dismissed as 'impossible' and their great works attributed to aliens. In my eyes it someway diminishes the humanity of us all

 

[Hevach]

And as a personal note I do get a bit annoyed when the great achievements of our ancestors are dismissed as 'impossible' and their great works attributed to aliens. In my eyes it someway diminishes the humanity of us all

And it's not like the techniques were lost a long time ago. We as humans didn't stop doing great building projects like that until well after the Industrial Revolution. We built railroads that spanned continents with horses and hammers. We hauled stone and wood a hundred miles to build forts in the desert. The first great buildings of cities like New York and Chicago were built largely with pulleys and backbreaking human labor.

There's an interesting phenomenon that happened in the 1800's and has clouded our understanding of our ancestors ever since. First, there was a sudden loss of knowledge all around the world - oral histories of Africa, Asia, and the Americas were lost. Ancient skills like Damascus steel were forgotten. Ancient lines of livestock were allowed to die out. And new stories were invented about how ignorant and savage our ancestors were, trying to elevate industrial society as the only "real" age of enlightened understanding.

None of that stuff was mystical or alien, it was just deemed inferior to newer versions. We've managed to recreate a lot of it. Damascus steel was recreated using modern techniques in the 70's, and more recently using likely period techniques.

We've managed to breed a handful of extinct dogs back out of modern stock, and in the 30's a group of Germans bred what they believe to be an accurate recreation of the lost Auroch cattle. We've proven all the techniques needed to construct pyramids using period-available tools. We've cut and moved Stonehenge stones, and even built an entire period-accurate medieval castle in France.

A lot more is still lost, but we've got handfuls of modern intellectuals and hobbyists trying to rediscover what took master tradesmen generations to figure out. But the fact is, we as humans have not for many thousands of years been as simple and savage as we like to think we were only a few hundred years ago.

 

[Enlightened]

^^ Yep, but I didn't mean that the Puma Punku was built by the aliens. There is a term for the Forbidden Archeology, which has different levels, and things what we know is for example much older etc. And the Puma Punku is made by a very advanced people a looong time ago.



http://talc.site88.net/mega.htm

http://www.labyrinthina.com/tiwanaku.htm

http://davidpratt.info/andes2.htm

It's interesting how for example Puma Punku's people did have the same writing system as the sumerians did have.



http://www.thelivingmoon.com/42stargate/03files/Bolivian_Connection.html

It's interesting how the Puma Punku's people, sumerians and the builders of Göbekli Tepe temple has something common.

Göbekli Tepe:



Puma Punku:


It's interesting as well, when the Sumerian religion etc end, and after that in South America (Puma Punku etc) in "thousands years" later we see the same symbolism, writing system etc.


And the same thing comes to easter island vs Indus Valley writing system. And still Indus Valley religion/etc was thousands years before people of easter island etc. Why the people did have the same writing system. Weird.



And statues of Easter Island:



Look at those arms, have something the same with statue of Göbekli Tepe. And how they move that big statue in that ground.

And:





Puma Punku, Bosnian Pyramids, Pyramids of Giza, Sumerians, Göbekli Tepe etc has a lot of common. Things which are much older what we think it is. And was built a very advanced people (who knows, maybe did go to stars).
And that is a weird as well, how the stuff by the Egypt, Sumerians, Indus etc almost the same ages.
That reminds me what Jordan Maxwell did said:

"I think that if you can go back into mankind's history, as far back as we have records for, and that's not very far, which is about 10 – 15,000 years, we begin to see what is called the religious concepts and ideas. The basic concept was there was a war going on for the minds of men".

It is still..And that is funny how many "archaeologists" support still many stories etc of different religions, how the many characters has been exist etc. Which is absolutely BS. We are living in the lie, which comes to about the ancient history!

 

[Sausalito]

Enlightened: there's an awful lot there to address, and perhaps I will if I find the time. Straight away, though, the "Bosnian pyramids" are simply not man-made. Even somewhat "fringier" geologists like Robert M. Schoch (who has done important work, IMO *Edit: I refer to his observations on the sphinx) who have assessed the "pyramid" recognize that it is a natural formation.

 

[Whitebeard]

Two theories in archeology spring to mind.

One is that of convergent cultural evolution, similar ideas spring up at various times independently in different parts of the world. Take the Sumerian script for example, made by pressing a sharp stick into wet clay, not a great leap of imagination to say the stone age / bronze age cultures of South America came up with a similar idea which evolved into a stone carved script. Then there's the whole pyramid idea, want build something tall and stable without stuff like reinforced concrete and iron girders, you need a wide base and to keep it standing its best to taper the sides in, hell even nature builds pyramids, just trickle sugar or sand into a pile, it forms a cone. Therefore why shouldn't diverse cultures independently come up with the same idea? (It's also worth noting that although the pyramids of Egypt, Mexico, Burma etc look superficially the same - ie they are pyramid shaped - in method of construction, design and use they all differ greatly). Statues, pictograms, building styles etc all the same. You also see this is nature all the time, the bumble bee, the polar bear and the kiwi bird are all hairy, yet one is an insect, one is a mammal and one is a bird, yet all have evolved fur independently.

The second is that of cultural contact. Since we left Africa man has traveled and man has traded. Early examples include stoneage flint tools from Langdale in the Mountainous north of the UK being found as far south as the Mediterranean and the middle east and bronze age beads found in India being made from Amber from the Baltic region of Northern Europe. Now if people were trading flint and amber across vast distances 10,000+ years ago, its a safe guess to say information and ideas were flowing along the same trade routes. In fact the spread of structures like stone circles across northern Europe around 5,000bc goes someway to support this theory. And even trans oceanic contact is not out of the question. Thor Hyadal under took a whole series or epic voyages from the 1950's own ward in reproductions of ancient vessels like the Ra and Kontiki, which showed that the Egyptians, the Polynesians and other cultures COULD have under taken trans oceanic voyages long before Leif Eriksson or John Cabot or Mr Columbus.

Personally I think the truth to these similarities is a combination of the above ideas, rather than any proof of a past ultra advanced civilisation and forbidden knowledge there of.

And a quick note to @Hevach , your right we don't loose technology as such, but sometimes we loose the skills to use it. Just a small example, In the UK there is shortage of people who can drive steam trains. Up til 15 years ago there was a pool of former British railways engine drivers who had steam experience so running preserved locomotives on heritage lines and the main lines was not a problem. Now most of these guys have retired and finding qualified and experienced drivers is a real head ache, so steam operating companies and private lines are openly looking to recruit volunteers to keep the skills of steam traction alive. I've volunteered at my local line The Bristol Harbour Railway - (the UK's only preserved dockside line) and I can now see there is a lot more to driving a steam train than a shovel of coal or two and pulling a few levers. Building and maintaining the fire to get a good boiler of steam is an art form and very tricky even in the Avonside 0-6-0ST I've been running up and down the yard, and when you come to driving balancing things like cut off, regulator and brake vacuum is far from easy. Then you have to learn the line, know every point and signal etc, it's gonna take a year or two just get a license and a pass for the BHR, and every line and route in the country requires its own test pass before you can drive a regular train with passengers. but it is in a small way keeping the skills alive and if a boyhood dream come true.

 

[Enlightened]

Enlightened: there's an awful lot there to address, and perhaps I will if I find the time. Straight away, though, the "Bosnian pyramids" are simply not man-made. Even somewhat "fringier" geologists like Robert M. Schoch (who has done important work, IMO) who have assessed the "pyramid" recognize that it is a natural formation.

Well, Robert M. Schoch says something about the pyramids of Giza, they are + 10000 years old. But that reminds me, if people in that time did built the pyramids of Giza, and Göbekli Tepe, which is + 10000 years old, so why the ancient people didn't built the Bosnian pyramids.

Here is pictures of Teotihuacan, which is from 1858, it just looks like a hill in that picture, nothing more. And the Bosnian pyramids looks like too.



You see the patern of 3 pyramids all over the world, like you see that same patern in Bosnia. Maybe the oldest one is in Africa (Arfican Metropolis).

And here:

Facts that have been verified by scientific analytic testing include:

• The Sun pyramid stands over 722 feet (220 m) high one third taller than the Great Pyramid of Giza
• Radio carbon dating shows the pyramid to be at least 24,800 years old
• Material Analysis shows that the structure is from man-made concrete
• There is an 8.000 kg ceramic block under the pyramid in the underground labyrinth
• An energy beam, electromagnetic in nature with a radius of 4.5 meters and a frequency of 28 kHz,has been detected and measured coming from the top of the Sun pyramid
• An ultrasound beam with a radius of 10 meters and frequency of 28-33 kHz has been measured on the top of the pyramid, as well
• The pyramids are aligned with the earth’s cardinal points and oriented to stellar North

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/4/prweb10657023.htm

 

[Whitebeard]

Facts that have been verified by scientific analytic testing include:

• The Sun pyramid stands over 722 feet (220 m) high one third taller than the Great Pyramid of Giza
• Radio carbon dating shows the pyramid to be at least 24,800 years old
• Material Analysis shows that the structure is from man-made concrete
• There is an 8.000 kg ceramic block under the pyramid in the underground labyrinth
• An energy beam, electromagnetic in nature with a radius of 4.5 meters and a frequency of 28 kHz,has been detected and measured coming from the top of the Sun pyramid
• An ultrasound beam with a radius of 10 meters and frequency of 28-33 kHz has been measured on the top of the pyramid, as well
• The pyramids are aligned with the earth’s cardinal points and oriented to stellar North

Sadly they are NOT 'Facts that have been verified by scientific analytic testing' they are pseudo scientific claims, that have been refuted, debunked and rebuffed by most of the worlds leading archeologists. There have even been whistleblowers from with in Osmanagich's own team that have accused him of falsifying results, planting finds and worst of all destroying real archeology because it doesn't fit with in his own pet theories.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_pyramid_claims#Scholarly_reception

Boston University's Curtis Runnels, an expert in prehistoric Greece and the Balkans states that, "Between 27,000 and 12,000 years ago, the Balkans were locked in the last Glacial maximum, a period of very cold and dry climate with glaciers in some of the Dinaric Alps. The only occupants were Upper Paleolithic hunters and gatherers who left behind open-air camp sites and traces of occupation in caves. These remains consist of simple stone tools, hearths, and remains of animals and plants that were consumed for food. These people did not have the tools or skills to engage in the construction of monumental architecture."

Content from External Source

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-mystery-of-bosnias-ancient-pyramids-148990462/?no-ist=

He points out various boulders he says were transported to the site 15,000 years ago, some of which bear carvings he says date back to that time. In an interview with the Bosnian weekly magazine BH Dani, Nadija Nukic, a geologist whom Osmanagich once employed, claimed there was no writing on the boulders when she first saw them. Later, she saw what appeared to her as freshly cut marks. She added that one of the foundation's workers told her he had carved the first letters of his and his children's names.

Content from External Source

 

[Whitebeard]

the pyramids of Giza, they are + 10000 years old

Nope, we have a pretty accurate date for the Giza complex
http://archive.archaeology.org/9909/abstracts/pyramids.html
.

It was an odd sensation climbing over the Great Pyramid, looking for minute flecks of charcoal or other datable material, loaded down with cameras, scales, notebooks, and forms with entries for sample number, site, monument, area, feature, material (charcoal, reed, wood, etc.), matrix (gypsum mortar, mud brick, etc.), date, time, notes on details, extracted by, logged by, photograph numbers, and sketches. It was 1984 and the Edgar Cayce Foundation, named for an early twentieth-century psychic who claimed that the Sphinx and Khufu's Great Pyramid were built in 10,500 B.C., was paying for the analysis of our samples. Old friends and supporters of the deceased psychic had visited Giza in the early 1980s and several of them were willing to put their beliefs to the test by radiocarbon dating the Great Pyramid. Archaeologists believe it is the work of the Old Kingdom Dynasty 4 society that rose to prominence in the Nile Valley from ca. 3000 B.C. and built the Giza Pyramids in a span of 85 years between 2589 and 2504 B.C.

1984 Results. The 1984 radiocarbon dates from monuments spanning Dynasty 3 (Djoser) to late Dynasty 5 (Unas), averaged 374 years older than the Cambridge Ancient History dates of the kings with whom the pyramids are identified. In spite of this discrepancy, the radiocarbon dates confirmed that the Great Pyramid belonged to the historical era studied by Egyptologists. In dealing with the 374-year discrepancy, we had to consider the old wood problem. In 1984 we thought it was unlikely that the pyramid builders consistently used centuries-old Egyptian wood as fuel in preparing mortar. Ancient Egypt's population was compressed in the narrow confines of the Nile Valley with a tree cover, we assumed, that was sparse compared to less arid lands. We expected that by the pyramid age the Egyptians had been intensively exploiting wood for fuel for a long time and that old trees had been harvested long before. The 1984 results left us with too little data to conclude that the historical chronology of the Old Kingdom was in error by nearly 400 years, but we considered this at least a possibility. Alternatively, if our radiocarbon age estimations were in error for some reason, we had to assume that many other dates obtained from Egyptian materials were also suspect. This prompted a second, larger study.

The 1995 Project. During 1995 samples were collected from the Dynasty 1 tombs at Saqqara to the Djoser pyramid, the Giza Pyramids, and a selection of Dynasty 5 and 6 and Middle Kingdom pyramids. Samples were also taken from our excavations at Giza where two largely intact bakeries were discovered in 1991. The calibrated dates from the 1995 Old Kingdom pyramid samples tended to be 100 to 200 years older than the historical dates for the respective kings and about 200 years younger than our 1984 dates. The number of dates from both 1984 and 1995 was only large enough to allow for statistical comparisons for the pyramids of Djoser, Khufu, Khafre, and Menkaure. There are two striking results. First, there are significant discrepancies between 1984 and 1995 dates for Khufu and Khafre, but not for Djoser and Menkaure. Second, the 1995 dates are scattered, varying widely even for a single monument. For Khufu, they scatter over a range of about 400 years. By contrast, we have fair agreement between our historical dates, previous radiocarbon dates, and our radiocarbon dates on reed for the Dynasty 1 tombs at North Saqqara. We also have fair agreement between our radiocarbon dates and historical dates for the Middle Kingdom. Eight calibrated dates on straw from the pyramid of Senwosret II ranged from 103 years older to 78 years younger than the historical dates for his reign, with four dates off by only 30, 24, 14, and three years. Significantly, the older date was on charcoal.

Content from External Source

 

[Hevach]

Many scientists have looked at the Bosnian "pyramids." By the way, there's not three, there's over thirty, it's actually hard to tell where exactly you'd say they stop and the mountains begin, if indeed the distinction is even meaningful. Flatirons and breccia formations of that type actually very interesting features to geologists, separate from any archaeological interest, so they're very well studied, even before Osmanagic came along.

Every one of those claims was either fabricated outright (the inscriptions and concrete were done by Osmanagic's crews), misinterpreted (it's possible the ultrasound was created by the concrete pouring machinery on site when it was reported, but it was definitely gone later), or added later by other sources (Osmanagic didn't initially claim they were aligned to any particular direction, because they're not).

It's a matter of professional ethics that scientists almost never accuse one another of fabricating evidence even when it's really obvious they fabricated evidence. Saying, "It's a hoax, though perhaps not one intentionally perpetrated," is professional code speak for, "Yeah, we've basically got everything but the receipt for the big ceramic brick. That ****'s fake as ****."

 

[Whitebeard]

Göbekli Tepe which is + 10000 years old

Yup indeed parts of that complex do date back to around 9,000BC, but it is a site that was occupied for around 3,000 years and the archeology is spread over five major and numerous sub layers of deposits. The artifacts found, carvings, pottery shards etcs show an evolution of culture over the period of occupation similar to other sites in the area. Showing that Göbekli Tepe was an important cultural and religious centre for the area over several millennia, not signs of a huge global civilisation

 

[Enlightened]

@Whitebeard

Yeah, but still there is a many scientists etc, which actually support that the Bosnian pyramids are manmade. But this case ever ends.

http://www.wakingtimes.com/2014/03/03/9-cases-existence-pyramids-bosnia/


And that same thing comes about pyramids of Giza. There is a many geologists (erosion etc) as well who think that the Sphinx, and pyramids of Giza are much older. Stars (ages) etc show that as well. I guess geologists knows much more about the rocks than the archaeologists do. If the Khufu built "his" pyramid, but still there is only one cartouche of Khufu in "his" pyramid, and it is hidden. And still other pharaohs pyramids tells stories, are much cartouches etc in their pyramids. Weird.

Another thing that bothers me is the belief that the pyramids of Egypt were built as tombs for the Pharaohs. Pharaohs were buried in the Valley of the Kings. No Pharaohs were ever buried anywhere near a pyramid.
Anybody who knows anything about Egypt knows, that nowhere in ancient Egypt is there any mention of a pyramid. Nowhere. The Egyptians are famous for keeping records of everything but there is nothing recorded talking about pyramids.

One thing we know for sure is that they are not burial tombs for the Pharaohs. The Valley of the Kings is where the Pharaohs are buried and the Queens are buried in the Valley of the Queens. The Egyptians were very good at keeping records, but there are no records whatsoever, nothing in the Egyptian world period on the subject of pyramids. Nothing. No mention, no pictures, no drawings. Now we also know that some of the most ancient explorers that went in to Egypt said that the ancient Egyptian people they met told them that they had no idea in the world where those pyramids came from. They were there before the ancient Egyptians settled there. So who built the pyramids?

I suspect they were put there by a far more ancient civilization than the Egyptians. Who were those people? Well, the people which were behind Göbekli Tepe, Bosnian pyramids etc. No doubt that.

And is that once again weird, people who call himself as archaeologists, and still many of them for example support Bible stuff etc. And of course many of archaeologists are the religious people itself. A very realistic stuff they give to their people and the world.

It is easy silence to many people, like archaeologists etc that we are living in a consept of religions, and they don't tell to people that our history is much older.

 

[SR1419]

If we send probes etc in the space, planets etc, so then aliens has done that as well. Because there is aliens, which are ahead us of thousands, millions and billions years, if we cannot do something, so it doesn't mean aliens cannot.

Sorry. You cannot know this.

...and yet by the same logic, just because we have done something does not mean aliens can do it too.

If life exists elsewhere, you cannot know what possible form it will take or how it would evolve.

 

[Enlightened]

Sorry. You cannot know this.

...and yet by the same logic, just because we have done something does not mean aliens can do it too.

If life exists elsewhere, you cannot know what possible form it will take or how it would evolve.

I didn't said I know it, I only use thoughts. But I've noticed that people has always think that we are living in a center of the universe, milky way or our own solar system, like the religious has think that as well in thousands years. Logic alone will tell that there is much more advanced races than we are. And still our technology isn't that old, and still there is billions years older planets than our own planet. Like there is + 300 light years away planets, which are over 10 billions years old. So Yes, no doubt there is races which are much advanced than we are.

 

[Pete Tar]

I living in the country, which has not a big military-system. So, I've see a two times cigar-shaped objects, which were so fast, and soundless, so no doubt they weren't by my country/military or other countries etc.

Not sure of your reasoning here. Why wouldn't military activity take place out in the country? It's more likely than over populated areas.

 

[Whitebeard]

Another thing that bothers me is the belief that the pyramids of Egypt were built as tombs for the Pharaohs. Pharaohs were buried in the Valley of the Kings. No Pharaohs were ever buried anywhere near a pyramid.
Anybody who knows anything about Egypt knows, that nowhere in ancient Egypt is there any mention of a pyramid. Nowhere. The Egyptians are famous for keeping records of everything but there is nothing recorded talking about pyramids.

One thing we know for sure is that they are not burial tombs for the Pharaohs. The Valley of the Kings is where the Pharaohs are buried and the Queens are buried in the Valley of the Queens. The Egyptians were very good at keeping records, but there are no records whatsoever, nothing in the Egyptian world period on the subject of pyramids. Nothing. No mention, no pictures, no drawings. Now we also know that some of the most ancient explorers that went in to Egypt said that the ancient Egyptian people they met told them that they had no idea in the world where those pyramids came from. They were there before the ancient Egyptians settled there. So who built the pyramids?

Again not so, the valley of the Kings, or to give it it's proper ancient egyptian name The Great and Majestic Necropolis of the Millions of Years of the Pharaoh, Life, Strength, Health in The West of Thebes, only came into regular use about 1530BC, some 1000 years AFTER the great era of pyramid construction.

As for the Egyptians not talking about Pyramids, that is, sorry to say utter tosh, there are many references to the Pyramids in the Egyptian hyroglyphs and other records.

This is just a few to get you started
http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/ghizahistoricaccounts.htm#Egyptian
A more depth search will bring more info,

 

[Pete Tar]

I didn't said I know it, I only use thoughts. But I've noticed that people has always think that we are living in a center of the universe, milky way or our own solar system, like the religious has think that as well in thousands years. Logic alone will tell that there is much more advanced races than we are. And still our technology isn't that old, and still there is billions years older planets than our own planet. Like there is + 300 light years away planets, which are over 10 billions years old. So Yes, no doubt there is races which are much advanced than we are.

Not necessarily - if the time our solar system and planet took to form and then evolve intelligent self-aware life is roughly the same all over the universe, we could be the first, or other systems may be at the same level. There's nothing that says any life out there has to be more advanced than we.
The idea that we're actually the big kids in the universe is a bit disturbing, but we could be.

 

[Enlightened]

Not sure of your reasoning here. Why wouldn't military activity take place out in the country? It's more likely than over populated areas.

Well, I guess you've noticed that if someone has seen the flying disc etc, so then some sceptic is claiming that it's just a military aircraft. And I my country you don't see military aircrafts over populated areas, depends which city you live, and if you do the sound is big. And I live city, and that cigar shaped object was soundless. And that other cigar shaped object I see in the wild, and there is not even close military bases etc.

 

[Pete Tar]

I thought you said you lived in the country.
No close military base doesn't make something not a military vehicle because aircraft can travel long distances, though of course you would see more activity if you lived close to a base. The point is, that can't be the criteria you use to eliminate it as a possibility.

 

[Enlightened]

Again not so, the valley of the Kings, or to give it it's proper ancient egyptian name The Great and Majestic Necropolis of the Millions of Years of the Pharaoh, Life, Strength, Health in The West of Thebes, only came into regular use about 1530BC, some 1000 years AFTER the great era of pyramid construction.

As for the Egyptians not talking about Pyramids, that is, sorry to say utter tosh, there are many references to the Pyramids in the Egyptian hyroglyphs and other records.

This is just a few to get you started
http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/ghizahistoricaccounts.htm#Egyptian
A more depth search will bring more info,

Yeah, but that is not prove that Khufu actually built the pyramid, and in that time what many claiming.

 

[Enlightened]

I thought you said you lived in the country.
No close military base doesn't make something not a military vehicle because aircraft can travel long distances, though of course you would see more activity if you lived close to a base. The point is, that can't be the criteria you use to eliminate it as a possibility.

It is difference between military aircrafts and the objects which are sounldess and much more faster. And I've seen a lot military stuff, because I have been in the army as well. And I know where the military bases are in my country etc.

 

[Whitebeard]

I'm 51 years old and three times in my life I've seen things in the sky (well two in the sky and one just above ground level) that I couldn't explain at the time. The first one was when i was about 14 years old, when i saw a cluster of lights performing very odd maneuvers over Hertfordshire in the UK, second when I was about 25 I saw a metallic disc over South Wales that didn't look like any aircraft I have ever seen and then in my mid 30's I saw a ball of light about the size of a soccer ball floating along a road one night, about 5 foot off the ground.

These have puzzled me for years, and I've often 'researched' into what they could have been. I'm now pretty sure the third (the white ball) was ball lightning (a powerful thunder storm broke soon after I saw it), but the other two I still can't call. So they are UFO's as in UNIDENTIFIED Flying Objects, They COULD have been aliens from the planet Zarg popping by to look at Earth, but I have no proof as to say they were either, and until I get certain proof it was a space ship* or a more mundane object / phenomena they are just things I couldn't and still can't identify.

*And yes that would be something like a similar object landing in Hyde Park, aliens getting out and saying 'take us to your leader', broadcast live on all channels.

 

[Hevach]

Aircraft at altitude are visible at substantial distances. Somewhere around here there's an image showing just how far you can see airplanes, and if I remember correctly at the altitude airliners travel you can see them upwards of 200 miles away. Military planes may fly lower, as for some maneuvers power, stealth, or ground visibility trumps efficiency, but even at half an airliner's altitude you can see them flying over the next county quite easily.

Scarce few places in the continental US are that far away from some type of unscheduled off-route air activity, be it military, scientific, medical, police, or recreational.

 

[Enlightened]

Not necessarily - if the time our solar system and planet took to form and then evolve intelligent self-aware life is roughly the same all over the universe, we could be the first, or other systems may be at the same level. There's nothing that says any life out there has to be more advanced than we.
The idea that we're actually the big kids in the universe is a bit disturbing, but we could be.

Yeah, our planet is the only planet which has evolve life etc. Right..What more you go further in the universe, much more light years away, so obviously everything is older as well, and not everything are the same level as we are.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/11/us/oldest-planet-is-discovered-challenging-theories.html

Billions of stars even our milky and much planets, our planet the only planet, which has evolve life, or all are the same level as we are. I don't thinks so. And that same things comes to all over the universe, hundred billions of galaxies. And we are alone, or all or less are in the same level as we. I don't think so.

 

[Enlightened]

I believe in things only what I see or hear. And in my country the military doesn't have the stealth technology, nothing whatsoever. And everything are louds.

 

[Whitebeard]

Billions of stars even our milky and much planets, our planet the only planet, which has evolve life, or all are the same level as we are. I don't thinks so. And that same things comes to all over the universe, hundred billions of galaxies. And we are alone, or all or less are in the same level as we. I don't think so.

Ah this is one of the oldest conundrums in astronomy. The Drake Equation says in theory at least, there should be other civilisations out there, but the Fermi Paradox justifiably asks 'where the hell are they'? Astronomers have been arguing this one since the early 1960's, and until one side contacts ET or the other comes up with 100% undeniable proof we are alone the arguments will go on.

I would love to think that when I look at the stars on a clear night, someone somewhere out there is looking back, but I tend to reluctantly agree with what Brian Cox said recently.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/10670019/No-we-re-not-on-our-own-Brian-Cox-clarifies

IE, life is rare, but is out there, and civilisation will be rarer still, it is out there, but with the shear size of the universe the chances of humanity encountering another intelligent civilisation are so small they might as well not exist.

 

[Hevach]

Ah this is one of the oldest conundrums in astronomy. The Drake Equation says in theory at least, there should be other civilisations out there, but the Fermi Paradox justifiably asks 'where the hell are they'? Astronomers have been arguing this one since the early 1960's, and until one side contacts ET or the other comes up with 100% undeniable proof we are alone the arguments will go on.

We've found recently the Drake Equation is missing a few coefficients, and his values for the ones he did have were quite optimistic. We're finding that, while planets are common, a large proportion of systems are inviable for life: A large number of stars (including the vast majority of red dwarves, accounting for the majority of all stars) are too variable so their habitable zones don't stay put. A large number of planets we've found are hot jupiters that simulations suggest make habitable planets with stable orbits unlikely. A majority of stars are binary or multiples which often negate the presence of a stable habitable zone entirely. And now we're finding that entire galaxies seem to have conditions unsuitable for complex life as we know it.

Separate from viability is age. The complexity to produce a human-like intelligence on Earth has been there for a long time. A dinosaur species in the right niche could easily have been pushed down the tool use feedback loop that we believe led to us to civilization - they were different than mammals, but every bit as evolved for the environment they lived in. However, it only happened very recently, which suggests the probability of a planet with sufficiently complex life to produce intelligent life is still quite low. If we continue to exist for the remaining habitable time this planet has, using the Earth as a model if you observe at a random point in time, you have an 80% chance to find life, but only a 10% chance to find intelligent life.

Still, the Fermi Paradox is overlooking something. Our strongest radio signals are only detectable above background for a few tens of light years, maybe a hundred with a big enough antenna. And our signals have been getting weaker over time, not stronger, shrinking that bubble. We're whispering to the ocean and wondering why we don't hear boats whisper back, when the number of systems we could hear from that might have life (let alone intelligent life) looks like it's in the single digits, if any.

The original Drake Equation estimated coefficients for our galaxy gave an estimate of 100,000,000 civilizations. Some modern estimates range that hight, but not many, and every time we revise a coefficient, it's downward. Most modern estimates range from a few hundred to tens of thousands. Some of them range as low as single digits. At the lower range you're getting to the point where even with an Alcubierre drive and a fuel tank the size of a gas giant you're still going to need a generational ship to reach them.

 

[Enlightened]

Ah this is one of the oldest conundrums in astronomy. The Drake Equation says in theory at least, there should be other civilisations out there, but the Fermi Paradox justifiably asks 'where the hell are they'? Astronomers have been arguing this one since the early 1960's, and until one side contacts ET or the other comes up with 100% undeniable proof we are alone the arguments will go on.

I would love to think that when I look at the stars on a clear night, someone somewhere out there is looking back, but I tend to reluctantly agree with what Brian Cox said recently.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/10670019/No-we-re-not-on-our-own-Brian-Cox-clarifies

IE, life is rare, but is out there, and civilisation will be rarer still, it is out there, but with the shear size of the universe the chances of humanity encountering another intelligent civilisation are so small they might as well not exist.

Well, I don't believe that we are the only civilisation in Milky way. And there is opposite for the Fermi Paradox, which is the Zoo hypothesis. But many sceptics for example believe that why on earth aliens are interesting about the humans etc. And some people believe that soon the invasion is coming, well that invasion happend a long time ago, when the first religions born. Government and religions is part of the control system. Many people see everyday spacehips etc in the sky, and they whonder why they don't attack or come to say hello to us. But we are actually slaves on here, and if people understand how to goverments and religions works, it show that a very well. Aliens are like we humans are, they want to rule, and religions especially present they very well. But are just a thoughts of mine.

I don't believe that aliens create us. But one thing reminds me as well what a well known atheist and the evolutionary biologist (Rickard Dawkins) said that "he still believes that life most likely originated on earth, but he has also said than an alien designed start is an "intriguing possibility". Intelligent life, he has explained, could have evolved elsewhere in the universe according to modern Darwinian theory, and this intelligent life could have eventually learned to engineer new life, and an engineered seed could then have ended up on earth and subsequently evolved into to all the life found here today. Dawkins: - "Well, it could come about in the following way. It could be that at some earlier time, somewhere in the universe, a civilization evolved, probably by some kind of Darwinian means, probably to a very high level of technology, and designed a form of life that they seeded onto perhaps this planet. Now that is a possibility, and an intriguing possibility. And I suppose it's possible that you might find evidence for that if you look at the details of biochemistry, molecular biology, you might find a signature of some sort of designer".

Is that possible for example, if human create something today can it evolve in time? Maybe.

And one thing reminds me as well what Pope Francis said a while ago: “God is not a divine being or a magician, but the Creator who brought everything to life,” he said. “Evolution in nature is notinconsistent with the notion of creation, because evolution requires the creation of beings that evolve.” Is that interesting how many religious today believe in the evolution, but in ancient time the God was the gods, and creator was the creators. But does the Pope mean that the creator is the "alien" or did he mean that the creator is just a nature, evolution the universe itself.

 

[Enlightened]

"Our strongest radio signals are only detectable above background for a few tens of light years, maybe a hundred with a big enough antenna".

What are you guys think about the WOW signal?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zqdbgk7

 

[SR1419]

I believe in things only what I see or hear.

So Yes, no doubt there is races which are much advanced than we are

These 2 statements seem to contradict one another.

 

[Enlightened]

These 2 statements seem to contradict one another.

Why so, the first one was actually my own experience (what objects I've seen), and the other was thought for the people which can see in the other views and thoughts we are not alone, and we aren't only intelligence race, but there is advanced races as well, and now we comes back to my first thought, because I see the objects, and I don't believe they were manmade.

 

[SR1419]

Why so

Because you believe that there are Extra Terrestrial beings far more advanced that Humans despite there being no actual evidence.

 

[Enlightened]

Because you believe that there are Extra Terrestrial beings far more advanced that Humans despite there being no actual evidence.

I don't need prove to you, I prove to myself, a huge difference. And my own experience prove that as well - to me. And those experience show to me (if those thing ever did happend to me, then I have the same thoughts as you do), it were obviously advanced beings than the humans. That's it. We can talk this thing over and over again, but it doesn't change what I believe and what I have experience.

 

[Auldy]

I don't need prove to you, I prove to myself, a huge difference. And my own experience prove that as well - to me. And those experience show to me (if those thing ever did happend to me, then I have the same thoughts as you do), it were obviously advanced beings than the humans. That's it. We can talk this thing over and over again, but it doesn't change what I believe and what I have experience.

Then why are you here?

On metabunk I mean, not this planet.

 

[SR1419]

it doesn't change what I believe and what I have experience.

So, you have experienced civilizations from Space that are much more advanced than humans?

Sorry - feel free to believe whatever you want...but thats religion- faith- not facts.

 

[Enlightened]

So, you have experienced civilizations from Space that are much more advanced than humans?

Sorry - feel free to believe whatever you want...but thats religion- faith- not facts.

Repeat things over and over again. You really reminds me the religious one. And you think they were something else what I saw, nice if you have "faith" as well. Religion? Hallelujah! I am not a worshipper, like the religious are, I don't believe in gods, Jesus (or the other saviours), spirits/souls etc like the religious do. If people believe in aliens, which use the technology as we do, does it make me a religious one, no. Aliens aren't supernatural things. I guess it's wrong if people use the logic as well, because of course we are living a very small milky way as well as the a whole universe, so no doubt there is not aliens or advanced being than we do. But I have faith, and now I am the religious one. LOL. And sorry, I am the atheist (even 55 % of atheist believe in aliens), and now of course you say the atheism is a religion. But you have the same thoughts as the religious have, and many don't believe in aliens etc. Coins has always the riverside.

And please, don't speak to me again, Ok.

 

[Landru]

Repeat things over and over again. You really reminds me the religious one. And you think they were something else what I saw, nice if you have "faith" as well. Religion? Hallelujah! I am not a worshipper, like the religious are, I don't believe in gods, Jesus (or the other saviours), spirits/souls etc like the religious do. If people believe in aliens, which use the technology as we do, does it make me a religious one, no. Aliens aren't supernatural things. I guess it's wrong if people use the logic as well, because of course we are living a very small milky way as well as the a whole universe, so no doubt there is not aliens or advanced being than we do. But I have faith, and now I am the religious one. LOL. And sorry, I am the atheist (even 55 % of atheist believe in aliens), and now of course you say the atheism is a religion. But you have the same thoughts as the religious have, and many don't believe in aliens etc. Coins has always the riverside.

And please, don't speak to me again, Ok.

If you post comments people will tend to respond. As long as they are within the posting guidelines and the politeness policy it's ok.

 

[Mick West]

And please, don't speak to me again, Ok.

If you speak in public, you must expect public response.

This thread has long ago drifted from the posting guidelines, so I'm going to close it.

Feel free to start new debunking or focussed investigation thread here, but the speculation should really go in Chit Chat.