Debunk: imgur: "Boston Truth Revealed"

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Chuck

Member
the 'backpack' photos are a little odd. The suspects do seem to be wearing backpacks that don't closely resemble the one which apparently contained a device.
This is one of the main points that I think has been ignored in this thread. The exploded backpack has a rather distinct white square as shown in the photo below as well as the photo Mick posted.

XaFGwXG.png

Two things I've yet to fully vet.

1. If both backpacks were used by the brothers to execute the bombing, why is the younger brother seen with his backpack after the bombing?
2. The exploded backpack, though dark like the Tamerlan's (the older brother), has that distinctive well defined white square which does not appear on the Tamerlan's backpack (not the same contrast) yet looks very much like the law enforcement officer's backpack. And though it could be the exposure of the photo, the exploded backpack looks much darker than Tamerlan's (which appears to be more of a grayish color).

So, alhough I'm not convinced that Craft or Blackwater operatives were involved in the planning or execution of the bombing, I am perplexed by this one issue. Thanks for any help you can give me on this. Perhaps it's already been debunked and if so please let me know of the thread.
 

Chuck

Member
CORRECTION: I've found another sharper photo which I presume was taken after the bombing (since people are running away from something), and it appears that Dzhokhar is no longer wearing his backpack. The photo of his brother is too blurry to make that same determination.

Closeup without backpack.jpg
 

Edgukator

Member
About the square on the backpack, and I'll admit this threw me as well at first, but if you look at Tamerlane's backpack, there is a square about a third of the way down the back. Having said that, the way that backpack has been ripped apart, it could just as easily been inside the backpack.
 

Edgukator

Member
The exploded backpack has grey and black straps. The others don't.
Are you referring to the inside of the strap or the outside of the strap. I haven't seen a clear shot of the inside of Tamerlane's strap at all - do you have one that clearly shows the inside of the strap?
 

Tazmanian

Account Closed
I never thought about the inside of the strap. Are there examples of inside straps being different than the outside?

Also, has anyone ever said that the exploded backpack in the photo is the actual backpack that contained the pressure cooker? It could be just a backpack that was shredded by flying shrapnel.
 

Edgukator

Member
I never thought about the inside of the strap. Are there examples of inside straps being different than the outside?

Also, has anyone ever said that the exploded backpack in the photo is the actual backpack that contained the pressure cooker? It could be just a backpack that was shredded by flying shrapnel.
Actually, it's quite common for the inside of the strap to be a different colour than the outside of the strap for reasons of comfort (different material for padding) or style. I found these after a quick search -

backpack_skdy2130-red_1_2.jpgBackpack_SKDY2005-GRN_1.jpgmammut-nirvana-ride-22l-backpack-dark-cruise-smoke-front.jpgvaude-brenta-26-backpack-internal-frame-in-saffron~p~5183f_01~1500.3.jpg
What I also realised, with the same search, is how hard it can be to tell the difference between grey and black sometimes. The number of backpacks I saw described as black but could have been grey from the photo was actually quite surprising.

Regarding the exploded backpack, a caption from a Huffington Post article claims it "is believed to have contained one of the bombs"
 

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Chuck

Member
Are you referring to the inside of the strap or the outside of the strap. I haven't seen a clear shot of the inside of Tamerlane's strap at all - do you have one that clearly shows the inside of the strap?
Though it's not conclusive because the backpack is somewhat shredded, I have to admit that it looks a whole lot more like the law enforcement officer's backpack than Tamerlan's. Every CT blog is running wild with this backpack issue, and IMO, unless that distinct white square is dealt with, nothing else will matter. The exploded backpack is darker than Tamerlan's as well. How again do we know that this backpack actually housed the pressure cooker?

Assuming for a moment that this was an "inside job", why would the government (for lack of a more precise term) have used a distinct looking backpack that could be easily traced back to one of their agents? And if these two boys were framed (which seems highly unlikely given their behavior following the bombing), wouldn't they have offered up backpack evidence that would have their two backpacks?

Following is picture of one of the blast sites. I can't find what might be the backpack with the infamous white square.

debris at finish line.jpg

I don't think the circled pack is in the exact area where the bomb exploded. I think it was far closer to the establishment window.

Before Bomb.jpg

After Bomb.jpg

Question: Would there be much left of a backpack that housed the exploding pressure cooker if the lid was found 35 yards away on the top of a 6 story building? Seems like a task for Myth Busters. Here are a couple more photos of one of the blast areas.

Boston_Marathon_Explo_Haff2_tx728_fsharpen.jpg

boston-marathon-scene-tuesday_original.jpg

Some additional sites with photos:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2310200/Boston-Marathon-pressure-cooker-bomb-lid-6th-floor-hotel-rooftop-35-yards-away.html


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2311341/First-official-pictures-REAL-Boston-bomb-suspects-FBI-releases-chilling-images-TWO-suspects-carrying-backpacks.html
 

Edgukator

Member
Though it's not conclusive because the backpack is somewhat shredded, I have to admit that it looks a whole lot more like the law enforcement officer's backpack than Tamerlan's. Every CT blog is running wild with this backpack issue, and IMO, unless that distinct white square is dealt with, nothing else will matter. The exploded backpack is darker than Tamerlan's as well. How again do we know that this backpack actually housed the pressure cooker?
The root of this problem is that we are comparing apples and oranges in terms of the photos. We have a very clear photo of the guy in the National Guard, but the photo of Tamerlan comes from a still frame from a security camera from God knows how far away. Perhaps the first thing to do would be to show definitively that different cameras can radically alter the colour and appearance of common clothing - are there any clear photos of the National Guard guys from the security cameras so we could compare the colour change?

You could compare Tamerlan in this photo:

boston.jpgRemains-of-a-black-bag-be-016.jpg

To the photo with him wearing the backpack and note that his jacket appears to be the same colour as his bag in that photo, but this photo clearly shows he was wearing a straight black jacket

As for the nice neat square.
boston_bombing_suspects_500x358.jpg
But again, the problem is that this is a weak picture from a long distance. You might want to look at the Fox News Atlanta picture of the bag, as the tint on the photo actually makes different parts of the material of the bag pop out.
article-2310200-1954F58C000005DC-758_964x639.jpg
In this case, the white square appears connected to a separate piece of fabric in a slightly different colour than the rest of the bag - more akin to Tamerlane's bag than the National Guard bag - but again, different cameras, different tints so nothing conclusive, and I think short of a photo of Tamerlane's open wallet with his ID sticking out of the bag, due to the nature of the photos we're dealing with - multiple cameras, multiple exposures, multiple distances - there is always wriggle room for the CTers out there.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I think short of a photo of Tamerlane's open wallet with his ID sticking out of the bag, due to the nature of the photos we're dealing with - multiple cameras, multiple exposures, multiple distances - there is always wriggle room for the CTers out there.
There's ALWAYS wiggle room for people who want to believe. Some people believe the video of the planes hitting the WTC was all faked.

The thing is, the FBI has the remains of the backpack. They will have already identified the precise make and model. It will come out later in the trial or the report. So all this speculation is pretty pointless.

It's mangled backpack that resembles the one he was carrying. It was not totally shredded because the pressure cooker was not shredded.
 

Edgukator

Member
There's ALWAYS wiggle room for people who want to believe. Some people believe the video of the planes hitting the WTC was all faked.

The thing is, the FBI has the remains of the backpack. They will have already identified the precise make and model. It will come out later in the trial or the report. So all this speculation is pretty pointless.
Fair enough - but looking back at the triptych of photos (Tamerlan, the bag, the photo of Tamerlan with the bag) I think that may at least debunk the argument about the colour of the bag somewhat. That and the square are the two pieces of evidence people have been giving me first...
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Fair enough - but looking back at the triptych of photos (Tamerlan, the bag, the photo of Tamerlan with the bag) I think that may at least debunk the argument about the colour of the bag somewhat. That and the square are the two pieces of evidence people have been giving me first...
Color? It's black, and insides of straps are often different colors. Square? You can't see all the backpack's exterior (and even then there's a square visible), and you can see none of the interior. Also you don't even know if the square is part of the backpack, it could be some random debris that just fell on it.
 

Chuck

Member
There's ALWAYS wiggle room for people who want to believe. Some people believe the video of the planes hitting the WTC was all faked.

The thing is, the FBI has the remains of the backpack. They will have already identified the precise make and model. It will come out later in the trial or the report. So all this speculation is pretty pointless.

It's mangled backpack that resembles the one he was carrying. It was not totally shredded because the pressure cooker was not shredded.
Mick, since close to 50% of my friends believe just about every conspiracy coming down the pike, I try to be as thorough as possible in offering countering evidence. I can't tell you how many friends either sent me that supposed smoking gun backpack video or posted it on FB.

I'm still not convinced that there would have been much left of the backpack but I'll just let that part of it play out. Just because the pressure cooker remained in a somewhat recognizable form, we're comparing heavy gauged aluminum or stainless steal to the fabric of a backpack. So I suppose it's possible that the backpack didn't disintegrate in the fireball (below), but I think it's also very possible that the backpack in the photo was not the one used to house the bomb.

Boston-Marathon-bomb-blast-courtesy-kitv.com_.jpg
 

Chuck

Member
Fair enough - but looking back at the triptych of photos (Tamerlan, the bag, the photo of Tamerlan with the bag) I think that may at least debunk the argument about the colour of the bag somewhat. That and the square are the two pieces of evidence people have been giving me first...
Edgukator, I think you make a good point about the shades and colors per different types of cameras. In the one you posted, Tamerlan's clothing and bag seem much darker than in other photos. Thanks.
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Mick, since close to 50% of my friends believe just about every conspiracy coming down the pike, I try to be as thorough as possible in offering countering evidence. I can't tell you how many friends either sent me that supposed smoking gun backpack video or posted it on FB.

I'm still not convinced that there would have been much left of the backpack but I'll just let that part of it play out. Just because the pressure cooker remained in a somewhat recognizable form, we're comparing heavy gauged aluminum or stainless steal to the fabric of a backpack. So I suppose it's possible that the backpack didn't disintegrate in the fireball (below), but I think it's also very possible that the backpack in the photo was not the one used to house the bomb.

View attachment 2505
The backpack is very light, the blast would have simply pushed it away.

I suggest that your friends go make a backpack pressure cooker bomb, and go blow it up somewhere. They don't need NIST for that.
 

Tazmanian

Account Closed
There's ALWAYS wiggle room for people who want to believe. Some people believe the video of the planes hitting the WTC was all faked.

The thing is, the FBI has the remains of the backpack. They will have already identified the precise make and model. It will come out later in the trial or the report. So all this speculation is pretty pointless.

It's mangled backpack that resembles the one he was carrying. It was not totally shredded because the pressure cooker was not shredded.
I find it interesting that the official story keeps changing to fit the facts. In the original story, there was an exchange of gunfire at the boat and the suspect's throat injury was self inflicted. Then after no gun was found, all of a sudden an exchange of gunfire was impossible, so the story was adjusted. Then the hospital reported he had multiple gunshot wounds to the head, neck, legs and hand. Were did all those injuries come from? If the hospital didn't report that information, would it ever see the light of day?
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
I find it interesting that the official story keeps changing to fit the facts. In the original story, there was an exchange of gunfire at the boat and the suspect's throat injury was self inflicted. Then after no gun was found, all of a sudden an exchange of gunfire was impossible, so the story was adjusted. Then the hospital reported he had multiple gunshot wounds to the head, neck, legs and hand. Were did all those injuries come from? If the hospital didn't report that information, would it ever see the light of day?
Define 'official' and 'original' story though? That just sounds like the nature of rolling journalism, if you don't view every mainstream source as a single monolithic institution.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah, there is no "official story". And of course what we know about the events keeps changing as more information comes to light. Obviously we don't know everything one second after the events, or one day, or one week.

I find it interesting that the official story keeps changing to fit the facts. In the original story, there was an exchange of gunfire at the boat and the suspect's throat injury was self inflicted. Then after no gun was found, all of a sudden an exchange of gunfire was impossible, so the story was adjusted. Then the hospital reported he had multiple gunshot wounds to the head, neck, legs and hand. Were did all those injuries come from? If the hospital didn't report that information, would it ever see the light of day?
Maybe you could quote the official sources of these claims?
 

Tazmanian

Account Closed
April 19, Boston Globe
“It’s a night where I think we’re all going to rest easy,” Governor Deval Patrick said at a news conference in Watertown.
Dzohkhar Tsarnaev, who exchanged gunfire with police from the boat, was rushed to a local hospital, where he was in serious condition, Davis said.
An FBI hostage rescue team was eventually able to pull him out.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/04/18/mit-police-officer-hit-gunfire-cambridge-police-dispatcher-says/4UeCClOVeLr8PHLvDa99zK/story.html


April 19, CNN
"There was an exchange of gunfire, and I don't know if he was struck," Davis said of the suspect.
Tsarnaev was taken into custody after authorities rushed the boat, Davis said.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/19/us/boston-area-violence

April 20, NBC
Over the course of two hours, several bursts of gunfire could be heard. The police exchanged fire with Tsarnaev, threw flash-bang grenades designed to disorient him and brought a negotiator to the scene as night fell, officials said.
Just before 9 p.m., the wounded Tsarnaev was taken into custody. "He sustained significant blood loss," a law enforcement official at the scene said.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100655686

April 20, ABC News
Investigators were unable to grill the surviving Boston Marathon bomb suspect today because he is so badly injured that he is unable to communicate.
When Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was taken into custody from the bottom of a boat in the backyard of a Watertown home Friday night, the suspect was bleeding badly and too weak to resist any longer, officials said.
It is unclear whether Tsarnaev was hit again during a final volley before his arrest in the boat.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/boston-bomb-suspect-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-clings-life/story?id=19005022#.UX61Br9dX8t

April 22
The complaint offers new details about last week's bombing and reveals that the suspect Dzokhar Tsarnaev has multiple gunshot wounds to the head, neck, legs and hand.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/22/dzhokhar-tsarnaev-criminal-complaint_n_3133865.html
April 24, The Boston Channel WCVB
WASHINGTON —Two U.S. officials say the surviving suspect in the Boston bombings was unarmed when police captured him hiding inside a boat in a neighborhood back yard.Authorities originally said they had exchanged gunfire with Dzhokhar Tsarnaev for more than one hour Friday evening before they were able to subdue him.The officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the ongoing investigation, say investigators recovered a 9 mm handgun believed to have been used by Tsarnaev's brother, Tamerlan, from the site of a gun battle Thursday night, which injured a Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority officer. Dzhokhar was believed to have been shot before he escaped.The officials tell The Associated Press that no gun was found in the boat. Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis said earlier that shots were fired from inside the boat.
http://www.wcvb.com/news/local/metro/officials-boston-marathon-bomb-suspect-unarmed-when-arrested-in-boat/-/11971628/19883950/-/ax9rwxz/-/index.html


USA today got the story right the first time
April 20
When police arrived, the official said they were able to make contact with the suspect in the boat, while a helicopter equipped with infra-red technology detected movement inside the boat.
The official did not know what the suspect told the officers, but there was discussion about whether the suspect was armed.
When he was taken into custody, the official said, Tsarnaev was not armed and no explosives were found in his possession.
Jay Blitzman, 63, a juvenile court judge who lives about a block away, said he was walking in the direction of Henneberry's house after police first allowed residents out of their homes when a stream of police vehicles rushed down the street.
"Then we heard rapid gunfire — it sounded like automatic gunfire," and police ordered everyone back inside, Blitzman said.
Pizzuto said there also were loud explosive sounds, but he didn't know whether they were caused by police or the suspect.
Police were hesitant to enter the boat because they feared the man inside could be wired with explosives, he said.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/natioone%20fund%20bostonn/2013/04/20/boston-bombing-suspect-boat-backyard/2099377/
 

Tazmanian

Account Closed
April 20, CBS Boston
BOSTON (CBS) —
Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, theBoston Marathon bombings
suspect captured alive Friday, may have tried to commit suicide before he was apprehended, according to CBS News.
Tsarnaev suffered at least two bullet wounds — including one to his neck — before he was arrested in Watertown, CBS News security analyst John Miller said Saturday night.
The bullet wound to the neck, which has an exit wound in the back of the 19-year-old’s neck, “is very possibly a suicide attempt,” said Miller, a former assistant director at the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/04/20/cbs-news-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-may-have-attempted-suicide-before-capture/


And yet we see him climbing out of the boat. So when did he do that? Before or after an hour or two of gunfire "exchange" ??? When did he sustain multiple gunshot wounds? Before or after he climbed out?
At what point did he become too weak from the loss of blood?
 

joelb79

Active Member
April 20, CBS Boston
And yet we see him climbing out of the boat. So when did he do that? Before or after an hour or two of gunfire "exchange" ??? When did he sustain multiple gunshot wounds? Before or after he climbed out? At what point did he become too weak from the loss of blood?
Perhaps he did not get weak from loss of blood. I mean, it is entirely possible that somebody can sustain a serious injury that does not bleed out all of the blood from a person. You are assuming that a bullet wound means instant death and loss of all blood in the body, but the reality is that many people are shot and live; and even walk or drive themselves to the hospital all the time with said wounds.
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
Remember too that journalism often relies on other journalism. An error in a wire upon which hacks are relying for their info can be repeated across a lot of networks.

It's who was reporting on the scene, and what information went out on the Associated Press at that time I'd be trying to find out.
 

Tazmanian

Account Closed
Perhaps he did not get weak from loss of blood. I mean, it is entirely possible that somebody can sustain a serious injury that does not bleed out all of the blood from a person. You are assuming that a bullet wound means instant death and loss of all blood in the body, but the reality is that many people are shot and live; and even walk or drive themselves to the hospital all the time with said wounds.
I'm not assuming anything, I'm just following the story as it gets reported by officials who are on the scene and in a position of authority to say what happened. If they say it, I want to believe it.

After he had the strength to climb out of the boat, at some point after that he was on the ground with a tube down his throat and blood on his face. (Blood can sometimes get on your face during intubation, but not if a skilled person is doing it. An EMT is very skilled, this is a procedure they do all the time.)
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UzggtXRSNd4/UXIBuSyVvKI/AAAAAAAAgmE/xRGi8l44RnY/s1600/ca11.PNG

And then he was in an ambulance on a stretcher.
http://www.wgbh.org/News/Articles/2013/4/19/How_It_Unfolded_Boston_Bombing_Suspect_Taken_Into_Custody.cfm

And then we was at the hospital in critical condition "fighting for life"
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/5-year-old-boston-victim-article-1.1319272

and
'clinging to life'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2312215/Dzhokhar-Tsarnaev-clinging-life-hospital-just-yards-11-victims-Battle-terror-suspect-alive-FBI-waits-quiz-plot.html

I'm simply trying to follow the sequence of events as they're reported by people on the scene who have the authority to call a SWAT team, Black Hawk helicopters, military armored vehicles, and can authorize a lockdown.

Then there's also this report "
according to a law enforcement official"
April 21, The New York Times
The authorities found an M-4 carbine rifle — a weapon similar to ones used by American forces in Afghanistan — on the boat where the younger suspect was found Friday night in Watertown, Mass.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/22/us/boston-marathon-bombing-suspects-hoped-to-attack-again.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Really? That's interesting. Who found it? Why don't we hear any more about that? Did they or did they not find a weapon on the boat? Who is the "law enforcement official" who gave this statement to the news reporter?

According to the same report:
"Two handguns and a BB gun that the authorities believe the brothers used in an earlier shootout with officers in Watertown were also recovered, said one official briefed on the investigation."

That official was briefed, he wasn't actually there. The official who was there was not authorized to say anything, but according to him, only one weapon was recovered from the first shootout, a 9 mm pistol.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/24/officials-boston-bombing-suspects-one-gun_n_3148609.html
 

Tazmanian

Account Closed
Since all these weapons have been recovered, or not, I'm waiting to hear which one matches the bullet that killed the security officer at MIT. None have been matched so far. Days later. Nothing.

Why did they go to MIT again? Neither one of them attended school there. Were they even there?
 

F4Jock

Active Member
April 24
Time to clear up all those loose ends:

No one robbed the 7/11, no weapons found in the boat, only one gun recovered at the first shootout, no one knows who killed the MIT officer.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/us/officers-killing-spurred-pursuit-in-boston-attack.html?smid=tw-share&pagewanted=all&_r=0

Who lied? Several people in an attempt to cover their a** maybe?

Ever hear of something called "Fog of war?" Ever been in one to experience it? Ever been a "Journalist" trying to scoop another? Ever seen or heard unqualified people jump to conclusions? Ever jumped to an erroneous conclusion yourself? Maybe this is all of that even more?

I want to wait for the forensics before I conclude anything, don't you?
 

Tazmanian

Account Closed
Ever hear of something called "Fog of war?" Ever been in one to experience it? Ever been a "Journalist" trying to scoop another? Ever seen or heard unqualified people jump to conclusions? Ever jumped to an erroneous conclusion yourself? Maybe this is all of that even more?

I want to wait for the forensics before I conclude anything, don't you?
Ever been in jail, on a trumped up charge, waiting for the forensic report? It will come back whatever they want it to be. Ever been a parent?

I'm not saying he's not guilty.

I'm happy that in this case, so many people were involved who don't usually work together, if someone wanted to plant weapons at the scene, it wouldn't be as easy to do this time.
 

woodsman

New Member
CORRECTION: I've found another sharper photo which I presume was taken after the bombing (since people are running away from something), and it appears that Dzhokhar is no longer wearing his backpack. The photo of his brother is too blurry to make that same determination.

View attachment 2486
It might appear to you but to the [conspiracy theorists] it appears that the FBI photoshopped the picture.
 

JRBids

Senior Member
I find it interesting that the official story keeps changing to fit the facts. In the original story, there was an exchange of gunfire at the boat and the suspect's throat injury was self inflicted. Then after no gun was found, all of a sudden an exchange of gunfire was impossible, so the story was adjusted. Then the hospital reported he had multiple gunshot wounds to the head, neck, legs and hand. Were did all those injuries come from? If the hospital didn't report that information, would it ever see the light of day?
Sounds more like the media jumped the gun again and quoted someone who was wrong. What would have stopped "them" from simply PLANTING a gun if they needed to have on there?
 

Edgukator

Member
And yes, journalism is not what it used to be regarding neutrality (if it ever was really neutral), but every1 is used to it now...
Or should be
Mate - what I presented wasn't evidence of a lack of neutrality - it was a series of big time examples of news media getting the fundamental facts wrong because there is a tendency to announce news before facts are confirmed. The argument being made is that the news is changing the "official story" and the evidence presented was (among other things) a series of articles where "facts" released early in the reporting were contradicted by facts reported later. What I was showing was that this was common, not because of neutrality but because of a haphazard approach to journalism.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member
Take the West fertilizer explosion, there were numerous reports of 50-70 folks killed. The accurate number was 14.
 
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