Debunk: imgur: "Boston Truth Revealed"

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Mick West

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Three guys that look vaguely alike?

As for the link to the images, perhaps you could pick the one you find the most troubling?
 

Rroval

Member
No, you've got to pick the most disturbing one. That's how it works if you want things debunked.

Pick one, and explain why you can't debunk it.
I cannot pick one since all of the pictures in the link are interconnected to form 'one big picture' (which is how conspiracies are constructed) and are troubling which is what I intended is to debunk all those pictures contained in the link.

It's more like I "Pick this picture" which once that's debunked and but I'll say "but what about this" which it get's tedious from there, that's why to best to debunk all those pictures contained in the link since all of them are troubling.
 

Mick West

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Staff member
I cannot pick one since all of the pictures in the link are interconnected to form 'one big picture' (which is how conspiracies are constructed) and are troubling which is what I intended is to debunk all those pictures contained in the link.
So if any one was false then it would not be a conspiracy then?
 

Rroval

Member
So if any one was false then it would not be a conspiracy then?
Well what I'm saying though that people gather these pictures and put them into a single gallery which the message is "there is a bigger conspiracy going on here".

Actually if you want specifics, there's one that says "While you were distracted by the Boston Bombings, Congress passed CISPA" and also "All this to find one Man?" and also the 4chan post.
 

Drew

Active Member
I find it curious that some people think that the government (or whoever) is ostensibly capable and disciplined enough to execute a massive "false flag" operation to manipulate the media and the public, but also dumb enough to put key agents and actors on TV.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Well what I'm saying though that people gather these pictures and put them into a single gallery which the message is "there is a bigger conspiracy going on here".
That's certainly what they are suggesting, yes.

Does it take ALL of the photos to convince you? If there was one less, would it still do it? What if there were two less?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I find it curious that some people think that the government (or whoever) is ostensibly capable and disciplined enough to execute a massive "false flag" operation to manipulate the media and the public, but also dumb enough to put key agents and actors on TV.
I've read somewhere that they are compelled to leave clues (and episodes of Family Guy) because of some illuminati truth-telling code of conduct. Really.
 

Rroval

Member
Does it take ALL of the photos to convince you? If there was one less, would it still do it? What if there were two less?
Well I think you didn't see that I recently edited my post since I included some specifics on there.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Actually if you want specifics, there's one that says "While you were distracted by the Boston Bombings, Congress passed CISPA" and also "All this to find one Man?" and also the 4chan post.
CISPA would pass regardless. All that to find the worst terrorist bomber in a decade. 4Chan claims it would be pinned on one male and there were two.
 

Drew

Active Member
Well what I'm saying though that people gather these pictures and put them into a single gallery which the message is "there is a bigger conspiracy going on here".
But that's their key tactic. This goes back to Loose Change or Zeitgeist — or Protocols of the Elders of Zion for that matter. CT rhetoric is never about crafting a testable, evidence-based hypothesis. It's about throwing all the crap it can at the wall and seeing what sticks. They confuse quantity of evidence with quality of evidence. This is why Mick is trying to get you to cite at least one specific thing you find compelling.

I see lots of photos here with lots of things going on that don't particularly add up to anything. And I also see photos of Obama and law enforcement with spooky, sinister captions that lead me to believe these people have already made up their minds about what they think is going on.
 
Three guys that look vaguely alike?

As for the link to the images, perhaps you could pick the one you find the most troubling?


"Three guys that look vaguely alike ~ MIck".

Exactly. Not one or even 2 but 3 and all 3 are together in the same pics, both pics. Now if either pic were a Photoshop composite of multiple pics so as to place 3 persons together that otherwise were not together then yeah you would be right but that does not appear to be the case here. this goes back to the whole "That’s just coincidence" line that so many debunkers go with.

If my kid came home and told me the dog ate his homework then yeah it might be true. If the dog ate it on a day it was due and no make up was allowed after I could see where it would be a coincidence that the event happened as it did when it did. However if there are several other far-reaching "coincidences" that are all necessary to produce a complete explanation then I'm going to know that coincidences are not things that come in large groupings. How many "coincidences" and "odd/strange/unexplainable" things have to occur around the same event before debunkers will stop saying “that’s just a coincidence” and realize something is not right. It doesn’t mean you have to admit the conspiracy is right but to say all the related coincidences are just coincidences says a lot on its own about just how big a leap of faith a debunker has to take to dismiss the conspiracy; far more of a leap sometimes then is required top believe the theory.
 

Grieves

Senior Member
the 'backpack' photos are a little odd. The suspects do seem to be wearing backpacks that don't closely resemble the one which apparently contained a device.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
the 'backpack' photos are a little odd. The suspects do seem to be wearing backpacks that don't closely resemble the one which apparently contained a device.
The older brother is carry a dark backpack, which looks like the one that exploded - as far as you can tell, since it's shredded:



 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
"Three guys that look vaguely alike ~ MIck".

Exactly. Not one or even 2 but 3 and all 3 are together in the same pics, both pics. Now if either pic were a Photoshop composite of multiple pics so as to place 3 persons together that otherwise were not together then yeah you would be right but that does not appear to be the case here. this goes back to the whole "That’s just coincidence" line that so many debunkers go with.

If my kid came home and told me the dog ate his homework then yeah it might be true. If the dog ate it on a day it was due and no make up was allowed after I could see where it would be a coincidence that the event happened as it did when it did. However if there are several other far-reaching "coincidences" that are all necessary to produce a complete explanation then I'm going to know that coincidences are not things that come in large groupings. How many "coincidences" and "odd/strange/unexplainable" things have to occur around the same event before debunkers will stop saying “that’s just a coincidence” and realize something is not right. It doesn’t mean you have to admit the conspiracy is right but to say all the related coincidences are just coincidences says a lot on its own about just how big a leap of faith a debunker has to take to dismiss the conspiracy; far more of a leap sometimes then is required top believe the theory.
Three guys that look vaguely alike is not a coincidence, it's inevitable.

 
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jvnk08

Active Member
I would just like to point out that secretly passing CISPA as a motive for the supposed false flag doesn't hold much water. CISPA only passed the House, and seeing as it's the Republican-sponsored version of the bill it makes a lot of sense. It was never hush-hush either, most people just don't really pay attention to these things. CISPA has been a common topic for weeks on various tech sites I frequent, well before it passed the House.
 

JRBids

Senior Member
I find it curious that some people think that the government (or whoever) is ostensibly capable and disciplined enough to execute a massive "false flag" operation to manipulate the media and the public, but also dumb enough to put key agents and actors on TV.

Using the same people over and over again.
 

JRBids

Senior Member
I don't see 3 guys that look vaguely alike. I see ONE GUY who looks like the other (The one with the sunglasses on his head) and two who look nothing like the other two. The one's hairline is not the same, for example.
 

F4Jock

Active Member
I don't see 3 guys that look vaguely alike. I see ONE GUY who looks like the other (The one with the sunglasses on his head) and two who look nothing like the other two. The one's hairline is not the same, for example.
Came to the same conclusions.

Once I was at an auction and saw a woman who was the image of someone I'd known well for four years, one Barbara S. Even walked up and asked if that was who she was. Surprise and embarrassment: No.
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member
(Warning: Gore)
http://imgur.com/a/Nx8EU


Can any of these be debunked?

Also not from the link but also this photo from some conspiracy forum.
it seems there's been a rash of posts about facial comparisons lately. I knew I made a post a while back about the biases of facial recognition. Well, I finally found it...

https://www.metabunk.org/posts/12190

Here's a link to the original study: http://www.psy.gla.ac.uk/docs/downlo...=PUBLS&id=1808



The bottom line is that if you don't personally know the people in the images, it's very easy for them to be misidentified.

joseph-gordon-levitt-heath-ledger.jpgJoseph Gordon Levitt and Heath Leger

françois-cluzet-dustin-hoffman.jpgDustin Hoffman and Francois Cluzet...
 
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Dylt

New Member
A few observations on the photos for whatever they are worth:

1. The Craft International guys are all wearing a uniform of tan pants and boots, black shirts and jackets, along with backpacks. Both the shirts and hats have the Craft logo that can be found on their website. Its pretty clear they were brought in for security for the event and had a very visible presence. That is why they are not suspects. Investigators knew exactly who they were.
2. The pictures that are supposed be of Tamerlan arrested alive are ludicrous. The naked guy has no body hair and Tamerlan obvioulsy does from his boxing pics and autopsy. The guy laying prone bears no resemblance, particularly his hair.
3. The photo angles on the boat and the suspect climbing out are not comprehensivem taken from a distance and certainly his face is obscured. The blood on the tarp is described as a small amount. His shirt does appear to be blood soaked.
4. The 4chan note is completely off base on so many key points it is meaningless (single bomber, NRA manual, re-loading powder?)
5. Finally, given the situation, I would hope a well equipped army of law enforcement personnel would be placed into action. At the time no one was sure what was going on. Multiple acts of horrific violence and murders, gun fights with police, a well armed assailant on the loose in a residential area after already detonating three pressure cooker bombs and other IEDs. I would expect a show of force like nothing we have ever seen.
 

lotek

Active Member
yea big mac and shape shifter deff look nothing like the hat guys... wait didnt we see that lizard guy at one of obama's speeches!?!

it always strikes me as odd, people's own ego or lack of self awareness when they think they can draw such conclusions. has NO ONE read or heard about the huge list of eye witness invalidation experiments where they have purple dinosaurs and shit run into basket ball games and stuff and noone notices?

to think your mind so trained.... nothing but an egotistical attempt at validating your own self importance in a time of crisis which makes you feel unimportant, small and powerless. a manner in which you feel you can exert some degree of control over the situation around you... thats all this is ever i feel.
 

Melbury's Brick

Active Member
(Cross reference from Pete Tar's post in the Boston: Navy Seals thread).

In the two photos labelled "2 members of Craft international standing at blast zone #1 and leaving just before the bomb went off" the upper pic (they're holding phones to their ears) is taken from a larger image of the scene after the bombings. they both still have their backpacks. The "Not a suspect....not a suspect....ignore these men" picture is the same one, taken after the blast.
 
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jvnk08

Active Member
From a brief look at Craft International, I see nowhere on their site that they contract security. Lots of different kinds of training(including counterterrorism), but no actual personnel for hire. I think it's quite likely the guys went through Craft training given what they are doing after the blast(well, the guy with the hat at least since that is the only thing identifying as Craft - the 5.11 gear is available to anyone and popular with all kinds of law enforcement/military).
 

Edgukator

Member
(well, the guy with the hat at least since that is the only thing identifying as Craft).
I wouldn't be too hasty to identify the hat as a Craft International cap. Are you sure it isn't this hat?

New-Era-Punisher-League-Basic-5950.jpg

That's a new era Punisher cap (you can verify that at this website). Punisher as in Marvel Comics "the Punisher". In fact I'm surprised Marvel hasn't sued Craft over logo infringement. How many comic book fans in that crowd do you think might be misidentified as mercenaries?
 

davefb

New Member
it seems there's been a rash of posts about facial comparisons lately. I knew I made a post a while back about the biases of facial recognition. Well, I finally found it...

https://www.metabunk.org/posts/12190

Here's a link to the original study: http://www.psy.gla.ac.uk/docs/downlo...=PUBLS&id=1808



The bottom line is that if you don't personally know the people in the images, it's very easy for them to be misidentified.

View attachment 2434Joseph Gordon Levitt and Heath Leger

View attachment 2435Dustin Hoffman and Francois Cluzet...

hmm you might be onto something, i've never seen dustin hoffman and francois cluzet in the same room together..


sometimes, you just despair.. but of course, if you look hard enough for something, you find it.
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
hmm you might be onto something, i've never seen dustin hoffman and francois cluzet in the same room together..


sometimes, you just despair.. but of course, if you look hard enough for something, you find it.
Like:
 
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I've mentioned how people look the same and been called a racist before.

The 3rd person in those pictures, the hairlines aren't the same.

Ahhhhhhh, but they could've changed his hairline to throw you off the scent.

Well, if they were gonna do that they'd make them all look much more different (than they already frikkin' do anyway).

There's a lot of this type of sleuthing in the Sandy Hook episode too. It beggars belief.
 
And as has been pointed out before, the creator of this site used to dance with the Happy Mondays.



Or not.

In this case I'd rather be a conspiracy theorist and believe I was posting on Bez's forum. Sorry Mick.
 
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jvnk08

Active Member
I wouldn't be too hasty to identify the hat as a Craft International cap. Are you sure it isn't this hat?

View attachment 2449

That's a new era Punisher cap (you can verify that at this website). Punisher as in Marvel Comics "the Punisher". In fact I'm surprised Marvel hasn't sued Craft over logo infringement. How many comic book fans in that crowd do you think might be misidentified as mercenaries?
I'm almost certain it's the Craft International hat, but regardless of whether it is or not it doesn't really mean anything special. You can buy the hat here: http://www.511craft.com/
and here:
http://co-store.com/craftgear

In the zoomed image from the imgur album it looks like there's something red on the forehead of the skull, but that could just be an artifact. There's also some text on the back of the cap. See this comparison:

 
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Edgukator

Member
I'm almost certain it's the Craft International hat, but regardless of whether it is or not it doesn't really mean anything special. You can buy the hat here: http://www.511craft.com/
and here:
http://co-store.com/craftgear
Agreed - the evidence does tend to weight on the side of Craft.

I've been looking to try and find an image of the left hand side of the Punisher cap and haven't been able to find one. Having said that, there are a large number of different versions of the Punisher cap and while I haven't seen a white-on-black cap from the left, there are other versions of the cap (black-on-white and red-on-black) that have the Marvel logo on the right hand side of the cap and the Marvel logo is, you guessed it, red and rectangular. So there is still an outside chance that it could be just a Marvel cap.

41LFZWGJhnL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Like you said, though, you can order these for online... so big whoop, right.

Oh, and bitshare did a piece on this as well, and they have an interesting photo from behind some of these guys.

Nx5glxm.jpg

Not Craft, National Guard, but as these guys are more likely to be interested in military organisations, means they are more likely to buy the paraphernalia. You can read the Bitshare article here.
 

jvnk08

Active Member
Agreed - the evidence does tend to weight on the side of Craft.

I've been looking to try and find an image of the left hand side of the Punisher cap and haven't been able to find one. Having said that, there are a large number of different versions of the Punisher cap and while I haven't seen a white-on-black cap from the left, there are other versions of the cap (black-on-white and red-on-black) that have the Marvel logo on the right hand side of the cap and the Marvel logo is, you guessed it, red and rectangular. So there is still an outside chance that it could be just a Marvel cap.

Like you said, though, you can order these for online... so big whoop, right.

Oh, and bitshare did a piece on this as well, and they have an interesting photo from behind some of these guys.

Not Craft, National Guard, but as these guys are more likely to be interested in military organisations, means they are more likely to buy the paraphernalia. You can read the Bitshare article here.
Agreed. That's why I said it doesn't matter even if it is a Craft cap - they could simply have bought one or have received one after receiving Craft training. From my research on Craft, training is all they do so they're not exactly a PMC. I think it's quite likely they could have received training from them, Craft apparently offers a wide range of training including several courses centered around counterterrorism.
 
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