Claim: Malaysian experts were shot at by Ukraine SU-25 and by GRAD

mvdb22

Member
In this video Alexander Borodai said the the team of 12 Malaysian experts were shot at by a SU-25 while enroute from Kharkiv to Donetsk. The team later was attacked by the Ukraine army with GRAD shelling.

The reason according to Borodai was to prevent the team from getting to the MH17 crash site.

The statement by Borodai starts at 21:00 in the video

I have not found any prove for this statemen the in press. Maybe someone has?
 

jonnyH

Senior Member.
In this video Alexander Borodai said the the team of 12 Malaysian experts were shot at by a SU-25 while enroute from Kharkiv to Donetsk. The team later was attacked by the Ukraine army with GRAD shelling.
I don't think its unfair to expect some corroboration from the Malaysian authorities but it seems they are more concerned about cold weather;
http://www.thesundaily.my/news/1199428
and difficult negotiations with disparate separatist groups:
http://www.thesundaily.my/news/1199428
http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/10/15/MH17-negotiation-crash-site/
In the absence of supporting evidence, which given the allegations should be plentiful, Borodai's word is not worth much.
 

mvdb22

Member
The supposed attack by SU-25 and GRAD happened around July 12.

JonnyH -> you are quoting articles dating from October. So this does not say anything about the statement I like to debunk or confirmed!

I have my strong doubts about Borodai's words as well.
 

Rob

Member
I'm sorry. We got off to a bumpy start, although I believe that the exact date (and time and place) is important in this case to successfully debunk or confirm the statements made.

To get started on this, I suggest that we separate the allegations by Borodai about the trip of 12 Malaysian experts into three parts :

1) When the team of 12 Malaysian experts "arrived near the village of Yasinovataya, their car was attacked from the air by a SU-25 of the Ukrainian air force", and

2) "on their way to Donetsk, they ended up under a Ukrainian GRAD shelling".

3) the reason that the Ukrainians did (1) and (2) is to "prevent the team from getting to the MH17 crash site".

Assuming that these three statements are a fair definition of the claim in this case, I'd like to start with a quick assessment :

Regarding (1) Borodai knows that there is no evidence to debunk (1), since it never happened. So we can never debunk it.

Regarding point (2), even if we showed proof that GRAD shelling of Donetsk on the 21st was actually done by Borodai's own forces then we still cannot even debunk point (2) because Borodai stated "on their way to" Donetsk, not "in" Donetsk. Besides, that shelling happened in the morning and the Malaysians arrived in the evening.

Regarding (3), note that Borodai does not say explicitly that "the reason".."was to prevent the team from getting to the MH17 crash site". That reason is only implied because of the prior statements he makes from the 19:00 mark. And both you and me fell for that.

The REAL reason that the 12 Malaysian experts went to Donetsk on the 21st was to obtain the MH17 flight recorders. Which they did, eventually, after hours of negotiations with ... Mr. Borodai himself...

Considering that Borodai did not provide ANY evidence to his statements, I would like to make a counter-statement that is sustained by the little evidence we have, and does not suffer from Borodai's implication of reason :

When the 12 Malaysian experts went to Donetsk on the 21st, they were neither targeted by a Ukrainian SU25 nor by Ukrainian GRADs, while Mr. Borodai's own pro-Russian forces fired GRAD missiles on civilian targets in Donetsk in the morning of the 21st, for which they promptly blamed the Ukrainians, while the Malaysian experts went to Donetsk to obtain the flight recorders for MH17, which they did after hours of negotiations providing undisclosed concessions to Mr. Borodai himself.

That should not be hard to debunk if it is not true.
 
Last edited:

Ray Von Geezer

Senior Member.
This RT news report Ukraine air force strikes 30km from plane crash site despite ban from the 22nd mentions both GRAD and airstrikes, but only that 12 Malaysian officials witnessed an artillery attack on their way to Donetsk, not that they actually came under attack.

Ray Von
 

mvdb22

Member
Thanks Ray, I was looking for this kind of press reports. However RT is not the most reliable news source. I guess from the lack of confirmation in Malaysian press we can safely conclude the attack never happened.
 

Ray Von Geezer

Senior Member.
Thanks Ray, I was looking for this kind of press reports. However RT is not the most reliable news source. I guess from the lack of confirmation in Malaysian press we can safely conclude the attack never happened.
I agree re: RT, but I think the value of that particular report is that they didn't report it as a direct attack on the inspectors. If it had been (or even if someone had hinted it was) I'm sure they would have been pushing it quite hard.

As you say, the clearest indicator is the lack of any reports in the Malaysian press, or accusations from the inspectors themselves.

Ray Von
 

Rob

Member
I agree re: RT, but I think the value of that particular report is that they didn't report it as a direct attack on the inspectors. If it had been (or even if someone had hinted it was) I'm sure they would have been pushing it quite hard.

As you say, the clearest indicator is the lack of any reports in the Malaysian press, or accusations from the inspectors themselves.

Ray Von

Also interesting is that RT cites their source as "the militia in the east", for which the PR spokesperson is... Mr. Borodai himself.
 
Last edited:
Thread starter Related Articles Forum Replies Date
Mick West Claim: Faraday Cage Experiment with radios contacts Non-Human Intelligence UFOs and Aliens 48
Oystein Debunked: Claim that Bobby McIlvaine's injuries ("lacerations") are best explained as result of glass shards and debris from bombs 9/11 20
J Claim: Genomic analysis of SARS-CoV-2 shows that it already existed in other countries such as France, India, Netherlands, England and United States Coronavirus COVID-19 1
D Claim: Videos of people exhaling vape smoke through a mask, demonstrate masks as useless against a virus.. Coronavirus COVID-19 42
Peter Robert Malone and Steve Kirsch claim spike protein is Cytotoxic Coronavirus COVID-19 18
Rory Claim: The Indian/Chinese systems of nadis/meridians have been proved by science because of hyaluronic acid and piezoelectricity Health and Quackery 105
V Needs debunking: flat earthers claim this reflection to show a harness in ISS video Flat Earth 10
T Claim: Communist Gus Hall express support for LBJ's Great Society Quotes Debunked 3
P Claim: Ghost of deceased Soldier, Freddy Jackson, captured in a photo UFOs and Aliens 18
T Claim: Heritage Foundation article asserts that Sex Ed programs encourage porn use General Discussion 2
T Claim: Willi Munzenberg said that ''We must make Western Civilisation stink'' Quotes Debunked 2
H CLAIM: USS Omaha videos were taken on the ship's "Combat Information Center" by "VIPER team" UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 5
gtoffo CLAIM: Sen. Martin Heinrich on UFOs (Senate Select Committee on Intelligence Member) UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 10
R Flat Earth Claim: "The Greatest Laser Experiment In History" - FECORE Flat Earth 11
Mick West Claim that the Nimitz FLIR1 object could not be a plane because it would have been Identified UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 54
T Claim: Jim Hoffman's "9/11 progressive collapse challenge" can't be met 9/11 348
BigFatAtheist Claim: MI Court: Michigan Secretary of State’s Absentee Ballot Order Broke Law, Vindicating Trump Claim Election 2020 6
TEEJ Debunked: Claim that Joe Biden's hand passes through microphone during White House press gaggle, 16th March 2021 Election 2020 8
S Claim: "Most U.S. terror deaths have come from 'extreme right wing groups' in recent years" General Discussion 14
G Claim: China refused to hand "key data" to WHO delegation during the recent investigation in Wuhan Coronavirus COVID-19 29
P Claim: NASA tried to stop Spielberg's 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind' Quotes Debunked 21
Mick West Mike Lindell's 2-Hour Election Fraud Claim Video "Absolute Proof": Hacking Claims Election 2020 7
P Claim: NASA cuts ISS livestream after "Millennium Falcon UFO" enters the frame UFOs and Aliens 16
P Claim: Admiral Byrd's "secret diary" proves hollow earth Flat Earth 9
P Claim: UFOs appeared at the Stadio Artemio Franchi in Florence UFOs and Aliens 15
P Claim: 1990 Calvine UFO UFOs and Aliens 24
P Claim: Men in black "Threatened a hotel manager" in 2009 UFOs and Aliens 14
P "Deleted Votes" Claim, 2020 Election, Erie County, New York Election 2020 16
T Claim: Thousands of fraudulent votes in Georgia cast by felons, dead, underage voters Election 2020 6
Rory Claim: Li Hongzhi (founder of Falun Gong) was made an honorary citizen of Houston, Atlanta and Georgia People Debunked 1
P Claim: "Dogman" spotted on a Facebook livestream Ghosts, Monsters, and the Paranormal 35
Mick West Debunked: Claim that the Electoral College Count On Jan 6 will Change the Election Election 2020 136
P Claim: Biden campaign short code '30330' is veiled message Election 2020 29
Mick West Debunked: Trump's Claim of "1,126,940 votes created out of thin air" in PA Election 2020 8
P Claim: UFO Black Knight Satellite spotted over Philippines UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 3
Mick West Explained: Trump's Claim of Suspicious Early Morning Michigan Bump [It's Detroit] Election 2020 1
Mick West Claim: R-Squared Coefficient of Determination as a Election Fraud Signal Election 2020 5
Akton Claim: Ballots in Wayne County were run through the tabulator and counted as many as 4-5 times Election 2020 16
Mick West Trump's Claim that "THE OBSERVERS WERE NOT ALLOWED INTO THE COUNTING ROOMS." Election 2020 6
P Claim: Authorities supressed alleged UFO findings of a reporter of the 1965 Kecksburg crash UFOs and Aliens 7
M Claim: Hints of life on Venus: Scientists detect phosphine molecules in high cloud decks UFOs and Aliens 21
Shade sitter Claim: Covid vaccine gives you "Serpent" DNA/marks you 666 Coronavirus COVID-19 9
P Claim: Ronald Reagan warned the world of aliens/alien invasion UFOs and Aliens 4
P Claim: Man took photo of an alien spacecraft in 2016 UFOs and Aliens 21
Arugula Claim: Only 6% of COVID deaths are "real" - the rest died due to comorbidities Coronavirus COVID-19 12
P Claim: Finding of potentially chemiluminescent compound in soil proves aliens landed UFOs and Aliens 11
M Claim: UFO performs sharp maneuver after laser pointer directly hits craft UFOs and Aliens 20
Critical Thinker Claim: Correlations Between Media Preference and Coronavirus Infection Rates Coronavirus COVID-19 11
L Claim: NASA is doctoring an image [Scanner Dirt] UFOs and Aliens 7
Z.W. Wolf Claim: Martin Gugino Was Using a "Police Tracker." Conspiracy Theories 44
Related Articles


















































Related Articles

Top