1. tadaaa

    tadaaa Active Member

    It would be interesting to know what "issues" Ian Simpson had with the paper
     
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  2. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    I was the person who sent Herndon and Editor Dr. Tchounwou the attachments Herndon is referring to. Here is a copy of the email they received,which I advised them to share with Dane Wigington:
    https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-j...nce-india-and-ijerph.t6456/page-7#post-164238

    Considering the references show indisputably that aluminum, being one of the top three crustal elements, is commonly found in dry deposition of mineral dust back before the Industrial Age as shown in the ice cores from Antarctica.
    The Editor knows that fact, Herndon knows it, and just getting that word out means they can no longer have deniability going forward. If they do, it can only be out of deliberate deception.
     
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  3. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    I doubt that Mick had any personal contact with the Editor, but I paid a five minute visit to him at his office and handed him some handwritten criticisms written into the margins on a copy of the Herndon paper. I asked him to look into it, but didn't insist on a retraction. Dr. Tchounwou told me that he was already aware of the controversy before I visited him, but a face-to-face likely showed him that there were probably serious problems in the paper and people were interested.
     
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  4. Charlesinsandiego

    Charlesinsandiego New Member

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  5. Critical Thinker

    Critical Thinker Senior Member

    It seems that Herndon's other claim to fame, of a "georeactor" hypothesis has also been dis-proven as well. I guess all he has left is the adoration and attention from the Chemtrail Conspiracy promoters who seek anything that superficially seems credible to post to their websites.

    Link

     
  6. cmnit

    cmnit Member

    Exactly! I edited myself that sentence with reference ;-) Italians are heavily involved in neutrino detection experiments :)
     
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  7. skephu

    skephu Senior Member

    I'm at a loss for words after watching this... I don't even know what this is. Should I cry or should I laugh?

     
  8. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Probably both. It's sad that people are so deep into the belief. But also the more ridiculous they make things, the more it has the potential to prompt people to ask if the theory actually holds up to serious examination.
     
  9. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    I've noticed that the mere fact that claims are so far out has a way of enhancing their believablilty because such claims draw more ridicule, which is then painted as part of a coverup. The more technical the subject matter, the better that works, because more people don't understand the details.
     
  10. skephu

    skephu Senior Member

    Some people think the fact that Herndon's paper was retracted indicates he is correct, and anyway he published a "Rejection Notice" where he rejected the retraction:

    From here:
    J. MARVIN HERNDON, Ph.D. — THE NEW WEAPON FOR THE ANTI-CHEMTRAILS COMMUNITY
    http://socalskywatch.net/forums/top...new-weapon-for-the-anti-chemtrails-community/
     
  11. Henk001

    Henk001 Active Member

    The next Herndon paper is in the making:
    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/monumental-air-test-planned-examine-120000099.html
    Seems two pilots (two paragliders!) will collect air samples at high altitude. Herndon will monitor the sampling and plans to publish a peer reviewed article about it
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2015
  12. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

  13. Henk001

    Henk001 Active Member

    Do you mean that this is not going to happen?
     
  14. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member


    Well that's the fox watching the hen house!
     
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  15. Chew

    Chew Senior Member

  16. skephu

    skephu Senior Member

    Who knows? It's very hard to follow what he's doing with the numbers. His numbers are off by random factors everywhere.
     
  17. Belfrey

    Belfrey Senior Member

    And of course, he's still ignoring one of the main problems with his whole premise: that you get a very similar degree of "match" if you compare the results to the average prevalence of those elements in the crust of the Earth, meaning that he could easily be detecting simple dirt and dust:

    HerndonSnowComparison.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2015
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  18. M Bornong

    M Bornong Senior Member

    According to a reply under Herndon's FB post, this is where the "sticky goo" sample was taken. It appears to be the last pile of snow melting in the shadows.

     
  19. cloudspotter

    cloudspotter Senior Member

    That doesn't look much like snow
     
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  20. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    so his "debunk" is that snow mold isnt sticky?


    add: here he shows several years of his snow mold, looks like snow mold. wonder what the composition of snow mold is.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2015
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  21. M Bornong

    M Bornong Senior Member

    It looks like different states of drying.
     
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  22. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    Is it spider webs?
     
  23. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

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  24. M Bornong

    M Bornong Senior Member

  25. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

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  26. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    From comments on that page:

     
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  27. M Bornong

    M Bornong Senior Member

  28. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    They still seem to have an idea that these tests are showing pure metallic elements, when of course they are just normal minerals. The test method breaks all compounds down into their constituent elements.
     
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  29. Critical Thinker

    Critical Thinker Senior Member

    Link to Stanford News Service

     
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  30. cmnit

    cmnit Member

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  31. Dan Page

    Dan Page Active Member

    Trying very hard to not laugh hysterically. The more they advertise this, the bigger deal it becomes IMHO. So according to this site,
    AND
     
  32. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    A very enlightening paper on the problem of detecting coal fly ash:

    http://www3.epa.gov/ttnchie1/conference/ei20/session5/smueller.pdf


    So there's the root problem (as has been said several times in the thread above). You can't tell the difference between fly ash and soil dust by chemical analysis.

    http://www.greenpeace.to/publications/philflyash.pdf
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 15, 2016
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  33. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I've added this to the OP, together with shorter quotes from the two papers above.
     
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  34. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    Herndon has a new article out in the journal Frontiers in Public Health (June 30 2016).

    PDF is here: http://nuclearplanet.com/frontiers1.pdf

    upload_2016-7-12_13-11-2.

    I haven't had time to read it properly yet, but a brief skim suggests more of the same, viz comparing dirt from different sources and finding a roughly dirt-ish elemental composition. This time he has also tested "fibrous mesh" found on grass after snow melt, aka snow mould.

    upload_2016-7-12_13-18-48.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2016
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  35. M Bornong

    M Bornong Senior Member

    The first comment has been made on the Frontiers in Public Health site. http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fpubh.2016.00139/full

    Andras Szilagyi's website: http://www.szialab.org/
     
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  36. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    i'm getting a bit 'annoyed' because i dont know the chemical letters used for each of these elements.. so maybe someone can tell me easier:

    -herndon lists 9 elements in the sticky snow goo -1 sample!- that "match" fly coal ash (although they match different coal ash samples, but that's another story)
    -Robert West tested 28 elements
    -According to this paper 1992, page 14, there are 33 elements* in fly coal ash..although this paper doesnt list Lithium but Herndon does ?

    so my question for those who dont have to look up each element for their letters (ie Be, Ca etc) how many of the elements Robert West tested are also in Coal fly ash? or in other words.. how many elements in Roberts sample don't match the signature of coal fly ash?

    *the elements in the 1992 paper are Al,As,B,Ba,Ca,Cd,Ce,Cl,Co,Cr,C?,F,Fe,Hg,I,K,Mg,Mn,Mo,Na,Ni,P,Pb,Rb,S,Sc?,Se?,Si,Sr,Th,U,V,Zn

    hrgoo.JPG
     
  37. Marin B

    Marin B Active Member

    There might be a mistake or two, but this is what I saw:

    Elements in common:
    Aluminum (AL)
    Arsenic (As)
    Barium (Ba)
    Boron (B) [tested but not detectable (ND) in West]
    Cadmium (Cd)
    Calcium (Ca)
    Chromium (Cr)
    Cobalt (Co) [detected but below quantifiable amount (<LOQ) in West]
    Iron (Fe)
    Lead (Pb)
    Potassium (K)
    Silicon (Si)
    Strontium (Sr)
    Vanadium (V)
    Zinc (Zn)

    Elements in '92 paper, not Robert West
    Cerium (Ce)
    Chlorine (Cl)
    Carbon? (C)
    Fluorine (F)
    Mercury (Hg)
    Iodine (I)
    Rubidium (Rb)
    Sulphur (S)
    Scandium (Sc)
    Selenium (Se)
    Thorium (Th)
    Uranium (U)

    Elements in Robert West, not '92 paper
    Antimony (Sb) [ND]
    Beryllium (be) [<LOQ]
    Copper (Cu)
    Lithium (Li)
    Magnesium (Mg)
    Manganese (Mn)
    Molybdenum (Mo) [<LOQ]
    Nickel (Ni)
    Silver (Ag) [ND]
    Sodium (Na)
    Thallium (Ti) [ND]
    Tin (Sn) [ND]
    Titanium
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2016
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  38. MikeG

    MikeG Active Member

    I made it through about half of the paper and it reads like a rehash of his previous work.

    Two comments:

    1. Frontiers has an interesting background and not without controversy.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontiers_Media

    http://www.nature.com/news/backlash...ed-to-list-of-questionable-publishers-1.18639

    2. I was looking at one of Herdon's tables:

    Tabulation of Data.
    It is just a list of numbers. And footnotes 2-5 for the "Internet-posted ICP-MS data" are here:
    Footnotes.
    Yea gods. I am having a distinct feeling of deja vu.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2016
  39. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    @Marin B i just realized R. West's test has the letters there too. o_O

    so basically, Herndon has 2 more elements in his fly ash than my 1992 paper, which means there are at least 35 elements in coal fly ash. and herndon "matched" 9. AND he counts "lithium" as an indicator even though his hepa tests show Lithium in only 1 of 5 tests. add: actually only half of his hepa filters show the elements he matched in his snow goo.

    I'm so confused as to where he got his conclusions from.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2016
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  40. M Bornong

    M Bornong Senior Member

    I'd like to know what Nobel Prize-winning chemist Harold C. Urey and Hans E. Suess would think about Herndon's work in general?


    http://nuclearplanet.com/Current Biography Profile.html
     
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