Florida State Government now captured by chemtrail believers

Jay Reynolds

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Florida Government Falls Under the Chemtrails Delusion

Beginning 11/20/24, two bills, SB 56 and HB 477 were filed in the Florida State Legislature.
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2025/56
https://www.flhouse.gov/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=81042&SessionId=105

In it's first hearing, under questioning about why the bill was created, the Bill's Sponsor, Senator Ileana Garcia openly said,
@ 20:00 in this video
Let's call a Spade a Spade, chemtrails, that's the term the conspiracy theorists, ha ha, are coined with, But think about the concerns, the health risks...."

1743695092356.png


On the citizen side, promoters of these bills was the Global Wellness Forum, founded by Sayer Ji and Edward Group, alternative health activists and Marla Maples, former wife of President Trump.
https://globalwellnessforum.org/about/leadership-team/

The Global Wellness Forum's science council includes Dane Wigington, the most prominent chemtrails promoter of the last two decades, Tennessee State Senator Monty Frits, and Danielle Goodrich, Chairwoman of the Washington County, TN Republican party.

Over the past several years, Jolie Diane and Susan Clark of Zerogeoengineering have written and ushered bills to ban geoengineering and weather modification in many state legislatures.

In 2024, Tennessee passed such a bill which was eventually signed into law by the State's Governor.

However, since putative 'chemtrails' are ordinary contrails made by airliners full of passengers on scheduled routes, During 2024 and up to now in 2025 people in Tennessee kept seeing them to much consternation.

The TN state agency tasked with enforcing the law, TDEC, testified they did not have the resources to enforce the law, that such monitoring is "impossible" and that the law was unenforceable since Federal Law gave sole authority to regulate aviation emissions.
See video @ 40:00: https://tnga.granicus.com/player/clip/31542?view_id=775&redirect=true

Sometime during passage of Florida Senate Bill 56 through hearings, persons unknown but assumed to be the Global Wellness Forum began influencing Florida State government officials to believe in chemtrails. It is known that Mark Whiteside, a recently retired official of the Florida Department of Health has been working with Dr. Marvin Herndon publishing prolificly on pay-for-play scientific journals and writing a book on their claim that millions of tons of coal fly ash has been added to jet fuel. The chemtrails hoax gambit about fly ash dates to 2015 from a video by the Haarp report, a prolific hoaxer.

Dr. Joseph Ladapo, Surgeon General of Florida, heads the Department of Health and it is assumed by me that he has had communication with Whiteside and Herndon on the subject.

During testimony on Senate Bill 56, Retired Judge Bradford L. Thomas said he believed in chemtrails, felt assaulted by them, and it is likely that his testimony influenced some Florida State officials, possibly the Attorney General.

Source: https://x.com/G_W_Forum/status/1902165926365040811
 
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Florida Government Falls Under the Chemtrails Delusion

State Representative Kevin Steele, who introduced House Bill 477, the companion bill to S-56, has likely been working to influence state government. In a meeting I had on 4/1/25 with Steele, he told me that he fully believed there was a large scale geoengineering operation going on. Asked what evidence he had, his aide showed me a photo of what appeared to be an aged persistent contrail with fall streaks, and a screen shot of a Flightradar24 track from a plane whose Id was masked on that app. The plane, he said, had departed the Lakeland, FL airport, flown north reaching 26,000 feet, and then returned to Lakeland. I asked the aide if they had gone to the Lakeland airport to investigate but he told me they had not, if was too far away from Talahassee.

Steele also mentioned he had a list of 37,000 patents related to weather modification.
When I asked his aide how that list was compiled, I was told they had entered multiple search terms like "geoengineering", "weather modification", "aluminum", "barium", and "strontium" into a patent database to get that number of results. I asked if they had read the patents to see if they were relevant, but they said it would have taken weeks to read them all, so they didn't.

Steele told me that patents were required to either have a working model or otherwise be demonstrated to operate as claimed. I told him that wasn't true, and that patents were just ideas, didn't have to be demonstrated to work, and that there were patents for walking through walls and time machines. He called his attorney and on speaker phone, I heard the attorney explain that patents were just ideas and were not required to be demonstrated to work. Steele conceded.

Steele told me that there had been $6.5 billion spent by the Federal government on geoengineering. When I questioned him several times how he got that figure, what was the appropriation, what agency was it appropriated to, he could not specify any number or answer my direct questions. He nly told me, "it's in the budget".

Steele also told me that Bill Gates was behind geoengineering, and gave a multi-billion figure he had spent. He also told me that Bill Gates wanted to reduce world population to "a few hundred thousand people". Later, I researched that claim and found that was a misquoting of Gates from a TedX talk.
On the subject of chemtrails vs contrails, Steele and his aide had low understanding about the details of ordinary contrail formation. When I asked the aide directly how contrails formed, he could not form a coherent explanation, and Steele said, it's just science, and never even ventured any explanation. Without an understanding of what normal contrails are, it's no wonder Steele has fallen for the hoax, he knows nothing about the subject. I have found that there is scant information given on any of the sites promoting chemtrails, geoengineering, etc, and in fact the main promoter of chemtrails, geoengineeringwatch, even makes the absurd claim that contrails cannot be made by modern jet engines.

Steele did tell me that he had heard about chemtrails from an elderly friend, and that he did not believe it at first, but over the years he started to look up and see lines in the sky, then started to look into the subject. It is likely that he encountered chemtrails propaganda sites and was convinced by them.
When I related to Steele the any threats which have been made to meteorologists, pilots, airports, including open threats to shoot at airplanes, including the recent threat to blow up a local airfield in Florida, Steele wasn't bothered, said he "gets threats all the time". I did show his aide this report about the 2024 Florida incident by Greg Eugene Poole, who was arrested and jailed for threatening to blow up Page Field in Fort Myers.

So, that talk with Steele revealed to me that he was a true believer of chemtrails, had little accurate information, was willing to repeat things which he hadn't confirmed, and that his belief was strongly held to such an extent he wasn't willing to self falsify them. His eagerness to repeat an accusatory allegation about the plane flying out of Lakeland, which he had not bothered to go and see is also a sign that he is ready to jump to conclusions. The Lakeland airport is only 1.5 hours from his Home District where he has an office, surely he could have had an employee check out the incident.

After leaving the meeting, I searched and found that the Lakeland Airport was preparing for the second largest airshow in the US during the timeframe of his incident. I did inform Steele's office of this fact. That airshow hosts hundreds of thousands of attendees annually for the past 51 years. I find it unlikely that anything suspicious was taking place there, and that Steele was unaware of that fact.

In my conversation with Steele, I let him know that he would ultimately discover that he was seeing contrails from airliners carrying passengers on scheduled flights, and explained that the best evidence for that would be to use high resolution photography to identify the planes as such. I showed his aide this example:
RJA788-2015-01-04-1550-Kampenhout.jpg
 
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Florida Government Falls Under the Chemtrails Delusion

The first to fall, besides the two legislators, was Florida Attorney General James Uthmeier, on March 20, 2025


Source: https://x.com/AGJamesUthmeier/status/1902672682782445960

The second to fall, but not from Florida, was RFK Jr., who previously entertained the idea but now came out more openly, March 23rd, 2025:


Source: https://x.com/RobertKennedyJr/status/1903986030862127502


Then on March 26th, 2025, Nicole Shanahan, kennedy's former running mate, did an extensive interview with chemtrails activist Peter Kirby, who pushes the Marvin Herndon chemtrails-are coal-ash claim.


Source: https://x.com/NicoleShanahan/status/1905001822227718359


Then, on March 31st, 2025 just before the first hearing of HB 477, Uthmeier wrote in support of the bill.


Source: https://x.com/AGJamesUthmeier/status/1906708432075563114
 
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On April 2nd, 2025, Governor of Florida Ron DeSantis came out in support of the Senate bill and denounced the 17 to 0 vote of his legislators removing most provisions of HB 477 leaving only an amendment creating a penalty for unauthorized cloud seeding weather modification.


Source: https://x.com/GovRonDeSantis/status/1907501432862871611


DeSantis's declaration was closely followed in only 18 minutes by Florida Surgeon General and head of the Florida Department of Health in support.


Source: https://x.com/FLSurgeonGen/status/1907505908286112055
 
Though Governor DeSantis may not know the whole story, or indeed may have been misled by others to not understand the implications of supporting the bill, he has stepped right into it with both feet. As Senator Garcia stated, "Lets call a Spade a Spade, chemtrails, ha ha, that's the term the conspiracy theorists, ha ha, are coined with" So, along with his support comes the terms, Chemtrails, conspiracy theory. He owns it now.

But what comes next, did DeSantis even think that far ahead? Likely he didn't, yet now what kinds of consequences will he face? Unless common sense and critical thinking overcome mass delusion, power politics and groupthink pretty quickly, he will be faced with a changed vote in the House.

Here are some possibilities, some certainties and outcomes which might come to pass.

1. DeSantis bails out, claims he has new information, drops support. This comes with several prices, he looks weak and gullible, he has to deal with his close staff who believe and the wrath of the public chemtrails believers who will be furious. The last part may be worse, it will be an external campaign he can't control.
The first part will be lasting because it will be part of any future campaign he will ever plan to run, but since his staff is involved, that part might be handled internally.

2. DeSantis tries the "limited hangout", where he 'modifies' or 'clarifies' his statement, likely through a third party surrogate. He says that he is only interested in the possibility of geoengineering as a potential problem, but doesn't believe it is actually taking place. He places the blame on 'extreme climate change people' for even coming up with the idea, attributing to his political opposition the same sort of bias which got him into the situation of backing a 'chemtrails' bill. He continues on with support and signs the bill.

This might get him off the hook for a while with the general public who are disposed to see him favorably, he is very popular. That path doesn't get immediate blowback, but has the same long term political implications. Don't forget he has Presidential aspirations, this is his last term as Governor.

His opponents will always have a zinger to sling at him, the term "Chemtrails Ron" might actually stick.
The chemtrails people will love him at first, but the contrails won't stop. Their demands will continue, there will be accusations, protests, lawsuits, sadly more threats, or worse. He will be in charge till Jan 1, 2027, 664 more days in office, can he survive?

3. DeSantis doubles down and goes full chemtrail believer. He harnesses the full resources of the state, the Air National Guard, Attorney General investigators, Department of Transportation, Department of Environmental Protection, all of which serve at his disposal. They embark on an 'Operation Skyhunt' seeking out the airplanes which are responsible for making contrails. They monitor the skies, they inspect airplanes and airfields statewide, they photograph, document, take samples of air, fuel, water. They spend millions in a futile search only to track down airliners carrying passengers going places, making contrails.

This makes him look even more the fool unless he can spin it as a heroic action forced on him by the people, for whom he really cares. It will still be used against him by political enemies, maybe forever. For reasonable chemtrails believers and even for skeptics, if he can work them around successfully, it could be a win. But there are many die-hard believers who won't be turned, they will fight on because closely held beliefs of the deluded don't go away easily. Some may decide their backs are indeed against the wall and do what extremists always do when tides turn against them, things I don't even want to consider, very bad things.

So what about you, what do you think will happen? Maybe there are scenarios I haven't covered which fresh eyes might see. I'd like to know.

I'll leave you with some wise quotes from Mark Twain, a shrewd satirical look at what he has said of fools, a fault which I've been found guilty of too, a few times!

Twain.jpg
 
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Jay Reynolds said:
He will be in charge till Jan 1, 2027, around 300 days in office, can he survive?
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2026 doesn't count?

One effect is going to be that even more smart politicians either leave the Republicans, or join one of the anti-Trump Republican groups, which hopefully come to power in 2028. It's another short-term dumbing down of GOP-led government.
 
Mendel said:
2026 doesn't count?

One effect is going to be that even more smart politicians either leave the Republicans, or join one of the anti-Trump Republican groups, which hopefully come to power in 2028. It's another short-term dumbing down of GOP-led government.
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Thank you Mendel you are correct, 664 days to go! But don't discount all Republicans. The House members who took a vote on HN 477 all voted properly to reject chemtrails belief. So there are many who value their reputation. Sadly, 28 Republicans voted to pass the Senate version S-56 today, a straight party line vote with all 9 Democrats voting NO.
 
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Video of the process 4/3/25 of passing S-56 in the Florida Senate, including floor debate and final vote.
The measure passed on a strict party line vote with all Republicans(28) voting YEA, all Democrats(9) voting NO.

Senator Polsky (D) was the only one who had pertinent questions. The bill sponsor, Sen. Ileana Garcia (R) struggled to answer many of them. She was not able to answer how airport management would identify planes at their facilities as having equipment for weather modification. She made the claim that, "We have received reports from pilots who have given us testimony about irregular activities that they had seen", However, during the hearings none of these were ever brought forward by Garcia. That should have been done.
She was not able to answer what criteria Florida Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) would use to determine if reports they are required to take from the general public were credible or not. She claimed that DEP has radars, they can coordinate with NOAA and Meteorologists, but since she was "thinking in Spanish" she had difficulty answering cogently any specific criteria other than to say "there are condensation trails and then there are chemtrails".
Her main focus, it seems to me from her statements, is that she wants to unload the burden of responding to "chemtrails" believers away from representatives and onto DEP, who by this law is forced to become an arbiter of what she termed "fact vs fiction". The problem with this is that all the state agencies will go through a phase of debunking these reports then come back and explain that they are seeing ordinary airliners carrying passengers on scheduled routes making contrails. Maybe this will be effective for some, but others will balk and start new rumors. This incredulity will extend all the way through the Executive branch including the Surgeon General, Attorney General and Governor DeSantis who advocate for this bill. They will regret this. The believers will be no further along than they have ever been, they will be frustrated and assume that even more people are lying to them.

Understand that for over 2 decades this iteration has been repeated with no success. For true believers this is an article of FAITH, not FACT. The believers must falsify their own beliefs to ever change.

Relevant part begins @ 26:25 in the video.
https://www.flsenate.gov/media/VideoPlayer?EventID=1_nty0d3lq-202504030900&Redirect=true
 
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Lt. Governor of Indiana is captured.

His link reads:
"The United States is being subjected to unauthorized and unregulated atmospheric weather modification, including atmospheric aerosol injection (AAI) — a form of geoengineering deceptively promoted as "climate mitigation." These operations are occurring without public knowledge, consent, or congressional approval, and they pose a direct threat to public health, agriculture, the environment, and national security."


Source: https://x.com/MicahBeckwith/status/1913764729673179167
 
Jay Reynolds said:
Lt. Governor of Indiana is captured.

His link reads:
"The United States is being subjected to unauthorized and unregulated atmospheric weather modification, including atmospheric aerosol injection (AAI) — a form of geoengineering deceptively promoted as "climate mitigation." These operations are occurring without public knowledge, consent, or congressional approval, and they pose a direct threat to public health, agriculture, the environment, and national security."
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Oh, this is good. For someone who likes dropping hand grenades into a barrel of fish.

"unregulated" - does he have proof of that? The fact that he's so keen on using specific, almost formal, names for what's taking would imply that it's something that has formally undergone some kind of regulatory analysis. If that is the case, then if the analysis says "yay", then why does he think it's not OK, and if the analysis says "nay", then, erm, it is clearly regulated, and his "unregulated" argument is still demonstrably false.

"unauthorized" - if it's unregulated, then it doesn't require any authorisation, literally by definition. He should choose his tack; adopting both means he's guaranteed to be wrong. However, that's my favourite kind of sub-par arguer, so if he wants to keep up that argumentation style, I can always find a hole.

"without public knowledge" - that's a statement about everybody; if *anyone* has witnessed it and reported it - and from what I've seen elsenet in the last couple of days, people are reporting *natural clouds* as chemtrails - then, up to the error bars of the average human's knowledge, it is known.

"[without] congressional approval" - first, he needs to specify exactly what is taking place, and thence *why* that is both without and needing congressional approval.

"they post a direct threat" - what does he think that they are such that they are a threat, and what's his supporting evidence for that belief?

"and national security" - has "won't anyone think of the children" fallen out of fashion? (Yeah, a cheap one, I'm simply implying this is cookie-cutter trope use based on fear rather than evidence.)
 
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FatPhil said:
Oh, this is good. For someone who likes dropping hand grenades into a barrel of fish.

"unregulated" - does he have proof of that? The fact that he's so keen on using specific, almost formal, names for what's taking would imply that it's something that has formally undergone some kind of regulatory analysis. If that is the case, then if the analysis says "yay", then why does he think it's not OK, and if the analysis says "nay", then, erm, it is clearly regulated, and his "unregulated" argument is still demonstrably false.

"unauthorized" - if it's unregulated, then it doesn't require any authorisation, literally by definition. He should choose his tack; adopting both means he's guaranteed to be wrong. However, that's my favourite kind of sub-par arguer, so if he wants to keep up that argumentation style, I can always find a hole.

"without public knowledge" - that's a statement about everybody; if *anyone* has witnessed it and reported it - and from what I've seen elsenet in the last couple of days, people are reporting *natural clouds* as chemtrails - then, up to the error bars of the average human's knowledge, it is known.

"[without] congressional approval" - first, he needs to specify exactly what is taking place, and thence *why* that is both without and needing congressional approval.

"they post a direct threat" - what does he think that they are such that they are a threat, and what's his supporting evidence for that belief?

"and national security" - has "won't anyone think of the children" fallen out of fashion? (Yeah, a cheap one, I'm simply implying this is cookie-cutter trope use based on fear rather than evidence.)
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I agree with pretty much every word, and certainly with every point. Which indicates that you and I are not in the demographic he's addressing. My sense is that he is not using these terms for the information that they convey, but for the emotional reaction they can elicit. They seem to be used as buzzwords to mean no more than "this stuff sounds bad, let's all be mad about it."
 
To be clear, and maybe I wasn't, Micah Beckwith didn't write those words.

He did put the link into his post though which infers endorsement.
 
What is their ultimate plan for all this? What are these bills supposed to do? As I've said with regard to the UFO people in positions of power, be careful what you wish for.

IF their goal is to eliminate chemtrails, and we all know the vast majority of chemtrails are just contrails from regular commercial flights, then is their goal to stop the commercial airline industry? Seems a hard sell. Dan Wiginton may be ok just driving cross country, but most people not so much.

IF their goal is to stop just the contrails that are geoengineering chemtrails, then they're going to have to demonstrate which is which. They would have to go to every airport in Florida and figure out when and where certain Southwest 737s are just getting regular jet fuel to take people to Disney World and where and when they get the special stuff to spray chemtrails.

Assuming they can never figure out where the nefarious activity is taking place that results in chemtrails, and they won't, then what? Are they back to eliminating all commercial air flights? And military ones? And Trump on Airforce 1 or his own private jets?

When people like Wiginton are in a position to get some portion of their beliefs codified into law, then they have to codify those beliefs. It's no longer just slinging accusation around on social media. The chemtrail folks will have to spell out EXACTLY what chemtrails are and who is making them if they want some sort of law about them. Are all contrails chemtrails? Or only "persistent" contrails are chemtrails? Or only anomalous wavy different looking contrails are chemtrails? Once they define what an actual chemtrail is or isn't, they're kinda lock in. Not that they won't change the meaning, but if it's codified, it's harder to just move the goal posts.

I suppose, in UFO style, they can enact some sort of law about studying or collecting data on chemtrails and when that produces nothing, they can claim cover-up and the need for more laws. It's not going to stop people from flying to Orlando to see the Mouse.
 
NorCal Dave said:
What is their ultimate plan for all this? What are these bills supposed to do? As I've said with regard to the UFO people in positions of power, be careful what you wish for.

IF their goal is to eliminate chemtrails, and we all know the vast majority of chemtrails are just contrails from regular commercial flights, then is their goal to stop the commercial airline industry? Seems a hard sell. Dan Wiginton may be ok just driving cross country, but most people not so much.

IF their goal is to stop just the contrails that are geoengineering chemtrails, then they're going to have to demonstrate which is which. They would have to go to every airport in Florida and figure out when and where certain Southwest 737s are just getting regular jet fuel to take people to Disney World and where and when they get the special stuff to spray chemtrails.

Assuming they can never figure out where the nefarious activity is taking place that results in chemtrails, and they won't, then what? Are they back to eliminating all commercial air flights? And military ones? And Trump on Airforce 1 or his own private jets?

When people like Wiginton are in a position to get some portion of their beliefs codified into law, then they have to codify those beliefs. It's no longer just slinging accusation around on social media. The chemtrail folks will have to spell out EXACTLY what chemtrails are and who is making them if they want some sort of law about them. Are all contrails chemtrails? Or only "persistent" contrails are chemtrails? Or only anomalous wavy different looking contrails are chemtrails? Once they define what an actual chemtrail is or isn't, they're kinda lock in. Not that they won't change the meaning, but if it's codified, it's harder to just move the goal posts.

I suppose, in UFO style, they can enact some sort of law about studying or collecting data on chemtrails and when that produces nothing, they can claim cover-up and the need for more laws. It's not going to stop people from flying to Orlando to see the Mouse.
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The people pushing these bills may soon come to regret their success. Being the "lone voice in the wilderness" can be a way to gain attention and followers. But when you are suddenly "in control" your followers are going to expect you to actually DO SOMETHING. Name the persons or organization responsible for example? Use these laws to make these persons or organizations STOP doing whatever you have proven they are doing?

It is now put up or shut up time. And the chemtrail advocates are going to have a very hard time doing anything more than claim they are still investigating.
 
MapperGuy said:
It is now put up or shut up time. And the chemtrail advocates are going to have a very hard time doing anything more than claim they are still investigating.
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Might be interesting to compare this, as it plays out, with how the UFO disclosure team manages a similar problem. So far, Big UFO has been reasonably successful at claiming that they have all this evidence and proof, trust us, but they can't show it to us because reasons, so here is another distant blob that doesn't do anything.
 
JMartJr said:
Might be interesting to compare this, as it plays out, with how the UFO disclosure team manages a similar problem. So far, Big UFO has been reasonably successful at claiming that they have all this evidence and proof, trust us, but they can't show it to us because reasons, so here is another distant blob that doesn't do anything.
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Absolutely! As for Big UFO, they've gotten most of what they've been clamoring for. Multiple hearings, yet another government UFO program, whistleblowers, and what they perceive as an accommodating administration. What do they have to show for it? More stories and some bad videos.

For the UFO folks, they already had a built in out that had been floating around for quite a while, the defense industry. We've already seen the pivot, even from the likes of Burchette, that the government doesn't really have the UFOs. Disclosure by the government can't happen because the government gave the UFOs to companies like Lockheed-Martin. They have the UFOs. Or the secret government within the government excuse. In the end, there are no UFOs or aliens being revealed by the government, so Big UFO can just say the secret government or Lockheed has them. If there's nothing to show, one can just keep making an excuse why it wasn't shown.

For chemtrails, I think it's a bit more problematic. Contrails exist, we see them all the time. If the claim is that contrails are chemtrails, then unlike UFOs, the government isn't hiding them. They're not even trying. And if a Delta flight headed from Las Vegas to Chicago is spraying chemtrails, it's pretty easy to figure out where the chemicals came from. Anyone can sit at the window of most major airports and watch flights come and go. That includes watching the baggage getting loaded, the food getting loaded, the toilets getting dumped and planes getting fueled. One should easily see the chemicals being loaded as well. All the time. Everywhere.

Now if the chemtrail crowd has to start backpedaling about how many contrails are chemtrails, that becomes a problem. For many of them, ALL contrails are chemtrails. They don't have the same out the UFO people do, they have no UFOs to show, just the demand that they be shown. Chemtrail people have a sky full of what they've been claiming is evidence for years.

I'm figuring we'll get some sort of "this is a serious matter that needs looking into" kinda talk, with a lot of harping on "the dangers of geoengineering" and the "unaccountability" but very little, if any details. When pressed, for example, why it is a Delta flight from Las Vegas to Chicago can be spewing chemtrails when everyone interested can view the entire loading and fueling of the plane, they'll say something like "we need to figure that out, that's why it's serious matter."

They have nothing to put up, but I doubt they'll shut up.
 
NorCal Dave said:
Absolutely! As for Big UFO, they've gotten most of what they've been clamoring for. Multiple hearings, yet another government UFO program, whistleblowers, and what they perceive as an accommodating administration. What do they have to show for it? More stories and some bad videos.
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But thy have not gotten their disclosure, as the chemtrail folks will not.

NorCal Dave said:
<snip>

For chemtrails, I think it's a bit more problematic. Contrails exist, we see them all the time. If the claim is that contrails are chemtrails, then unlike UFOs, the government isn't hiding them. They're not even trying. And if a Delta flight headed from Las Vegas to Chicago is spraying chemtrails, it's pretty easy to figure out where the chemicals came from. Anyone can sit at the window of most major airports and watch flights come and go. That includes watching the baggage getting loaded, the food getting loaded, the toilets getting dumped and planes getting fueled. One should easily see the chemicals being loaded as well. All the time. Everywhere.
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Of course, one can see a distant light in the night sky that looks unusual, especially folks who don't know what a lot of stuff looks like! The governemnt CAN'T hide the UFOs, they are planes, satellites, birds, balloons. etc. Everywhere.


NorCal Dave said:
Now if the chemtrail crowd has to start backpedaling about how many contrails are chemtrails, that becomes a problem. For many of them, ALL contrails are chemtrails. They don't have the same out the UFO people do, they have no UFOs to show, just the demand that they be shown. Chemtrail people have a sky full of what they've been claiming is evidence for years.
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I'd disagree there, the sky is full of stuff out in the LIZ, those are the UFOs.

NorCal Dave said:
I'm figuring we'll get some sort of "this is a serious matter that needs looking into" kinda talk, with a lot of harping on "the dangers of geoengineering" and the "unaccountability" but very little, if any details.
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The pivot to "geoengineering" was a clever stroke of marketing -- switching to a word that is not associated with nuttiness...

NorCal Dave said:
<snip>

They have nothing to put up, but I doubt they'll shut up.
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Yeah, the only way the ones making money off of it would be if it stopped paying the bills, in which case they'd just switch to something new, or rebrand it again.
 
I haven't done an extensive search, but as far as I can tell, there has been only one small scale test of geo-engineering. And the particles were launched from a decommissioned aircraft carrier, the USS Hornet, not planes. The main goal of the experiment was to see if they could even maintain the target size of launched crystals. A planned experiment by Harvard to use a high-altitude balloon was cancelled. Point being, as we all knew already, plane contrails are just contrails. They're not classical chemtrails or chemtrails recently redefined to mean geoengineering particles.

External Quote:
It was the first outdoor test in the United States of technology designed to brighten clouds and bounce some of the sun's rays back into space, a way of temporarily cooling a planet that is now dangerously overheating. The scientists wanted to see whether the machine that took years to create could consistently spray the right size salt aerosols through the open air, outside of a lab.
...
Karen Orenstein, director of the Climate and Energy Justice Program at Friends of the Earth U.S., a nonprofit environmental group, called solar radiation modification "an extraordinarily dangerous distraction." She said the best way to address climate change would be to quickly pivot away from burning fossil fuels.
On that last point, the cloud researchers themselves agree.
"I hope, and I think all my colleagues hope, that we never use these things, that we never have to," said Sarah Doherty, an atmospheric scientist at the University of Washington and the manager of its marine cloud brightening program.
Archived NYT: Warming Is Getting Worse. So They Just Tested a Way to Deflect the Sun

This other article about it explicitly states all regulations were followed (though it doesn't give detail on what those regulations are):

External Quote:

"While it complies with all current regulatory requirements, there is a clear need to reexamine what a strong regulatory framework must look like in a world where [solar radiation modification] experimentation is happening," Talati added.

The Coastal Atmospheric Aerosol Research and Engagement, or CAARE, project is using specially built sprayers to shoot trillions of sea salt particles into the sky in an effort to increase the density — and reflective capacity — of marine clouds. The experiment is taking place, when conditions permit, atop the USS Hornet Sea, Air & Space Museum in Alameda, California, and will run through the end of May, according to a weather modification form the team filed with federal regulators.
Scientific American: Geoengineering Test Quietly Launches Salt Crystals into Atmosphere

Lastly, scientists are also already working on proposing guidelines for performing and studying geoengineering.

External Quote:

Scientists for several years have studied the theoretical effectiveness of injecting sulfur dioxide into the stratosphere to reflect heat from the Sun and offset Earth's warming temperatures. But they also want to ensure that the solar geoengineering approaches being studied are evaluated for their technical feasibility, as well as their cooling potential and possible ecological and societal side effects.

To guide future work, an international team of scientists led by the U.S. National Science Foundation National Center for Atmospheric Research (NSF NCAR) has published a paper with specific recommendations for evaluating proposals to inject sulfur dioxide, which is known as stratospheric aerosol intervention (SAI). The paper also suggests criteria for discontinuing those scenarios that are not feasible because of scientific, technical, or societal issues.
Climate Sciences Laboratory: Scientists propose guidelines for solar geoengineering research

Lastly, there was a plan by Harvard researchers to use a high altitude balloon to conduct a similar test, but the experiment was cancelled.
External Quote:

Harvard researchers have ceased a long-running effort to conduct a small geoengineering experiment in the stratosphere, following repeated delays and public criticism.
...
The plan for the Harvard experiments was to launch a high-altitude balloon, equipped with propellers and sensors, that could release a few kilograms of calcium carbonate, sulfuric acid or other materials high above the planet. It would then turn around and fly through the plume to measure how widely the particles disperse, how much sunlight they reflect and other variables. The aircraft will now be repurposed for stratospheric research unrelated to solar geoengineering, according to the statement.
Harvard has halted its long-planned atmospheric geoengineering experiment
 
JMartJr said:
Might be interesting to compare this, as it plays out, with how the UFO disclosure team manages a similar problem. So far, Big UFO has been reasonably successful at claiming that they have all this evidence and proof, trust us, but they can't show it to us because reasons, so here is another distant blob that doesn't do anything.
Click to expand...
Conspiracy people invented the "deep state" and demonise the US federal government to cover this, even though "they" are now in government the "real control" is still somehow hidden from them.

We are seeing it with UFOs, JFK assassination and Chemtrails as Republican politicians attached themselves to these movements pre-election and now find themselves in power.
 
But yeah chemtrails are different enough from UFOs to present an interesting collision course between believers and the politicians that attached themselves to the movement.

If the government wants to believe an aircraft with contrails is spraying chemtrails, they now have full control of investigating via the FAA and what's left of the EPA.
 
JMartJr said:
But thy have not gotten their disclosure, as the chemtrail folks will not.


Of course, one can see a distant light in the night sky that looks unusual, especially folks who don't know what a lot of stuff looks like! The governemnt CAN'T hide the UFOs, they are planes, satellites, birds, balloons. etc. Everywhere.



I'd disagree there, the sky is full of stuff out in the LIZ, those are the UFOs.


The pivot to "geoengineering" was a clever stroke of marketing -- switching to a word that is not associated with nuttiness...


Yeah, the only way the ones making money off of it would be if it stopped paying the bills, in which case they'd just switch to something new, or rebrand it again.
Click to expand...
I think they were using UFO in the sense of a known alien spacecraft here.
 
JMartJr said:
I'd disagree there, the sky is full of stuff out in the LIZ, those are the UFOs.
Click to expand...

But they are always in the LIZ. They can't wheel out the UFO captured at Roswell that's kept at Area 51. They can't bring out Zorg from Planet X and prove the government has been hiding him. It's always a light in the sky that can't be identified so it's considered alien, because it's just a light in the sky.

With chemtrails, the claim for decades has been that if I look up in the sky and see Delta 2975 from LAX (LA) to PDX (Portland) with a white cloudy trail behind it, that's a chemtrail. That plane is spraying nefarious things like pure elemental aluminum in the sky as I'm watching it. It's not in the LIZ, it's right there for everyone to see. Which, I think, is why chemtrails is a much smaller and more fringe belief.

To some extant that's why they're switching it up a bit with the pivot to geoengineering:

JMartJr said:
The pivot to "geoengineering" was a clever stroke of marketing -- switching to a word that is not associated with nuttiness...
Click to expand...

It sounds more reasonable, is an actual term and allows them to focus on certain flights, not every contrail in the sky. But that right there is a form of backpedaling, it's not all contrails are chemtrails anymore, just some of them. Still, they back themselves in a corner and eventually, I think, we'll hear from state level lawmakers, something about a few military flights that aren't on FlightAware and come from secret military bases and the "seriousness of the situation" that the federal government needs to look into it. They'll try to pass it off.
 
The chemtrail believers have several motivations. Part of their concern is genuine. They think this will help.
But they also are doing their best to do what they have always done, which is to proselytize others because that gives them validation. What better validation than getting leaders perceived to have more power to co-operate in their delusion? So, by doing these bills they perceive that they have gained power. To an extent that has worked. But it hasn't resolved anything other than that.

The State Rep from Tennessee, Monty Fritts, who seems totally captured, is telling other states the same thing, we need more laws to build up power. If only everyone believed as we do, everything will get resolved. But nothing gets resolved because they haven't offered up any solution.

I have recently seen believers use the TN law as justification that their belief is real, stating "Why would they ban something which isn't real?".

[Mod: off-topic derailment removed]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jay Reynolds said:
I have recently seen believers use the TN law as justification that their belief is real, stating "Why would they ban something which isn't real?".
Click to expand...

We see this often. UFO people still toute the Ubatuba UFO crash and recovered materials claim. It has no basis in reality, being some bits of junk sent to a newspaper gossip columnist with a UFO story from an anonymous source in the '50s. No one has ever tracked down the source or even any contemporary stories from the area. However, UFOlogist in the '60s managed to convince the Condon committee to test the material and even though the test just showed it was plain old magnesium, UFOlogist still say things like, well the government tested and looked into the Ubatuba materials, there must be something to it.

Likewise with the latest Nazca mummies, we see Maussan and company almost trolling for legit experts to look at some medical files just so they can be quoted as looking at the files. If any authority is involved at all, be it government or experts, there is something to the claim.
 
Central to Neal Stephenson's sf action thriller, Termination Shock (2021), solar geoengineering:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Termination_Shock_(novel)

Texan oil billionaire invisions, funds and actualizes localized, non-regulated, non-goverment approved, guerrilla solar geoengineering projects, and sets off an international sh!tstorm.

Long book, mostly good, but the second half was rushed in comparision to the first. Recommended, though, to those interested in the topic, for how it imagines how such technology used locally might benefit that region but create negative climate results elsewhere on the planet, and how powerful countries negatively affected would likely react.
 
jarlrmai said:
Governments, simultaneously covering up and confirming aliens since the 50's
Click to expand...
Every cover-up is a confirmation. :-p

But what if they're covering up that there's nothing to it? Has any politician in power ever said outright, "there are no chemtrails"? What do they have to gain by keeping it a secret that chemtrails don't exist?
 
Last edited:
Mendel said:
But what if they're covering up that there's nothing to it? Has any politician in power ever said outright, "there are no chemtrails"? What do they have to gain by keeping it a secret that chemtrails don't exist?
Click to expand...
If politicians decry "chemtrails" they offend the conspiracists. If they go along with it they offend the scientists. Unfortunately they hold office by a popularity contest, and conspiracists outnumber scientists.
 
Ann K said:
If politicians decry "chemtrails" they offend the conspiracists. If they go along with it they offend the scientists. Unfortunately they hold office by a popularity contest, and conspiracists outnumber scientists.
Click to expand...
Yes. That's why I suggest to spread the word that there's a conspiracy to keep the truth from everyone: there are no chemtrails, and the government knows there aren't, but they're covering it up! ;)
 
Last edited:
Mendel said:
Yes. That's why I suggest to spread the word that there's a conspiracy to keep the truth from everyone: there are no chemtrails, and the government knows there aren't, but they're covering it up! ;)
Click to expand...
OF COURSE the government knows there are no chemtrails, but they want to keep the story going, so IN THE FUTURE when they start doing climate modification NOBODY WILL NOTICE, and think it's all just business as usual.

Government people are SO clever......
 
The Florida Chemtrails bill HB477 passed the House yesterday April 30th. The passage was clearly driven by Governor Desantis with all previous opposition ended. Only two Democrats asked questions about it on the floor. The questions mainly related to how it would be enforced through the law enforcement agencies and Department of Environmental Protection.

Significantly, the requirement for all Florida airports to be held responsible for inspecting all planes and issue a report on their findings wasn't removed. I anticipate that this provision will end up in court since these airports will not be inclined to carry out a new undefined and unfunded mandate to inspect airplanes which may arrive and depart within an hour or less. Airports have never been required to inspect planes.

These airports are well organized and have legal staff. Miami and Orlando airports, for example, each have 1000 departures/day. To expect that those airports inspect each of these planes for alleged geoengineering equipment is preposterous. This is an example of how poorly thought through this law actually is.

The bill sponsor, Kevin Steele was very unresponsive to the questions giving very brief, flippant and non detailed answers with a smirk on his face. The relevant hearing begins at 5:10 and runs about 19 minutes.

https://www.flsenate.gov/media/VideoPlayer?EventID=1_zp1pj23y-202504301300&Redirect=true
 
MyMatesBrainwashed said:
Anyone any idea who these people are suggesting is doing this?

Who's their THEY?
Click to expand...
I spent some time speaking to the bill sponsor Kevin Steele. He claimed that Congress had appropriated billions but when I asked him several times the budget item he wouldn't give anything specific. He also claimed that Bill Gates wanted to reduce world population. I explained to him that he could track planes and take photos to identify the planes, and that he would find they were just ordinary airliners carrying passengers on scheduled routes.
Currently, RFK Jr. has made a statement on "Dr. Phil show" that he thinks DARPA is behind it. But he is likely misled by others who have various agendas, such as Dane Wigington, Robert Kirby, Marvin Herndon.


Source: https://x.com/audiegloria/status/1917526474757636573
 
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