If I had an extra 400 bucks I would get it, but my roof and garage door are priorities, not everyone has this $$$ laying around, but, if you are stating you are willing to donate it, I will give you my shipping addressBTW, don't forget the accesories
It is far easier to see further from a higher altitude In fact if you go high enough you can see half the planet! The question remains, from the ground what is the maximum distance one can identify a plane with a contrail?
Over the past 3 years we have identified 11 sectors in the Twin Cities area.
See Trigonometry I just listed, as I have said since the beginning, the average area of viewing is about 40 miles, from her to Monticello, Others say I can see the weather in the Twin Cities from St. Cloud at a distance of 72 miles, well, they are wrong. Trig calculation supports what I have been saying, try it yourself and look at the pic that started this entire thing in the first place and realize, Mick was wrong and I was right, at least according to the math.
You're handwaving again!!
I think Woody is struggling to think in 3D
If we can return to the issue that began this discussion, how far can you see a plane or contrail before it becomes no longer distinguishable?
There's a test for that.
http://psychometrics.akresgr.org/spatialtest/
Let us know how you do Woody.
I agree JB, I just know my math and there is such a knee jerk reaction to distance that I had to take out the trump card and prove through trigonometry that my point is valid and everyone else is guessing, I take out the guessing game."They" are poisoning you. Or "you" are giving yourself a heart attack worrying about something that isn't happening, and wasting a lot of time in the process. I'd think it would be a priority to get on with your life worry free (or at least with THAT big worry out of your life), free up a lot of time, or expose this plot.
I think we were talking about estimating how far away a contrail was in the part of the discussion involving how far you can see.
Who is this "we" you are referring to?
I looked at your sector map, the sectors appear quite close together in jet flight time.Do you have someone in each sector reporting whether or not there is a contrails in that area? The sectors don't even make sense to me, it would seem to be easier to just spray from one end to the other, or do the planes run out of chem juice that quickly?
Ross, the angle on the right is the degree of elevation. Take this degree while looking at an object and look up the "sine" for that number. Then divide it by the known altitude to get your result, This will tell you haw far you must go to find that object directly overhead. If you take your cell phone camera on the widest angle, if it is like mine, it will be about 50 degrees. If you place the horizon on the bottom of your camera (Picture the long way not up and down) when that plane is off the camera coming over your head and disappears from your camera it is now less than 10 miles away. Remember, at 30,000'.I struggle to understand what Woody is writing most of the time.
For instance; the photo above with the graticule... (post #161); What is that all about?
(No one has referred to it, so I suppose we are all having difficulties.)
The numbers in the comment do not relate to the photo.
I hesitate to ask Woody for an explanation in case that would make matters worse. No offense intended, Woody, but Crikey Dick!
Wish we had skies like this, beautiful pic. World record is over 700km though in Antarctica while viewing a mountain on a perfect day.The contrails in this story were proven to be over 160 miles away, with the portion touching the horizon at about 200 miles.
http://contrailscience.com/los-angeles-missile-contrail-explained-in-pictures/
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I think everyone forgot about math, its not about 3D, its about TiggyD.I think Woody is struggling to think in 3D
View attachment 4440May I remind everyone that this discussion began with this picture and Mick saying it was 100 miles away, I said it was far less, maybe 40 or 50 miles. You all believe Mick and not Math, this is the problem. Based upon the above information, with the end of the cloud being visible at 6 degrees with the horizon at -1. Use your trig guys, you will find many problems with Micks drawing and I will explain it by this one. To achieve the distance you take the sine of your angle and divide it into your altitude, I will even give Mick some room for error by calculating this at 6 degrees. The sine for 6 degrees is .10452846326. Distance is 287,003', or 54.36 miles. Curvature of the earth and refraction would also need to be taken into account but this would be very accurate for the purpose of this discussion. It could be 100 miles away but elevation needs to be at 60,000'. If the altitude was 15,000, it would be 1/2 the distance or 27 miles away. Elevation alters everything in the equation and no drawing can have any form of accuracy for all altitudes, this is insane and holds absolutely no merit, facts or foundation. After closer analysis of Micks drawing, this appears to be accurate for 40,000', nothing more or less. There has to be a specified drawing per elevation, no other way. Ask your math teachers. So, who is right?
...May I remind everyone that this discussion began with this picture and Mick saying it was 100 miles away, I said it was far less, maybe 40 or 50 miles. ...
View attachment 4354 There we go, cntl - v command to override is needed, pass it on in the tips section. Now, check out this cloud
Nope, its about this pic, conditions vary around the planet and some people say they can see storms in Bloomington where my dad lives 72 miles away from the ground in St. Cloud, I say, come show me! Our conditions vary greatly with the vast amounts of water, some 17,000 lakes and coutless swamps causes a great deal of water vapor to rise, and this water vapor is warmer than the surrounding atmosphere causing a limitation is our ability to view very far into the horizon. Other went off on tangents making claims even that one can see the moon? Bringing back to the issue, these trails remain for hours and never dissipate on a daily basis here, and this is not normal. There was so many of these today we lost count, and none of the planes we saw were on Flightware, and any commercial flights on Flighware , the few there were on our drive, none were ever visible. It appears many of the flights are being generated out of North Dakota here.I thought there was a debate about you saying it's *impossible* to see a contrail 100 miles away, with an implication that the trail may be further than you think, but not saying it *was* 100 miles away, just that it could be.
I can't comment on whether you've proved what the distance is.
What is that scale to the left?
What is the implication for your trigonometrical mathematic calculations if it is not zero?
Yeah! 13 out of 19.There's a test for that.
http://psychometrics.akresgr.org/spatialtest/
Let us know how you do Woody.
Our conditions vary greatly with the vast amounts of water, some 17,000 lakes and coutless swamps causes a great deal of water vapor to rise, and this water vapor is warmer than the surrounding atmosphere causing a limitation is our ability to view very far into the horizon.
Continental climate is another driving factor here. Both are not driving factors around much of the nation, esp California and Florida, or the entire East and West coast.
I have made claims to viewing distance to the horizon and viewing Aircraft and contrails here in Minnesota ONLY!
I have proven through mathematical configuration the inaccuracy of the trail elevation of Micks drawing
Well, it's Friday. I explained to Woody what he needed to do on Monday. He has figured out how to document the plane passing over, but hasn't shown a Flightaware screen capture for the event. Do you even know how to do this, Woody? Just ask if you are not able. Don't try and take a picture of your computer screen using a camera, not clear enough. Simple instructions:Like I asked you a long time ago, you need to document your case far better before you can make conclusions that what you see is anything out of the ordinary. Try again and pay attention to detail, documenting the whole event including the Flightaware screen shots as the plane passes over, time, lat/long, cardinal direction of the shot(use a compass away from metal) and let us see the whole thing. You can even order the FAA flight data for the event which would prove your case of unidentifiablility if true. Until you do all of this, you are wasting time.
Woody, you say that you actually have been able to identify some planes.Woody. Picture of a trail or plane low in the sky with that app. Tell us how far away you think it is and how you reached that conclusion.
Hey, Woody.A straight up answer is required from you. When did you first see "chemtrails" around Minnesota?
View attachment 4443Eventually as I post these as often as I can someday someone may think, I should go there and check this out.
Eventually as I post these as often as I can someday someone may think, I should go there and check this out.
Actually, yes we did, along with a few others, and like I said, we could not find a single one.Did you try to identify that tiny fresh trail there?
Looks like WJA1623, which at that point was about 20 miles to the west of you.
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We started to notice them in the spring of 2010 and they seemed to increasing more as the year went on, it appears to be the same today as it was in 2011Good luck![]()
Actually, yes we did, along with a few others, and like I said, we could not find a single one.