Latest chart in case anyone is interested:
https://www.ufologyiscorrupt.com/post/mapping-the-ufo-scene-using-association-charts
Thanks Larry! I'll be doing that soon.
Hi Larry, here's the latest chart which includes an entry for UAPTF. Reach out to me if you see anything that you think should be added to it.
This is Ryan ‘FOBS’ Graves. I used to fly F/A-18s in the U.S. Navy. I was the first active duty pilot to come forward to Congress about UAP, and I am thrilled to be here today on r/UFOs with my co-founders Haley Morris (haley-morris) and Brad Crispin (brad_crispin) from Americans for Safe Aerospace, the first military pilot-led nonprofit organization focused on UAP.
Our mission is simple — let’s identify what’s in our skies. If UAP are foreign assets, we must respond appropriately. If UAP continue to defy conventional explanation — we must invest in scientific research.
We officially launched with our Aircrew Leadership Council and Advisory Board a week ago on NBC News, including familiar names like Alex Dietrich, David Fravor, Bryan Bender, Tim Gallaudet, Christopher Mellon, Garry Nolan and Avi Loeb, alongside an incredible group you may not know yet.
Graves calls it "the first military pilot-led nonprofit organization focused on UAP", and they have a "Aircrew Leadership Council and Advisory Board", so you'd assume they're mostly pilots, right? Well...
Generally, for AMAs on zealous subreddits like r/ufos, it's a good idea to sort comments by controversial. Non-softball questions tend to get downvoted, and you'll have a better chance of seeing actual questions when sorted this way. Unfortunately, Graves didn't really answer a single tough question.
Graves calls it "the first military pilot-led nonprofit organization focused on UAP", and they have a "Aircrew Leadership Council and Advisory Board", so you'd assume they're mostly pilots, right? Well...
Taking the names from my above quote:
• Ryan Graves, pilot
• Haley Morris, BA Geography, Religion, Communications Director
• Brad Crispin, B.A. Classical Studies(Latin), Engineering Manager
• Alex Dietrich, pilot
• David Fravor, pilot
• Bryan Bender, journalist
• Tim Gallaudet, admiral/oceanographer
• Christopher Mellon, politician/intelligence
• Garry Nolan, immunologist
• Avi Loeb, theoretical physicist
Are these people qualified to keep aerospace safe? You decide.
I suppose if 'Oumuamua returns, broadcasting messages that it's going to land at the site of Noah's ark,
we'll be glad that Avi Loeb and a geography/ religion graduate are on the case.
On the ASA website, they list 7 pilots for the Aircrew Leadership Council, and 11 non-pilots for the Advisory Board.
Article: Who should get involved with Americans for Safe Aerospace?
Anyone who believes in the mission of Americans for Safe Aerospace and wants to join the fight for transparency about UAP is encouraged to get involved. We welcome everyone, from pilots and aerospace workers, to concerned citizens to scientists and academics and government officials.
How are staff paid?
ASA staff are volunteers. ASA can accept limited donations intended for staff.
Our tax-deductible status with the IRS is pending.
It's a classic example of "the government is covering something up", which makes ASA an organisation committed to lobbying politics for a conspiracy theory.Article: Congress has only ever held two hearings on UAP, the first of which took place last year, and little was revealed to the public. ASA believes that we need more transparency from our government on this important issue.
Article: Douglas Kurth - December 2007
On the LinkedIn website [as at February 2019] Douglas Kurth has an entry. Part of it states that between December 2007 and June 2013, he was employed by Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (BAASS), based in Las Vegas, Nevada, USA. The entry identifies him as a former Marine Corps Senior Officer, Commander and Naval aviator, which precisely matched the Douglas Kurth who reported being involved in the 2004 USS Nimitz encounters. Kurth on the LinkedIn website describes his role at BAASS as including:
"Program lead - novel and emerging space technologies targeting operational deployment in 2040.
Directed and managed a team of 40 scientists, engineers, analysts and researchers.
Business Development - initiated, developed and directed critical collaborative contracts."
Note, that this BAASS role of Kurth's, matches a Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) August 2008 solicitation for bids from companies to carry out work on the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP). In 2019, the DIA confirmed that BAASS won this AAWSAP contract. From September 2008, BAASS then advertised for employees to work on this program. No one I am aware of, has any knowledge of why or how, Kurth came to be working at BAASS from December 2007. In fact BAASS LLC was only registered with the State of Nevada in January 2008.
Article: "I was called for an interview to be a Program manager at BAASS and accepted the job. Nobody in Bigelow companies or anyone associated with BAASS knew anything about the Supersonic Tic Tac event until I told them about it. I interviewed some of the witnesses and wrote a report about the event and submitted it. My report started the entire sequence of subsequent reports and investigation into the events."
"I am fairly sure in my hiring interview, Colm Kelleher, who did the interview, did not know about the event."
…Lieutenant Colonel Douglas Kurth presented himself for interview at Bigelow corporate headquarters. Kurth had an impressive resume. He was quiet spoken but exuded professionalism and efficiency. Within ten minutes of the beginning of the interview, Kelleher knew he had BAASS’s second hire. Towards the end of the interview, Kurth dropped a bombshell. He explained that in his previous career he had been the commanding officer of the Red Devils, a Marine Corps F/A-18C squadron that was a part of the USS Strike Group Nimitz southwest of San Diego in November-December 2004. Kurth went on to describe in detail his participation in what has now become known as the Tic Tac event, arguably, in 2021, the most famous UAP case in the world.
Kelleher, Colm A.. Skinwalkers at the Pentagon: An Insiders' Account of the Secret Government UFO Program. RTMA, LLC. Kindle Edition.Kelleher knew that this event, during which United States Navy Commander David Fravor had now famously seen and engaged with the unidentified object that later became known as the Tic Tac, could be an important case to investigate for the fledgling BAASS organization as a part of the AAWSAP contract. Kurth wrote up his recollection of the Tic Tac case and even produced a comprehensive list of eyewitnesses to contact, which Kelleher submitted to Jim Lacatski at DIA. Lacatski, in turn, brought his friend Jonathan Axelrod on the case, and within months Axelrod and his team had comprehensively interviewed and obtained detailed testimony from more than a dozen pilots, radar operators, and other witnesses from the USS Nimitz, USS Princeton, and other sources.
Kurth even had a job at the Skinwalker Ranch according to Chris Marx, resp. to some reports:
Source: https://nexusnewsfeed.com/article/u...nded-paranormal-research-at-skinwalker-ranch/
Source: https://www.blueblurrylines.com/search/label/Skinwalker Ranch
New poster so forgive me if I'm covering well trodden ground but the Skeptoid articles were the first thing I thought of on reading the topic.
Of course, there should be verbatim quotes and evidence here. But at least in the case of Brandon Fugal, this issue is plausibly presented in Steven Greenstreet's Skinwalker Ranch documentary. Not least because Steven himself comes from Utah and was socialized as a Mormon, he recognizes the patterns well. To what extent Fugal himself makes clear statements there, I no longer have in mind. Yet I will no longer search for this, because the matter is sufficiently clarified for my personal needs (the last two episodes?)
Hi Luis, just asking for a friend: Are you working on the update? He says it would be very much appreciated and he has in mind Grusch of course as well as the Mellon-Nolan-Grusch SOL Foundation among other recent stuff
Long time reader LW, first time I've felt able to post something. Apologies for the delay, life and work has been a little busy.
Something interesting I haven't seen brought up much in relation to the efforts where government interaction takes place, especially the congressional hearings, is the former/possibly current influence campaign Elizondo & co are participating in. Whether or not you could consider it malignant is debatable, but they most definitely at one point were running an influence campaign targeting the government, leveraging the public.
Source: https://twitter.com/jaystratton/status/1684729145626898432/photo/1
Here, the duo for the first time, identify that they had a plan, untold to the public, for Elizondo to resign and speak to the public to create awareness. Stratton used his position and influence within the Department of Defense to leverage Elizondo's feigned personal effort, to internally lobby for the new UAP Office, which he became director of.
Meanwhile, we have Mellon, part of this plan, acting as the person lobbying to Congress and other facets of the government. Mellon has mentioned this before, while, it does have legitimate basis, he reasons that he left out critical information to Congress to actually get the hearings, achieving this through for example, leaving out the background and beliefs of key figures involved.
https://www.military.com/daily-news...ranormal-birthed-pentagons-new-hunt-ufos.html
Making a larger write up on this but it's gonna take a bit. May split it into two, one covering 2017-2019, then another covering the bout the past few months (2023-?). Believe it's two distinct efforts across those periods from the same group, but not 100% sure. There was the little blank period in 20-22 where they all went back into contracting while UAPTF existed & came back out once it got shut down and cleared out, so it's possible their current efforts are distinct from the first.
These two ASA staffers are 2/3 of the "volunteer team with a mission to raise public awareness about UAP to unlock funding for scientific research and political support for disclosure" that created https://www.uap.guide/ , the third team member being Austin Alexander.
The "Introduction" has selected quotes on "UAP exist", "Real objects", "Moving too fast", "Not new", "Global phenomena", "USG has more data", "USG may have materials". The "Learn" section links to longer material, mostly by the aforementioned people. (I think Grusch might be able to source most of his claims from this.)Recommended by
Ryan Graves, Founder, Americans for Safe Aerospace
Bryan Bender, Ex Senior National Correspondent, Politico
Leslie Kean, Investigative journalist and author
Christopher Mellon, Ex Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence
Luis Elizondo, Ex Director AATIP, head of Pentagon UAP program
Ross Coulthart, Investigative journalist and author
Hal Puthoff, Ex Senior Science Advisor AATIP
Tom DeLonge, To The Stars Co-Founder
Possibly, but it is a bit Gish Gallopy to my eye, if we stick to one claim per thread it might turn into a whole forum of its own. Some claims -- "Congressman X said Y," probably should be let alone unless Congressman X never said any such thing, and I hope that will not be the case here. Others are unsupported claims by various witnesses which can't be debunked much beyond pointing out that there is no supporting evidence... again... for the claim. Some bits, such as the references to Roswell or the Navy videos, might be bundled with a link to existing threads on those topics, or to a definitive external debunk where one exists.
as it looks silly at this point to (hopefully) most people.
— John Samford
Director of Intelligence, Major General US Air Force
1952 |
Yes, but that's kinda the point: to show how sound bites have been ripped out of context, claims made without support, etc., all in a nice thread. There shouldn't be any one quote that requires a long debunk; these should get their own threads. It judt feels bad to leave this "mis-guide" undebunked.
I suppose one could make the claim: this report is accurate/factual, or something. It would probably be well to have the basic debunks of the key bits that are readily debunkable in the OP, maybe? Maybe sort the "sub points" inside into "People just expressing opinions" ( to be left largely alone), "witnesses make unsupported claims (to include an explanation of why that is interesting but not useful as evidence) and "recycled old claims already debunked" (Navy vids, Roswell, etc). I think those categories would cover much if not all of what is in there.
We could just start with the "Recommended by" list:
