Isis/Osiris consipracy, sexual and occult symbology in art, crucifixion scenes
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JonJson
Active Member
Mount Rushmore is featured on the reverse side of the South Dakota quarter issued in 2006.
Except for it being much steeper, and having a flat top, and being either much smaller, or hugely bigger blocks.
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Clock
Senior Member.
The original design did look a lot more like Chichen Itza:
Really I think that strength and longevity are perfectly reasonable symbolic meanings that explain why it is there.
At one point, a pyramid (or incomplete pyramid) wasn't even supposed to be there:
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RolandD
Active Member
I deny it. I really don't see pyramidic symbolism permeating our culture like you are portraying.
Occult and religious imagery has always been a part of our culture, and I mean english speaking western culture, not just american. Look at 18th and 19th century literature. Look at the horror movies of the early 20th century. Look at Chaucer and Shakespeare. Pop music culture of the 60's, 70's and 80's. None of this is new, just repackaged.
Do you think all the structures created by the Mound Culture were a result of slavery? Cahokia Mounds alone required more labor than the Great Pyramid.
I think you are seeing this because someone pointed it out and you are ignoring all the other equal influences and symbolism from other cultures.
JonJson
Active Member
I don't know that figure but I can say about 900,000,000 are in common circulation for the dollar coins and about 510,000,000 for the South Dakota quarter.
At one point, a pyramid (or incomplete pyramid) wasn't even supposed to be there:
Do you have any suggestions for why the reverse of the seal has never been cut?
Here is the Grand Union Flag which was the unofficial flag on 4th July 1776 remained the unofficial national flag and ensign of the navy until 1777The 1782 resolution adopting the seal blazons the image on the reverse as "A pyramid unfinished. In the zenith an eye in a triangle, surrounded by a glory, proper." The pyramid is conventionally shown as consisting of 13 layers to refer to the 13 original states. The adopting resolution provides that it is inscribed on its base with the date MDCCLXXVI (1776) in Roman numerals. Where the top of the pyramid should be, the Eye of Providence watches over it. Two mottos appear: Annuit cœptis signifies that Providence has "approved of (our) undertakings."[3] Novus ordo seclorum, freely taken from Virgil,[4] is Latin for "a new order of the ages."[5] The reverse has never been cut (as a seal) but appears, for example, on the back of the one-dollar bill.
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Cairenn
Senior Member.
It seems that you are dismissing the studies of the experts. Why do you HAVE to believe that the pyramids were built by slaves or near slaves?
They were being fed, and working in agriculture was no bed of roses either. I keep wondering if the pyramids doubled as 'work projects' to give folks a job. I would have to do more research on Egyptian history.
And today we build a different type of monument, the SPORTS stadium and then we blow it up, before it is even paid for.
Every age has had it's monuments, pyramids, temples, cathedrals, castles and on and on
They were being fed, and working in agriculture was no bed of roses either. I keep wondering if the pyramids doubled as 'work projects' to give folks a job. I would have to do more research on Egyptian history.
And today we build a different type of monument, the SPORTS stadium and then we blow it up, before it is even paid for.
Every age has had it's monuments, pyramids, temples, cathedrals, castles and on and on
The official story:
http://diplomacy.state.gov/documents/organization/101217.pdf (33MB pdf poster)
I'd imagine its masonic overtones had always been a problem, given the history of the anti-mason movement in the US. See:Congress approved a written design for the Seal’s reverse in 1782, specifically for hanging, or pendant, seals with fronts and backs. In 1815 the U.S. affixed its first pendant seal but only used the Seal’s front. Once U.S. diplomats ceased applying the pendant device in 1871, the desire to strike a reverse waned. In 1885 Congress appropriated funds to cut a reverse, but the Department declined to order it, heeding the recommendation of scholarly advisors who did not favor its appearance.
http://greatseal.com/dollar/hawfdr.html
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Masonic_Party
The anti-mason and anti-masonic parties were active in 1885
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Prbably right C, was just some type of job creation scheme to stop the people being bored.
And that is even without the power of the internet.
This is an alternate explanation from the report of the 68th convocation Rose Cross Order, R Swineberg Klimer, Beverly Hall, Quakertown, PA 7/6/1916
America is not complete and will not be complete and can not be complete until Mexico is part of America as she was long ago.
And when Mexico is once again part of the United States then will the capstone have been set on the pyramid and the reverse side of the United States seal will be cut.
Thus you will see that the soul science primer with its drawings is but the beginning of the article concerning the Seal of the United States. While the article on body, mind, spirt, and soul is the final thereof. May it not be long until the holy pyramid shall be completed and may it be completed without the shedding of blood.
Cairenn
Senior Member.
Hungry bored folks without jobs make trouble for leaders. The amount of farm land in Egypt is very limited. If you have been working in that hot sun are you just going to give your food to someone that did nothing to earn it?
Wars have always been a good way of putting a lot of young men to 'work', but so are building projects.
They did do hard physical work, but that was true of most of the populace in those days.
Wars have always been a good way of putting a lot of young men to 'work', but so are building projects.
They did do hard physical work, but that was true of most of the populace in those days.
War still puts a lot of young men to work. Gets them off benefits, stops them scrounging off the state, gives them a sense of purpose.
I think you are making a good argument C.
Toxic waste cleanup puts people to work too. Maybe we should blow up a few power stations to provide more purpose and jobs for the young men.
Jazzy
Closed Account
Or rather, pioneers to permaculturalize the landscape, planting trees up to the tree-line, hydrological management, the restoration of natural ecological systems, that sort of thing.
You know, adding value to the world we depend upon..
Pete Tar
Senior Member.
They get payed by the state, and cost more than welfare to train and outfit.
Alhazred The Sane
Senior Member.
The landscape of Egypt was a lot different 6,000 to 4,000 years ago. It would have had a lot more arable land, and the Sahara's influence would have been more distant. I'm not disagreeing with your original point, that the pyramids were built by workers rather than slaves. But keep in mind that the north-east of Africa back then didn't look as it does now.
Yet another proof of man made climate change?
It is strange though that it is only since around 2010 that this idea of there not being slaves building the pyramids has come about.
Cecil B DeMille and the Bible obviously have it all wrong. A few skeletons that show how people ate and an academic with airtime is all it takes to totally change history. Guess the Israelite s had a better offer out in the desert.
Yes but if they were on welfare, they would not be out securing all that lovely oil for uncle Sam would they?
It costs a lot of money to dress the servants up in nice uniforms as well but it is worth it in the end. ROI.
Cairenn
Senior Member.
FACTs is what changed. More information. Herodotus got it wrong. And most likely his writings influenced the Bible's account.
Did the Jews Build the Pyramids?
Question: On Passover when we read that the Egyptians forced us to do back-breaking work isn’t there the implication that the work was building the Egyptian pyramids? Not simply Pithom and Ramses? It certainly was implied when we studied this in school. Is it written anywhere specifically that we built them? At least some of them? Naturally I presume that other such structures were built, and that we didn’t build them all. One might even suppose that some remaining today were built much later, and that those of which WE speak are now long gone. After all there are also pyramids in Mexico. However, don’t we still have a claim on at least some of those spoken of, or at least referred to, or implied in the Torah?
Answer: First of all, I’m not sure that any claim we might have to the pyramids should be a source of pride: for one thing, it would have been as slave laborers and for another, the pyramids themselves seem to have been closely identified with idolatrous rites – something our exodus was meant to eliminate.
But in any case, to my knowledge, there doesn’t seem to be any evidence connecting our slave activities to the pyramids. The Torah describes the building projects as “Arei Miskanos l’Paroh” (Exodus 1: 11) – which would either translate as storage cities or treasury cities for the king – a description that doesn’t easily lend itself to the design and purpose of the pyramids.
So it would seem that we’ll just have to resign ourselves to the existence of at least one major architectural project that had no Jewish input!
With my best regards,
Rabbi Boruch Clinton
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4191I've heard some Christians say the Bible is a literal historical document, thus Jewish slaves built the pyramids (the Bible actually doesn't mention pyramids at all, this came from Herodotus. See below. - BD);....
If Jews were not in Egypt at the time of the pyramids, what about Israelites or Hebrews? Israel itself did not exist until approximately 1100 BCE when various Semitic tribes joined in Canaan to form a single independent kingdom, at least 600 years after the completion of the last of Egypt's large pyramids. Thus it is not possible for any Israelites to have been in Egypt at the time, either slave or free; as there was not yet any such thing as an Israelite. It was about this same time in history that the earliest evidence of the Hebrew language appeared: The Gezer Calendar, inscribed in limestone, and discovered in 1908. And so the history of Israel is very closely tied to that of Hebrews, and for the past 3,000 years, they've been essentially one culture.
But if neither Jews nor Israelites nor Hebrews were in Egypt until so many centuries after the pyramids were built, how could such a gross historical error become so deeply ingrained in popular knowledge? The story of Jewish slaves building the pyramids originated with Herodotus of Greece in about 450 BCE. He's often called the "Father of History" as he was among the first historians to take the business seriously and thoroughly document his work. Herodotus reported in his Book II of The Histories that the pyramids were built in 30 years by 100,000 Jewish slaves [In point of fact, Herodotus only says 100,000 workers. He does not mention either Jews or slaves. So even this popular belief seems to be in error, and the origin of the idea of Jews building the pyramids remains a mystery - BD]. Unfortunately, in his time, the line between historical fact and historical fiction was a blurry one. The value of the study of history was not so much to preserve history, as it was to furnish material for great tales; and a result, Herodotus was also called the "Father of Lies" and other Greek historians of the period also grouped under the term "liars". Many of Herodotus' writings are considered to be fanciful by modern scholars. Coincidentally, the text of the Book of Exodus was finalized at just about exactly the same time as Herodotus wrote The Histories. Obviously, the same information about what had been going on in Egypt 2,000 years before was available to both authors.
SR1419
Senior Member.
2010??
Not quite- even Herodotus in 450 BC (approx) suggested that the workers on the Pyramids were paid:
http://blog.world-mysteries.com/science/the-pyramid-tales-by-herodotus/
Exactly who actually labored on the Pyramids and why has been an open discussion for a longtime - and its only logical that continued study and exacvation would yield more info and new interpretation-There are writings on the pyramid in Egyptian characters indicating how much was spent on radishes and onions and garlic for the workmen; and I am sure that, when he read me the writing, the interpreter said that sixteen hundred talents of silver had been paid. Now if that is so, how much must have been spent on the iron with which they worked, and the workmen’s food and clothing
This comment is from 1997:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/who-built-the-pyramids.html
Who do you think can paint a more accurate picture- Cecil B DeMille/Hollywood...or actual scientists??There's some evidence to suggest that people were rotated in and out of the raw labor force. So you could be a young man in a village, say, in Middle Egypt, and you had never seen more than a few hundred people in your village, maybe at market day or something. And the King's men come, and it may not have been entirely coercion, but it seems that everybody owed a labor tax. We don't know if it was entirely coercive, or if, in fact, part of it was a natural community donation as in the Incan Empire, for example, to building projects where they had a great party and so on. But, anyway, they started keeping track of people and their time on the royal labor project.....
....is it possible that we could find evidence that would bring Egypt into line with what we know of other traditional ancient societies? Like when the Inca build a bridge, and every household winds its twine together, and the twine of all the households in the village are wound into the villages' contribution to the rope. And the rope on the great day of bridge-building is wound into a great cable, and all the villages' cables are wound into this virtual bridge. Or in Mesopotamia we know that they built great mud-brick city walls by the clans turning out and giving their contribution, a kind of organic, natural community involvement in the building project. I wonder if that wasn't the case with the Great Pyramid of Khufu. You know, it's almost like an Amish barnraising—but, of course, the Great Pyramid of Khufu is one hell of a barn.
Alhazred The Sane
Senior Member.
I'd wager DeMille had little actual knowledge of Egypt, and the bible makes absolutely no mention of slaves building the pyramids. As it happens, the whole Exodus bit has been challenged by Israeli historians for quite some time. There's no proof that the Jews were ever in Egypt at all.
It's also not unusual for recent discoveries to change our perception of the past, or our understanding of the world. There's a word for it, in fact: "science".
Is there any proof that Moses existed?
You mean evidence? Not really, why?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses
The existence of Moses as well as the veracity of the Exodus story is disputed amongst archaeologists and Egyptologists, with experts in the field of biblical criticism citing logical inconsistencies, new archaeological evidence, historical evidence, and related origin myths in Canaanite culture.[3][4][5] Other historians maintain that the biographical details, and Egyptian background, attributed to Moses imply the existence of a historical political and religious leader who was involved in the consolidation of the Hebrew tribes in Canaantowards the end of the Bronze Age.
Yes I meant evidence, thanks. I am feeling that a lot of history is being re written lately. All this 'slaves didn't build the pyramids' is only a couple of years old. Up until then there was 'evidence' to the contrary and 'evidence' that this Bible event happened and that Bible event happened.
i.e http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...d--How-science-backs-Bibles-best-stories.html
I am wondering where the impetus for these apparent changes come from. It is not so much that they even co exist, it is as if one virtually obliterates the other, like a science/history fashion. Obviously there are exceptions but I am speaking 'in general terms'.researchers prove the Red Sea really could have parted... How science backs the Bible's best stories
And if so, who else?
That's not new at all. People have been talking about what the underlying events for myths were for many years. Particularly the flood myths. But also all the other stuff in the bible.
JonJson
Active Member
Well according to my source, Steven Spielberg, the proof that Moses existed is contained in the Ark of the Covenant which has been placed in a wooden crate somewhere in a government warehouse. Just like the Government, hiding all the evidence from us.
That's my point, it was all about this or that underpinning Bible stories, now it seems to have gone the other way... like trending.
SR1419
Senior Member.
why do you keep repeating this when its not true?
I showed you that they were calling into question the "slave" theory as far back as 1997...
This in-depth article is from a decade ago:
http://harvardmagazine.com/2003/07/who-built-the-pyramids-html?page=all
It was assumed that they were built by slaves...and that assumption was propagated into public myth through your buddy CBD and others...Redding’s faunal evidence dealt a serious blow to the Hollywood version of pyramid building, with Charlton Heston as Moses intoning, “Pharaoh, let my people go!” There were slaves in Egypt, says Lehner, but the discovery that pyramid workers were fed like royalty buttresses other evidence that they were not slaves at all, at least in the modern sense of the word
Isn't it logical that as new information becomes available that "history" will be updated?
What other way?
Sorry, I didn't see your post.
CBD was obviously taking from the Bible, which for centuries has been 'the absolute truth', and even recently carries much credibility with anyone of 'faith'.
It is therefore unsurprising that 'where science backs it up', it will be touted.
The Bible is historically very accurate on many things.
There appears recently to be a trend, (even 1990's is recent), to undermine everything about the Bible, even on very flimsy evidence. It is the 'will to do that' that I am questioning.
I do not know if slave labour was widely used in pyramid construction. It seems likely to me. The evidence against seems very tenuous, largely based on a 'few skeletons'.
Naturally there would be a hierarchy, skilled masons and planners who would have controlled things and would have been highly regarded etc but in order to build pyramids you would need a cast far larger than CBD could muster and I think it likely they were slaves.
SR1419
Senior Member.
Based on what?
Your extensive knowledge of ancient civilization's society and labor divisions?
or perhaps just your ancient Egyptian archaeology field work?
Based on megalomaniac dictators love of using slaves, throughout history and the lack of any credible evidence to the contrary.
JRBids
Senior Member.
What has been proved to have actually happened?
JRBids
Senior Member.
Where Science backs it up always trumps "it says it in the Bible."
Such as?
I'm almost 60 and I've always been interested in the Bible, back in my 20s I read books that explained away many miracles. Mosts turning the sea red, the plague of locusts, for instance.
Cairenn
Senior Member.
I have to wonder about the "megalomaniac dictators love of using slaves' comment. There is not a lot of evidence of that until the 20th century.
The EVIDENCE is showing that the pyramid builders were well fed, were given 'a right' that others didn't have. Think about folks wanting to be buried in Arlington Nat'l Cem.
The Egyptians of that time period did not have our modern day ideals of life. In fact, to them, your afterlife was more important than the life you were living. I have read a lot of their religious beliefs and their social structure, ever since I was a child. It doesn't seem like you have---you mixed up Isis, (an Egyptian goddess), Ishtar (a Babylonian goddess) and Artemis (a Greek goddess). You didn't seem to recognize a normal hieroglyph either (the owl).
The EVIDENCE is showing that the pyramid builders were well fed, were given 'a right' that others didn't have. Think about folks wanting to be buried in Arlington Nat'l Cem.
The Egyptians of that time period did not have our modern day ideals of life. In fact, to them, your afterlife was more important than the life you were living. I have read a lot of their religious beliefs and their social structure, ever since I was a child. It doesn't seem like you have---you mixed up Isis, (an Egyptian goddess), Ishtar (a Babylonian goddess) and Artemis (a Greek goddess). You didn't seem to recognize a normal hieroglyph either (the owl).
First I've heard of this trend. People have been scientifically criticizing the Bible ever since it was not illegal to do so, (and even when it was)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_history#Challenges_to_historicity
There had always been a critical tradition dating back to at least St Augustine of Hippo (354–430), with interpretations "plainly at variance with what are commonly perceived in evangelicalism as traditional views of Genesis."[17] The Jewish tradition has also maintained a critical thread in its approach to biblical primeval history.
[...]Galileo [1564-1642] is the name most closely associated with the first scientific assault on biblical authority, but the heliocentric universe was sufficiently peripheral to biblical ontology to be eventually accommodated.
[...]
It was in fact the birth of geology, marked by the publication ofJames Hutton's Theory of the Earth in 1788, which set in train the intellectual revolution that would dethrone Genesis as the ultimate authority on primeval earth and prehistory.
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