High barium levels in blood? ( Mohave, AZ?)

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
I'm not with the US Coast Guard. The CG issues licenses to merchant mariners. I hold a USCG issued Chief Engineer's license and several others.
I had a long conversation with Al week before last. In the conversation I most certainly did address both the environmental sources and the likely way that barium enters the body, in his case he was told by his County Epidemiologist that grains were the most likely source, and he admitted that he does eat foods containing grains.
Subsequently, I sent him the following informative links to back up what we had spoken about:
Aluminum tests:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/135-Chemical-Composition-of-rain-and-snow
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/137-Shasta-Snow-and-Water-Aluminum-Tests.
===========================================================
Barium in blood and soil:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/128-High-barium-levels-in-blood-(-Mohave-AZ-)
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/247-What-are-the-normal-levels-of-Barium-in-Soil-and-Water
=====================================================
Refusal of Michael J. Murphy and others to show all their tests:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/26...hemtrails-Information-Freedom-Aagreement-quot
======================================================
The claims of Francis Mangels and Dr. Lenny Thyme Scientists in What In The World Are They Spraying:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/154-The-Claims-of-Francis-Mangels-a-Factual-Examination
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/24...quot-What-In-The-World-Are-They-Spraying-quot
=========================================================
Advocating Violence against "Chemtrail" aircraft:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/251-Advocating-violence-against-quot-Chemtrail-quot-planes
========================================================
Michael J. Murphy and others recommend eating Aluminum oxide in Zeolite:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/24...-Aluminum-Oxide-as-a-Natural-Cellular-Defense
=====================================================
My first article on chemtrails in 1999:
http://goodsky.homestead.com/files/linesinsky.html
========================================================
Richard Finke, Founder of Chemtrails as a hoax in 1997, dead at 58:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/263-Founder-of-the-Chemtrails-Hoax-Richard-Finke-dead-at-58
======================================================

After a few days, Al wrote back to me and said:
Al Diccco said:
I have nothing more to discuss with you. Lose my number and email.
If you attack me or make fun of me on the Internet again, I will sue you for libel.
Her is Geoengineering announced, so save you BS for someone else Jay.
http://www.sanluisobispo.com/classified-ads/ad/1669597

That last message was CC'd to Michael J. Murphy and another dubious email address called "brightsoftstrong" that is for mature audiences only.

So it seems that Al showed my set of links to Michael J. Murphy and *someone else* who talked him back into the Dark Side.
Al, why would you tell people on Facebook such lies, when I certainly did address all of the things you say I didn't?
 
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MikeC

Closed Account
Any idea what that last link refers to? it came up blank for me.

A search of the paper for "Geoengineernig" yielded several pages of results - none on the 1st page seemed to have anything to do with geo-engineering & I didn't look at the rest.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Any idea what that last link refers to? it came up blank for me.

A search of the paper for "Geoengineernig" yielded several pages of results - none on the 1st page seemed to have anything to do with geo-engineering & I didn't look at the rest.
It wasn't about geoengineering. It was a public notice that the State of California was going to do cloud seeding.

Al told me he wasn't technically oriented, he really had no idea what caused contrails to form or persist. His handlers Michael J. Murphy and the Mt. Shasta Posse
never really taught him about ordinary contrails, and the other chemtrail believer sites didn't do any better. Maybe they just didn't want him to start asking too many questions.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
At this message board, I made this response to two videos that were posted:
On the one hand, ABCee is showing us an alleged "How To Collect Rainwater" video that shows relatively clean plastic pans. There are some problems even with this set up. Depending on how long the pans were exposed to the atmosphere before or after rainfall, regular dust WILL be included in the sample, yet will be labeled as "rainwater".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20VbbKSHcVI

On the other hand, ABCee shows us how "Chemtrail" believers ACTUALLY do their testing, in the video "Mohave County Chemtrails We Are Pissed Off".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lrwGxrdm5M
What is seen in THAT video is someone dipping out a sample of fecal soup from a nasty dirty galvanized watering bucket in a bare dirt chicken yard littered with straw. It is easily seen that there is straw floating in the bucket, the water is discolored from chickens scratching the ground, flapping their wings raisning dust and cavorting the way poultry will do and also from dipping their beaks into the water. I have had chickens before. They will hop up onto the rim of the bucket to more easily get water and any dirt or feces on their feet will fall into the water. Occasionally, they will fall into the water.

In the video, Gianluca Zanna is heard to say "It rained a little bit last night." The bucket contains about six inches of water, obviously they did not get six inches of rain. Where did the other water come from, and how long had the bucket sat uncleaned inthe chicken yard?

This is an excellent example of why NO ONE SHOULD EVER simply accept ANY of these supposed "rainwater" samples as genuine. To my knowledge, this is the first actual instance where any of these "rainwater" samples has been videotaped as the sample was being taken, and I thank Gianluca Zanna for showing us how these samples are ACTUALLY being taken.

He has essentially debunked ALL of these undocumented samples by showing us that JUST ONE of them was taken in a manner totaly inconsistent with science or indeed any common sense whatsoever.
.
 

Gunguy45

Senior Member.
Just wanted to let you folks know...
I live here in Kingman AZ (Mohave Valley) and have been seeing these newspaper stories and posts for a while now. TY, TY, TY for helping to contribute to the voices of reason.

There are some here that just will not look at facts from a scientific view and wouldn't understand them if they did. You should see some of the discussions about other subjects on the local newspaper site...unbelievable!

I support your efforts...but in most cases (at least here) it's a lost cause.

Thank you again for providing a source for facts for those of us with open minds and who have the time and inclination to "Fight the Stupid" (not that most are...they've just been lured in).

Vic
 

firepilot

Senior Member.
So why are they not getting ahold of Joe Marman, who is an attorney and part of the sham "Environmental Voices" group, which is just a chemmie club trying to look normal

He was looking for evidence at one time to file a lawsuit.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Marman may not be licensed in Arizona, I did see Roxy Lopez asked Al DiCicco on FB whether or not he had contacted Marman, but saw no response. None of these lawsuits or even these county ordinances are likely to go anywhere. In almost every case they finally run into a roadblock of someone who sees through the hoax, be it a judge, a pilot, a scientist, or even a good attorney familiar with picking up on people's peculiarities. I have been told by someone who was deeply involved with chemtrail believers and knew many on a personal level, about 1/2 of them, if you watch and listen, you can see there is something wrong, something different, something 'off' about so many of them. They can't hide it all, and the bad egg that shows signs of instability ends up like the Mohave County Health Board did in Al Dicicco's video, just having to grin and bear it, then eventually ignoring them.

I'm sure you have heard many times from chemtrail believers, "Public officials won't DO anything, they just ignore me!", or like Francis Mangels eventually got from the US Forest Service, they cursed him and threw him out of the office. Well, that's just one side of the story. I've spoken to some of these public officials who told me how difficult some of these people can be, how insistent, with the pleading, sobbing, threatening lawsuits, the phone calls and letters. The public servants try their best, they contact others, they research, they send them information but of course can never satisfy them. Rosalind Peterson's Congressman paid a contractor good money to go in the archives and print out all 400+ flights over her home, and all she did was go on Alex Jones' show and say there aren't many flights overhead!

WE paid for that, all of us, plus the phone calls, the printout, the typists, all of it, and she not only ignored it she absolutey lied about it.

That's the other side of the story you never hear from chemtrail believers.
 

firepilot

Senior Member.
Oh yes, and in Als thread on there, is the guy who did the video insisting that the Air Force Academy freshman chemistry class is for chemtrails, and he
insists he found evidence of AgI being put into jet fuel

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=175117

Talk about having zero idea what he is talking about. I do like how they do not realize that is not actually a real photo of the poison spray buttons
 

El Duderino

New Member
Here's a lab test from NMS Labs - the same labs they use - that more clearly says that the normal range of barium in human blood is 2 - 400 mcg/L



Source:

http://www.dcf.state.fl.us/initiatives/GMWorkgroup/docs/GM_ME_Report.pdf

And another:

http://www.denied-justice.com/files/autopsy_report.pdf


Mr. Al Dicicco, who is one of the Mojave people Zanna has gotten all frightened, has asked to debate this issue.
I invited him here and await the debate.
Jay

Here is Al's story:
http://thelocalpointofview.com/news7.html

And here's another from the Broward County medical examiner from the Anna Nicole Smith case.

http://www.broward.org/Medical/Documents/investigative_report.pdf
Lists normal barium range as 80-400 mcg/L

I recently joined a private Facebook group which he admins. I replied to a pic thread he made about rain water tests, the "conversation" wasn't very productive. He eventually mentioned barium and other metals showing up in his blood tests, so I posted the first pic Mick has here, where NMS states normal concentrations of barium in blood are 2-400 mcg/L. Then I posted the video of him I'll link below, at 2:40 where he shows his test is 150 mcg/L for barium, same source (NMS labs). I was blocked soon after.

 

TEEJ

Senior Member.
Video made by Gianluca Zanna of a public meeting with Rep Paul Gosar in Kingman, AZ, Apr 2015.
Paul Gosar gives them some excellent advice. Metabunk and Mick are mentioned in the comments by Al Diccco in regards to this thread.

Al Diccco tells Paul Gosar "We don’t need science!”

 

Leifer

Senior Member.
Another from Al
He seems to think the "Reporting Limit" means something else....maybe "normal level" ?
Reporting Limit (RL) means.....
analyte = the substance being identified and measured.


.
 

Leifer

Senior Member.
...And from GlobalSkyWatch, where we find someone's exact misunderstanding of "reporting limits", in their own words :
reporting_limits.jpg


reporting_limits_graph.jpg
http://globalskywatch.com/chemtrails/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9208#.VV2HIkYl_EW


Also, an identical post at ArizonaSkyWatch.... http://www.arizonaskywatch.com/charts/our charts/phx_blood_tests_2011.htm

reporting_limits5.jpg

Could it be that the term "elevated" in the above test result, means that the "Reporting Limit" (of 11)....is what's elevated......not the "Results" ? I'm not sure.
If you go to the NMS Labs site, you can generate a blank sample "Barium Blood Test" (as a .pdf) and it shows a RL of 5.0 mcg/L.
Or is it "elevated" because it's above the "median of 21" ?
 
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Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
...And from GlobalSkyWatch, where we find someone's exact misunderstanding of "reporting limits", in their own words :


View attachment 13017

View attachment 13018
http://globalskywatch.com/chemtrails/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9208#.VV2HIkYl_EW
So the aluminium figures for both are barely above the effective detection limit.

As always you have to wonder whether these people are honestly mistaken or actively lying. The fact that, as @Leifer points out, they have deliberately hidden the disclaimer about possible causes of elevated readings, strongly suggests the latter.


upload_2015-5-21_10-46-0.png


I'm not so sure about the theory that ELEVATED refers to the RL, though.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Jay investigated this four years ago:
On June 8, 2011, I contacted NMS labs at 1-800-522-6671, and spoke to their Client Support Representative Mr. Marlow. Here were my questions and his responses:

Q: What does a "reporting limit" mean?
A: This is the minimum detectable amount for which we will make a report.

Q: What does elevated mean?
A: Any amount above the median(average) amount will be reported as elevated.

Q: What does "N-1155" mean?
A.: That is the number of people that NMS tested when we were researching average blood barium levels.

Q: I am looking at a report of barium in blood, what does the comment "Median, 21 mcg/L" mean?
A: 21 mcg/L lies in the center of the range of what 1155 people had in ther blood.

Q: What does "Range, 0-489 mcg/L" mean?
A: That is the spread of blood barium levels that NMS labs found when they tested 1155 average people. The lowest was 0, the highest was 489.

Q: What does "10-90% of concentrations range from 1.8 to 165 mcg/L" mean?
A: Most people's blood barium levels fall into the range of 1.8 to 165 mcg/L.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
Jay investigated this four years ago:

This is important, as it means that BY DEFINITION 50% of the population will be reported as having "elevated levels" of barium (or anything else) on these tests. Even if all of the levels are harmlessly low, they would always report the top 50% of the results as "elevated", simply because of their definition above.

(The median is the average calculated by putting all the values in ascending order and picking the middle one (or the mean of the middle two, for even numbers of values).)
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Sadly there is yet another rainwater sample being misinterpreted. This time in Fresno, Ca. Veteran Mario Ramirez believes that he has received results that show Aluminum 170% above normal, Barium 220% above normal and Strontium 320% above normal.

Yes, their percentages are relative
to the RL (Reporting Limit)

So basically their tests show barely measurable amount of the tested substances.
 

Cathy S

New Member
Barite is beautiful!

Mr. Al Dicicco has read this forum and notified me by email he has declined to debate.

I forgot about this before, but at home I have a shelf which holds a collection of found objects, one of them is an Oklahoma "Rock Rose" I picked up during a trip about a dozen years ago near Oklahoma City, there were many of these in a ditch beside the road.

It is the official State Rock of Oklahoma.
Barium sulfate and sandstone.
Naturally occurring.
Beautiful.
What a beautiful piece! Is this your own picture?
 

shadowhippie

New Member
I used to live in Golden Valley- something people may not be considering when looking at blood levels. There are a lot, and I mean a LOT of Meth Labs in Mohave county. The land is cheap and spread out, and there are Meth Labs set up in trailers, RVs, or just open out in the desert. There are fires from labs blowing up Often. Surely all this has the possibility of affecting the air, water, ground, which would then affect people?
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
I used to live in Golden Valley- something people may not be considering when looking at blood levels. There are a lot, and I mean a LOT of Meth Labs in Mohave county. The land is cheap and spread out, and there are Meth Labs set up in trailers, RVs, or just open out in the desert. There are fires from labs blowing up Often. Surely all this has the possibility of affecting the air, water, ground, which would then affect people?

Despite what the title card logo of Breaking Bad would suggest, I'm pretty sure barium isn't used in meth manufacture.
 

tinkertailor

Senior Member.
I'd be interested to find this out too, as my area has a lot of drug manufacturing labs, primarily butane honey oil, a concentrated form of marijuana, and meth is definitely manufactured here too. Every week or so a house blows up from a butane explosion and butane canisters float around a lot of our dammed lakes.
In short, meth does definitely cause an environmental risk. Per the NCBI:
The question becomes, then, what gases and toxic waste exactly are left behind.
This article has an extensive amount of information available regarding the manufacture, history, results and risks with meth. It is fairly old, though, and there are a lot of methods that people use to manufacture it. In "Appendix 1: Chemicals Found in Illicit Methamphetamine Labs" (page 15), there is this:
Now that I know way more about meth than I ever intended to, I'm going to hand this off to one of our experts on the "chemtrail" theory and see what they think.
Is barium sulfate the barium that "they" are "spraying", according to the chemtrail-believing community?
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
Is barium sulfate the barium that "they" are "spraying", according to the chemtrail-believing community?
Barium sulfate is an insoluble salt that is pretty inert biologically. It is the substance that is used in a barium swallow for X-ray procedures, and passes straight through the body without being absorbed.

It can cause health problems if the fine dust is inhaled, but only by acting as a "mechanical irritant" rather than through any specific chemical action.

Patrick Roddie mentions barium sulfate when talking about solar haloes (due to his incorrect ideas that substances with a higher index of refraction than ice will produce smaller haloes, and his confusion of 22-degree haloes with 42-degree rainbows). But when talking about the harmful effects of barium salts, he switches to quoting data about barium chloride, a soluble and toxic salt, as if they were interchangeable.


But yes, I was too hasty in ruling out barium use in meth manufacture. It turns out that palladium metal on a barium sulfate base is used as a catalyst: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barium_sulfate#Catalyst_support

Specifically as relates to meth manufacture, one route does use this catalyst:

http://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/jres/093/jresv93n3p469_A1b.pdf


I imagine the amount of barium sulfate used would be pretty small, though. Catalysts are generally used in fairly small quantities, and are not consumed during the reaction (although they do tend to lose their effectiveness gradually over time). Certainly far less than the volume of reactants being used.
 
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Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
There is far more barium sulfate in the environment, especially out west, than I imagine any meth labs could release.
Barite mineral is barium sulfate and is fairly common out there.
 

Hevach

Senior Member.
You also have to consider a meth lab fire won't actually burn that many toxic chemicals - large scale operations do happen, but it's generally the amateur jobs that explode. Most of the smoke coming out of one is the structure and contents of the building burning, not the chemicals.

I mean, don't stand downwind of one that's on fire, there could be stuff in the smoke that can kill you in tiny quantities, but being in the same region as them isn't going to add up to any more than being in the same region as an arson epidemic.
 

Jesse Brower

New Member
Can you check this out for me? @Mick West , I want to know if you think the concerned citizens of Golden Valley actually have elevated levels of Strontium 90 in their blood? Or if they are misreading the test results like they did with the Barium? Could it be that they are being exposed to high levels of Strontium 90 because of the left over Strontium 90 left behind form the nearby nuclear tests many year ago? I live in Kingman and I am concerned that we might be getting too much exposure to Strontium 90 by living here. What do you think? Thank you!

http://globalskywatch.com/chemtrails/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7965#.XHgW4sBKiM9 "Residents not happy with Mohave County Board of Health





Can you check this out for me? @Mick West , I want to know if you think the concerned citizens of Golden Valley actually have elevated levels of Strontium 90 in their blood? Or if they are misreading the test results like they did with the Barium? Could it be that they are being exposed to high levels of Strontium 90 because of the left over Strontium 90 left behind form the nearby nuclear tests many year ago? I live in Kingman and I am concerned that we might be getting too much exposure to Strontium 90 by living here. What do you think? Thank you!
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
exposed to high levels of Strontium 90 because of the left over Strontium 90 left behind form the nearby nuclear tests many tears again? I live in Kingman and I am concerned that we might be getting too much exposure to Strontium 90 by living here. What do you think? Thank you

just for the record, and this is no indication that Mick can't read test reports, if you have health concerns about anything you should ask your physician. just saying.

as far as nuclear tests, this thesis paper written in 1955 says the strontium from the atomic tests has a half life of 25 years. (but again, you should ask your doctor)
https://repository.arizona.edu/bits...d=F6EE637093D9BC3C19182A52DBB8A406?sequence=1

the wiki page says half life of 29 years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strontium-90

and i imagine there are reams and reams of material available on the atomic testing, and environmental tests Arizona has done.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Am I missing the test reports somewhere?
i was hoping one of you guys would know :) this thread is so old, and without current Posting Guidelines it's hard to tell if the actual tests were linked somewhere.

you could ask @Jesse Brower to show you what tests he is referring to. the video in post #54 mentions strontium at 20 secs in ... i'm "assuming" it is from the Mohave area if it was linked here. ??
 

Jesse Brower

New Member
ok when i googled the guy from youtube,Al DiCicco. i found this clear version in images with a MB link.

is this what you are referring to @Jesse Brower ?
View attachment 36336



the thread that image is from is here https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-shade-the-motion-picture-chemtrails-and-geoengineering.t2397/

Some folks in the Golden Valley Arizona area back in 2011 claimed to have tested positive for high levels of strontium-90. All I am trying to figure out is if I should move out of this area or if there is really no concern. As we all know about 65 or 75 miles from here the US government in its infinite wisdom blew up many many nuclear bombs and released a lot of junk into the atmosphere. I am just wondering if the Kingman -Golden Valley area is still contaminated to the point of concern?
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Some folks in the Golden Valley Arizona area back in 2011 claimed to have tested positive for high levels of strontium-90. All I am trying to figure out is if I should move out of this area or if there is really no concern. As we all know about 65 or 75 miles from here the US government in its infinite wisdom blew up many many nuclear bombs and released a lot of junk into the atmosphere. I am just wondering if the Kingman -Golden Valley area is still contaminated to the point of concern?

it's going to be hard for @Mick West to look at the test results (regarding your original question) if you don't have the test results for him to look at.

@Mick West , I want to know if you think the concerned citizens of Golden Valley actually have elevated levels of Strontium 90 in their blood?



As far as your general question,
I am just wondering if the Kingman -Golden Valley area is still contaminated to the point of concern?
You can Google it. You can call your local Health Agency. or you can ask your physician.
 

Jesse Brower

New Member
it's going to be hard for @Mick West to look at the test results (regarding your original question) if you don't have the test results for him to look at.





As far as your general question,

You can Google it. You can call your local Health Agency. or you can ask your physician.
Already called some places and doctors do not know about this stuff. Was wondering what Mick thinks
 

JFDee

Senior Member.
Some folks in the Golden Valley Arizona area back in 2011 claimed to have tested positive for high levels of strontium-90.
The first step would be trying to confirm or falsify these claims. Demand actual test results. Don't rely on hearsay.
Test methods and results for metals are often misinterpreted.

Keep in mind that there are various isotopes of Strontium some of which are stable and occurring naturally. So even a test that simply lists "Strontium" does not tell you much.
 

Leifer

Senior Member.
If your doctor doesn't know about local strontium levels or poisoning, then that is a good sign, correct ?
....because doc hasn't come across it, previously.
 
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