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Flight MH370 Speculation

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Hmm, I have a question, "So what?" . What does it matter if the actual wording was "alright, good night" or " Goodnight, Malaysian 370"?
Shall we now discuss the placing of commas in transcript of this transmission as well?

( note that I originally included a modifier between "so" and "what" but decided it was not technically required)
 
jaydeehess said:
Hmm, I have a question, "So what?" . What does it matter if the actual wording was "alright, good night" or " Goodnight, Malaysian 370"?
Shall we now discuss the placing of commas in transcript of this transmission as well?

( note that I originally included a modifier between "so" and "what" but decided it was not technically required)
Click to expand...


It doesn't really "matter", as you likely no doubt already know.

Anyone who is not already a pilot can listen to actual ATC "lingo" here:
http://www.liveatc.net/

(Just select the area you want to listen in on, and if there is an active feed ... provided by volunteers, is my understanding...then you can hear it).
 
jaydeehess said:
Hmm, I have a question, "So what?" . What does it matter if the actual wording was "alright, good night" or " Goodnight, Malaysian 370"?
Click to expand...

I think perhaps the non-pilot public thinks that saying "good night" is excessively informal for air traffic communication, and hence would indicate someone who was not a pilot, or someone of disrupted mental state.

However, saying "good day", or "good night", is a very common way of handing off (ATC hands you off when they are no longer going to talk to you), and then acknowledging you have been handed off. I would say "good day" all the time when flying.
 
When I first read the alleged translated transcript, it struck me that every comment, except the final good night hand-off, included the ident. As a layman, I found this strange.

ETA: But as the pilots among us didn't comment on it, I put it to the back of my mind - until I read this later "correction", hence my post of it.
 
Balance said:
When I first read the alleged translated transcript, it struck me that every comment, except the final good night hand-off, included the ident. As a layman, I found this strange.

ETA: But as the pilots among us didn't comment on it, I put it to the back of my mind - until I read this later "correction", hence my post of it.
Click to expand...
things get lost in translation too. the whole 'alright' seems weird/informal. maybe that's Malaysian for 'roger'. do pilots say roger?
 
deirdre said:
things get lost in translation too. the whole 'alright' seems weird/informal. maybe that's Malaysian for 'roger'. do pilots say roger?
Click to expand...

Pilots do say roger. And they can say relatively informal things too. It's not big deal (depending on the situation).
 
Mick West said:
Pilots do say roger. And they can say relatively informal things too. It's not big deal (depending on the situation).
Click to expand...
The informality did not strike me as in any way odd but of course I spent years as a tech working with ATC and FSS . On evening shifts as the only tech on duty I would hand out in one of those two stations.
The originally reported last transmission had itself struck me with the lack of flight ID sent but even that's not particularly odd for a non informational transmission especially if ATC was not particularly busy with a lot of flights.
 
jaydeehess said:
The originally reported last transmission had itself struck me with the lack of flight I sent
Click to expand...
I should have added, I noticed it was not just the flight ID that was absent but he also failed to repeat (confirm) the instruction to change and contact the frequency of Hochimin ATC, (though I can understand having done it a hundred times before it isn't unusual). Sorry to sound like a broken record but it just seemed odd that every other comment/reply did include clear repeats/confirmations, except the last one, which was not obeyed.
 
Taken from last PPRUNE site post today. i hope/believe not true thou it seems to stack up with evidence we have. After sign off either of crew get up go outside the cockpit door and it begins.

Q. How secure is cabin door and can a manual depressurization be done fast while the cockpit stays warm and with enuff O2 for 30 minutes?


planoramix
After weeks of search not a single item belonging to MH370 has been found.

It has vanished.

My personal view as B777 Captain:

no structural damage, smoke/fire condition or other non normal event could have prevented the pilot to transmit a distress signal.
If for any reason any of the above situation could have developped into a rapid loss consciousness and control by the pilots the aircraft would then have crashed somewhere in the proximate area of the event.

Initiation of an unlawfull interference would have given the pilots time to either set ATC code of transmit on VHF (even blind) and trace of it would then exist.

Without the intent to bring blame to anyone without having proof of it I can see the following scenario:

- A pilot wants to disappear without leaving trace and by doing so creating a situation putting a governemt in the international spotlight and only by leaving no trace, whatever the cost, will the action be successful.

- Once set on the task the pilot would, at an appropriate time, take control of the flightdeck.

- At a FIR ATC change over, disable Transponder (switch) and ACARS (cb's) and turn to the new course

- Cabin crew and eventually passengers could become a 'threat' .
Manual depressurization of the aircraft and a climb will within 22 minutes exaust the passenger oxygen whilst the freezing temperature takes care of any cabin crew member eventualy gone on portable oxygen.

- From then on the flight continues on a pre-planned course and level to avoid VHF and direct radar coverage.

- Once reached the area with a deep ocean bottom and before running out of fuel the pilot, as smoothly as possible (FCTM 8.5), ditches the aircraft

- No doors are opened and the aircraft sinks in one single unit without leaving debries.

The aircraft has vanished.
Content from External Source
 
Mick West said:
However, saying "good day", or "good night", is a very common way of handing off (ATC hands you off when they are no longer going to talk to you)
Click to expand...

I was JUST about to say the exact same thing.. One of my "hobbies" of sorts is listening to the ATC conversations while we wait to taxi or just after landing and begin to taxi (when I fly as a passenger on a commercial jet).. you hear it all the time "Flight XXXYYY, squawk 123456, -name of next tower-, good day/night"
 
Svartbjørn said:
I was JUST about to say the exact same thing.. One of my "hobbies" of sorts is listening to the ATC conversations while we wait to taxi or just after landing and begin to taxi (when I fly as a passenger on a commercial jet).. you hear it all the time "Flight XXXYYY, squawk 123456, -name of next tower-, good day/night"
Click to expand...
Wow your fortunate because every flight I've ever been on "commercially" I never hear so much as a peep from the cockpit. How are you hearing this, is there an app you download or a radio channel you listen into
 
Svartbjørn said:
I was JUST about to say the exact same thing.. One of my "hobbies" of sorts is listening to the ATC conversations while we wait to taxi or just after landing and begin to taxi (when I fly as a passenger on a commercial jet).. you hear it all the time "Flight XXXYYY, squawk 123456, -name of next tower-, good day/night"
Click to expand...

Actually, a 'squawk' code is always a four-digit number. Sorry, just being overly pedantic!!

Guessing it us United Airlines passenger audio??

'IF' you wish to listen, perhaps as you sit at the computer (and are somewhat starved for "entertainment"?)...this site:
http://www.liveatc.net/

Enter the appropriate ICAO term that you wish to listen in on. Note that like FR24, and some ADS-B data, this is usually supplied by volunteers (at least, this is my understanding of how "LiveATC" works).
 
Jason said:
...because every flight I've ever been on "commercially" I never hear so much as a peep from the cockpit.
Click to expand...

Back in the day, it was considered to be part of our "duty" to make PAs. ("PA" = Public Address).

(There is a story, a "Legend" about a PA made after landing in Wichita...once. The story is: "Welcome to Wichita, the time zone is Central Time, and you may now set your watches back 100 years").

The above ( ^^^) may or may not be true...but, still it's funny!!

(ETA): IF you fly and do not hear a PA from the pilots? They may just be pissed off (sorry, for the language). I went through that "angry" phase. We are only Human, after all!! (But, will always still fly the airplane safely and professionally...just to be clear!)

I once received what (in the industry) is sometimes referred to as an "Orchid Letter" (as compared to an "Onion Letter") when a passenger wrote the company to commend me, on a particular flight (when we encountered a significant ground delay) for keeping the passengers informed.

Few and far between, the "Orchid Letters", when compared to how most people just want to "complain", nowadays!!

But back to "Topic": I think that United Airlines first initiated the concept of adding the Comm #1 to the passenger audio channel (#9, MANY years ago). Seems that this "tradition" is being continued??

MORE "edits"....next time you fly as a passenger, please know this about the PA system (or, "Interphone/PA").

The cockpit PA will ALWAYS over-ride the Cabin Crew, when they are using the PA.

When you hear the "chimes"? A double-ding ("High-Low") chime is the Interphone. IF you press the "Call Button" (when at your seat, for example), it is a single chime. Lights are displayed to associate the type of call, and the chime.

Some airlines (mine) had as a secret, four chimes in succession. As an "Emergency" alert for the Cabin Crew. Other airlines likely have different "codes".

Just some FYI.
 
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Jason said:
Wow your fortunate because every flight I've ever been on "commercially" I never hear so much as a peep from the cockpit. How are you hearing this, is there an app you download or a radio channel you listen into
Click to expand...

I use the earphone jacks in the armrests.. plug the headset in and flip through the channels until you hear the chatter. The chatter ended once we were in flight up until we hit cruise, cut again as we descended and was active again on the runway for taxi to the gate. Got to hear a LOT of the ATC traffic, not just the stuff for our flight.. was a lot of fun to listen to and you learn a LOT about how the tin pushers do their jobs in the tower. Especially in huge hubs like Atlanta, LAX or Pearson.. the chatter's not stop.. its chaotic in one sense because there's just SO much going on, but as you listen you can feel the rhythm the pilots and the towers get into... its insane how well it works.
 
Last edited:
WeedWhacker said:
Actually, a 'squawk' code is always a four-digit number. Sorry, just being overly pedantic!!

Guessing it us United Airlines passenger audio??

'IF' you wish to listen, perhaps as you sit at the computer (and are somewhat starved for "entertainment"?)...this site:
http://www.liveatc.net/

Enter the appropriate ICAO term that you wish to listen in on. Note that like FR24, and some ADS-B data, this is usually supplied by volunteers (at least, this is my understanding of how "LiveATC" works).
Click to expand...

Yes, one of the flights was UA, but the last time I flew with them was when I headed out to Arkansas to see friends about 6 or 7 years ago.. IIRC this flight was Delta.. I think.. its been a while so I cant remember off hand but I know the last flight Im referring to wasnt UA.
 
derwoodii said:
Q. How secure is cabin door and can a manual depressurization be done fast while the cockpit stays warm and with enuff O2 for 30 minutes?
Click to expand...

The Flight deck door is very secure. I wont say how.

A manual depress can be done very fast but the flight deck would get just as cold as the rest of the aircraft. If you depressurise too fast however, you run a huge risk of developing "the bends", same as surfacing too fast from a scuba dive.

The flight deck has a different oxygen supply (tanks) to the cabin system (oxygen generators) and will last longer than the cabin system. Flight Attendants have bottles they can use to walk around, but they are low flow and mainly for use after a depressurisation where they would have to walk around a cabin at 10,000 feet for extended times.

I disagree with that scenario from the 777 captain on a couple of points. There is no need to climb to 42,000 feet. 35000 feet is more than enough to achieve the same goal if that is what it was. 42000 feet cabin altitude would also require the use of "pressure breathing" to remain conscious. Generally only military pilots get trained in that technique and I am not certain the over-pressure from the 777 cockpit oxygen system is enough to actually "pressure breath" properly. I have my own ideas about what the climb to 42000 was about, but it is speculation and I have no proof.

A gentle ditching in the southern ocean leaving the aircraft intact? Whoever did this knew it was a one way trip. A high speed dive into deep water would be much quicker and achieve the same result. I don't think it is possible to ditch a large airliner without it breaking up in some way. Even Sullenbergers A320 has the bottom of the fuselage ripped away, and that was landing a much lighter aircraft on a flat body of water.
 
I'd rather not... You can probably figure it out for yourself based on the info above. I don't want this particular line of speculation to start with me.
 
Nothing like a good conspiracy....

America is withdrawing from Afghanistan, one of their command and control system (used for controlling the pilotless drones) was hijacked by Talibans when the American transport convoy was moving down from one of the hill top bases. The Talibans ambushed the convoy and killed 2 American Seal personnel, seized the equipment/weapons, including the command and control system which weighed about 20 tons and packed into 6 crates. This happened about a month ago in Feb 2014.

The Talibans want money. They want to sell the system to Russia or China. The Russians are too busy in Ukraine. The Chinese are hungry for the system's technology. Just imagine if the Chinese master the technology behind the command and control system, all the American drones will become useless. So the Chinese sent 8 top defense scientists to check the system and agreed to pay millions for it.

Sometime in early Mar 2014, the 8 scientists and the 6 crates made their way to Malaysia, thinking that it was the best covert way to avoid detection. The cargo was then kept in the Embassy under diplomatic protection. Meanwhile America has engaged assistance of Israeli intelligence, and together they are determined to intercept and recapture the cargo.

Chinese calculated that it will be safe to transport it via civilian aircraft so as to avoid suspicion. After all the direct flight from KL to Beijing takes only 4 and half hours, and American will not hijack or harm civilians. So MH370 is the perfect carrier.

There are 5 American and Israeli agents onboard who are familiar with Boeing operation. The 2 "Iranians" with stolen passports could be among them.

When MH370 is about to leave Malaysian air space and reporting to Vietnamese air control, one American AWAC jammed their signal, disabled the pilot control system and switched over to remote control mode. That was when the plane suddenly lost altitude momentarily.

How can AWAC can do it ? Remember 911 incident ? After the 911 incident, all Boeing aircraft (and possibly all Airbus) are installed with remote control system to counter terrorist hijacking. Since then all Boeing can be remote controlled by ground control tower. The same remote control system used to control the pilotless spy aircraft and drones.

The 5 American/Israeli agents took over the plane, switched off the transponder and other communication system, changed course and flew westwards. They dare not fly east to Philippines or Guam because the whole South China Sea air space was covered by Chinese surveillance radar and satellite.

The Malaysian, Thai and Indian military radars actually detected the unidentified aircraft but did not react professionally.

The plane flew over North Sumatra, Anambas, South India and then landed at Maldives (some villagers saw the aircraft landing), refuelled and continued its flight to Diego Garcia the American Air Base in the middle of Indian Ocean. The cargo and the black box were removed. The passengers were silenced via natural means, lack of oxygen. They believe only dead people will not talk. The MH370 with dead passengers was air borne again via remote control and crashed into South Indian Ocean, making to believe that the plane eventually ran out of fuel and crashed, then blame the defiant captain and co-pilot.

American has put on a good show. First diverting all the attention and search effort in the South China Sea while the plane made their way to Indian Ocean. Then they came out with conflicting statements and evidence to confuse the world. Australian is the co-actor.

The amount of effort put up by China, in terms of the number of search aircraft, ships and satellites, searching first South China Sea, then Malacca Straits and Indian Ocean is unprecedented. This showed that China is very concerned, not so much about the many Chinese civilian passengers, but mainly the high value cargo and its 8 top defense scientists.Don't believe the story? I don't expect you to, but let's wait and see how this all unveils. Or perhaps it will never be known (until maybe the next Snowden emerges).
Content from External Source
Came via email.

Perhaps it should be in "Conspiracies"?
 
Svartbjørn said:
I use the earphone jacks in the armrests.. plug the headset in and flip through the channels until you hear the chatter. The chatter ended once we were in flight up until we hit cruise, cut again as we descended and was active again on the runway for taxi to the gate. Got to hear a LOT of the ATC traffic, not just the stuff for our flight.. was a lot of fun to listen to and you learn a LOT about how the tin pushers do their jobs in the tower. Especially in huge hubs like Atlanta, LAX or Pearson.
Click to expand...
OT: I wander what happens if there is an emergency. Do they shut off the ATC channel or leave it open? Or are times so stressed in those situations that they don't even remember to do so. It would be really weird if there was an emergency and you could actually hear the commotion between the cockpit and ATC, especially if no one knows whats going on in the cabin..
 
Those flight recorders will only transmit a signal for another week. If it's not found by then, I suppose they'll probably call off the search. Which is very sad to think about, but sustaining a search effort after the recorders stopped transmitting is just not feasible.

Even finding debris from that plane after this much time wouldn't provide much of a clue given how far it could have drifted away from it's origins.
 
TWCobra said:
I have my own ideas about what the climb to 42000 was about, but it is speculation and I have no proof.
Click to expand...
Could you please indulge us with your thoughts, I'm curious to know what a 777 pilot thinks happened. And if you won't indulge, could you at least give us a few reasons as to why a pilot would climb to the altitude? Could it have been by accident, maybe to get out of the way with incoming traffic?
 
Jazzy said:
Just imagine if the Chinese master the technology behind the command and control system, all the American drones will become useless. So the Chinese sent 8 top defense scientists to check the system and agreed to pay millions for it.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't an EMP pulse in high altitude pretty much disable all drones anyway...
 
Jason said:
I wander what happens if there is an emergency.
Click to expand...
I recently listend to a recording between ATC and a pilot (assumed to be) suffering hypoxia calling for assistance as he had no control of the aircraft. This implies emergencies remain openly transmitted.
 
Jazzy said:
How can AWAC can do it ? Remember 911 incident ? After the 911 incident, all Boeing aircraft (and possibly all Airbus) are installed with remote control system to counter terrorist hijacking. Since then all Boeing can be remote controlled by ground control tower. The same remote control system used to control the pilotless spy aircraft and drones.
Click to expand...
Is there any truth to this statement?
 
EMPs are tricky things Jason... for the most part, yes you're right, but as far as I know the only way to trigger a man made EMP is with the detonation of nuclear devices. Lightning does it because of the intense energy it carries, electric motors have EMPs but they're tiny. Thats why (correct me if Im wrong here guys), pilots like to stay as far away from lightning as they can.. forget the fact that they're flying a massive lightning magnet.. if the strike it self doesnt cause damage the resulting EMP obliterates the electrical equipment.
 
Svartbjørn said:
EMPs are tricky things Jason... for the most part, yes you're right, but as far as I know the only way to trigger a man made EMP is with the detonation of nuclear devices. Lightning does it because of the intense energy it carries, electric motors have EMPs but they're tiny. Thats why (correct me if Im wrong here guys), pilots like to stay as far away from lightning as they can.. forget the fact that they're flying a massive lightning magnet.. if the strike it self doesnt cause damage the resulting EMP obliterates the electrical equipment.
Click to expand...
We actually have a non nuclear EMP's;

Non-nuclear electromagnetic pulse (NNEMP)[edit]
Content from External Source



A National Airborne Operations Center Boeing E-4 on EMP simulator HAGII-C for testing.


USS Estocin (FFG-15) moored near EMPRESS I (antennae at top of image).
Non-nuclear electromagnetic pulse (NNEMP) is a weapon-generated electromagnetic pulse without use of nuclear technology. Devices that can achieve this objective include a large low-inductance capacitorbank discharged into a single-loop antenna, a microwave generator and an explosively pumped flux compression generator. To achieve the frequency characteristics of the pulse needed for optimal couplinginto the target, wave-shaping circuits and/or microwave generators are added between the pulse source and the antenna. Vircators are vacuum tubes that are particularly suitable for microwave conversion of high-energy pulses.[3]

NNEMP generators can be carried as a payload of bombs, cruise missiles (such as the CHAMP missile) and drones, with diminished mechanical, thermal and ionizing radiation effects, but without the political consequences of deploying nuclear weapons.

The range of NNEMP weapons (non-nuclear electromagnetic pulse bombs) is much less than nuclear EMP. Nearly all NNEMP devices used as weapons require chemical explosives as their initial energy source, producing only 10−6 (one millionth) the energy of nuclear explosives of similar weight.[4] The electromagnetic pulse from NNEMP weapons must come from within the weapon, while nuclear weapons generate EMP as a secondary effect.[5] These facts limit the range of NNEMP weapons, but allow finer target discrimination. The effect of small e-bombs has proven to be sufficient for certain terrorist or military operations. Examples of such operations include the destruction of electronic control systems critical to the operation of many ground vehicles and aircraft.[6]

The concept of the explosively pumped flux compression generator for generating a non-nuclear electromagnetic pulse was conceived as early as 1951 by Andrei Sakharov in the Soviet Union,[7] but nations kept work on non-nuclear EMP classified until similar ideas emerge in other nations.
Content from External Source
 
Just out of curiosity, who picks up the bill for the search and rescue. Does each nation pay their own expenses or do they submit a bill to the Malaysian government?
 
TWCobra said:
No.
Click to expand...
thanks, I would really love to hear your expert opinion on this. I enjoyed the link to the forum you provided that argued why it definitely couldn't have been a "ghost plane". I would as would others on here like to hear your opinion
 
Jazzy said:
Nothing like a good conspiracy....

America is withdrawing from Afghanistan, one of their command and control system (used for controlling the pilotless drones) was hijacked by Talibans when the American transport convoy was moving down from one of the hill top bases. The Talibans ambushed the convoy and killed 2 American Seal personnel, seized the equipment/weapons, including the command and control system which weighed about 20 tons and packed into 6 crates. This happened about a month ago in Feb 2014.

The Talibans want money. They want to sell the system to Russia or China. The Russians are too busy in Ukraine. The Chinese are hungry for the system's technology. Just imagine if the Chinese master the technology behind the command and control system, all the American drones will become useless. So the Chinese sent 8 top defense scientists to check the system and agreed to pay millions for it.

Sometime in early Mar 2014, the 8 scientists and the 6 crates made their way to Malaysia, thinking that it was the best covert way to avoid detection. The cargo was then kept in the Embassy under diplomatic protection. Meanwhile America has engaged assistance of Israeli intelligence, and together they are determined to intercept and recapture the cargo.

Chinese calculated that it will be safe to transport it via civilian aircraft so as to avoid suspicion. After all the direct flight from KL to Beijing takes only 4 and half hours, and American will not hijack or harm civilians. So MH370 is the perfect carrier.

There are 5 American and Israeli agents onboard who are familiar with Boeing operation. The 2 "Iranians" with stolen passports could be among them.

When MH370 is about to leave Malaysian air space and reporting to Vietnamese air control, one American AWAC jammed their signal, disabled the pilot control system and switched over to remote control mode. That was when the plane suddenly lost altitude momentarily.

How can AWAC can do it ? Remember 911 incident ? After the 911 incident, all Boeing aircraft (and possibly all Airbus) are installed with remote control system to counter terrorist hijacking. Since then all Boeing can be remote controlled by ground control tower. The same remote control system used to control the pilotless spy aircraft and drones.

The 5 American/Israeli agents took over the plane, switched off the transponder and other communication system, changed course and flew westwards. They dare not fly east to Philippines or Guam because the whole South China Sea air space was covered by Chinese surveillance radar and satellite.

The Malaysian, Thai and Indian military radars actually detected the unidentified aircraft but did not react professionally.

The plane flew over North Sumatra, Anambas, South India and then landed at Maldives (some villagers saw the aircraft landing), refuelled and continued its flight to Diego Garcia the American Air Base in the middle of Indian Ocean. The cargo and the black box were removed. The passengers were silenced via natural means, lack of oxygen. They believe only dead people will not talk. The MH370 with dead passengers was air borne again via remote control and crashed into South Indian Ocean, making to believe that the plane eventually ran out of fuel and crashed, then blame the defiant captain and co-pilot.

American has put on a good show. First diverting all the attention and search effort in the South China Sea while the plane made their way to Indian Ocean. Then they came out with conflicting statements and evidence to confuse the world. Australian is the co-actor.

The amount of effort put up by China, in terms of the number of search aircraft, ships and satellites, searching first South China Sea, then Malacca Straits and Indian Ocean is unprecedented. This showed that China is very concerned, not so much about the many Chinese civilian passengers, but mainly the high value cargo and its 8 top defense scientists.Don't believe the story? I don't expect you to, but let's wait and see how this all unveils. Or perhaps it will never be known (until maybe the next Snowden emerges).
Content from External Source
Came via email.

Perhaps it should be in "Conspiracies"?
Click to expand...
Jazzy I think its important to note that the Iranians claimed to have done the same thing with the US drone RQ170. Iranians claimed they commandeered the unmanned drone as it flew over Iranian airspace in the latter part of 2011, and that they landed the drone at Kandahar base. They claim they used cyberwarfare to bring it down. So if this can be done with a drone, the question is can it be done with an actual plane. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–U.S._RQ-170_incident
 
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