EgyptAir flight MS804

[Whitebeard]

This is a breaking / on going story, so facts and details may change.

The flight from Paris Charles de Gaul to Cairo was reported missing at 00;30 (gmt) just after leaving Greek airspace and entering Egyptian airspace and disappearing from radar. Greek ATC reported radio contact with the plane a few minutes before and reported all appeared 'normal'.

Latest reports suggest the plane has come down the Eastern Mediterranean.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36309492

An EgyptAir flight reported missing between Paris and Cairo has crashed, French President Francois Hollande confirmed.

The Airbus A320 with 66 people on board disappeared from radar at 02:30 Cairo time (00:30 GMT), soon after leaving Greek airspace.

Greece's defence minister says Flight MS804 made "sharp turns" and plunged before dropping off the radar.

A major search is under way in seas south of the Greek island of Karpathos.

Greek and Egyptian armed forces are involved in the effort, and France has offered to send boats and planes.

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Needless to say a quick trawl of the conspirasphere will find comments like

I saw a message from someone this morning that speculated that it was shot down by Mossad as it went missing over shared Israeli / Cyprus Airspace! An Israeli Goal of shutting down Egypt's Tourism industry just like what the did a few months back. It's a possibility and a bit more plausible than just an accident. Moreover I think the Media will start saying this was an ISIS attack.

Sounds right to me!

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Okay, this could be a simple accident, but several credible sources are pointing towards a "terrorist" attack. If this is the case, then we have to assume it wasn't just a random act of violence. As you posted earlier, this had to be planned. By people - psychopaths, probably, but still people.

If it was planned, then a date and a flight was chosen. "Coincidence" then has it that a flight with 804 in its designation was chosen, on a date that is 804 days on from whatever happened to flight MH370.

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from - https://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=307741&page=2 (but there are plenty of others)

Of course this is all wild CT speculation, but I thought I would start this thread to be ahead of the curve incase any of the wilder speculation gains traction before the real evidence comes to light.

 

[Whitebeard]

Latest reports say wreckage has been located

Greek officials say pieces of plastic and two orange items, possibly lifevests, have been spotted floating some 370km (230 miles) south-south-east of Crete.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36330879
The Greeks are also claiming 'terrorist attack' (a tad too soon in my opinion)

Egypt’s aviation minister Sherif Fathy said terrorism was more likely than technical failure

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to be the cause of the crash . “If you analysis the situation properly the possibility of having a terror attack is higher than the possibility of having a technical [problem],” he told reporters.

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http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/may/19/egyptair-plane-cairo-paris-live-updates

And here is a screen shot from https://www.vesselfinder.com/ showing three merchant ships assisting the search of the crash area

 

[vooke]

The wreckage is not from the plane.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/18/middleeast/egyptair-flight-disappears/index.html

The last one was most likely due to terrorists breaching Egypt airport. This one if as widely suspected is due to terrorism, then a Western capital airport was breached. Interesting

 

[Trailblazer]

The wreckage is not from the plane.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/18/middleeast/egyptair-flight-disappears/index.html

The last one was most likely due to terrorists breaching Egypt airport. This one if as widely suspected is due to terrorism, then a Western capital airport was breached. Interesting

Unless a device was planted on a previous flight leg.

 

[Whitebeard]

Unless a device was planted on a previous flight leg.

Plane: Airbus A320, manufactured in 2003. This flight was the plane's fifth of the day. It had already traveled to Asmara, Eritrea and Carthage in Tunisia

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From - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/19/egyptair-flight-ms804-disappears-what-we-know-so-far/

 

[NoParty]

I think we have a classic example of the unreliability of Google time-stamps here:

I just looked for stories about Trump's premature assertions about EgyptAir Flight MS804, which went missing earlier today.
My initial search, at about 2141 PDT, 19 May, 2016 showed a New Republic article supposedly dated "3 days ago"

 

[Qualiall]

For what it's worth--here is FlightRadar24's data on the flight
https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/contact-lost-with-egyptair-flight-804/

 

[Mick West]

There's a conspiracy theory that planes are crashng because the chemtrail equipment is blowing up:

http://www.look-up.org.uk/yet-another-a320-goes-down/

Yet another A320 goes down
How many times can this happen before people start to question it we wonder?


It is with great sadness and utter dismay that we report yet another A320 has gone down as predicted. Sadness of course for the passengers, but dismay at the fact that still nobody seems to be questioning publicly why so many A320s are crashing in mysterious circumstances. Of course the immediate claims of terrorism are being trotted off as authorities panic, wondering what on earth they are going to say this time to an increasingly alarmed public following the latest in what is likely to be a mid-air explosion caused by pressurised Climate Engineering systems on board the A320.

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[vooke]

There's a conspiracy theory that planes are crashng because the chemtrail equipment is blowing up:

http://www.look-up.org.uk/yet-another-a320-goes-down/

Yet another A320 goes down
How many times can this happen before people start to question it we wonder?


It is with great sadness and utter dismay that we report yet another A320 has gone down as predicted. Sadness of course for the passengers, but dismay at the fact that still nobody seems to be questioning publicly why so many A320s are crashing in mysterious circumstances. Of course the immediate claims of terrorism are being trotted off as authorities panic, wondering what on earth they are going to say this time to an increasingly alarmed public following the latest in what is likely to be a mid-air explosion caused by pressurised Climate Engineering systems on board the A320.

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Unremarkable and utterly ridiculous. Chemtrails CTs are largely North American and European or first world phenomena. So what would an Egyptian jet be spraying?

 

[vooke]

I think we have a classic example of the unreliability of Google time-stamps here:

I just looked for stories about Trump's premature assertions about EgyptAir Flight MS804, which went missing earlier today.
My initial search, at about 2141 PDT, 19 May, 2016 showed a New Republic article supposedly dated "3 days ago"

I can't authoritatively back it but I think this mismatch occurs on pages with multiple entries on different days

 

[Clunk]

There are a couple of points about this that are difficult to match up with the idea of a bomb on board completely destroying the aircraft in flight.
Firstly, if you are a terrorist and clever enough to secrete a device on the aircraft (no matter where it was done: Cairo, Paris or the other two destinations that day) why have it blow up near the end of it's trip over uninhabited sea and not northern France, for example?
Secondly, if it was 'blown out of the sky', where are the bits? Especially seat cushions, life jackets, interior furnishings etc that float? There should at least be some to be found.
Thirdly, and most importantly, radio contact was lost with the aircraft whilst it was still at cruise flight level and it was seen to remain there for a time until the descent and 'turns' happened. (These turns allegedly made were mentioned by the Greeks, but no source for the data was given).

 

[TEEJ]

The footage claiming to show MS804 on fire is re-cycled Russian space debris footage filmed in the US.

Published on 22 Dec 2015
Left my apartment to see this bright flash of light streak across the sky until it broke up into many pieces.

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[Auldy]

Secondly, if it was 'blown out of the sky', where are the bits? Especially seat cushions, life jackets, interior furnishings etc that float? There should at least be some to be found.

It has been (now), some patience please for search efforts @Clunk .

CAIRO: The Egyptian military says it has found parts of debris from the missing EgyptAir plane around 290 kilometres north of the Mediterranean coastal city of Alexandria.

The navy has also found some of the passengers' belongings and is sweeping the area looking for the plane's black box, the military said in a statement on Friday.

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http://m.smh.com.au/world/egyptair-...found-off-egyptian-coast-20160520-gp0b49.html

 

[JRBids]

There are a couple of points about this that are difficult to match up with the idea of a bomb on board completely destroying the aircraft in flight.
Firstly, if you are a terrorist and clever enough to secrete a device on the aircraft (no matter where it was done: Cairo, Paris or the other two destinations that day) why have it blow up near the end of it's trip over uninhabited sea and not northern France, for example?

Why would they necessarily be "that clever"?

Secondly, if it was 'blown out of the sky', where are the bits? Especially seat cushions, life jackets, interior furnishings etc that float? There should at least be some to be found.

If you are claiming it wasn't "blown out of the sky", where is the whole plane?

Thirdly, and most importantly, radio contact was lost with the aircraft whilst it was still at cruise flight level and it was seen to remain there for a time until the descent and 'turns' happened. (These turns allegedly made were mentioned by the Greeks, but no source for the data was given).

The fact that the plane was at cruising level when contact was lost would indicate a catastrophic failure (i.e. from a bomb), otherwise why wouldn't the pilots radio that they were in trouble? The descent and "turns" were pieces plummeting from the sky and breaking into pieces.

 

[vooke]

Better call GeoResonance

 

[Clunk]

Crikey, you lot. It's as if you think I'm claiming that it's been captured by aliens and hidden somewhere!!

I meant:
If it were "blown out of the sky" ie a catastrophic explosion at 37,000, then there would be a large debris field and an easily-detected amount of stuff on the sea surface over a large area. Since it has taken so long to find anything, then this suggests that this is not the case.

JRBids:
"Would they be that clever"? Yes, they would have to be. Clever enough to get a bomb on an aircraft at the primary airport of one of the world's currently most security-conscious nations, after recent attacks? I think you have to be quite clever. Clever enough to get a bomb on board in Tunisia or Eritrea and have it undiscovered for almost the whole day and not go off? Clever or lucky (or unlucky depending on what you wanted to do).
Also consider this, ("why would the pilots not radio that they were in trouble?") as that truck crosses the central reservation towards you at 140 mph closing speed,you would immediately call the emergency services on your cell phone? Of course not. You do what you can in that moment to save your skin. What use to you is 'radioing that you're in trouble?' What is anyone else going to do to help? You will be pleased to know that as professional pilots we put the safety of ourselves first and our passengers and crew a close second and informing the world what we are doing at least third, if that.

The very similar descent and turns made by Air France 447 and Air Asia 8501 were made by fully intact, serviceable aircraft, not pieces, by the way, so it is by no means certain that a bomb is the only explanation. It is most likely, but, in my opinion (please respect it, I've been an Airbus 320 pilot for 15 years) what happened caused a loss of control and not a massive in-flight break up.

By the way I have been in that exact position over the med on my way from Europe to Egypt many times and it is quite normal to have poor communication with ATC, especially Cairo control, being so far from land.

 

[Clunk]

Now, then:

There were smoke alerts inside the cabin of the EgyptAir passenger plane before it crashed in the Mediterranean on Thursday, reports say.

Smoke was detected in the toilet and the aircraft's electrics, just minutes before the signal was lost, according to data published on air industry website the Aviation Herald.

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Philip Baum, the editor of Aviation Security International Magazine, told the BBC that technical failure could not be ruled out.

"There was smoke reported in the aircraft lavatory, then smoke in the avionics bay, and over a period of three minutes the aircraft's systems shut down, so you know, that's starting to indicate that it probably wasn't a hijack, it probably wasn't a struggle in the cockpit, it's more likely a fire on board.

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[Rico]

Also on 20 May, The Aviation Herald received information, from three independent channels, that ACARS messages with the following content had been received from the aircraft:

• 00:26Z 3044 ANTI ICE R WINDOW
• 00:26Z 561200 R SLIDING WINDOW SENSOR
• 00:26Z 2600 SMOKE LAVATORY SMOKE
• 00:27Z 2600 AVIONICS SMOKE
• 00:28Z 561100 R FIXED WINDOW SENSOR
• 00:29Z 2200 AUTO FLT FCU 2 FAULT
• 00:29Z 2700 F/CTL SEC 3 FAULT

Grabbed that from wiki.

It appears they were starting to get faults pretty much the same time smoke was detected in the lavs. Have to wonder where it all started.

Pretty awful way to go though.

 

[Hama Neggs]

There's a conspiracy theory that planes are crashng because the chemtrail equipment is blowing up:

http://www.look-up.org.uk/yet-another-a320-goes-down/

Yet another A320 goes down
How many times can this happen before people start to question it we wonder?


It is with great sadness and utter dismay that we report yet another A320 has gone down as predicted. Sadness of course for the passengers, but dismay at the fact that still nobody seems to be questioning publicly why so many A320s are crashing in mysterious circumstances. Of course the immediate claims of terrorism are being trotted off as authorities panic, wondering what on earth they are going to say this time to an increasingly alarmed public following the latest in what is likely to be a mid-air explosion caused by pressurised Climate Engineering systems on board the A320.

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That's the latest "work around" I've seen when you tell chemmies that the planes can't physically contain enough material. "High pressure tanks".

 

[vooke]

Quite telling that no group has claimed responsibility

 

[munchie]

Would this maneuver indicate that the pilot was in control and purposefully taking the plane to lower altitude, or is it some kind of a system failure resulting in uncontrolled dive?

 

[Clunk]

That's difficult to say, really. In any fire or smoke scenario the priority is to get on the ground as soon as possible, so it could be an initial turn to 'somewhere', although the nearest place was probably Alexandria, straight ahead and the next nearest to the right and behind at Heraklion in Crete. The drills also suggest an immediate descent to 10,000 feet to allow venting of the cabin to take place in case smoke is a greater threat than fire. If it was a fire, then it seems as if it probably started and developed quickly. All the reported systems (failure of the window heat detectors, triggering or failure of smoke alarms, flight control computers) are fed from the same electrical bus situated in the lower right side of the nose (the avionics compartment, where the 'avionics smoke' detector is).
On the other hand, if one flight control computer was affected, then maybe more than one could be and so a potential loss of control is a possibility, even if the flight crew were unaffected by the fire.

 

[Raccoon]

https://irishchristianperspective.b...howComment=1463850935741#c7454841187232763726 *sigh* some people... Like vultures drawn to a carcass...

 

[Hama Neggs]

https://irishchristianperspective.b...howComment=1463850935741#c7454841187232763726 *sigh* some people... Like vultures drawn to a carcass...

Quote please?

 

[NoParty]

Quote please?

I think Racoon is (appropriately) criticizing the tacky, ignorant content of the person who made the long post,
(complaining that families of victims were not grieving fully in accordance with his demands/expectations...)
with Racoon using the "vultures" language of someone responding to the OP...

 

[Whitebeard]

https://irishchristianperspective.b...howComment=1463850935741#c7454841187232763726 *sigh* some people... Like vultures drawn to a carcass...

Its a long and typically sick CT ramble going on about crisis actors, secret airfields extra.

But the bizarre part is linking the UK victim, a Mr Richard Osman, with the TV presenter, writer, producer of the same name. Why him? Why not Richard Osman of Lancing in Surrey, or Richard Osman of Bexhill on Sea, or any one of dozen or so other Richard Osmans I discovered after a 10 minute search through various UK phone directories and other listiings on line?

Whoever wrote that diatribe really does have issues.

 

[Raccoon]

The one who wrote that think all the people in the photos are 'actors' and the plane never has been crashed.

Here is what I believe really has happened:

A plane full of 56 secret service agents / paid off crisis actors has taken off from Paris and safely landed in some unspecified airport. A black box and some "debris" has been scattered in the Mediterranean off Egypt's coastline by a military plane which turned off its ability to be tracked by radar as soon as it got near the Egyptian coastline. Just before it did so, it manoeuvred through some fake acrobatics to make it appear it was going to crash into the ocean.

The "grieving relatives" are in the know and all will shortly be reunited with their very much alive relatives, who have been enriched with crisis actor pay and hush money for the rest of their lives.

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Man. How sick do you have to be in your mind to BELIEVE that?! Bah!

 

[Whitebeard]

Man. How sick do you have to be in your mind to BELIEVE that?! Bah!

Sadly its an all too common mantra these days; Sandy Hook, 7/7, the Paris massacre, The Boston Marathon Bombing... in fact nearly all major incidents and accidents in recent years are followed by some sick puppy crying on about false flags, crisis actors and the like.

Man. How sick do you have to be in your mind to BELIEVE that?! Bah!

It certainly shows a lack of empathy and maybe sociopathic tendencies.

 

[Hama Neggs]

It certainly shows a lack of empathy and maybe sociopathic tendencies.

I think a lot of it is now coming from the "Me too!!" people who had no previous idea of a defined self-hood of their own. Most of our world societies have precious little in the way of actual culture or any clear meaningfulness offered to it's people. It's become more of a world "culture" as defined by the bankrupt offerings of Facebook and other social media. It's no wonder that insecure people are so desperate to see themselves as "above it all" and gravitate to CTs.

 

[JRBids]

That's difficult to say, really. In any fire or smoke scenario the priority is to get on the ground as soon as possible, so it could be an initial turn to 'somewhere', although the nearest place was probably Alexandria, straight ahead and the next nearest to the right and behind at Heraklion in Crete. The drills also suggest an immediate descent to 10,000 feet to allow venting of the cabin to take place in case smoke is a greater threat than fire. If it was a fire, then it seems as if it probably started and developed quickly. All the reported systems (failure of the window heat detectors, triggering or failure of smoke alarms, flight control computers) are fed from the same electrical bus situated in the lower right side of the nose (the avionics compartment, where the 'avionics smoke' detector is).
On the other hand, if one flight control computer was affected, then maybe more than one could be and so a potential loss of control is a possibility, even if the flight crew were unaffected by the fire.

Do they have some kind of sealed masks they can access if the cockpit does fill with smoke?

 

[Rico]

Smoke goggles and oxygen masks are standard equipment. There are self contained and sealed hoods, although I'm not sure if airlines all carry them

 

[Clunk]

I'm pretty sure that smoke hoods should be standard equipment on any commercial aircraft of this size, but they are not suitable for wear for an operating pilot. Instead the A320 has a quick donning oxygen mask with integrated goggles, where the default setting provides 100% oxygen.This is an Airbus-produced video on how it works:

Donning it should be the first action on recognition of smoke or fumes.

 

[vooke]

Sadly its an all too common mantra these days; Sandy Hook, 7/7, the Paris massacre, The Boston Marathon Bombing... in fact nearly all major incidents and accidents in recent years are followed by some sick puppy crying on about false flags, crisis actors and the like.

It certainly shows a lack of empathy and maybe sociopathic tendencies.

Do they really believe these or they just compete at churning out fiction?

 

[Whitebeard]

Do they really believe these or they just compete at churning out fiction?

Both, some are just trolls, but sadly others believe the delusion hook lone and sinker

 

[cicadia]

in some other forums they discuss about "Air hostess on EgyptAir predicted her death"
log in and have a look at Picture posted September 2014...
https://www.facebook.com/SDin7

Furthermore,
"In an eerie coincidence, the EgyptAir jetliner that plunged into the Mediterranean on Thursday was once the target of political vandals who wrote in Arabic on its underside, “We will bring this plane down.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/22/w...column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

 

[Trailspotter]

A new twist on possible crash causes from Daily Express:
Did METEOR destroy EgyptAir MS804 jet? Shocking theory could impact future of air travel

 

[Whitebeard]

A new twist on possible crash causes from Daily Express:
Did METEOR destroy EgyptAir MS804 jet? Shocking theory could impact future of air travel

I suppose it IS possible, but the chances must be billions to one of it happening.

 

[JRBids]

Would a puncture hole make it explode? Or start a fire in a lav?

 

[Clunk]

A hole in the fuselage would not automatically mean the destruction of the aircraft. United 811 and Aloha 243 are examples





There are doubts about the fault messages received. As I mentioned, the last known position is in an area of poor radio contact. ACARS relies on VHF for its transmission and so it's possible that more messages were generated and not transmitted. Also, ACARS can send a 'group' of messages at once that may have been triggered at different times. The messages may not indicate triggering of the smoke warnings at all, possibly just that there were 'irregularities' with the monitoring device, or power supply.
There's not much in a lav to burn that's not in the rest of the cabin, just plastic and metal. The waste bin has an integral automatic extinguisher.
The way air is circulated in the 320 is that cabin air is extracted via the lavs (to reduce unpleasant 'atmospheres' in the cabin) and via the flight deck through the avionics compartment for cooling of the equipment. This means that the presence of smoke in the flight deck or in the cabin, especially near a toilet, will most likely trigger the smoke warnings in the lav and avionics bay anyway, despite the source of the fire being elsewhere.

 

[Hevach]

I suppose it IS possible, but the chances must be billions to one of it happening.

And if it did, its impact on the future of air travel would be nothing.

An incredibly unlikely event which cannot be predicted, does not have a long-term certainty of occurring like an earthquake, and which upon happening cannot be defended against? There's a reason why civilian buildings were never widely hardened against nuclear strikes. You check if your insurance covers it and just kind of shrug your shoulders.