# Debunked: Ottawa Shooting Hoax/Shadow's Prove Wrong Times

#### CaptainBeefheart

##### New Member
I'm also interested in debunking this if anyone wants to help with that:

Last edited by a moderator:

#### CaptainBeefheart

##### New Member
Particularly the claim that the cops were set up and ready for the shoot-out based on this photo ... apparently the Ottawa Police and RCMP should not be seen together like this... and that the shadows prove this was taken at 9:30am

#### Trailspotter

##### Senior Member.
Particularly the claim that the cops were set up and ready for the shoot-out based on this photo ... apparently the Ottawa Police and RCMP should not be seen together like this... and that the shadows prove this was taken at 9:30am

I have drawn shadows of the three nearest lampposts on Google Earth. They give the Sun azimuth bearings of 136±1° at the time of the photo.

According to the Sun position calculation for Ottawa on 22 October, this corresponds to the time interval between 10:00 and 10:15 EDT:

So it looks like the picture has been taken after the shooting started.

#### cloudspotter

##### Senior Member.
Can you draw in an estimated position of the shadows at 9:30?

#### Trailspotter

##### Senior Member.
Can you draw in an estimated position of the shadows at 9:30?
Yes, the estimated shadow positions at 9:30 EDT are shown below with yellow lines (bearings 128°):

The actual positions (shown with purple lines) have been derived with the help of distinct ground features used for reference: the zebra crossing, the fence pylons, the road markings ('turn left' arrow sign, dark spots, etc).

Last edited:

#### cloudspotter

##### Senior Member.
Guess that one is debunked then

#### NoParty

##### Senior Member.
I have drawn shadows of the three nearest lampposts on Google Earth. They give the Sun azimuth bearings of 136±1° at the time of the photo.

According to the Sun position calculation for Ottawa on 22 October, this corresponds to the time interval between 10:00 and 10:15 EDT:

So it looks like the picture has been taken after the shooting started.
So you're admitting that the sun was in on it, too? Nice work, Trailspotter...

#### BombDr

##### Senior Member.
But, wouldn't an actual false-flag look more professional? Wouldn't "they" make the CPR look legit rather than full of mistakes that could be "debunked" on Youtube?

Logic does not apply to a lot of Conspiracy Theorists though, unless it is warped logic:

Someone doing CPR incorrectly - possible causes:

1. Someone not trained in CPR
2. Someone acting under extreme stress
2. CRISIS ACTORS AS PART OF FALSE FLAG TO (Insert conspiracy of choice)

Staff member

#### CaptainBeefheart

##### New Member
Oops, sorry. But thanks for debunking that photo! Much appreciated

#### deirdre

##### Senior Member.
The actual positions (shown with purple lines) have been derived with the help of distinct ground features used for reference: the zebra crossing, the brick fence posts, the road markings ('turn left' arrow sign, dark spots, etc).
heres the posting link (from above claim) that shows someone getting a 8:18 time... but using a different sunshadow tool. maybe you can try that one too and see if maybe some of these programs are flawed..would be useful info.

he used suncalc.net

note: I find NO online source for this photo other than CT type blogs and this fb thread below, she seems to be saying her source (she originally uploaded this at 10:50ish on oct 22nd) is only 'claiming' he took the photo at 9:30. no proof was given as far as I can tell from the photo taker...that I can find anyway

so its kinda a "suncalculation program war" (ie which program is right)

https://archive.today/UvFWe

#### Trailspotter

##### Senior Member.
heres the posting link (from above claim) that shows someone getting a 8:18 time... but using a different sunshadow tool. maybe you can try that one too and see if maybe some of these programs are flawed..would be useful info.

he used suncalc.net

note: I find NO online source for this photo other than CT type blogs and this fb thread below, she seems to be saying her source (she originally uploaded this at 10:50ish on oct 22nd) is only 'claiming' he took the photo at 9:30. no proof was given as far as I can tell from the photo taker...that I can find anyway

so its kinda a "suncalculation program war" (ie which program is right)

https://archive.today/UvFWe

There is nothing wrong with the SunCalc tool this guy (Pat Jack) used, except it displays times in the user's local time by default.
This is how its results look for me:

On the date of 22nd October my local time (BST) was 5 hours ahead of the Ottawa's time (EDT). So my SunCalc result of 15:04 BST is the same 10:04 EDT as in my analysis above. The guy's local time (CDT) was one hour behind the Ottawa's time. Also, he used a wrong date, October 24, that might affect the minute values of his estimate. And I have no idea about how he figured out the shadow directions, as it is not possible to zoom in the satellite image of this area on Google Maps, it switches to a tilted aerial image:

If he had used this, the tilt would introduce a significant error.

PS From the guy's comment on FB, it looks like he got it wrong by about two hours; one hour probably came from a different time zone, the other could have come from the tilt of the aerial image:

Last edited:

#### Redwood

##### Active Member
The person who put up the "shadow" YouTube has admitted he was wrong and taken down the video. () Like zombies, the claim is unkillable and still circulates on hard core crazy conspiracist YouTube sites like "Free Radio Revolution" which has at least 40 (!) videos up proclaiming it's a hoax, and I'm sure there'll be more.

#### Trailspotter

##### Senior Member.
PS From the guy's comment on FB, it looks like he got it wrong by about two hours; one hour probably came from a different time zone, the other could have come from the tilt of the aerial image

There is another FB comment by Pat Jack, where he explained his method:

He started with Google Earth, as I did. He used the shadow from the same lamp post (one of the three I used) and got for it the same heading of 136°, as measured by GE ruler tool. This raises the question: why is his calculated time so different from my result? It can't be due to different calculation methods: people have been doing astronomical calculations for centuries and they known to be very accurate.

If Pat Jack had plotted this heading directly on SunCalc, as I did in my previous post by orienting the ORANGE line at 136° to the vertical (that is, to the North on the map), he would get the same time reading about 10:04 EDT, but displayed for him as 9:04 CDT. He knows that he is an hour off, but this is not "because the applet is not set for daylight savings time", it is because it shows the user's local time for a given date. However, his calculated time is about 45 minutes earlier. Why is it? Having followed his instructions, I've reproduced his result as best as I could to get the "estimated time" of 14:18 BST (9:18 EDT):

Apparently, he switched to Satellite option to see the lamp post and road markings but ignored the fact that the ground became tilted when he zoomed in. The tilt subtracted about 11° from the actual shadow direction, or 45 minutes from the actual time. Just compare the angles between the white line and vertical edge of his Google Earth screenshot and between the orange line and vertical edge of my reproduction of his SunCalc application. The app is made for the map and "does not know" that ground was tilted.

Last edited:

Replies
3
Views
984
Replies
12
Views
2K
Thread starter Related Articles Forum Replies Date
Debunked: Google photos show Ottawa Parliament bullet holes are fake Conspiracy Theories 115
Poll : Which DOD Navy video do you consider debunked ? UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 38
Debunked: Diving Triangle UFO Photos from Reddit [Fake] UFOs and Aliens 37
[Debunked] Object Seen From Airplane Above Canberra: 04 Apr 2012 Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 5
Debunked: Claim that Joe Biden's hand passes through microphone during White House press gaggle, 16th March 2021 Election 2020 8
Debunked: "Interdimensional being" caught on CCTV in Neza, Mexico Ghosts, Monsters, and the Paranormal 6
Debunked: Atmospheric pressure on Mars is 9 PSI, not 0.09 PSI as claimed by NASA Science and Pseudoscience 75
Debunked: missing cable on Perseverance landing footage proves it is fake. General Discussion 3
Debunked: Biden's Oval Office "Coming Apart at the Seams" [It's a Door] Election 2020 19
Debunked: UFO over California Highway (TMZ) UFOs and Aliens 1
Debunked: 7 Alleged photos of aliens UFOs and Aliens 9
Debunked: Biden signing "Blank" Executive Orders Election 2020 5
Debunked: Biden in "Fake" Oval Office Election 2020 27
Debunked: UN hidden camera: the first UFO contact happened [Deep Fake] UFOs and Aliens 3
Debunked: 94% of Fulton County Ballots Manually Adjudicated [It's a Process all Batches go Through] Election 2020 0
Debunked: "Missile Strike" caused Nashville Explosion General Discussion 3
Debunked: Nashville Explosion was "Across the Street" from the RV General Discussion 0
Debunked: "Error rate of 68.5% Allowable is .0008%" [Neither is True] Election 2020 4
Debunked: Claim that the Electoral College Count On Jan 6 will Change the Election Election 2020 136
Debunked: Einstein wrote "blind belief in authority is the greatest enemy of truth" Quotes Debunked 12
Debunked: Navid Keshavarz-Nia's Claims of "A Sudden Rise in Slope" as Election Fraud Evidence Election 2020 5
Debunked: Trump's Claim of "1,126,940 votes created out of thin air" in PA Election 2020 8
Debunked: Crowder's "Fraud Week" Title Graphic (and Why it Matters) Election 2020 1
Debunked: Democratic senators complained about 'vote switching' by Dominion voting machines in 2019 Election 2020 2
Debunked: The Democrats are trying to take away freedom of religion Election 2020 6
Debunked: Dr. Shiva's Scatterplot Analysis of Michigan Precincts Election 2020 43
Debunked: Suspicious "Biden Only" Ballots in Georgia Election 2020 3
Debunked: "Nancy Pelosi's long time Chief of Staff is a key executive at Dominion Voting" Election 2020 0
Debunked: Wisconsin Turnout 89% Impossible High [Actually 72%] Election 2020 1
Debunked: Video of Poll Worker "Filling In" Ballots. Election 2020 3
Debunked: Pentagon has Evidence of "Off-World Vehicles Not Made on this Earth" UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 14
Debunked: United Nations creates a "NWO" website Conspiracy Theories 2
Debunked: The WHO did not take the Taiwan CDC seriously Coronavirus COVID-19 0
Why 9/11 Truthers Are Wrong About The Facts | (Part 1 w/ Mick West) 9/11 1
Debunked: Radar Waves Affect Clouds General Discussion 4
Need Debunking: Foucault's Pendulum debunked through Mach's principle (the Earth is a static object in the center of the Universe) Science and Pseudoscience 16
Ufos arrive to the central zone of Chile. (Debunked). Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 0
FE Debunked with water tube level - 187 foot building 21.2 miles away below eye level Flat Earth 0
Debunked: Cadillac Mountain from 220 miles Flat Earth 7
FE Claim Debunked: JTolan Epic Gravity Experiment - Flat earther disproves Perspective! (or his instruments.) Flat Earth 0
Debunked: DoD prepares for martial law in CONUS: Conspiracy Theories 0
Debunked: AE911T: CNBC Anchor Ron Insana claims Building 7 a Controlled Implosion 9/11 13
Debunked: NASA tampered with the original television audio of the Apollo 11 moon landing Conspiracy Theories 1
Debunked: media headline "Judea declares war on Germany" [boycott] Conspiracy Theories 20
Discovery Channel's "Contact: Declassified Breakthrough" was debunked 2.5 years ago UFOs and Aliens 8
Debunked: "The North Face of Building 7 Was Pulled Inward" 9/11 66
Debunked : Fake Set Moon Landing with TV Camera and Stairs Conspiracy Theories 3
Debunked: Photo with Sun Rays at Odd Angles Flat Earth 0
Debunked: Wikileaks releases unused footage of moon landing (Capricorn One movie scenes) Conspiracy Theories 2