Debunked: Ottawa Shooting Hoax/Shadow's Prove Wrong Times

CaptainBeefheart

New Member
Particularly the claim that the cops were set up and ready for the shoot-out based on this photo ... apparently the Ottawa Police and RCMP should not be seen together like this... and that the shadows prove this was taken at 9:30am
 

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
Particularly the claim that the cops were set up and ready for the shoot-out based on this photo ... apparently the Ottawa Police and RCMP should not be seen together like this... and that the shadows prove this was taken at 9:30am
I have drawn shadows of the three nearest lampposts on Google Earth. They give the Sun azimuth bearings of 136±1° at the time of the photo.
Ottawa shadows.jpg
According to the Sun position calculation for Ottawa on 22 October, this corresponds to the time interval between 10:00 and 10:15 EDT:
Screen shot 2014-11-07 at 11.18.46.png
So it looks like the picture has been taken after the shooting started.
 

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
Can you draw in an estimated position of the shadows at 9:30?
Yes, the estimated shadow positions at 9:30 EDT are shown below with yellow lines (bearings 128°):
Ottawa shadows 9-30.jpg

The actual positions (shown with purple lines) have been derived with the help of distinct ground features used for reference: the zebra crossing, the fence pylons, the road markings ('turn left' arrow sign, dark spots, etc).
 
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NoParty

Senior Member.
I have drawn shadows of the three nearest lampposts on Google Earth. They give the Sun azimuth bearings of 136±1° at the time of the photo.
View attachment 10047
According to the Sun position calculation for Ottawa on 22 October, this corresponds to the time interval between 10:00 and 10:15 EDT:
View attachment 10049
So it looks like the picture has been taken after the shooting started.
So you're admitting that the sun was in on it, too? :cool: Nice work, Trailspotter...
 

BombDr

Senior Member.
But, wouldn't an actual false-flag look more professional? Wouldn't "they" make the CPR look legit rather than full of mistakes that could be "debunked" on Youtube?

Logic does not apply to a lot of Conspiracy Theorists though, unless it is warped logic:

Someone doing CPR incorrectly - possible causes:

1. Someone not trained in CPR
2. Someone acting under extreme stress
2. CRISIS ACTORS AS PART OF FALSE FLAG TO (Insert conspiracy of choice)
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
The actual positions (shown with purple lines) have been derived with the help of distinct ground features used for reference: the zebra crossing, the brick fence posts, the road markings ('turn left' arrow sign, dark spots, etc).
heres the posting link (from above claim) that shows someone getting a 8:18 time... but using a different sunshadow tool. maybe you can try that one too and see if maybe some of these programs are flawed..would be useful info.

he used suncalc.net

note: I find NO online source for this photo other than CT type blogs and this fb thread below, she seems to be saying her source (she originally uploaded this at 10:50ish on oct 22nd) is only 'claiming' he took the photo at 9:30. no proof was given as far as I can tell from the photo taker...that I can find anyway

so its kinda a "suncalculation program war" (ie which program is right)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...20610779.56929.100000354889246&type=1&theater
https://archive.today/UvFWe
 

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
heres the posting link (from above claim) that shows someone getting a 8:18 time... but using a different sunshadow tool. maybe you can try that one too and see if maybe some of these programs are flawed..would be useful info.

he used suncalc.net

note: I find NO online source for this photo other than CT type blogs and this fb thread below, she seems to be saying her source (she originally uploaded this at 10:50ish on oct 22nd) is only 'claiming' he took the photo at 9:30. no proof was given as far as I can tell from the photo taker...that I can find anyway

so its kinda a "suncalculation program war" (ie which program is right)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...20610779.56929.100000354889246&type=1&theater
https://archive.today/UvFWe
There is nothing wrong with the SunCalc tool this guy (Pat Jack) used, except it displays times in the user's local time by default.
This is how its results look for me:
Screen shot 2014-11-07 at 19.17.54.png
On the date of 22nd October my local time (BST) was 5 hours ahead of the Ottawa's time (EDT). So my SunCalc result of 15:04 BST is the same 10:04 EDT as in my analysis above. The guy's local time (CDT) was one hour behind the Ottawa's time. Also, he used a wrong date, October 24, that might affect the minute values of his estimate. And I have no idea about how he figured out the shadow directions, as it is not possible to zoom in the satellite image of this area on Google Maps, it switches to a tilted aerial image:
Screen shot 2014-11-07 at 19.43.01.png
If he had used this, the tilt would introduce a significant error.

PS From the guy's comment on FB, it looks like he got it wrong by about two hours; one hour probably came from a different time zone, the other could have come from the tilt of the aerial image:
 
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Redwood

Active Member
The person who put up the "shadow" YouTube has admitted he was wrong and taken down the video. () Like zombies, the claim is unkillable and still circulates on hard core crazy conspiracist YouTube sites like "Free Radio Revolution" which has at least 40 (!) videos up proclaiming it's a hoax, and I'm sure there'll be more.
 

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
PS From the guy's comment on FB, it looks like he got it wrong by about two hours; one hour probably came from a different time zone, the other could have come from the tilt of the aerial image
There is another FB comment by Pat Jack, where he explained his method:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10205184932693141&set=p.10205184932693141&type=1&theater

He started with Google Earth, as I did. He used the shadow from the same lamp post (one of the three I used) and got for it the same heading of 136°, as measured by GE ruler tool. This raises the question: why is his calculated time so different from my result? It can't be due to different calculation methods: people have been doing astronomical calculations for centuries and they known to be very accurate.

If Pat Jack had plotted this heading directly on SunCalc, as I did in my previous post by orienting the ORANGE line at 136° to the vertical (that is, to the North on the map), he would get the same time reading about 10:04 EDT, but displayed for him as 9:04 CDT. He knows that he is an hour off, but this is not "because the applet is not set for daylight savings time", it is because it shows the user's local time for a given date. However, his calculated time is about 45 minutes earlier. Why is it? Having followed his instructions, I've reproduced his result as best as I could to get the "estimated time" of 14:18 BST (9:18 EDT):
Screen shot 2014-11-08 at 09.26.08.png
Apparently, he switched to Satellite option to see the lamp post and road markings but ignored the fact that the ground became tilted when he zoomed in. The tilt subtracted about 11° from the actual shadow direction, or 45 minutes from the actual time. Just compare the angles between the white line and vertical edge of his Google Earth screenshot and between the orange line and vertical edge of my reproduction of his SunCalc application. The app is made for the map and "does not know" that ground was tilted.
 
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