So the technical aspects of this are so far over-my-head it's not worth me even trying but i'm very keen to get an understanding and am hoping some of the clever folk on here can help me with that!
According to the below (yet to be peer reviewed) paper, one of Bob's claims regarding the Gravity-B Wave Frequency of 7.46 (Hz) has been shown to be correct?
This seems a bit mad to me so I'm hoping it can be explained and am looking forward to a discussion around it. The conclusion does go on to say that these findings infer "the entire Lazar story is genuine" which is a mighty ol claim to make - if these findings do end up being proven correct then that's potentially a discussion for another day but for now, can anyone shed any light / knowledge on this paper? And explain to a layman like myself what it means?
In this article, we have validated Robert Lazar’s implied 1989 Gravity-B Wave Frequency Claim of 7.46 (Hz)utilising Quantised Fourier Harmonics (QFH); such that it does not require the existence of Element-115 (Moscovium),Area-51, S-4, Extraterrestrial Intelligence or US Government Conspiracy. We have demonstrated that Robert Lazarpredicted a Quantum Vacuum (QV) property of the Earth at its surface, which is presently unknown to the StandardModel of Particle-Physics (SMoP2) & the Standard Model of Cosmology (SMoC). Robert Lazar has successfullypredicted the existence of new Quantum Physics (QP), seventeen (17) years in advance of the 2006 method developedby Storti & Desiato [5], which facilitates the confirmation of Lazar’s claim. The significance of this being that the onlytestable scientific claim made by Robert Lazar has been validated, inferring that the entire Lazar story is genuine. Theconsequences of this are that all non-scientific assertions presented by Lazar credibility assassins, may be discarded enmasse. To conclude that the Lazar story is a hoax, based upon so-called ‘missing documentation’ or any other metric,has been summarily overturned by the existence of the scientific evidence we have presented.
I used the search function just in case this had been brought up in a different thread but couldn't locate anything. Sorry if it has an i've missed something and if so, please link me!
Over half of the citations are the author's prior work and youtube videos. Author's prior work includes Aligning Biblical Cosmology to Standard Cosmology and his "Quinta Essentia" which claims to unite gravity with electromagnetism (if true, he should be getting his Nobel any day now ). Author also claims that 7.46 GHz wave is Lazar's only testable claim, yet we have element 115, and it doesn't match the properties Lazar described at all.
Agree at first look. The video also seems rather delirious.
"we have element 115, and it doesn't match the properties Lazar described at all"
I always heard pro-lazar folks actually claim that it was a point in support of Lazar as the element was later synthesized. Do you have more info on the properties that didn't match?
Agree at first look. The video also seems rather delirious.
"we have element 115, and it doesn't match the properties Lazar described at all"
I always heard pro-lazar folks actually claim that it was a point in support of Lazar as the element was later synthesized. Do you have more info on the properties that didn't match?
Claiming element 115 exists is trivial. Take the currently highest synthesized element (118) and add to it. Predict 119 and you'll likely be right within a few years. Lazar's element 115 was claimed to be stable, i.e. a long half life. Real life element 115 is very unstable. It does not match the properties needed for Lazar's claim as a fuel source. The goalposts for 115 have therefore been shifted to a stable isotope of 115. None have been found so far.
Just some background until more qualified members chime in, but it appears Mr. Storti is a mechanical engineer with a bachlors degree, not a PhD in physics or cosmology or anything like that. The website for his company Delta Group Engineering doesn't list any employees and is not on LinkedIn. If offers a number of "courses" by Storti and a G.S. Diemer with "customer reviews":
Or one can use Delta Group Engineering for their cyber-security needs:
My guess is that he is using Electro-Gravi-Magnetics (EMG) to prove Lazar, but I think he made up EMG:
Recognising that QVE is ElectroMagnetic (EM) in composition, a fundamental relationship between matter, EM-Energy & Gravity is implied. This may be described utilising a mathematical method termed Electro-Gravi-Magnetics (EGM) [9], developed from the application of Standard Engineering Principles, modelling the manner in which matter equilibrates with, & is constrained by, the local QV as a system.
Bottom line is, nothing about Lazar's story as ever checked out and the best this paper seems to do is say the number 7.46 Hz in relation to some sort of gravity wave is correct and Lazar knew about it in 1989. But I'm thinking Storti just started with Lazar's 7.46 and backed into it using his own version of the universe.
According to the below (yet to be peer reviewed) paper, one of Bob's claims regarding the Gravity-B Wave Frequency of 7.46 (Hz) has been shown to be correct?
This paper is unpublishable; no paper that asks its readers to watch a youtube presentation is.
The paper contains no experimental results whatsoever. It is entirely theoretical in nature. Another reason it is unpublishable is that these theories involve aether.
On page 17, the number 415 is picked at random, plugged into some formula, and Lazar's value pops out (almost); one wonders why the author didn't pick 416 as that would have yielded an even better match.
Further down there's some justification as to why 415 was picked, but I found it unreadable.
This looks like numerology, not like physics. And afaik none of that stuff is experimentally verifiable.
A derivation of Cosmological Age explicitly constrained by Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (CMBR) is presented, demonstrating that the correct value of Cosmological Age is equal to The Hubble Age. It is shown that utilizing 'z = 0' for Cosmological Redshift in the Present Epoch, introduces a fundamental flaw into Cosmological Age calculations. However, this flaw is captured & corrected by the Polarizable-Vacuum (PV) Model of Gravity developed by Puthoff et. Al.; suggesting that the Dark Energy Field exists as a Massive Photonic Field. Consequently it is demonstrated that, for a Dark Energy driven description of Accelerated Cosmological Expansion, Cosmological Redshift takes a negative value in the Present Epoch.
His h-index is 4 better than me, but that's not saying much, as I've never published anything. Seems to have worked with one Todd J Desiato, with the same domain name in his email address, a fair few times, I've not yet checked if he has additional connections with the Puthoff cluster too. Edit: Hmmm, lots of self-citation, so that h-index is artificially inflated.
According to the below (yet to be peer reviewed) paper, one of Bob's claims regarding the Gravity-B Wave Frequency of 7.46 (Hz) has been shown to be correct?
After a while you can start to spot possible red flags in things like this "paper", that will make you suspect even without knowing or understanding all the math or theories being discussed.
Just because a paper is listed on Research Gate, doesn't mean it's actually been peer reviewed, or will be peer reviewed. There are lot's journals and RG is just an amalgamator or database for them, regardless of the quality.
On Research Gate, you can click on the author(s) and this should give you their background and institution.
Does the author's background generally match what the subject matter of the paper? Doesn't have to be exact, but if it's a geologist writing a paper about archeology one might give pause. If it's an archeologist is writing about astro-physics, one might really start wondering. Some papers with multiple authors may be from different fields for various reasons. An Archeology paper may include a co-author that is a chemist if a lot of chemistry was used in the study. A relevant expert.
Does the author have the expected level of training/schooling for what's in the paper? There are lot's of self-taught or autodidacts in all kinds of fields. BUT, as things get increasingly technical and complex, there becomes an expected level of learning and hands on training that is often accompanied by higher levels of education or certification.
Does the author appear to come from a legitimate University or institution or actual company that is related to the subject matter of the paper. Is the author from a strange or hard to track down institution with a particular point of view? Like a Christian collage that stresses Biblical literalism. Or an odd company that engages in questionable claims?
Does the author cite themselves excessively?
Does the author cite less rigorous sources excessively, such as YouTube or fringe websites or other fringe people?
Does the author use or reference terms, techniques or terminology that are hard to track down, only found with other fringe ideas or are non-existent?
Does the paper suggest something radically out of line with mainstream understandings of things?
This is not exhaustive or perfect, but it's a start. If we apply these questions to Storti's paper, what do we get?
We find that Storti has a BS in Mechanical Engineering (but not from where), so maybe a bit out of his wheelhouse here.
Storti works at a small engineering firm with no LinkedIn presence, that seems to provide or sell courses on his and some others "teachings" as well as some sort of cyber security test or something. It's a bit suspect.
As noted by Yoshi and FatPhil above, Storti references his own works a lot, and I noticed some of his other citations are for people he frequently collaborates with. So a very narrow field of scope. May be because what he's talking about no one else does.
As Mendal noted above he cites YouTube. Not exactly a reliable source and even when it is, there is probably a better source for whatever was on a YouTube video. At least for a submitted paper.
Without understanding what the hell Storti was talking about, I noticed several technical terms, including "Electro-Gravi-Magnetics (EGM)" which sounded odd. A quick Google search reviled this term ONLY appears in relation to work by Storoti and his colleagues. Sounds like he made it up.
It appears that Storti makes his claims based on his own version of how the universe, though I'm unsure.
The basic claim of the paper is all that math and technobabble is supposed to prove that Bob Lazar is telling the truth. That is, Bob Lazar, after finishing in the bottom 1/3 of his high school class, ended up with an undergrad degree from somewhere and then went on to get advanced degrees from MIT and Cal Tech. While a supposed physicist at Los Alamos he attracted the attention of Edward Teller because of a jet powered car. Teller then recommended Lazar years later to the folks at Area 51 who immediately hired him, told him all about everything to do with aliens and let him reverse engineer one of many captured Flying Saucers. He learned about element 115, incorrectly and predicted element 116 also incorrectly. The MiBs erased all his school and employment records and possible had his work/classmates "hurt". Among other claims.
So, even before some of the smarter people here start looking into that actual math, or lack of, a duffus like me can identify a number of red flags that suggest all that math I can't understand isn't really going to prove what is claimed.
... the only testable scientific claim made by Robert Lazar has been validated, inferring that the entire Lazar story is genuine. The consequences of this are that all non-scientific assertions presented by Lazar credibility assassins, may be discarded en masse.
"The Lore of Robert Lazar", R.C. Storti, October 2023. Not yet published by a peer-reviewed journal. PDF attached.
Verifying a claim made by someone clearly doesn't mean everything else they've said is correct.
(Storti would benefit from allowing review by a "critical friend"; the word should be implying, not inferring.)
This alone,validates the entire Lazar story because ωLazar, until recently, was unknown to Physics; Robert Lazar predicted a scientifically validated principle of QM, many years in advance of Eq. (36, 37), utilising the mathematical precision of Joseph Fourier [28]. In this article, we have established the physical meaningfulness of a key Lazar claim; i.e. a QV property of the Earth at its surface (i.e. it is location specific), which:1) Does not require the existence of Extraterrestrial Spacecraft.2) Does not require the existence of Extraterrestrial Intelligence.3) Does not require the existence of Area-51 or S-4.4) Does not require the existence of Element-115 (Moscovium).
Ibid., my emphasis.
-But anyone even vaguely familiar with Bob Lazar's story might know that his claims (1) do require the existence of extraterrestrial spacecraft, (2) do require the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence, (3) do require the existence of Area-51 /S-4.4 (as a place where extraterrestrial spacecraft were stored and examined), (4) do require the existence of element 115 with properties as stated by Lazar.
So even if Storti's claim is correct- that he has
...validate[d] Robert Lazar's implied 1989 Gravity-B Wave Frequency Claim of 7.46 (Hz)
- he invokes an extraordinary amount of Orwellian doublethink in stating that this
"...validates the entire Lazar story"
inasmuch as he (Storti) lists key claims made by Lazar which Storti says are not required for Lazar's supposed prediction to be correct; that is, Lazar's claims (1-4) are not demonstrated to be true by Storti's results confirming Lazar's "prediction".
It's illogical.
But I think it's genuinely interesting that a small number of people spend a significant amount of time and effort producing this sort of material (lengthy, detailed and, at least superficially, internally consistent work that is, to many of us, pseudoscience) when there is no obvious tangible benefit to themselves.
Bob Lazar, after finishing in the bottom 1/3 of his high school class, ended up with an undergrad degree from somewhere and then went on to get advanced degrees from MIT and Cal Tech.
Wikipedia says otherwise: they state he went to Pierce Jr. College in Los Angeles.
Lazar claims to have obtained master's degrees in physics from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) and in electronics from the California Institute of Technology (Caltech). However, both universities show no record of him.[3][8] Scientists Stanton T. Friedman and Donald R. Prothero have stated that nobody with Lazar's high school performance record would be accepted by either institution.[3][4] Lazar is unable to supply the names of any lecturers or fellow students from his alleged tenures at MIT and Caltech; one supposed Caltech professor, William Duxler, was in fact located at Pierce Junior College and had never taught at Caltech.[3][9] Friedman asserted, "Quite obviously, if one can go to MIT, one doesn't go to Pierce. Lazar was at Pierce at the very same time he was supposedly at MIT more than 2,500 miles away."[3]
3.4 IDENTIFYING A MATHEMATICAL PATTERN
Utilizing Eq. (24), Storti et. al. identify mathematical patterns in [15-17] showing that “Stω”
may be represented in terms of the Proton, Electron and Quark harmonic cut-off frequencies derived
from the respective particle. Poo tentially, three new Leptons (L2, L3, L5 and associated Neutrino’s:
ν2, ν3, ν5) and two new Quark / Boson’s (QB 5 and QB6) are predicted, beyond the SM as shown in
table (3).
Note: although the newly predicted Leptons are within the kinetic range 10 and therefore “should
have been experimentally detected”, there are substantial explanations discussed in Section 5.2
5.2.2 WHY HAVEN’T THE “NEW” PARTICLES BEEN EXPERIMENTALLY DETECTED?
EGM approaches the question of particle existence, not just by mass as in the SM, but by
harmonic cut-off frequency “ ωΩ” ( i.e. by mass and ZPF equilibrium). Storti et. al. showed in [9]
that the bulk of the PV spectral energy 11 at the surface of the Earth exists well above the “THz”
range. Hence, generalizing this result to any mass implies that the harmonic cut-off period 12 “TΩ”
defines the minimum detection interval to confirm (or refute) the existence of the proposed “L2, L3,
L5” Leptons and associated “ν2, ν3, ν5” Neutrinos. In other words, a particle exists for at least the
period specified by “TΩ” - i.e. its minimum lifetime.
Quantum Field Theory (QFT) approaches this question from a highly useful, but extremely
limited perspective compared to the EGM construct. QFT utilizes particle mass to determine the
minimum detection period (in terms of eV) to be designed into experiments. To date, this approach
has been highly successful, but results in the conclusion that no new Leptons exist beyond the SM
in the mass-energy range specified by the proposed Leptons. Whilst QFT is a highly useful
yardstick, it is by no means a definitive benchmark to warrant termination of exploratory
investigations for additional particles.
If you believe Sabine Hossenfelder, or simply keep your eyes open, there's never been any termination of exploratory investigations for additional particles. Colliders have specifically probed all the mass ranges up to the current LHC limits, there's never been a range that's been overlooked. If these hypothesised particles did exist at the well-below-top-quark masses, they would have been found, and they would have broken the standard model.
Unsurprisingly, this paper makes references to the works of Puthoff, his Zero Point Field and his Polarizable Vacuum (ZPF and PV in the quote above). This author seems quite tightly attached to that cluster.
I'd also note that I don't know any respectable publication that would publish a paper in that state, even if it is just conference procedings, it doesn't look properly reviewed. (But note that some of the cosmetic issues may be from my copy-paste from PDF to plain text.)
It's pedantic, but if he's going to be sloppy, I'm going to consider him a sloppy thinker.
Edit: the illogic that follows that segment is *off the scale*, but I don't have the time to disect it presently. To naughtily paraphrase "the truth of an alleged fact proves the origin story about the discovery of that fact". Maybe someone else would like to address that segment properly?
Edit2: Argh - it gets worse! He then goes on (~11mins in) to repeatedly confuse summations of different-frequency fourier components with wave function superposition. The concepts are unrelated. He's neither a mathematician nor a physicist, it's clear.
This paper is unpublishable; no paper that asks its readers to watch a youtube presentation is.
The paper contains no experimental results whatsoever. It is entirely theoretical in nature. Another reason it is unpublishable is that these theories involve aether.
On page 17, the number 415 is picked at random, plugged into some formula, and Lazar's value pops out (almost); one wonders why the author didn't pick 416 as that would have yielded an even better match.
Further down there's some justification as to why 415 was picked, but I found it unreadable.
This looks like numerology, not like physics. And afaik none of that stuff is experimentally verifiable.
The vid kinda goes into the 415 - he's trying to get the average of the positive square wave above 0.999, because that's a magic number. That 415 is the number of harmonics needed to sum to achieve that target. 416 isn't one of the odd harmonics, so it's not relevant to his building of a square wave.
Of course, he's then rectifying that square wave, which means that all his fourier coefficients are no longer relevant. Different functions have different fourier transforms. The constant function has a fourier transform that's a dirac delta function (the infinite variety), non-zero at 0 and zero everywhere else, including N=415. His whole argument collapses. However, if we resurrect it just to kill it more, he's talking about harmonics but I don't see where he got his fundamental frequency from. If he can pull any fundamental frequency out of thin air, he can make some multiple of it equal to his desired target. As you say, this is pure numerology, or, to be less polite but perhaps more accurate, pulling numbers out of his arse.
1) Lazar claims knowledge he could not have arrived at traditionally.
2) That knowledge checks out (using Puthoff physics).
3) Therefore, his claims about how he acquired that knowledge are true.
They can now justify believing in reverse-engineered UFOs without having to find these UFOs.
Anyone can say "but there aren't any crashed UFOs", but only few people can say, "Puthoff-physics are utter bunk". So this gives believers a leg up in online discussions when talking to people who can't tell crackpot physics from the real thing (which tbh is not a useful life skill for most people).
Now, hypothetically Lazar could have come up with this number 8 years ago, using Puthoff physics, and then recently told Storti how he did it. The fact that everyone who practices Puthoff physics also believes in UFOs does not help here. This is up to the reader to judge.
Juicy tidbit:
In historic times, pretty much every great mind (e.g. Thomas Aquinas) knew the Earth is round; this knowledge dates back to ancient Greece and Egypt.
Edit: Sagan said:
Article:
And there was the astronomer Ptolemy, who compiled much of what today is the pseudoscience of astrology. His Earth-centered universe held sway for 1,500 years, showing that intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong.
Ptolemy's cosmology is geocentric, but with a spherical Earth and distant stars.
1) Lazar claims knowledge he could not have arrived at traditionally.
2) That knowledge checks out (using Puthoff physics).
3) Therefore, his claims about how he acquired that knowledge are true.
They can now justify believing in reverse-engineered UFOs without having to find these UFOs.
Anyone can say "but there aren't any crashed UFOs", but only few people can say, "Puthoff-physics are utter bunk". So this gives believers a leg up in online discussions when talking to people who can't tell crackpot physics from the real thing (which tbh is not a useful life skill for most people).
That's basically the illogic I mentioned above, thanks for spelling it out. Fortunately, after seeing the background vid, (2) can be be amended to "2) That knowledge checks out (using Puthoff physics and utterly bogus maths)".
Wikipedia says otherwise: they state he went to Pierce Jr. College in Los Angeles.
Lazar claims to have obtained master's degrees in physics from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) and in electronics from the California Institute of Technology (Caltech). However, both universities show no record of him.[3][8] Scientists Stanton T. Friedman and Donald R. Prothero have stated that nobody with Lazar's high school performance record would be accepted by either institution.[3][4] Lazar is unable to supply the names of any lecturers or fellow students from his alleged tenures at MIT and Caltech; one supposed Caltech professor, William Duxler, was in fact located at Pierce Junior College and had never taught at Caltech.[3][9] Friedman asserted, "Quite obviously, if one can go to MIT, one doesn't go to Pierce. Lazar was at Pierce at the very same time he was supposedly at MIT more than 2,500 miles away."[3]
Technically correct, but I was just trying to quickly sum up Lazar's basic claims. I don't think Lazar ever mentions going to Pierce JC, he instead claimed to have MSs from MIT and Cal Tech. In most cases one cannot get an MS without first getting a BS in something and one cannot get into Cal Tech or MIT after finishing in the bottom 1/3 of their high school class.
Pierce is a Junior College, and in the '70s-'80s in California I believe, a 2-year Associates degree, or a professional vocational certificate of some sort, like in "welding" or "firefighting" would have been the limit of degrees that institution could have conferred. Again, not the kind of prerequisite needed to enter a Masters program at Cal-Tech or MIT. (There has been a push recently to let some JCs offer 4-year bachelor's degrees in some specialized fields with critical shortages, such as "nursing", but not back then to my knowledge.)
Now one can construct a possible scenario, though Lazar never confirms this or suggested it. As someone that also did not finish in the top echelons of high school I attended, Lazar could have done like me and attended the local Junior Collage, Pierce in his case, and instead of working for an AA degree or certificate, just complete the General Education requirements for a chosen 4-year university and then transfer.
Basically, do the general non-specialized course work for a 4-year degree at a very inexpensive 2-year institution that will let anybody in regardless of your high school records. Maintain the required GPA in these courses, and one can then transfer to a California State University or a University of California campus to complete a Bachelor's degree. One still needs to excel to transfer to more prestigious campuses. But that still leaves us at the Bachelor's 4-year degree level, something Lazar would have needed to get into a Masters program at Cal-Tech or MIT, and something he's never mentioned AFAIK.
I can help him out here. It's possible that after being lack luster in high school, he hit his stride while attending Pierce JC and completed his GE requirements and lots of math classes earning a 4.0 and generally being such a fantastic student that he transferred to Cal-Tech. There he also exceled and took so many upper division classes that he earned a BS and an MS at the same time and has just neglected to mention the paltry BS degree. Then he got accepted to MIT where he earned another MS, but oddly didn't go for a PhD.
Then the MiB's came along and scrubbed both MIT and Cal-Tech of any hint that Lazar had ever been there but did leave records that he attended Pierce. When asked to name ANY former professors or classmates, Lazar only mentions a Mr. Duxlar as he taught at Pierce where Lazars records were still intact and therefore the MiBs wont try to kill him to hush up Lazar's claims. Except it appears Lazar said Mr. Duxlar taught at Cal-Tech, which is closer to Pierce JC than MIT.
Or maybe Lazar is just making all this shit up and all of Storti's wild ass math can't change that.
Just passing through this topic whilst at work, so I do not claim to be up to speed with all of the arguments.
However, 7.46Hz rang a bell (electromagnetically ) as it's near the fundamental of 7.83Hz within the range of Schumann resonances.
Ultra low frequency EM signals generated by global lightning propagate ("ring") within a natural Earth waveguide formed between the Earth's surface and the ionosphere.
Last time I was listening down in that range I didn't notice anything odd at 7.46Hz.
God, I think I'm going to have to read the quoted paper at some point. Thankfully, my arse is on the line to get a ton of research data compiled by the end of this week - so that's my excuse not go any further down this particular rabbit hole right now!
Technically correct, but I was just trying to quickly sum up Lazar's basic claims. I don't think Lazar ever mentions going to Pierce JC, he instead claimed to have MSs from MIT and Cal Tech. In most cases one cannot get an MS without first getting a BS in something and one cannot get into Cal Tech or MIT after finishing in the bottom 1/3 of their high school class.
Pierce is a Junior College, and in the '70s-'80s in California I believe, a 2-year Associates degree, or a professional vocational certificate of some sort, like in "welding" or "firefighting" would have been the limit of degrees that institution could have conferred. Again, not the kind of prerequisite needed to enter a Masters program at Cal-Tech or MIT. (There has been a push recently to let some JCs offer 4-year bachelor's degrees in some specialized fields with critical shortages, such as "nursing", but not back then to my knowledge.)
Now one can construct a possible scenario, though Lazar never confirms this or suggested it. As someone that also did not finish in the top echelons of high school I attended, Lazar could have done like me and attended the local Junior Collage, Pierce in his case, and instead of working for an AA degree or certificate, just complete the General Education requirements for a chosen 4-year university and then transfer.
Basically, do the general non-specialized course work for a 4-year degree at a very inexpensive 2-year institution that will let anybody in regardless of your high school records. Maintain the required GPA in these courses, and one can then transfer to a California State University or a University of California campus to complete a Bachelor's degree. One still needs to excel to transfer to more prestigious campuses. But that still leaves us at the Bachelor's 4-year degree level, something Lazar would have needed to get into a Masters program at Cal-Tech or MIT, and something he's never mentioned AFAIK.
I can help him out here. It's possible that after being lack luster in high school, he hit his stride while attending Pierce JC and completed his GE requirements and lots of math classes earning a 4.0 and generally being such a fantastic student that he transferred to Cal-Tech. There he also exceled and took so many upper division classes that he earned a BS and an MS at the same time and has just neglected to mention the paltry BS degree. Then he got accepted to MIT where he earned another MS, but oddly didn't go for a PhD.
Then the MiB's came along and scrubbed both MIT and Cal-Tech of any hint that Lazar had ever been there but did leave records that he attended Pierce. When asked to name ANY former professors or classmates, Lazar only mentions a Mr. Duxlar as he taught at Pierce where Lazars records were still intact and therefore the MiBs wont try to kill him to hush up Lazar's claims. Except it appears Lazar said Mr. Duxlar taught at Cal-Tech, which is closer to Pierce JC than MIT.
Or maybe Lazar is just making all this shit up and all of Storti's wild ass math can't change that.
In the 1993 Ultimate UFO Conference Q&A someone asks him if he went to Pierce and you can tell he's surprised someone knows and cops to it.
QF: Did you go to Pierce College? BL: Yeah, I did. Where did you hear that? QF: A friend that said something, somebody I don’t even know. I just thought, it’s something I want to ask, to clear my mind. BL: Yeah, I went to Pierce and Northridge and then… I’m terrible at dates. I don’t remember what date I was at Pierce, probably like in seventy-six or something I was at Pierce and then seventy-seven or eight I went to Northridge just for a short time for some classes, then I was at Cal-Tech, and then M.I.T. after that.
It was the same interview he named two Pierce Professors when asked to name professors from MIT and Cal Tech:
BL: Oh, sure, I’ve got people that I went to school with, and George Knapp has spoken to some of them and even flew with me up to Los Alamos and spoke to my colleagues there. QF: Could you reveal some of your professors at M.I.T. and Cal-Tech? BL: Yeah, if you want. I don’t have a list of them here. Dr. Duxler I think was one of them. And Hohsfield was another. QF: Hohsfield? BL: Hohsfield. H-O-H-S-F-I-E-L-D, or something along those lines. QF: Would he remember you? BL: Oh, yeah. Hohsfield I know will. QF: These are at M.I.T. or Cal-Tech? BL: Hohsfield was at M.I.T. Duxler was at Cal-Tech.
Just passing through this topic whilst at work, so I do not claim to be up to speed with all of the arguments.
However, 7.46Hz rang a bell (electromagnetically ) as it's near the fundamental of 7.83Hz within the range of Schumann resonances.
Ultra low frequency EM signals generated by global lightning propagate ("ring") within a natural Earth waveguide formed between the Earth's surface and the ionosphere.
Last time I was listening down in that range I didn't notice anything odd at 7.46Hz.
God, I think I'm going to have to read the quoted paper at some point. Thankfully, my arse is on the line to get a ton of research data compiled by the end of this week - so that's my excuse not go any further down this particular rabbit hole right now!
Schumann resonances are the principal background in the part of the electromagnetic spectrum[2] from 3 Hz through 60 Hz,[3] and appear as distinct peaks at extremely low frequencies around 7.83 Hz (fundamental), 14.3, 20.8, 27.3, and 33.8 Hz.[4]
[...]
The lowest-frequency mode has the highest intensity, and the frequency of all modes can vary slightly owing to solar-induced perturbations to the ionosphere (which compress the upper wall of the closed cavity)[citation needed] amongst other factors. The higher resonance modes are spaced at approximately 6.5 Hz intervals (as may be seen by feeding numbers into the formula), a characteristic attributed to the atmosphere's spherical geometry.
[...]
In an ideal cavity, the resonant frequency of the n {\displaystyle n} n-th mode f n {\displaystyle f_{n}} f_{{n}} is determined by the Earth radius a {\displaystyle a} a and the speed of light c {\displaystyle c} c.[14]
Given those sqrt scaling factors (the rest is a constant), the first 4 frequencies should be proportional to 1.41, 2.45, 3.46, 4.47, or scaled to the fundamental 1, 1.73, 2.45, 3.16. (or 1, sqrt(3), sqrt(6), sqrt(10)). Just from eyeballing it you can see that 7.83 : 14.3 is nowhere near the right ratio (which looks like 1 : sqrt(10/3), but that could be numerology).
Just passing through this topic whilst at work, so I do not claim to be up to speed with all of the arguments.
However, 7.46Hz rang a bell (electromagnetically ) as it's near the fundamental of 7.83Hz within the range of Schumann resonances.
Ultra low frequency EM signals generated by global lightning propagate ("ring") within a natural Earth waveguide formed between the Earth's surface and the ionosphere.
Last time I was listening down in that range I didn't notice anything odd at 7.46Hz.
God, I think I'm going to have to read the quoted paper at some point. Thankfully, my arse is on the line to get a ton of research data compiled by the end of this week - so that's my excuse not go any further down this particular rabbit hole right now!
Yeah, it also rang a bell for the author, so he had to make clear the distinction just in case:
Moreover, we also demonstrate that alternative explanations for Lazar’s Gravity-B Wave Frequency Value of 7.46 (Hz), such as the Schumann Effect, are absurd in the extreme:
1) We have mathematically derived Lazar’s 7.46 (Hz) Gravity-B Wave Frequency Claim, to astonishing
precision, utilising Quantised Fourier Harmonics: [link to a YouTube video]
2) The Schumann Effect is not Gravitational, it is Atmospheric; no direct comparison to Lazar’s Claim exists.
3) No known manner exists, to lift many metric tons of any Engineering Material into the air utilising the
Schumann Effect. To assert that Lazar’s Gravity-B Wave Frequency Claim is related to the Schumann Effect of
7.83 (Hz), requires the asserter to provide the mathematical construct proving that it is a valid Engineering
Solution; of course, nobody can provide this because it doesn’t exist.
4) The Schumann Effect is bound by the Ionosphere, which NASA states starts at 48 (km) above the surface of
the Earth, & extends to 965 (km) above the surface of the Earth. So then, how does Extraterrestrial Intelligence
travel to Earth through Space if the Schumann Effect requires an Atmosphere to do it ?
5) The Schumann Effect Fundamental Frequency of 7.83 (Hz), is known to two significant figures. This means
that Lazar’s 7.46 (Hz) Gravity-B Wave Frequency Claim, is completely ‘out of bounds’ with respect to the
Schumann Effect Value, & any relationship between them can be dismissed upon this basis alone.
Yeah, it also rang a bell for the author, so he had to make clear the distinction just in case:
5) The Schumann Effect Fundamental Frequency of 7.83 (Hz), is known to two significant figures. This means
that Lazar’s 7.46 (Hz) Gravity-B Wave Frequency Claim, is completely ‘out of bounds’ with respect to the
Schumann Effect Value, & any relationship between them can be dismissed upon this basis alone.
No scientist would ever compare two values like that. That wouldn't pass any serious peer review. The talk about the significant figures means nothing.
The uncertainty in the values is what allows to compare values and evaluate how much "similar" they are. Schumann resonance is measurable. Lazar's frequency should be measurable to be considered a prediction. And even theoretical values can have an uncertainties if their calculation involves measured quantities.
In the 1993 Ultimate UFO Conference Q&A someone asks him if he went to Pierce and you can tell he's surprised someone knows and cops to it.
QF: Did you go to Pierce College? BL: Yeah, I did. Where did you hear that? QF: A friend that said something, somebody I don’t even know. I just thought, it’s something I want to ask, to clear my mind. BL: Yeah, I went to Pierce and Northridge and then… I’m terrible at dates. I don’t remember what date I was at Pierce, probably like in seventy-six or something I was at Pierce and then seventy-seven or eight I went to Northridge just for a short time for some classes, then I was at Cal-Tech, and then M.I.T. after that.
Interesting. Stanton Freidman, a UFOlogist himself, is usually credited as the person that reveled Lazar attended Pierce JC. So, here he's saying he DID go to Pierce for 1-2.5 years or so, then did "some classes" at Cal State University Northridge then bopped over to CalTech. Things may have been a bit loser in the late '70s, but CalTech has always been a very small school and hard to get into. Currently:
Admission to Caltech is extremely rigorous. Prior to going test blind, Caltech students had some of the highest test scores in the nation.[83] In 2022, Caltech was ranked by CBS News as the 3rd hardest college in America to gain acceptance to.
It only intakes a limited number of students and a "handful" of transfers, which Lazar would have been:
Undergraduate Admissions
Each year, we welcome about 235 new first-year students to the Caltech community, plus a handful of transfer and 3/2 students. With an undergraduate body of just under 1,000, each student plays an active role in our small community of creative problem solvers through their vast STEM potential, unique background, and drive to solve society’s most pressing challenges.
Current enrollment is 2231 students:
901
undergraduate students
1,330
graduate students
The school has been at around that level since it expanded in the late '60s.
His quote also puts him at CalTech in around '78-'79, though as is typical he's fudging the dates. Nevertheless, he would have shown up at CalTech with a couple of years of Junior collage and "some classes" from CSU Northridge under his belt. He needed to complete some sort of Bachelor's degree before moving onto a claimed Masters. Even if he did them simultaneously, which is very doubtful as an R1 Research institution like CalTech would have made him take the GRE and apply to a graduate program, that still has to take a couple of years.
If he spent 2 years getting his BS, then applied and was accepted to the MS program, then spent 1-2 years completing that it was somewhere between 1980 and 1982 before he was done. Then he had to apply and get accepted into a graduate program at MIT, and then another 1-2 years to complete that program. So, he's finishing up an MS at MIT between 1982 at the earliest or more like 1984.
By '81 or '82 Lazar was working at Los Alamos, not as a physicist, but as a tech for a contractor called Kirk-Myer and by 1983 he was running a photo developing company that would result in a bankruptcy filing. I guess if he finished up his MS at MIT in '82 and immediately got hired by Kirk-Myer the timeline might work, but it seems unlikely.
Interesting. Stanton Freidman, a UFOlogist himself, is usually credited as the person that reveled Lazar attended Pierce JC. So, here he's saying he DID go to Pierce for 1-2.5 years or so, then did "some classes" at Cal State University Northridge then bopped over to CalTech. Things may have been a bit loser in the late '70s, but CalTech has always been a very small school and hard to get into. Currently:
Admission to Caltech is extremely rigorous. Prior to going test blind, Caltech students had some of the highest test scores in the nation.[83] In 2022, Caltech was ranked by CBS News as the 3rd hardest college in America to gain acceptance to.
It only intakes a limited number of students and a "handful" of transfers, which Lazar would have been:
Undergraduate Admissions
Each year, we welcome about 235 new first-year students to the Caltech community, plus a handful of transfer and 3/2 students. With an undergraduate body of just under 1,000, each student plays an active role in our small community of creative problem solvers through their vast STEM potential, unique background, and drive to solve society’s most pressing challenges.
Current enrollment is 2231 students:
901
undergraduate students
1,330
graduate students
The school has been at around that level since it expanded in the late '60s.
His quote also puts him at CalTech in around '78-'79, though as is typical he's fudging the dates. Nevertheless, he would have shown up at CalTech with a couple of years of Junior collage and "some classes" from CSU Northridge under his belt. He needed to complete some sort of Bachelor's degree before moving onto a claimed Masters. Even if he did them simultaneously, which is very doubtful as an R1 Research institution like CalTech would have made him take the GRE and apply to a graduate program, that still has to take a couple of years.
If he spent 2 years getting his BS, then applied and was accepted to the MS program, then spent 1-2 years completing that it was somewhere between 1980 and 1982 before he was done. Then he had to apply and get accepted into a graduate program at MIT, and then another 1-2 years to complete that program. So, he's finishing up an MS at MIT between 1982 at the earliest or more like 1984.
By '81 or '82 Lazar was working at Los Alamos, not as a physicist, but as a tech for a contractor called Kirk-Myer and by 1983 he was running a photo developing company that would result in a bankruptcy filing. I guess if he finished up his MS at MIT in '82 and immediately got hired by Kirk-Myer the timeline might work, but it seems unlikely.
Lest we forget, no thesis paper, no one has ever heard of him, can't name one professor, no stories about going out in the local town for happy hour while attending there, not one person on campus remembers him, hasn't demonstrated literally any comprehensive understanding of physics - no equations, no workbooks, no information on the analysis he supposedly did, etc. etc. He's just a liar.
Lest we forget, no thesis paper, no one has ever heard of him, can't name one professor, no stories about going out in the local town for happy hour while attending there, not one person on campus remembers him, hasn't demonstrated literally any comprehensive understanding of physics - no equations, no workbooks, no information on the analysis he supposedly did, etc. etc. He's just a liar.
Yeah, it's almost comical that Jeremy Corbel was with Lazar on The Joe Rogen podcast and countered all that by saying Friedman was just out to get him and the newspaper article about his jet-car PROVES he was a physicist at Los Alamos.
One of the few claims about Lazar that has some evidence was a puff-piece/human interest article that was common in the pre-internet days. Lazar had been neighbors with Eugene Gluhareff in SoCal. Gluhareff had invented a valveless propane powered pulse jet with no moving parts and Lazar had gotten in the newspaper by strapping one to his bike as an 18-year-old:
By the time Lazar was in Los Alamos, he was strapping bigger Gluhareff engines to a tiny Honda Civic and once again getting into the local newspaper.
Here is the relevant line from the article and some BS from Lazar:
This car, a Honda, has a real jet engine in it. And the jet engine can move that car: up to 200 mph.
It’s not the car so much that’s important. To Lazar, a physicist at the Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility, the important thing is the jet engine. It’s something he’s been working on for years. It started “awhile ago” when working with another researcher in NASA on the technology. Lazar modified the original design “and put out more power.”
His first jet powered device was a bicycle, on which he hit 100 mph. “The cops saw that and put a stop to it for fear of safety,” he said.
Note that the 65mph bike is now hitting 100mph. On an old Schwin? More importantly, Corbel makes a big deal out of the article listing Lazar's profession as a "physicist" at Los Alamos. Corbel claims that, as this article was picked up by the wire services the '80s equivalent of going viral, the reporter, Terry England, would have HAD to confirm this fact. Corbel is claiming that for a silly story about a jet powered Civic, England would have gone to the HR department or something at made absolutely sure Lazar was in fact a physicist. Unlikely.
If true, then did England also confirm the little Civic can go 200mph? It's in the article. And it likely could not as further in the article it states the Gluhareff engine made a lot of noise but couldn't get the tiny car moving from a stop.
The jet cannot get the car going from a dead stop, which enables Lazar and his wife, Carol, to demonstrate the engine to reporters. The car was driven (in the usual manner) to the Pueblo High School parking lot Saturday where Lazar started the engine about four times.
Reading this, it seems England never even saw the car move under jet power, he just took Lazars word for it.
In fact there are all kinds of claims in the story that England should have been fact checking but seems to just take Lazar's word for it:
The jet is capable of putting out 1,600 pounds of thrust, (although it has been cut back to 800 pounds for various reasons).
An afterbuner that uses kerosene increases the jet’s efficiency 50 percent, he said.
In tests at a dry lake bed near Los Angeles, the car hit over 200 mph, he said. The standard gasoline engine still works, and is used to get the car going to about 90 mph. The engine is then put into neutral, and the jet engine is kicked in for 30 to 60 seconds.
The Honda isn’t made for high-speed driving. Indeed, the total thrust, slightly above 1600 pounds, is about the same as the car weighs.
“Theoretically, the car should become airborne if the thrust exceeds the weight,” he said. ” If you hit a rock, you’re in trouble. That’s one reason we cut down the thrust.
Corbel actually doubled down on his claim telling Rogan that he spoke to England and England confirmed that he had to fact check the story before it went out on the wires or he would have been blackballed.
Corbell:
I finally got an interview with the guy that wrote that article two weeks ago, so the guy — Terry English [sic] — right. Finally, after all this time, he called me back — three years late you know [unintelligble] put him in the movie — and I said “Look here’s the point, you said Bob Lazar was a physicist at Los Alamos. So how did you base that? You’re writing a paper…” and he goes “yeah,” — and it got picked up by AP news — he goes “if I had misrepresented that he was a physicist at Los Alamos I would have been blackballed by everybody at Los Alamos. They take that very seriously. He was a physicist. I reported it. AP News picked it up, they repeated it. Not word one from anybody saying he wasn’t a physicist at Los Alamos.”
Givin that England likely NEVER saw the car move with jet propulsion, it would appear the only thing he fact checked was Lazar's all important employment status. And remember, it was Knapp that found an old phone directory for Los Alamos that shows Lazar worked there, but as a low level tech employee of Kirk-Myer, so the story is 1/2 true.
England, who must be in his 80s by now thought he probably just took Lazars word for it:
I spoke with Terry England in August of 2021 to confirm the account that Jeremy Corbell gave of their conversation. England did not recall making the statements attributed to him by Corbell.
Author: Did you ever follow up to actually verify his claim that he was a physicist, or did you just take that at face value?
Terry England: I kind of took it at face value. I talked to a lot of guys up there at Los Alamos who were nuclear physicists and I pretty much accepted what they said.
Author: Did you speak to some people to ask if he was a physicist?
England: No. Maybe I should have, but I had no reason to doubt him at the time.
Author: In Jeremy Corbell’s recent documentary, he said that he talked to you and you told him that you had confirmed he was physicist.
England: I don’t remember saying that. It’s possible, but I don’t remember saying that. Because I don’t remember doing it.
Author: He said that you told him if you hadn’t have looked into that you would have been “blackballed” in the community.
On this side of the pond it was called Junkyard Wars. My kids loved it, and while entertaining, I was always a little suspicious that 2 teams that took 2 different approaches to the same challenge always managed to find exactly what they needed in the scrapyard. Hmmmmm...
Reflecting back on Corbel's comments regarding Terry England and Lazar being a physicist, a re-reading makes it appear even more UFOlogical (bold by me):
...and I said “Look here’s the point, you said Bob Lazar was a physicist at Los Alamos. So how did you base that? You’re writing a paper…” and he goes “yeah,” — and it got picked up by AP news — he goes “if I had misrepresented that he was a physicist at Los Alamos I would have been blackballed by everybody at Los Alamos. They take that very seriously. He was a physicist. I reported it. AP News picked it up, they repeated it. Not word one from anybody saying he wasn’t a physicist at Los Alamos.
This is just Corbel quoting what he remembered or claims England told him. Note it says nothing about England fact checking Lazar, just that England felt he was a physicist and no actual physicist at the lab countered that claim. Even if Corbel is quoting him correctly, the gist is it was up to the REAL physicists to call BS on Lazar in a puff piece about his jet car.
As usual, the burden of proof is transferred from the claimant to whomever questions the claim. Kinda like UFOs, if skeptics can't find the EXACT collection of random balloons to create what's on a phone recording of a computer screen, then it's aliens!
For that counter to happen, you either need someone who knows every single physicist there with enough confidence to claim that Lazar is not; or you need someone who knows Lazar. I'm not surprised that there was no counter.
On this side of the pond it was called Junkyard Wars. My kids loved it, and while entertaining, I was always a little suspicious that 2 teams that took 2 different approaches to the same challenge always managed to find exactly what they needed in the scrapyard. Hmmmmm...
Reflecting back on Corbel's comments regarding Terry England and Lazar being a physicist, a re-reading makes it appear even more UFOlogical (bold by me):
...and I said “Look here’s the point, you said Bob Lazar was a physicist at Los Alamos. So how did you base that? You’re writing a paper…” and he goes “yeah,” — and it got picked up by AP news — he goes “if I had misrepresented that he was a physicist at Los Alamos I would have been blackballed by everybody at Los Alamos. They take that very seriously. He was a physicist. I reported it. AP News picked it up, they repeated it. Not word one from anybody saying he wasn’t a physicist at Los Alamos.
This is just Corbel quoting what he remembered or claims England told him. Note it says nothing about England fact checking Lazar, just that England felt he was a physicist and no actual physicist at the lab countered that claim. Even if Corbel is quoting him correctly, the gist is it was up to the REAL physicists to call BS on Lazar in a puff piece about his jet car.
As usual, the burden of proof is transferred from the claimant to whomever questions the claim. Kinda like UFOs, if skeptics can't find the EXACT collection of random balloons to create what's on a phone recording of a computer screen, then it's aliens!
The best is when Corbell tries to defend the fact that Lazar is a scientist whilst debating Stanton Friedman. He cites the jet car about 12 times and ducks the question of where he went to school, where he's published and why he won't have a debate with a real scientist. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZVtTLkftmg
The best is when Corbell tries to defend the fact that Lazar is a scientist whilst debating Stanton Friedman. He cites the jet car about 12 times and ducks the question of where he went to school, where he's published and why he won't have a debate with a real scientist.
I'll have to watch that when I'm letting paint dry Actually if I watch paint dry, I'm accomplishing something. Yeah, Corbel has nothing else to fall back on. He's staked a bit of his credibility on his documentary about Lazar and yet never answers any of the most basic arguments against what he claimed. Friedman is no UFO skeptic, but even he saw through Lazar's stories.
The jet car is just an oddity. The Gluhareff pules engine was supposedly conceived for use on small to personal sized helicopters with the engine mounted to the ends of the rotors*. I'm no physicist or engineer, but the idea that an engine that could not make a '70s era Civic move from a stop could, after the car was traveling 90mph, accelerate it to 200mph seems dubious. Never mind the idea a f a '70s era Civic going that fast.
I have a vague recollection of some Gluhareff's on the end of a spinning rotor gong around and making lots of noise at Burningman one year, but I'd have to search various YouTube videos to find it.
If Corbell's argument was that Lazar's work with jet cars made him some sort of genius or scientist, not only is a weak argument, but it still has nothing to do with Area 51. He's grasping at straws.
* In my early contracting days, I was asked to look an old shop full of tools to see if I wanted any and if I knew what any of it was worth. The story was the owner of the shop was a helicopter pilot that had been killed in a heli-cropdusting accident and his ex-wife now had to deal with all his stuff. It seems he had been working on a backpack helicopter that used, IIRC, Gluhareff engines on the ends of the rotors for power, though I didn't know that at the time.
This was 20ish years ago, but my memory is that there was a backpack one could strap into that had a rotor above one's head and armrests that extended on both sides. The end of the left arm rest had the collective lever, and the right one had the cyclic lever. I don't remember if it had some sort of tail rotor or control for it to work the yaw. The bulk of the backpack was a propane tank to power the Gluhareff's at each end of the rotors.
I'll have to watch that when I'm letting paint dry Actually if I watch paint dry, I'm accomplishing something. Yeah, Corbel has nothing else to fall back on. He's staked a bit of his credibility on his documentary about Lazar and yet never answers any of the most basic arguments against what he claimed. Friedman is no UFO skeptic, but even he saw through Lazar's stories.
The jet car is just an oddity. The Gluhareff pules engine was supposedly conceived for use on small to personal sized helicopters with the engine mounted to the ends of the rotors*. I'm no physicist or engineer, but the idea that an engine that could not make a '70s era Civic move from a stop could, after the car was traveling 90mph, accelerate it to 200mph seems dubious. Never mind the idea a f a '70s era Civic going that fast.
I have a vague recollection of some Gluhareff's on the end of a spinning rotor gong around and making lots of noise at Burningman one year, but I'd have to search various YouTube videos to find it.
If Corbell's argument was that Lazar's work with jet cars made him some sort of genius or scientist, not only is a weak argument, but it still has nothing to do with Area 51. He's grasping at straws.
* In my early contracting days, I was asked to look an old shop full of tools to see if I wanted any and if I knew what any of it was worth. The story was the owner of the shop was a helicopter pilot that had been killed in a heli-cropdusting accident and his ex-wife now had to deal with all his stuff. It seems he had been working on a backpack helicopter that used, IIRC, Gluhareff engines on the ends of the rotors for power, though I didn't know that at the time.
This was 20ish years ago, but my memory is that there was a backpack one could strap into that had a rotor above one's head and armrests that extended on both sides. The end of the left arm rest had the collective lever, and the right one had the cyclic lever. I don't remember if it had some sort of tail rotor or control for it to work the yaw. The bulk of the backpack was a propane tank to power the Gluhareff's at each end of the rotors.
The best part of the Jeremy Corbell documentary - err, Bob Lazar documentary - is the fake FBI raid texts. The official FBI search warrant shows that they were at United Nuclear looking for a substance UN sells that was used in a homicide and, of course, Corbell had to turn it into "they are raiding my business because I know too much about aliens and am doing a documentary about it". Corbell, as I said to Mick on my podcast a year or two ago, has never met an unsubstantiated claim he doesn't love. Clown show.
The best part of the Jeremy Corbell documentary - err, Bob Lazar documentary - is the fake FBI raid texts. The official FBI search warrant shows that they were at United Nuclear looking for a substance UN sells that was used in a homicide and, of course, Corbell had to turn it into "they are raiding my business because I know too much about aliens and am doing a documentary about it". Corbell, as I said to Mick on my podcast a year or two ago, has never met an unsubstantiated claim he doesn't love. Clown show.
In my opinion, Corbell and others with a vested interest in Bob's bullshit, have launched active online campaigns to promote it. The Ufology-related reddit subs definitely experienced an influx in suspicious, pro-Bob accounts. They'd consistently mix in an entirely unrelated claim in an attempt to add legitimately to Bob's. I think eventually the bots shifted to decrying everyone pointing out Bob's BS as a paid shill. If I didn't find the same odd keywords repeating in their comment history, I'd just assume they were real Ufology people, ha.
And remember, it was Knapp that found an old phone directory for Los Alamos that shows Lazar worked there, but as a low level tech employee of Kirk-Myer, so the story is 1/2 true.
One thing I rarely hear people mention is that Knapp definitely knew Bob prior to that expose on the news. Both him, John Lear and a few others were in cahoots for quite a bit prior. Perhaps this is already well known enough that it's not mentioned much, but it was news to me when I first heard it in this awesome little expose.
Back when I first learned of Bob, maybe 20 years ago now as a teenager, I asked on ATS if there was any truth to his claims. I'm pretty sure John Lear replied and said he believed him based on the fact he'd shown him those mysterious lights (which were likely the photon beam thing that Tom Mahood theorized). I can't believe this dude is still around scamming.
Also, there was a clip I found where George is trying to sell the whole, "He totally has 115, but it's buried in stuff and he can't be bothered to find it" thing. But he describes the 115 with a slip that implies it was purchased online. I can't find it, though, but it's funny.
One thing I rarely hear people mention is that Knapp definitely knew Bob prior to that expose on the news. Both him, John Lear and a few others were in cahoots for quite a bit prior. Perhaps this is already well known enough that it's not mentioned much, but it was news to me when I first heard it in this awesome little expose
Maybe. The news story showing Desert Blast 13 was from 1999:
So, this is around 10 years after the Lazar Area 51 story had been out. If Lazar started Desert Blast, it would have been in about 1986. I think claiming that Knapp, Lear and Lazar all knew each other back then is possible, but unknown.
Knapp was interviewing Lear about UFOs in that time frame. Here is a transcript from a 3 part series on Las Vegas TV in '87-'88:
John Lear, a distinguished pilot and ufologist, discusses specific encounters with UFOs in an interview with investigative journalist George Knapp. Lear discusses alleged abductions by UFOs and government coverups of UFO encounters. This is an episode of On The Record, a 30 minute TV show broadcast on KLAS TV in Las Vegas in 1987. First of 3 Parts.
So, they knew each other, at least professionally by '87. Meanwhile Lazar was running a drive through photo shop in Los Alamos by '83 with another one added in '85. But according to his own autobiography, he and his wife were also running brothel in this same time period:
“We were doing well financially. We’d even invested in a legalized brothel in Las Vegas that was taking in $100,000 a month at the time we purchased it for a million dollars. The Honeysuckle Ranch had been in business for more than thirty years, had a solid management team in place, and with Carol doing careful oversight of the operation, we expected the wheels to keep on turning and the money to keep rolling in.
Excerpt From “Dreamland: An Autobiography” by Bob Lazar.
Note the supposed copywrite for this shirt is '84.
The guy at Medium that provided the above book quote claims to have talked to a number of brothel experts that never heard of The Honeysuckle Ranch:
I contacted the relevant government body in each county where brothels were legal in this time period and none had any record of a Honeysuckle Ranch ever having been in operation.
Jan MacKell Collins, author of multiple books that detail the history of brothels in Nevada and other states, responded to my query asking her if she had ever come across a Nevada brothel operating under the name Honeysuckle Ranch.
Her response, “I’ve never heard of the Honeysuckle Ranch”.
Other sources make mention of Lazar and the Ranch:
Both “Omni” Magazine and Timothy Good’s “Alien Contact” reported that Lazar bought at least partial ownership in a legal brothel near Reno in the early 1980s. Good said it was called “The Honeysuckle Ranch”. “Omni” reported the investment was so profitable Lazar didn’t have to return to full-time employment for several years. However such an ownership was not mentioned in Lazar’s bankruptcy papers in 1986. A search of Nevada telephone directories failed to turn up a listing for a “Honeysuckle Ranch”, nor was it listed in the book “The Best Cat Houses in Nevada” by J.R. Schwartz (Obviously an impeccable reference!)
It still remains unclear, but Lazar was convicted with pandering that had something to do with installing cameras at a brothel:
In 1990, Lazar was arrested for aiding and abetting a prostitution ring. This was reduced to felony pandering, to which he pleaded guilty.[58][59][60] He was ordered to do 150 hours of community service, stay away from brothels, and undergo psychotherapy.[59][60]
Along with the brothel tales, there is Lazar's first wife, who used a number of alias, being convicted of 2nd degree murder:
She had been involved with Gary "Lurch" Burkett a member of the Hell's Angles who was also convicted of murder in the same event. A later Hell's Angel, David Burgess, claims to have run the famous Mustang Ranch and his own 'Ol Bridge Ranch. He wrote about his experiances while serving a child porn sentence:
As the former general manager of the world famous Mustang Ranch brothel (10 Years) and a former brothel owner myself, (I owned and operated the Old Bridge Ranch brothel in Mustang Nevada for more then 20 years) I believe my professional opinion on this subject is as close to the truth on the subject as you will ever find.
And wrote about "Lurch", whom Lazar's first wife had been convicted alongside:
This past Saturday night January 7, 2012 my “Homie” and close Hells Angel Brother passed away. His name is “Lurch”. Lurch got in the Club on November 11, 1967 in San Diego.
Exactly what connection Lazar had to any brothel is unclear, but it appears his first wife, after serving time for murder, had hung around with the Hell's Angles and some of the Hell's Angles were very involved in the brothel business. All of which makes Lazar getting any kind of top-secret clearance very difficult.
What is known is that Lazar did have a photo shop (which also shipped UPS and FedEx) in the mid '80s in New Mexico, and whether he had a brothel or part ownership in one, it didn't help him avoid bankruptcy in '86. Lazar simply closed up the photo shop and skipped town:
Greenwood said he first learned of Studio West’s closing when someone called him to pick up his pictures because the shop was going out of business at the end of the day.
After it closed in early April, about two dozen unsent UPS packages and a couple of trays of processed film were found in the store, Greenwood said.
Greenwood said the EDC is collecting money for the processed film. The money will be turned over to Studio West’s creditors, he said. (The Los Alamos Monitor, May 2nd 1986)
This is likely because his soon to be 2nd wife had been arrested for bank fraud:
Following the closure of Studio West, Bob Lazar and Tracy Murk were married in Las Vegas on April 19th, 1986. Notably, Bob was still married to his first wife, Carol, at the time he married Tracy
So, by '86 Lazar is bankrupt, his first wife (and still current) is a convicted murderer and associate of the Hell's Angels and his new wife has just been arrested for bank fraud, so he goes to Las Vegas where he teams with Huff and starts blowing stuff up in the desert. It doesn't get named Desert Blast until 1990, after Lazar has gone public.
The conventional story is that Knapp was to have Lear on as a repeat interview, but as he was busy, he suggests Lazar. It becomes a rating gold mine for Knapp, and he's rode it ever since:
In March 1989, Lear journeyed to the outskirts of "Area 51".[33] Lear introduced journalist George Knapp to UFO whistle-blower Bob Lazar and his tales of Area 51.[17][34] On May 15, 1989, KLAS-TV broadcast a live interview between George Knapp and a man clad in shadow and using the pseudonym "Dennis". The following November, Lazar again appeared, this time unmasked and under his own name.[35]
I would say linking Knapp with Lazar prior to Lear introducing them is pretty speculative. They might have known each other or bumped into one another, but there is no way to say for now.
What is a bit disingenuous about the Knapp TV piece from '99 about Desert Blast, is that by that point he would have been well aware of who was running it. Knapp is riding the Lazar story, or at least what the Lazar story brought him to this day, and yet when he went out to cover Desert Blast, he never mentions that his benefactor is running it.
I was always under the impression that most of the ranches he took part in were illegal and on the hush. I believe he was alleged to have installed cameras in the rooms facing the johns with his known pandering attempts. Perhaps he just cleaned up the story and was "legal" for appearance. You never know with ol' Bob.
I would say linking Knapp with Lazar prior to Lear introducing them is pretty speculative. They might have known each other or bumped into one another, but there is no way to say for now.
Hmm, I think I misremembered it as I watched it a a while ago. Checking back, agree with your analysis. I agree it's weird to not acknowledge that it's Bobs show by '99, too.
The conventional story is that Knapp was to have Lear on as a repeat interview, but as he was busy, he suggests Lazar. It becomes a rating gold mine for Knapp, and he's rode it ever since:
I think it was a different person entirely who allegedly bailed. George called up John and said, "Do you have anybody to fill in?" and then "Dennis" was the result. I think they recorded that anonymous interview in Lear's driveway, plus the rest of them right after. A while after, George was taken up to Area 51 and shown the flying lights.
Interesting to note:
March 1989: According to Good’s account, RL began initial interviews with George Knapp. (1)Per the Lindemann interview, they were done for “safekeeping” (2). Curiously, in a radio interview with Chuck Harder on the “For The People” show on November 17, 1989, George Knapp stated John Lear didn’t introduce him to RL until May, 1989. link
@Area 51/50, a bit of "how to" for the forum. When you want to quote another member's post, there are a couple of ways. First you can just hit the "Reply" button in the lower right hand screen. This will put the entire post from the other member into you post. You can leave it like that or delete parts you're not responding too:
Or, you can highlight a part of someone's post and that will usually bring up the "Reply" option like this:
Once you click on it, the relevant part of the person's post will show up in your post as something you're replying to, like this:
I was always under the impression that the ranches he took part in were illegal and on the hush. I believe he was alleged to have installed cameras in the rooms facing the johns.
Who knows. It appears when people called Lazar on the non-existence of The Honeysuckle Ranch, the idea that it was less than legal got floated. Kinda like the MiBs erased all his school records.
His first wife Carol appears to have had a rough upbringing, an ongoing issue with methamphetamine use, and an association with the Hell's Angles.
In the late '60s through the '90s, prostitution, including some legal and not so legal operations in Nevada, and methamphetamine was the bread and butter of the Hell's Angles. So, it may be that through Carol's connections to the Hell's Angles, Lazar got involved, or thought about getting involved, with a brothel, legal or otherwise. IF it ever panned out, he would have been fooling around with the Hell's Angles which seems a bit out of Lazar's wheelhouse. He was a BSer, but the Hell's Angles are not people to BS.
