Debunked: Monsanto's Aluminum Resistant GMOs and Chemtrails

[Mr.B]

what makes any of you think, that any evidence will be giving to anyone?

According to that link to the original legislation:

(a) Prohibited activities
The Secretary of Defense may not conduct (directly or by contract)—
(1) any test or experiment involving the use of a chemical agent or biological agent on a civilian population; or
(2) any other testing of a chemical agent or biological agent on human subjects.

(my emphasis by underlining, bold & Italic)

Seems to me you might have misread that bit - it is very clear that the SecDef CANNOT contract out of this legislation.

Seems to me that you are someone who obeys the speed limit at all times? Is this correct ?

Please do not be naive.

Direct contract - NO.

Are there no sub contracts in the world? Indirect ways to get around legislation?
Hell even I have offshore accounts that I do not need to pay taxes on.
Is the world SOOOOO honest that everything is legit within all activities that can not be worked around?

 

[Mr.B]

This is a bit off-topic, but your entire premise seems to be based on the idea that normal contrails can't persist for more than 20 minutes. That has been known to be false at least as far back as WW2 when bombers encountered their own contrails while returning from bombing runs over Germany. So, since that basic premise is wrong, it would seem that your conclusions should be re-evaluated.

I never claimed that contrails can not persist for more time that I have stated.
I merely mentioned, that with my observation, with my family, with my cameras, the normal contrails are usually gone by that time.
Maybe it has to do with my climate, I'm in Southern Florida.

 

[MikeC]

Seems to me that you are someone who obeys the speed limit at all times? Is this correct ?

Please do not be naive.

Direct contract - NO.

it doesn't say "direct contract" - it says "directly or by contract"

Are there no sub contracts in the world? Indirect ways to get around legislation?
Hell even I have offshore accounts that I do not need to pay taxes on.
Is the world SOOOOO honest that everything is legit within all activities that can not be worked around?

Of course tetworld is not an honest place - but your point was that there was a "loophole" for doing such experiments by sub-contract - and I don't ee that.

Could they do them illegally? Sure - anyone could - it doesn't require a loophole in the aw to do something illegally!!

The point of the law is that if they do it AT ALL then it is ILLEGAL - if you find any actual evidence of them breaking the law you get to publicise the evidence, give it to the law enforcement agencies, sue, and perhaps even bring down the President - you could be famous - so let's have the evidence - why keep it hidden??

I think you missed the point of your own post!

 

[MikeC]

I never claimed that contrails can not persist for more time that I have stated.
I merely mentioned, that with my observation, with my family, with my cameras, the normal contrails are usually gone by that time.
Maybe it has to do with my climate, I'm in Southern Florida.

Indeed most contrails appear to not last long.

But the few that do are still contrails.

 

[Hama Neggs]

I never claimed that contrails can not persist for more time that I have stated.
I merely mentioned, that with my observation, with my family, with my cameras, the normal contrails are usually gone by that time.
Maybe it has to do with my climate, I'm in Southern Florida.

Now it's just "usually"? You seemed pretty sure about what you think constitutes "true contrails".

Quote you: "I am not at all denying that there ARE true contrails, I see them all the time with my kids, and we can see where the planes can cause them, and then they dissipate after 20 mins or so, sometimes less."

If you don't judge what is a "true contrail" by this "20 minutes or so" criterion, then why did you bring it up? So, discounting that, what factors DO you use to decide what is a "chemtrail"?

I'm pretty sure you haven't been very observant and that contrails can and do sometimes last longer than 20 minutes over southern Florida.

 

[Mr.B]

Do you have any response to all of the evidence presented on contrailscience and here that contrails can persist for hours, and have been observed to do so for as long as there's been high-altitude air travel?

I am not, debating all the time and effort, that Mr. West has put into his website. It is a very well put together website, with no bad links up to this point that I have noticed. I will admit, I have not gone through all of it, and I probably will not.

Are you debating that geoengineering is false ?

The term "chemtrail" yes, that is false. Aerosols in geoengineering, not so much. The problem is all of you want public evidence, which may or may not come to light. I have sent out a few Freedom of Information Act requests over that past 4 years. Not all requests need to be responded, not all requests have answers.
I can prove I have sent them, the DoD or HLS and others do not need to prove that they received them. All I can do is keep searching. And even then, the materials I have requested may have black outs and omissions to protect other entities within the scope of their involvement if I ever do receive any information. At which point, it will not be put into a post on a forum until I can verify all of it.
Goodnight for now, may contrails continue and the world is flat.

 

[WeedWhacker]

I await your rebuttal, and please use the correct term : geoengineering

This is the "tagline" from your very long post. It would be counter-productive to attempt to address all of you assertions, but suffice to say that "No", there are no active nor on-going "geo-engineering" projects being conducted in the atmosphere of this planet....not by any government nor military entity.

The term (and nascent science) of "geo-engineering" covers a multitude of methods, and most are actually ground-based.

Also, the term itself is fraught with confusion. As you can see in the way that Wikipedia handles their article entries:
Wiki on "geoengineering"

In the above article is a link to a (Wiki) entry on "CLIMATE engineering", which is more precise....although Wiki also does mention it is "aka" *geoengineering*.

Note this excerpted passage:

There are no known large-scale climate engineering projects except one conducted outside the scientific mainstream by Russ George. Almost all research has consisted of computer modelling or laboratory tests, and attempts to move to real-world experimentation have proved controversial. Some limited tree planting and cool roof projects are already underway. Ocean iron fertilization has been given small-scale research trials. Field research into sulfur aerosols has also started.[15]

Voices of caution against viewing geoengineered interventions as a simple solution to climate change are largely due to the risks and partially unknown side-effects of the technologies in question.

(My bold emphasis). The citation referenced to '[15]' sounds intriguing, but here it is:

Izrael, Y. A.; Zakharov, V. M.; Petrov, N. N.; Ryaboshapko, A. G.; Ivanov, V. N.; Savchenko, A. V.; Andreev, Y. V.; Puzov, Y. A.; Danelyan, B. G.; Kulyapin, V. P. (2009). "Field experiment on studying solar radiation passing through aerosol layers". Russian Meteorology and Hydrology 34(5): 265. doi:10.3103/S106837390905001X

I would suggest a large dose of "salt" be on hand when viewing many of those websites that you cited. Take some time to properly assess and evaluate their claims.

You may find that many of them operate in the realm of unnecessary 'fear' and 'scare tactics', combined with a larger measure of hyperbole (and yes, some outright lies...or, perhaps more politely, 'misconceptions').

 

[Hama Neggs]

what makes any of you think, that any evidence will be giving to anyone?

You seem to be admitting that there is no evidence and maybe even that none is possible to find. Given that, what makes you come to the conclusion that geoengineering exists as an ongoing program?

 

[Efftup]

and you still haven't answered what the hell this has to do with Aluminium.

 

[KC-10FE]

I never claimed that contrails can not persist for more time that I have stated.
I merely mentioned, that with my observation, with my family, with my cameras, the normal contrails are usually gone by that time.
Maybe it has to do with my climate, I'm in Southern Florida.

You do realize that the temperature on the ground is quite different than the temperature at altitude, right? I have had chemtrail believers tell me they live near Phoenix AZ and still see contrails at altitude, and claim that it is not possible because of the high temperatures in that region. I have spent a few thousand hours flying over Iraq, Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Afghanistan, and at 35,000 the air STILL will be around -20 Celsius. This is because of the temperature lapse rate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapse_rate

The lapse rate is defined as the rate at which atmospheric temperature decreases with increase in altitude. In the lower regions of the atmosphere (up to altitudes of approximately 12,000 metres (39,000 ft), temperature decreases with altitude at a fairly uniform rate. Because the atmosphere is warmed by convection from Earth's surface, this lapse or reduction in temperature is normal with increasing distance from the conductive source.

So just because when you step outside and the temperature happens to be high, doesn't mean that it is the same at altitude.

 

[Filleppi]

I don't think that there's any evidence of anyone spraying aluminum.

And it will not make a difference. Sure I would not want to sprinkle it on my food, but I would not want to sprinkle soil on my food either. Sprinkling a bit of aluminum oxide on soil will have about the same effect as sprinkling some soil on soil. The soil is ALREADY 8% aluminum, and it is not the amount of aluminum that the problem, it's the acid.

Weatherman 'normalising' aluminium being sprayed over the entire USA
http://philsreport.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=aluminium

 

[Mick West]

Weatherman 'normalising' aluminium being sprayed over the entire USA
http://philsreport.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=aluminium

That's just a report about chaff interfering with weather radar. It's pretty rare, and only in a few areas.

 

[WeedWhacker]

Weatherman 'normalising' aluminium being sprayed over the entire USA
http://philsreport.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=aluminium

Yup, sorry. This is hyperbole. Would you like a point-by-point refutation of that video? It could be done, very easily.

EDIT) I will start with this simple fact: The pure TONNAGE necessary to "spray aluminium" into the sky would FAR EXCEED the weight of even the largest airplane, in terms of total weight, that exists today.

 

[Dan Wilson]

Are you debating that geoengineering is false ?

But none of your sources say that geoengineering is actually happening. You can assume that groups are doing it in secret and that's all well and good but it's just an assumption (a baseless one, at that). Not something to present as truth. I mean, some group doing it in secret using commercial jets as their means of spraying doesn't really make sense.

http://news.sciencemag.org/2010/01/bill-gates-funding-geoengineering-research

But Gates's money has not funded any field experiments involving the techniques, according to Ken Caldeira of the Carnegie Institution for Science in Palo Alto, California.

http://www.aaas.org/news/experts-aa...roversial-geoengineering-ideas-cooling-planet

It remains unclear whether a global effort on climate engineering will ever occur.

what makes any of you think, that any evidence will be giving to anyone?

Evidence doesn't need to be given, evidence of large-scale secret geoengineering projects can be found by normal people with a bit of curiosity. None has been found, though.

 

[KC-10FE]

Weatherman 'normalising' aluminium being sprayed over the entire USA
http://philsreport.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=aluminium

I am not sure what the obsession with chaff has been lately with the chemtrail community. I worked F15C's for 6 years, and chaff and flares were loaded daily for the sorties; they are countermeasures for radar and heat seeking missiles respectively. The canisters are very small, certainly not enough to "cover the sky" as the chemtrail community claims. They are not even made of solid aluminum.


http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/systems/chaff.htm

Here is a picture of the chaff and flare canisters on a fighter aircraft, certainly not enough to "blanket the sky".

The chaff itself:

Chaff being dispensed…notice the minuscule amount

Last but not least, a video of an A-10 weapons load involving chaff and flare

 

[JDubyah]

I am not sure what the obsession with chaff has been lately with the chemtrail community. I worked F15C's for 6 years, and chaff and flares were loaded daily for the sorties; they are countermeasures for radar and heat seeking missiles respectively. The canisters are very small, certainly not enough to "cover the sky" as the chemtrail community claims. They are not even made of solid aluminum.

From what I can tell, the chaff obsession is about being able to state, "You don't believe they're spraying? You don't think planes are spraying aluminum? Well there's definitive proof! Military planes spray chaff! There's aluminum in chaff! Therefore, chemtrails surely must be possible."

 

[KC-10FE]

From what I can tell, the chaff obsession is about being able to state, "You don't believe they're spraying? You don't think planes are spraying aluminum? Well there's definitive proof! Military planes spray chaff! There's aluminum in chaff! Therefore, chemtrails surely must be possible."

So true. The fact that chaff just so happens to have aluminum in it and the fact that the military uses it, is wonderfully convenient for the chemtrail community to bolster their "they are spraying us with aluminum" claim, since their allegations that the aluminum is somehow being added to jet fuel is far less believable. (Or logical for that matter, since aluminum introduced to the thousands of moving parts of a hot jet engine would destroy it in no time, but don't let that fact get in the way of the chemtrail community screaming it to high heavens).

 

[Mick West]

Kristen Meghan also like to point out that chaff is made of silica fibers (fiberglass) coated with aluminum. And that silica is considered an inhalation hazard, and hence she views chaff as some kind of environmental problem.

https://www.facebook.com/Sugarfrees...comment_id=6928863&offset=0&total_comments=20

Kristen Meghan I deleted Jeff, I don't care if someone is a pilot, it doesn't make them an SME in my field. I like how he admit military chaff but said it has a mission...well newsflash chaff is the spraying of alluminum and silica. Silica causes silacosis and cancer, while alluminum causes cns and respiratory issues. So how completely ignorant does it sound to say it's ok that we spray chaff but climate engineering is just a BS lie. Smh lol

 

[KC-10FE]

Kristen Meghan also like to point out that chaff is made of silica fibers (fiberglass) coated with aluminum. And that silica is considered an inhalation hazard, and hence she views chaff as some kind of environmental problem.

https://www.facebook.com/Sugarfrees...comment_id=6928863&offset=0&total_comments=20

Kristen Meghan I deleted Jeff, I don't care if someone is a pilot, it doesn't make them an SME in my field. I like how he admit military chaff but said it has a mission...well newsflash chaff is the spraying of alluminum and silica. Silica causes silacosis and cancer, while alluminum causes cns and respiratory issues. So how completely ignorant does it sound to say it's ok that we spray chaff but climate engineering is just a BS lie. Smh lol

I would have at ask Kristen how MUCH chaff she believes is being dispensed into the air. As shown in my post above (#175) it shows how small these canisters are; used to confuse a radar guided missile such as the AIM120D AMRAAM. They are definitely not big enough to dispense enough chaff to cover the sky and block the sun. (or even used for that reason) I'd have to ask her how she views this as a greater threat of pollution as opposed to ground based sources such as factories/traffic.

 

[Strawman]

Can we even say chaff is being sprayed? Dispersed, yes, but it seems to be so, hmm, "solid" (for lack of a better word) to be sprayed. But then, I'm neither a chemist, nor a native speaker.

 

[Efftup]

What I also find interesting is that WHAT they are supposedly spraying has not changed (it is always claimed to be barium and Aluminium, although Strontium is sometimes added) and yet, WHY they are spraying has gone through everythign from To poison us for depopulation, block out Nibiru's approach, mind control, and Geo Engineering.

i think it was this thread where I looked up ALL known Cloud seeding, proposed Geoengineering AND mind control methods and found NO mention of ALuminium in ANY of them.

So I can only conlclude we are still being sprayed with chemtrails to not hide at all well hide a non existent planet that DIDn't actually wipe us all out about 18 months ago.

This NWO, eh? Such characters!!!

 

[Ross Marsden]

I think chaff is doing in this context what chaff is supposed to do in any situation; distract and confuse.

 

[KC-10FE]

Can we even say chaff is being sprayed? Dispersed, yes, but it seems to be so, hmm, "solid" (for lack of a better word) to be sprayed. But then, I'm neither a chemist, nor a native speaker.

I think "sprayed" is the word they want to use, when in fact chaff is dispensed from the chaff dispensers on the fighter jet in small amounts, and definitely not nearly enough to cover the sky.

 

[MikeC]

Kristen Meghan also like to point out that chaff is made of silica fibers (fiberglass) coated with aluminum. And that silica is considered an inhalation hazard, and hence she views chaff as some kind of environmental problem.

Perhaps she's never lived in the desert or been to a beach or handled glass tableware??

 

[Strawman]

I think "sprayed" is the word they want to use, when in fact chaff is dispensed from the chaff dispensers on the fighter jet in small amounts, and definitely not nearly enough to cover the sky.

That's basically what I thought. You can spray gas, fluids or powders. But if you take one look at chaff, it's clear it's not being sprayed.

 

[cloudspotter]

What I also find interesting is that WHAT they are supposedly spraying has not changed (it is always claimed to be barium and Aluminium, although Strontium is sometimes added) and yet, WHY they are spraying has gone through everythign from To poison us for depopulation, block out Nibiru's approach, mind control, and Geo Engineering.

i think it was this thread where I looked up ALL known Cloud seeding, proposed Geoengineering AND mind control methods and found NO mention of ALuminium in ANY of them.

So I can only conlclude we are still being sprayed with chemtrails to not hide at all well hide a non existent planet that DIDn't actually wipe us all out about 18 months ago.

This NWO, eh? Such characters!!!

There's this one that keeps getting dragged up http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US5003186

 

[Efftup]

Well done, you managed to find one. I don't know how I missed that one, I did look through most of the patents people keep referencing.

 

[cloudspotter]

Well done, you managed to find one. I don't know how I missed that one, I did look through most of the patents people keep referencing.

No mention of Strontium or Barium of course

 

[Efftup]

I found that mentioned shooting a Barium rocket into the upper atmosphere for measuring ions distribution or something. Not quite sure why it was listed in a Chemtrail sites Geonengineering patents page.

Well actually I am, it;s to pile on more "circumstantial evidence" as alleged prof of chemtrailing

 

[cloudspotter]

I found that mentioned shooting a Barium rocket into the upper atmosphere for measuring ions distribution or something. Not quite sure why it was listed in a Chemtrail sites Geonengineering patents page.

Well actually I am, it;s to pile on more "circumstantial evidence" as alleged prof of chemtrailing

One of the patents I've seen is for an electric water heater. At least the chem-pilots can have a nice hot cup of tea.

 

[Efftup]

um.. what? really? they provide a huge list of "Geo engineering" patents as proof of geo engineering going and then just pad it out with anything, as they are sure people won't bother to go through them all?

 

[Mick West]

um.. what? really? they provide a huge list of "Geo engineering" patents as proof of geo engineering going and then just pad it out with anything, as they are sure people won't bother to go through them all?

@MikeC went though a lot of them here:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/chemtrail-geoengineering-patent.295/

I discuss the broader topic of patents here:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...neering-existence-operability-or-intent.3704/

 

[Mick West]

Discusson on trust split to:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/trust-in-mainstream-media-and-science.4384/

 

[Leifer]

As a gardener, I've noticed aluminum used in-and-around soil for horticulture, professional and amateur.

Here's a few typical instances where this is the case.....

Aluminum "plant tags":
....these aluminum "write/emboss" identification tags are the standard for most professional, public gardens, schools, and private specimen nurseries. They are aluminum sheet, and usually hang near the lowest area possible, above the roots.
I cannot find a problem with this tagging method, except for a few instances of tagging sensetive tropical specimens, which are indeed sensetive to extra AL.

Propagation "hold-downs":
.....these are simply thick aluminum wire, bent to make prostate type plants grow roots by holding them to the soil surface.

Bonsai:
....thick aluminum wire used to create miniature trees, by wrapping the mini-branches and forming them into a desired shape.

ammendment:
Aluminum Sulfate can be found at any good garden shop, and is sometimes used in commercial agriculture to lower a high PH.