Charlie Hebdo Conspiracy Theories - Ignore or Address?

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Sgt.Tinfoil said:
Well to be honest now the situation is that there has been other group(a man and a female) taken hostages and demanding police to end surrounding the allegaded terrorists I would call that there is some tought put on this plan.
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What sort of thought though? What strategy to this do you see other than causing chaos and being on the run?

External Quote:
A municipal police officer, Clarissa Jean-Philippe, 25, was shot and killed in Montrouge, a southern suburb of Paris, on 8 January. An unnamed street sweeper was also severely wounded in the attack. Press sources have stated that the suspect is from the same jihadist group as those who carried out the Charlie Hebdo attack, and French police have said there is a "connection" between them.
....
Also on 9 January, an armed gunman, speculated to be Amedy Coulibaly, 32, attacked a Hypercacher koshersupermarket at Porte de Vincennes, east Paris, taking at least five hostages and reportedly killing at least four people.[119][65] He has a female accomplice, speculated to be Hayat Boumeddiene, 26.[120] It was later confirmed that Coulibaly was the gunman of Montrouge.[121]

At approximately 17:15, explosions and gunfire were heard at both the Dammartin-en-Goële and Porte de Vincennes locations.[65]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shooting#Related_hostage_takings_and_sieges
ETA:

External Quote:

- Police storm building containing men suspected of Charlie Hebdo massacre
- Brothers Said and Cherif Kouachi killed, hostage reportedly freed
- Hostage-taker also killed in assault on Paris supermarket, police say
- Four hostages killed, police say, others seen coming out afterwards
http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-30722098
 
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Pete Tar said:
What sort of thought though? What strategy to this do you see other than causing chaos and being on the run?
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It still looks to me a lot like a martyrdom plot. Usually the major intent of those is to incite anti-Islamic sentiments and provoke a population into marginalizing or victimizing Muslims in general, because disaffected citizens are easier to recruit than comfortable and equal ones. This is why Australia's #illridewithyou response was so amazing, they didn't take the bait at all.

I doubt the hostage takers expect to actually have those demands met, but to create a situation where, when others are trying to recruit those disaffected Muslims, they can paint the police as the aggressors.

Having a plan doesn't mean they intend to get away. Also, having coordination doesn't mean they have a plan. A plan as simple as "split into two groups, seek targets of opportunity, and instigate a second incident if police close in on one group," could cover what they've done. No more precise planning than you'd expect for a trip to McDonalds.
 
cloudspotter said:
When were they reported shot and captured?
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I think NBC first reported that the original gunmen had been shot, and then over the course of the night they rolled that reporting back. By the time Maddow came on the report was pointing out that they had been mistaken and that the gunmen were still on the loose.

It was much the same as with the Boston scene, with reports coming out that were pure speculation, and which led to an innocent individual having a horrendous time.

The quest to have the news first leads to some really shoddy reporting. "Feck it, we might be wrong but we'll be first. Apologize later" kind of attitude.
 
Let me tell you @Mick West it is worth addressing! Young people especially are highly impressionable. Not long ago when I was in High School, I remember how this kind of bunk darkened the minds of quite a few great and talented kids I knew and grew up with. I remember seeing my friend Darrien go from being a talented musician to sitting in his basement all day after school reading page after page article after article of conspiracy posts and forums. Eventually he contemplated dropping out of school too. We talked and I helped him to reason and understand that believing all of those sites and claims aren't what they seem. Thankfully he ended up talking to a teacher as well who was very knowledgeable about this kind of thing and was able to open his mind up a bit. Today he's back to making music thankfully :)

I remember the 2012 doomsday lies and bunk like they were yesterday, some kids committed suicide over it... I was quick to contribute with other people to debunk those lies and fear. I was in second grade when 9/11 happened and even at that young age I remember the conspiracy theories being thrown around like baseballs not long after! Man, when I first ran into the big crazy world of bunk myself on the net at 16, It was overwhelming! Website after website, video after video, I was genuinely scared. However through a questioning attitude and research I realized there is always someone trying to spread crap either for fun or simply because they don't know better... Or because they have an agenda, like a book or website to sell. As I jumped to the net for answers I found their were many people that wanted to correct this misinformation and learn too like you guys. (It was somewhere around 2010 I think when I found this site? Took me forever to join though LOL) But this site and similar ones helped me learn, contribute and to send great info to people who were also curious.

The sad thing is so many young people aren't able to step back and ask questions. It sucks them into a life of fear and paranoia looking at a computer screen all day. Now at 22 I know a hell of a lot more now and its helped me to answer questions my 16 year old brother asked me when he run into it all too. This has become one of my favorite sites for that reason. Along the way I've learned some pretty cool stuff too! It makes a difference I'll tell you that. Knowledge is power, and satisfaction of learning something new or helping to inform someone who's stuck in a cyclone of bunk is priceless. Thanks for contributing to you and everyone else that does too!
 
derrick06 said:
The sad thing is so many young people aren't able to step back and ask questions. It sucks them into a life of fear and paranoia looking at a computer screen all day. Now at 22 I know a hell of a lot more now and its helped me to answer questions my 16 year old brother asked me when he run into it all too. This has become one of my favorite sites for that reason. Along the way I've learned some pretty cool stuff too! It makes a difference I'll tell you that. Knowledge is power, and satisfaction of learning something new or helping to inform someone who's stuck in a cyclone of bunk is priceless.
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I was talking to a French Canadian journalist this morning, about these conspiracy theories, and I told him that the majority of believers were young, under 25, and even more under 20. Most of the people online who are instantly posting about "false flags" are young people, immature adolescents. Most of them will grow out of it, but some will get stuck for longer than other, and it can ruin their lives.

I want people to grow out it quicker, and for less people to get stuck.
 
Mick West said:
I was talking to a French Canadian journalist this morning, about these conspiracy theories, and I told him that the majority of believers were young, under 25, and even more under 20. Most of the people online who are instantly posting about "false flags" are young people, immature adolescents.
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I hope this is not too off-topic, but is this a generational thing? Im 42 and didn't see the internet until I was 24, completely after my first set of education. Now, when training soldiers, their near-entire existence is internet based, and the first port of call for sourcing information.

If in 21st Century first world the internet is the go-to place to know stuff, is it any wonder that they accept bunk as reality without to much scrutiny or life experience to fall back on?
 
Mick West said:
I was talking to a French Canadian journalist this morning, about these conspiracy theories, and I told him that the majority of believers were young, under 25, and even more under 20. Most of the people online who are instantly posting about "false flags" are young people, immature adolescents. Most of them will grow out of it, but some will get stuck for longer than other, and it can ruin their lives.

I want people to grow out it quicker, and for less people to get stuck.
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The people I see on Chemtrails Global Skywatch and the other chemtrail forums also include many older people. I wonder if chemtrails is a hoax that spans the ages, because I agree about other Cts.
 
Police Chief Helric Fredou now dead of apparent suicide according to CTs. I don't see anything on western media yet, but Googled it and there are some French publications reporting it.

And of course, CTs are using it to further their narrative...(he was murdered because he knew too much)
 
Thank you, Mick. I'd run across these people evoking the "false flag" examples and it sickened me and made me angry. I wondered how I could bring this up to people I know and how to phrase it. This post by you says it all.

My own thoughts were that these conspiracy theorists live in a world of pure fantasy, that they revel in it, that it gives them purpose and makes them feel important. Nevermind the victims' families or the evidence, because everything is an act, a play, a bit of theatre for the masses. I wonder if they believe their own rants or if they just have no moral compass to tell themselves what's right or wrong; that play time is over. In the same line of thinking, they simply act like little children, with their toys being the realities of the world, or rather their warped egos and inane malfeasance.

Thank you for the post. I look forward to seeing more.
 
Veritie said:
Police Chief Helric Fredou now dead of apparent suicide according to CTs. I don't see anything on western media yet, but Googled it and there are some French publications reporting it.
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*groan*
While I can't of course assure there is no link, french police isn't a very relaxed workplace ; there has been problems with suicide before, for years. (I'll to find a link on that)
Hell, it could very well be that the sudden intense pressure pushed an already fragile person over the edge.
 
Mick West said:
Only one ID was found.

Surely you can think of several reasons why they might have had ID besides a massive worldwide conspiracy?
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my first thought was that would be a fake ID planted to deceive police

BombDr said:
Does this appear to you so far that this was a brilliantly thought out and executed plan?
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now absolutely not, but to kill 11 people and get out of Paris all during a rush hour certainly required some planning

maybe they changed the plan when they saw their ID on TV and realised they had screwed it
 
Stevan Gvozdenovic said:
now absolutely not, but to kill 11 people and get out of Paris all during a rush hour certainly required some planning
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The problem is some are using 'planned' to imply secret-agent special-op level planning above the basic organising you'd expect for people doing something like this.
So yes of course it was planned, but nothing indicates anything beyond what determined and violent zealots are capable of, and there's no reason to imply otherwise as some want to do.
 
Stevan Gvozdenovic said:
now absolutely not, but to kill 11 people and get out of Paris all during a rush hour certainly required some planning
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It was 1130 in the morning, and these lads were locals, and I'll go out on a limb and assert they probably had quite a good knowledge of Paris.

Whilst I agree Paris is a particularly frustrating city to drive in, this attack was definitely amateur hour. Shooting at unarmed or side-armed people with assault rifles is not hard and simply buying all the gear does not make them soldiers. Even though 'experts' in 24hr news studios are brought in to fill the gaps with vapid verbiage, they are mostly talking crap. Sam Kylie on Sky spoke of how 'professional' they looked from the 10 seconds of film they saw, but any Lance Corporal at Junior Brecon (British Army Infantry NCO School) will tell you that no pairs fire-and-manouvre drill would include turning your back against the threat, which they did when getting back into the car.

The next point about this 'professional' assault is they went to the wrong place first!!! Great planning! They then had to switch cars as they crashed their first one, then robbed a gas station....

Does any of this sound like James Bond was involved? The conspiracy theorists are making this sound like SEAL team six were on the streets on Paris a few days ago....
 
Veritie said:
Police Chief Helric Fredou now dead of apparent suicide according to CTs. I don't see anything on western media yet, but Googled it and there are some French publications reporting it.

And of course, CTs are using it to further their narrative...(he was murdered because he knew too much)
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can anyone find any news links about this? Theres loads of CT sites reporting it, but can't find any msm reports.

I've even gone to the news wire services direct, Reuters, SWN, IPS etc and even agencies like Russia's TASS, who are not known for a pro-western stance, are not saying anything about this.

I'm beginning to suspect that this is just a rumour with good running shoes
 
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Whitebeard said:
can anyone find any news links about think? Theres loads of CT sites reporting it, but can't find any msm reports.
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French local TV site
http://france3-regions.francetvinfo...uicide-d-un-commissaire-de-police-626916.html
Translated:
External Quote:
We learned this morning, a Commissioner SRPJ Limoges has committed suicide last nightin his office with his service weapon . Information confirmed by his superiors. It is unknown at this time the reasons for his actions. He would have killed himself that night to 1 hour. The Commissioner Helric Fredou aged 45 years was from Limoges began his career in 1997 as a police officer at the regional office the judicial police of Versailles, before returning to Limoges. He was deputy director of the regional police service since 2012. His father was a former police officer, his mother was a nurse in the emergency context CHU Limoges. He was single and had no children. According to the police union commissioner was depressed and experiencing burnout . In November 2013, the Commissioner Fredou had discovered the lifeless body of his colleague, number 3 of SRPJ Limoges, who had also committed suicide with his service weapon in his office. He was also 44 years old. The Commissioner Fredou, like all agents SRPJ worked yesterday on the case of the massacre at the headquarters of Charlie Hebdo . In particular, he surveyed the family of one of the victims. He killed himself before completing its report. A psychological cell was set up in the police station.
Simply sounds like the events triggered the suicide. Of course it's more fuel to the cynical conspiracy theorist
 
External Quote:


With 20+ years in Emergency Services the not enough blood claims are the ones ones that get me.
 
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BombDr said:
Sam Kylie on Sky spoke of how 'professional' they looked from the 10 seconds of film they saw, but any Lance Corporal at Junior Brecon (British Army Infantry NCO School) will tell you that no pairs fire-and-manouvre drill would include turning your back against the threat, which they did when getting back into the car.
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When I was in the Army we had saying that actual firefight takes less than 0.1% of the time of the battle rest of time is preparing and that separates amateurs from professionals. Personally I have no idea how the urban area battle is conducted but to me it seems that the criminals achieved their goal to kill certain journalist and also after that sprayed everyone who was around. Also what comes to threat and turning back to it I did not see any actual threat to them. I am saying this as an six star armchair general that the guy who made a comment about how the drills are conducted and how the criminals acted is no way saying about their allegaded professionality. ie. it does not matter in what tactical position you shoot unarmed civilians because even in that operation most of the time has been spent by bying guns, getting touch with likeminded people and all around plan and equip for the operation under the surveilance of the French secret service which in my mind they succeeded.

Oh why I am complaining about this? The reason is that I am outraged about how modern journalism works and how we get these supposed professionals in the news spewing shit from his arse because lowest common denominator instead of real professionals who say things which could enlighten all of us. Ofcourse some can say who cares but there are real world consiquenses. For example in this case the media published names of the terrorists and it turns out that one of them was actually totally innocent. An 18 year old high-school(or whatever this in France) kid whos life has been now investigated by thousands wannabe James Bonds and also secret services all around the world. His crime was that his sister married one of the terrorists. That is not fair and I bet that rest of his life he is gonna meet this thing for example if he wants to fly somewhere or get a job the employer is gonna google him and find out what people claim about him. This is unaccetable. I keep media and in higher standards than random blogs and it makes me so sad that most of the media nowdays is nothing more than a bad blog which feeds ignorance, false information and end of the days feeds consipiracy theories by publishing news which are factually wrong. This is bad because people actually trust those medias.

Also I condem these terrorists actions and my toughts are with the families of the victims. I hope this newer ever happends again
 
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Sgt.Tinfoil said:
Also what comes to threat and turning back to it I did not see any actual threat to them. I am saying this as an six star armchair general that the guy who made a comment about how the drills are conducted and how the criminals acted is no way saying about their allegaded professionality. ie. it does not matter in what tactical position you shoot unarmed civilians because even in that operation most of the time has been spent by bying guns, getting touch with likeminded people and all around plan and equip for the operation under the surveilance of the French secret service which in my mind they succeeded.
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Basic two-man contact drills are designed that a pair would move in sequence and not together and bounce from cover to cover. They had just engaged a Policeman and the Police in France is an armed, so they both should have been scanning their arcs to protect each other from potential threats and use the cover of the vehicles to move.

They did none of this, and it resembled a movie style shooting rather than a military one.
 
Will said:
This video. The guy claims the guy on the roof is wearing body armor.

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The guys with the writing could be parking attendants or street sweepers for all he knows, and the guys wearing body-armour, if it is that, could be the building security personnel.

What annoys me is the conclusions they draw from so little information.
 
Sgt.Tinfoil said:
For example in this case the media published names of the terrorists and it turns out that one of them was actually totally innocent. An 18 year old high-school(or whatever this in France) kid whos life has been now investigated by thousands wannabe James Bonds and also secret services all around the world. His crime was that his sister married one of the terrorists. That is not fair and I bet that rest of his life he is gonna meet this thing for example if he wants to fly somewhere or get a job the employer is gonna google him and find out what people claim about him. This is unaccetable.
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The police are the ones who identified him as a suspect though.
 
derrick06 said:
Because a lot of times there isn't necessarily a lot of blood correct?
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Yes Ive seen horrific injuries that produce little actual bleeding. The human body (as have animals) evolved a system commonly called Fight or Flight Response. In Fight or Flight one of the key things that happens as our body prepares for or reacts to injury is blood vessels contract to minimize blood loss.
 
I have little to add except the "who benefits" line drives me crazy. Sometimes things just happen and the Churchill? quote is more apropos for these situations "never let a good tragedy go to waste"

Mick West said:
. However Infowars/Prison Planet is taking what seems initially a more reasonable approach, avoiding most "false flag" accusations, and focussing more on freedom of speech, political correctness, and people being overly accommodating or fearful of muslims. Fairly straightforward libertarian or right wing stuff. It seem there that they, and Paul Joseph Watson in particular, are initially responding with honesty.

But then we also have:
External Quote:
On the Thursday, January 8 edition of the Alex Jones Show, Jones breaks down the latest on the Paris shooting, and expounds on why details of the perfectly timed attacks, carried out with military precision, fit the script of an inside job. Alex considers various motives behind why a media organization was targeted, as the manhunt for the suspects continues.
So I suspect they will discover their audience prefers to listen to false flag speculation, and so they will focus on that.
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I've noticed for the most part Jones only says something is a false flag when it happens in the U.S. or if the U.S. is involved so he can blame it on the government/Obama.
 
Mick West said:
Generally the Wikipedia entry for stories like this is closest to the most accurate information, as it aggregates the media reports, and there are many eyes on a new story looking for errors. So when looking to fact-check something, I would make this my first stop:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shooting

For perspective on the ground, here's the actual location. A quiet back street with no traffic:
10 Rue Nicolas-Appert, Paris, France
https://www.google.com/maps/@48.859...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sGTXpw4TcnzRDXId-3QCiOQ!2e0
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Thanks for the site.

Are you sure the policeman was shot in this street Mick ?

The reason Iam asking is today was my first day of surfing on internet and seeing what's what regarding the Paris shootings. I came across a lot of people who jumped on a verbal error by a Sky reporter at the scene where the policeman shot. Iam not going into it too much and Iam not posting the following link to dwell on what he said but more the location . It doesn't look like the street you mentioned .

Have a look at you will see what I mean. Once again it's not about what he is saying.

 
Cassady said:
Thanks for the site.

Are you sure the policeman was shot in this street Mick ?

The reason Iam asking is today was my first day of surfing on internet and seeing what's what regarding the Paris shootings. I came across a lot of people who jumped on a verbal error by a Sky reporter at the scene where the policeman shot. Iam not going into it too much and Iam not posting the following link to dwell on what he said but more the location . It doesn't look like the street you mentioned .

Have a look at you will see what I mean. Once again it's not about what he is saying.

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Can you be more precise as to what the problem is here? People should not have to watch the video to figure out what you are talking about.
 
According to this Sky report the reporter he is at the scene where the policeman was shot. It looks like the Boulevard and he actually says it is and not Rue Nicolas-Appert. Iam confused and tired.

Ive read through this thread though and there's a lit of good and balanced comments . I also lived in Paris a few years ago and it's true about what people have said about the side streets being empty.

Back on later.
 
Thank you so much for collecting all of this. I was trying to point out on the Coast to Coast AM fan page on facebook that not everything is a false flag hoax and got shouted down for that. It is nice to see that there are sane people out there that don't think everything is false.
 
Cassady said:
According to this Sky report the reporter he is at the scene where the policeman was shot. It looks like the Boulevard and he actually says it is and not Rue Nicolas-Appert. Iam confused and tired.
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As far as I have seen this policeman (Ahmed Merabet) was indeed shot on the Boulevard Richard Lenoir.

I think the location Mick West is referring to is where they shot at a policecar ( Allee Verte).
What I have read is that this policeman (Ahmed Merabet) was active on a bicycle, although I don't know if he was on that day. So I simply don't know if he was or wasn't the man in the policecar on the Allee Verte )
 
Mick West said:
Can you be more precise as to what the problem is here? People should not have to watch the video to figure out what you are talking about.
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This report has got the false flag claimers excited. As far as I can tell there are 2 'issues'. The first is the reporter says the blood was 'put' there. To me it seems like a badly worded sentence, not a deliberate use of the word put. The False flaggers are also saying that the blood seen on the pavement isn't where the policeman was lying in the 'headshot' video, which ties in with all the 'no blood, not enough blood, head shots should be messier' type of claims that are flying around. They are claiming the blood was put there after the fact.

Without either seeing the crime scene photographs or autopsy photographs I don't think that it can be clearly debunked, sadly. I find this whole False Flag thing very distasteful personally.
 
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