Miss VocalCord
Senior Member.
A quick look at both scenes makes me think it is the correct location ( parking ticket machine/ billboard). On what info do they claim they are two different locations?
Charlie Hebdo Conspiracy Theories - Ignore or Address?
- Thread starter Mick West
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That's all I wanted to know . It just threw me out a little.
Thanks for clearing it up.
Faithless
Member
No, the claim is that it's the correct location but the blood is around a meter too far away from where the policeman was shot dead. So it's the right location but the blood isn't where the body was. It's very hard to tell because of the vastly different angles of the 2 clips (the report and the footage of the shooting). I hope this is clear. Someone could probably line things up in Photoshop but it's not something I'm comfortable doing. I watched the original footage of the shooting on Liveleak and it's not something I wish to dwell on.
Edit: In a nutshell the claim is that blanks were used, the policeman wasn't killed and that someone put blood stains on the pavement afterwards, but slightly in the wrong place
Efftup
Senior Member.
It was really hard to tell exactly what the reporter said because the video was cut up so badly.
It could be that the "blood" was put there by some mourners who put the flowers down, and might actually be true, without the event being a false flag. I would like to see the video without the end of the sentence being chopped off and repeated.
It could be that the "blood" was put there by some mourners who put the flowers down, and might actually be true, without the event being a false flag. I would like to see the video without the end of the sentence being chopped off and repeated.
The only location I've mentioned is Rue Nicolas-Appert, where the Charlie Hebdo offices are.
As always the best place to start with questions like this is Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shooting#Attack
External Quote:
Trigger Hippie
Senior Member.
That forged site is already down. However, it was archived before it disappeared.
https://web.archive.org/web/2015011...d-over-authenticity-of-charlie-hebdo-footage/
Just to be clear, this is a screen cap of a fake BBC news site that reports the Charlie Hebdo murders were a false flag.
This video has recently appeared on YouTube claiming that it proves the incident was staged: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFxrXa0u9s8 .
It's a difficult one to contest.
It's a difficult one to contest.
BombDr
Senior Member.
It starts badly with an advert for Veterans Today and scientific woo...
Then he uses Gordon Duff as a source. This is the same Gordon Duff that asserted that PTSD levels in the IDF were lower than the US Army as they had more psychopaths. Of course he didn't cite any academic studies that might support this hypothesis. Gordon Duff 2016?
To the meat: I can't explain the lines, but I don't see it as part of a multi-layered international conspiracy either. Off the top of my head of the possible could be a leak from the car of some sort for the line that emerges near the front right wheel....? Happy to be corrected, but if this was take two, why use such a massive line when chalk would have done the job...?
Next, the blanks thing is also an assertion, as the rifles would need modification for semi-auto fire (like a movie gun), or a blank firing attachment on the end of the muzzle. This would be visually obvious, as would the ejected shell cases. How Mr Duff and the video uploader can assert the volume levels from mobile phone footage is beyond me, but I don't hear anything that supports the blanks theory.
Google Earth: That is some amazing investigating as everyone knows that street view is exactly the same as reality and never changes. Trees never grow, cars never move, roads are never repaired. All of these assertions can be instantly dismissed as the news from the scenes show the cars parked like that, filmed from the pavement, which is like that. Unless of course the media also filed their reports from a movie set...?
Gun ballistics: He does not know the type of ammunition used nor the material that it struck. Assertion with no testing.
I couldn't listen to anymore, but this is another case of investigation by internet, no supporting evidence, lots of assertion, from a country an Ocean away.
*Edit: Debunking thread to be written about Gordon Duff's PTSD assertions, as this is the subject of my PhD studies.
**Edit 2 to comply with politeness policy
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Crisan Radu
New Member
Hello everyone! This is my first post, happy to be here!
@BombDr I have answered the same thing on another forum since somebody threw in the same argument. If you stop the frames when the door is closing you can clearly see the line shinning.
On the other forum: http://www.reno.ro/index.php?showtopic=284788&view=findpost&p=4229361
Claim: Such stripes are used when casting films, or when fitting shows, to specify exactly where actors and dancers on stage.
To which i responded:
Good thing you told me. Sometimes I want to get back in the car and do not know how. I think I'll draw some lines in the parking lot.
If you look at the film, one can clearly see that when the door is closed, the trail that begins to shine.
So we have two cases:
1. Someone drew a shiny trail so the actor would know where he enters the car;
actor who needed this indication because he was not so clever to know how to get back to the car; actor for who they [the ones framing the incident] did not have too much money to hire one more intelligent (this one also dropped a shoe, maybe the same guy lost the ID in the car)
2. Since they shot the policemen (who allegedly escaped without injury) 100m from Charlie Hebdo, is it not possible to have shot somewhere in the car so there is a leak?
@BombDr I have answered the same thing on another forum since somebody threw in the same argument. If you stop the frames when the door is closing you can clearly see the line shinning.
On the other forum: http://www.reno.ro/index.php?showtopic=284788&view=findpost&p=4229361
Claim: Such stripes are used when casting films, or when fitting shows, to specify exactly where actors and dancers on stage.
To which i responded:
Good thing you told me. Sometimes I want to get back in the car and do not know how. I think I'll draw some lines in the parking lot.
If you look at the film, one can clearly see that when the door is closed, the trail that begins to shine.
So we have two cases:
1. Someone drew a shiny trail so the actor would know where he enters the car;
actor who needed this indication because he was not so clever to know how to get back to the car; actor for who they [the ones framing the incident] did not have too much money to hire one more intelligent (this one also dropped a shoe, maybe the same guy lost the ID in the car)
2. Since they shot the policemen (who allegedly escaped without injury) 100m from Charlie Hebdo, is it not possible to have shot somewhere in the car so there is a leak?
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Keith Beachy
Senior Member
You are joking, being sarcastic.
It would be a difficult one to support, it is complete nonsense. There is nothing in the video that means the incident was staged. The video makes up dots and then makes up the conclusion. Which part is difficult to contest? The date? Did they get the date right.
The video is advertising for fake news sources (aka BS factories) so they can sell soap.
deirdre
Senior Member.
no it isnt. (ps the video is in extremely bad taste. please follow posting guidelines for one... especially with this type of graphic video. it's disgusting to make people click your link without warning them.).
when she zooms in the light changes. it has to do with how digital cameras process available light. the 'grease spots' in front of the other car 'disappear' too. the shadow being cast by the gunman disappear too with the zoom.
it's a grease spot on the street and in bad taste to further spread this kind of bunk.
A lot of people seem to be talking about that poor fellow being shot in the head but do we know that he actually was? IE a coroner's report or some such thing? It looked to me like the bullet might well have entered into his upper torso and possibly been contained by body armour, which would result in no readily apparent exit wound.
I also heard that they actually discharged an RPG inside the office. That must have caused a real mess.
I also heard that they actually discharged an RPG inside the office. That must have caused a real mess.
BombDr
Senior Member.
Other than hearing damage and kinetic energy, It would have just been a mess. They have a minimum arming range and the Mujahideen in Afghanistan once did this ambush against the Russians in which they were firing RPGs at tank from 5m and wondering why they were just smashing against the armour or bouncing off...
Pete Tar
Senior Member.
I think they mean difficult as in difficult to have to sit through footage of someone's death in order to refute weak claims.
I agree. The barrel was not lined up with his head.
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
This has been explained. Hollywood films and TV shows depict a misrepresentation of "real life". Please review this very thread content....will explain.
Here's another Charlie Hebdo conspiracy-video:
by BPEarthWatch
This one claims mismatch between the getaway-car on site and that black car that was found bit later.
by BPEarthWatch
This one claims mismatch between the getaway-car on site and that black car that was found bit later.
Miss VocalCord
Senior Member.
Yes, sorry. I was slightly confused by the answer Cassady.
Miss VocalCord
Senior Member.
I do think the rear view mirrors in both images are chrome looking and not black as the youtuber wants you to believe.
Trigger Hippie
Senior Member.
That guy's theory is based on his claim that in one of the images the side mirror of the getaway car does not seem to have have chrome plating.
The chrome becomes evident in higher resolution images of the same scene.
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BombDr
Senior Member.
What are you expecting to see, and what is your experience of such things?
Hevach
Senior Member.
If you don't think there's enough blood, I invite you to view the (disturbing) video posted by Fireofficer1822 earlier in the thread, or go to Youtube and search for R Budd Dwyer, who's live-on-TV suicide during a press conference is probably the most extensively videoed incident ever of a bullet intersecting a human skull (and, again, a very disturbing video).
In both cases, in the moment of impact, there's about as much blood (maybe even less) than the police video. Some versions of the Dwyer video show more slowly running down his short over the next several minutes, but all show quite little from the initial wound.
Headshots do not work like they do in video games. There is no slow motion shower of teeth and gooey bits. We humans tend to die in fairly anticlimactic ways.
Graham2001
Active Member
After reading this article I have the feeling we are going to see claims that the management of Charlie Hebdo were behind this...
http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world...bdo-to-go-on-sale/ar-AA85Lsr?ocid=mailsignoutExternal Quote:
Mackdog
Senior Member.
I would not be surprised...the old "inside job'
Graham2001
Active Member
Too true, on a lighter and off topic note (I hope I don't get in trouble for this...) the link below is to the best of the Je Suis CHARLIE cartoons on DeviantArts.I would not be surprised...the old "inside job'
http://pigghiuigghi.deviantart.com/art/Je-Suis-CHARLIE-505755740
Hingefactor
Member
Alex Jones is calling for possible ballistic experts who might be his fans to prove that the cop shooting video is fake. Virtually every conspiracy theory website is also pushing the same bunk.
Bruno D.
Senior Member.
It's sooo smart.
Take a blurred low quality 20s smartphone video and create a whole conspiracy out of that. I hope serious ballistic experts can tell him that this video has no minimum analysis requirements whatsoever.
Trigger Hippie
Senior Member.
This has the makings of a situation in which a possible error in a news reporting is seen by conspiracists as evidence of media manipulation and lies. Similar to the recent shootings in the Ottawa parliament building, where a reporter mistakenly claimed mounting holes were bullet holes.
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...ottawa-parliament-bullet-holes-are-fake.4945/
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...ottawa-parliament-bullet-holes-are-fake.4945/
jaydeehess
Senior Member.
In addition, there is the supposition of the bullet entering the torso above the vest and being contained, upon exit, by the vest, lower on the man's body. If true then it would also contain blood flow for some time.
Here's my interview with French Canadian La Presse:
http://www.lapresse.ca/internationa...ts-les-theories-du-complot-se-multiplient.php
It's short and in French.
http://www.lapresse.ca/internationa...ts-les-theories-du-complot-se-multiplient.php
It's short and in French.
Trigger Hippie
Senior Member.
That's a nice piece from a respectable paper. So you basically reiterated the points you made in the OP.
Hi folks,
This my first post, although I've lurked for months. If I flunk any etiquette please let me know. This website is an excellent resource.
As with any conspiracy, the theorists tend to use such purely anecdotal (for lack of a different descriptor) evidence and experience to explain certain things. You can really see that demonstrated by the questions "where's the blood?" or "no recoil?". And of course, I'm quite sure that a majority of the CTs have little experience working with weapons, seeing people get shot or actually witnessing deadly injuries.
Perhaps once we have definitively confirmed the weapon used by the attackers, and maybe even the ammunition we can really start to get to grips with the conspiracy as it pertains to officer Merabet's murder.
I stand corrected, assuming the rifle was an AN-94, it would be chambered in 5.45x39mm. This round is hardly as large as the more typical Warsaw Pact 7.62 calibres and is more similar to the 5.56 NATO round (not exactly, but close). When you shoot 5.56, recoil is very manageable. Add to that the AN-94's ability to also suppress the recoil for a very quick two round burst firing rate. This is because the major firing mechanism components move loosely/separately inside the AN94 housing.
Recoil is often over estimated by people with little shooting experience, and this is very clear here. As an aside, watch for pseudo/former military CTs inferring the military precision of the attack but then claiming that recoil is too much for the attackers to have compensated for.
Obviously, the firearm itself has much less effect on the wound than the bullet. So when we discuss the wounds (or blood for that matter) we need to see the sucker that hits the target. It's not as big as you think. Very similar to the 5.56 NATO in fact.
For reference, please have a look at how dramatically smaller the 5.45 bullet is out of its casing in the following link:
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=126629
This all said, if we discover the firearm was something else, then I'll reassess. I want to watch the video footage tonight to see if I can really tell what rifles the terrorists used. Unless I've missed a news article quoting police after they recovered the things.
This my first post, although I've lurked for months. If I flunk any etiquette please let me know. This website is an excellent resource.
As with any conspiracy, the theorists tend to use such purely anecdotal (for lack of a different descriptor) evidence and experience to explain certain things. You can really see that demonstrated by the questions "where's the blood?" or "no recoil?". And of course, I'm quite sure that a majority of the CTs have little experience working with weapons, seeing people get shot or actually witnessing deadly injuries.
Perhaps once we have definitively confirmed the weapon used by the attackers, and maybe even the ammunition we can really start to get to grips with the conspiracy as it pertains to officer Merabet's murder.
I stand corrected, assuming the rifle was an AN-94, it would be chambered in 5.45x39mm. This round is hardly as large as the more typical Warsaw Pact 7.62 calibres and is more similar to the 5.56 NATO round (not exactly, but close). When you shoot 5.56, recoil is very manageable. Add to that the AN-94's ability to also suppress the recoil for a very quick two round burst firing rate. This is because the major firing mechanism components move loosely/separately inside the AN94 housing.
Recoil is often over estimated by people with little shooting experience, and this is very clear here. As an aside, watch for pseudo/former military CTs inferring the military precision of the attack but then claiming that recoil is too much for the attackers to have compensated for.
Obviously, the firearm itself has much less effect on the wound than the bullet. So when we discuss the wounds (or blood for that matter) we need to see the sucker that hits the target. It's not as big as you think. Very similar to the 5.56 NATO in fact.
For reference, please have a look at how dramatically smaller the 5.45 bullet is out of its casing in the following link:
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=126629
This all said, if we discover the firearm was something else, then I'll reassess. I want to watch the video footage tonight to see if I can really tell what rifles the terrorists used. Unless I've missed a news article quoting police after they recovered the things.
Essentially, there was some general discussion about why people believe in conspiracy theories. The interview was in English, so it might not translate perfectly.
There's another interview with me on the topic coming out on Vice in a day or so.
BombDr
Senior Member.
Hi Pigeonkak and welcome to MB.
Do you have a source for the AN94 claim, as it is a very rare weapon and the weapon in the video does look like an AK variant rather than an AN94.
I have been on the receiving end of a few AKs, but happy to be proved wrong on this.
Hi BombDr and thank you for the welcome.
I haven't confirmed whether the rifles are AN94, but worked off of an earlier comment about the possibilty it was an AN94. You are correct about the rarity and I can imagine that makes the AN94 equally hard to squirrel away from official books and into a very strict gun control countries like France. I welcome clarity on the actual model of rifle, if that can even be properly ascertained in the grainy video. I'm looking tonight for actual police comments on weapons seized after the GIGN operations.
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