Boston bombing suspect's friend Ibragim Todashev shot and killed by FBI

[Soulfly]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57585638/fbi-agent-in-fatal-shooting-of-suspect-in-orlando/
Pretty sure this is going to fuel the fire.

 

[Pete Tar]

Yeah, just saw this.

Ibragim Todashev, shot dead early Wednesday by the FBI in Florida, was "directly involved" in a 2011 triple homicide in Waltham, Massachusetts, a law enforcement official told CNN Wednesday.

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That was the murders of the three Jews that were possibly connected to the older brother.

The unsolved triple murder received renewed interest after it was learned that Tamerlan Tsarnaev, a deceased suspect in the Boston Marathon attacks, had been a good friend of one of the victims, all of whom were found with their throats slit.
...
While the man was being questioned by an FBI agent, two Massachusetts State Police troopers and other law enforcement personnel, "a violent confrontation was initiated by the individual," FBI spokesman Jason Pack said.
Todashev was killed and "the agent sustained non-life-threatening injuries," Pack said.
...

Taramov said his friend had told him he had a bad feeling about the direction the investigation was heading. "He felt like there's going to be a setup ... bad setup against him. Because he told me, 'They are making up such crazy stuff, I don't know ... why they doing it. OK, I'm answering the questions, but they are still making up some, like, connections, some crazy stuff. I don't know why they are doing it.' "
Before meeting with the FBI for a 7:30 p.m. interview Tuesday, Taramov said, his friend asked him to take his parents' telephone numbers. "He just told me, 'Take the numbers, in case something happens, if I get locked up, or whatever, call them.' You know what I mean?

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http://edition.cnn.com/2013/05/22/justice/florida-fbi-shooting-boston/index.html

 

[RustyShackleford]

This is a misleading title...it isn't a shootout when you kill an unarmed man.

 

[Mick West]

This is a misleading title...it isn't a shootout when you kill an unarmed man.

I agree, and I've changed it it:
"Boston bombing suspect's friend Ibragim Todashev shot and killed by FBI "

He certainly did not have a gun, but there are differing accounts of what actually happened. I'm thinking perhaps they were a bit trigger happy. Reminds me of Jean Charles de Menezes.

This is the latest info I could find on Todashev:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...rights-20130609_1_shooting-probe-u-s-attorney

June 9, 2013|By Jerriann Sullivan, Orlando Sentinel
U.S. Department of Justice civil-rights division has pledged to conduct a separate investigation into the FBI's fatal shooting last month of Ibragim Todashev in Orlando — but only if it decides one is necessary.
The agency announced its position in response to the American Civil Liberties Union's call for an independent examination of the May 22 shooting. The FBI is part of the justice department.

Todashev, 27, died while he was being questioned by the agent, who is from the FBI's Boston division, at a condo near Universal Studios.Two Massachusetts State Police troopers and other law-enforcement officials were also at the interview, and were "primarily" questioning Todashev about a Sept. 11, 2011 triple slaying in Waltham, Mass.
The Council on American-Islamic Relations' Florida chapter has also called for a federal civil-rights investigation.
A DOJ spokesperson said the civil-rights division is "monitoring the FBI Inspection Division's inquiry into this matter while it progresses, coordinating with the FBI and reviewing evidence as it is obtained."
If an additional "investigation is warranted, the Civil Rights Division and the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Middle District of Florida will direct that investigation and make an independent decision," the DOJ spokesperson said.
The FBI has refused to publicly release specific information about the confrontation or how many law-enforcement officials were interviewing Todashev.
Anonymous law-enforcement sources have leaked differing scenarios about what happened.

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[Soulfly]

I agree, and I've changed it it:
"Boston bombing suspect's friend Ibragim Todashev shot and killed by FBI "

I just C&Ped it from the articles headline. Not my intent to be misleading.

 

[Mick West]

I just C&Ped it from the articles headline. Not my intent to be misleading.

I know, sorry I should have mentioned that.

 

[Soulfly]

The article is from the morning of the incident so the headline could just be misinformation and not intentional misleading.

 

[Mick West]

The URL of the story is "fbi-agent-in-fatal-shooting-of-suspect-in-orlando" which might have been the original headline. News sites often change the headline on a story without changing the contents.

Example of earlier version that kept the headline.

http://kpho.membercenter.worldnow.c...agent-in-fatal-shooting-of-suspect-in-orlando

 

[AluminumTheory]

Worth pointing out is that this guy was suspected to be involved in the 2011 Waltham Murders in which 3 men had their throats slit to the point of near decapitation.

So the guy who did this was obviously very proficient with a knife and someone to be scared of.

 

[Josh Heuer]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...ing-suspect/ya3iB1u4t2YQYN9wfMVseJ/story.html
I'm not sure how this all works, but the FBI is stopping the autopsy from being released to the public because the investigation of his death is still ongoing.
This kind of thing really confuses me. The FBI was there, they killed him, now they're investigating? What takes so long? Why would the release of the autopsy hinder their investigation?
Can someone please clue me in. I'm clueless.


Also...

Worth pointing out is that this guy was suspected to be involved in the 2011 Waltham Murders in which 3 men had their throats slit to the point of near decapitation.

So the guy who did this was obviously very proficient with a knife and someone to be scared of.

Notice he was *suspected*
Doesn't mean he did it.
Also doesn't mean he is 'very proficient with a knife and someone to be scared of'
That's jumping the gun big time.

 

[AluminumTheory]

Also...

Notice he was *suspected*
Doesn't mean he did it.
Also doesn't mean he is 'very proficient with a knife and someone to be scared of'
That's jumping the gun big time.

Doesn't mean he did it, it means they think he did it or was involved which would imply that there is reason to fear him if he attacks you in the event that is true.

Not really jumping the gun.

 

[Josh Heuer]

Worth pointing out is that this guy was suspected to be involved in the 2011 Waltham Murders in which 3 men had their throats slit to the point of near decapitation.

So the guy who did this was obviously very proficient with a knife and someone to be scared of.

Here, let's dispel your obviously exaggerated claims.
Straight from Wikipedia...

2011 Waltham murders
Main article: 2011 Waltham murders
A triple homicide was committed inWaltham, Massachusetts, on the evening of September 11, 2011.[8][15] Three men, Brendan Mess, Erik Weissman, and Raphael Teken, were murdered in Mess's apartment. All had their throats slit from ear to ear, with such great force that they were nearly decapitated. Illegal marijuana worth thousands of dollars was left covering their bodies, and $5,000 was left at the scene. The local district attorney said that it appeared that the killer and the victims knew each other, and that the murders were not random.

Tamerlan Tsarnaev, the deceased suspect in the April 2013 Boston Marathon bombings, had previously described murder victim Brendan Mess as his best friend, though before Mess was murdered there had been animosity between Tsarnaev and Mess over Mess's "lifestyle". After the bombings and subsequent revelations of Tsarnaev's personal life, the Waltham murders case was reexamined in April 2013 with Tsarnaev as a new suspect.[8] Todashev's friendship with Tsarnaev then led to him being questioned for potential connection with the murders and other actions involving Tsarnaev.



So basically he was BEING questioned about these murders, not even suspected to be involved, only having a connection to the older Tsarnaev who was best friends with one of the deceased.
So he wasn't directly connected to the crime that we know of...basically indirectly connected. That makes you think he is, in your words, 'obviously very proficient with a knife and someone to be scared of.' ???
And that's not jumping the gun?

 

[AluminumTheory]

Because he attacked them...

 

[Josh Heuer]

Because he attacked them...

That's a good point you bring up.
However, I think it's important to consider that first off, that is not yet accurate information. The FBI is still reviewing the case. Although with their perfect track record of internal investigations on FBI agents killing people in these situations, I think we can bet our money on the outcome being in favor of the FBI being justified.
Either way, there's discrepancies on what happened that day, so we can't really say it who did what.
Again from Wikipedia...



On May 22, 2013, law enforcement officers, including an FBI special agent from theBoston field office, and two Massachusetts State Police (MSP) troopers, interviewed Ibragim Todashev for approximately eight hours at his apartment in Orlando, Florida. They questioned him regarding the 2011 Waltham murders and his connections to the Boston bombings suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev.[2][16] Both Todashev and Tsarnaev had trained at the Wai Kru gym and lived close to each other in Cambridge, Massachusetts.[9] The investigators later said that Todashev implicated both himself and Tamerlan Tsarnaev in the murders during the questioning. They reported that Todashev was beginning to write a formal statement when he asked to take a break, and then suddenly attacked the FBI agent.[2][16] Todashev was shot multiple times and killed.[2][17][18]

Officials initially claimed that Todashev picked up a knife or attempted to grab a samurai sword, but later said that it was unclear whether this was the case; one source said it was "a knife or a pipe or something". A number of later reports said that he was unarmed.[17][18][19][20] Some earlier accounts implied that the FBI agent was alone with Todashev at the time of the shooting.[18] Following Todashev's death, his father showed photographs to reporters in Moscow that he said demonstrated his son had been shot at point-blank range in the head.[21] According to the account of an unnamed law enforcement official, Todashev knocked the interrogating agent to the ground with a table, and then lunged at him with a metal pole, or possibly a broomstick.[22] In this account there was one detective in the room—who did not fire—besides the FBI agent.[22] The agent sustained minor injuries requiring stitches. An account given by former FBI deputy director John Miller states that an MSP trooper "noticed that Todashev was getting more and more agitated. Rather than alert the agent and tip off Todashev that they sensed something was about to happened, [the trooper] texted the agent and [wrote], 'Be careful, I think this guy is becoming more agitated'. As the agent looked down at that text, that's when the table went over, Todashev came over the table and picked up apparently a metal broom handle or some object like that [...] and charged the agent. The agent [w]as knocked back, came up with his gun, fired two or three times. Todashev came back at him and he fired more times." Authorities have confirmed that the agent fired six times.[23]

Todashev's body was flown to Russia on June 20 by his American widow and his father,[24] and was buried in a Muslim cemetery in Grozny on June 29.[25] The FBI established a post-shooting incident-review team to investigate the shooting.[16] On July 16, the release of Todashev's autopsy report, completed by a Florida medical examiner's office, was blocked by the FBI because the "case was still under active investigation."[26]

Allegations of civil rights violations and excessive use of force
On May 29, the Council on American–Islamic Relations (CAIR), an American Islamic civil liberties group, held a news conference in Orlando at which it presented photographs of Todashev's body which it said showed that he was shot seven times, once in the head.[27] CAIR asked theDepartment of Justice for an investigation separate from the FBI investigation into the shooting to determine whether the FBI violated Todashev's civil rights.[28] The FBI immediately responded with releasing a statement saying: "The FBI takes very seriously any shooting incidents involving our agents, and as such, we have an effective, time-tested process for addressing them internally. The review process is thorough and objective and conducted as expeditiously as possible under the circumstances."[29]

On June 5, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has also called for an independent investigation into the shooting. Michael German, a former FBI agent and ACLU's counsel on national security, immigration and privacy,[30] said: "What became concerning is that different stories... were coming out. They need to correct the record—both for the protection of the people in the community and for the protection of the law enforcement officers."[29][31] A Department of Justice spokesman said that they are going to determine whether their Civil Rights Division investigation of the killing is warranted.[32]

 

[Pete Tar]

Here, let's dispel your obviously exaggerated claims.
...
So basically he was BEING questioned about these murders, not even suspected to be involved, only having a connection to the older Tsarnaev who was best friends with one of the deceased.
So he wasn't directly connected to the crime that we know of...basically indirectly connected. That makes you think he is, in your words, 'obviously very proficient with a knife and someone to be scared of.' ???
And that's not jumping the gun?

You really don't think there was any ground for suspicion as to possible involvement? That would seem to be an obvious avenue they would explore.
There was speculation that more than one person was involved due to how their throats were cut.
What's the exaggerated claim exactly?

led to him being questioned for potential connection with the murders and other actions involving Tsarnaev.

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Potential connection makes him a suspect.

 

[Cairenn]

If Zimmerman can use self defense as a reason for shooting Trayvon, then someone attacked with any weapon can do the same. The agent had to have stiches, so it does seem he was attacked.

I did not really like the Zimmerman verdict, but I think it was correct.

 

[Josh Heuer]

You really don't think there was any ground for suspicion as to possible involvement? That would seem to be an obvious avenue they would explore.
There was speculation that more than one person was involved due to how their throats were cut.
What's the exaggerated claim exactly?

led to him being questioned for potential connection with the murders and other actions involving Tsarnaev.

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Potential connection makes him a suspect.

Well, your first point was this...

"Worth pointing out is that this guy was suspected to be involved in the 2011 Waltham Murders which 3 men had their throats slit to the point of near decapitation.

So the guy who did this was obviously very proficient with a knife and someone to be scared of."

First off, you exaggerated just how involved he is in the crime. You said he was suspected to be involved. Again, read Wikipedia. He was questioned simply because he knew someone who was thought to be involved, which yes, makes him a suspect, but doesn't mean he was involved in any way. (I am friends with someone who threw a Molotov cocktail at city hall in my town and went to jail for it [almost found guilty of terrorism], does that make me an expert with Molotov cocktails and someone to be afraid of simply because I know him?)

You're jumping the gun when you take the idea he is somehow involved in this crime (without evidence, remember he was only being questioned because of his connection to someone else who was thought to be part of the crime.) and using it to make the statement that he's proficient with a knife and someone to be afraid of.

Also, the victims were nearly decapitated. Doesn't sound like they were proficient at all. If these guys were radicalized like the government is trying to claim (tsarnaev's 6 month trip overseas) then I would imagine they would have fully decapitated the individuals.


Anyway, then your second point as to why you think he's proficient with a knife and someone to be afraid of is
"Because he attacked them..."

And that's to be determined. As I said before though, internal investigation, the FBI is bound to be found justified whether he attacked or not.
However, read Wikipedia again, multiple accounts, multiple weapons used, we don't even know if he used a knife at this point.

 

[Pete Tar]

Their throats were slit with such force that they were nearly decapitated, it wasn't a failed decapitation.
And you're replying to Aluminium Theory not me.

 

[Josh Heuer]

Sorry 'bout that Pete Tar, I didn't realize someone different posted a response.

Anyway, to answer your question, I guess I could only assume in this instance that, apart from just being associated with someone who may/may not have been involved the crime, law enforcement must have had some conclusive evidence against him or something linking him to the crime to want to question him. But, that's just speculation. Maybe someone could link me to anything that explains what exactly they had on him.

 

[Pete Tar]

Umm... how did you miss this, or do you discount it as not worth listening to?

Ibragim Todashev, who died during the interview with authorities, not only confessed to his direct role in slashing the throats of three people in Waltham, Massachusetts, but also fingered Tsarnaev in the deaths, the official said Wednesday.

Todashev was being questioned about the slayings and his acquaintance with Tsarnaev.

Todashev attacked an FBI agent, who shot him dead, a federal law enforcement official with direct knowledge of the case told CNN.
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/05/22/justice/florida-fbi-shooting-boston/index.html

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he investigators later said that Todashev implicated both himself and Tamerlan Tsarnaev in the murders during the questioning. They reported that Todashev was beginning to write a formal statement when he asked to take a break, and then suddenly attacked the FBI agent.[2][16] Todashev was shot multiple times and killed.[2][17][18]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibragim_Todashev#2011_Waltham_murders

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Now I'm even more confused as to why your were claiming he was just being questioned but not as a suspect.

(and they are unlikely to release the exact proof they had of his involvement as it would still be an active case - suffice it to say they have stated in no uncertain terms that he was involved.)

 

[Josh Heuer]

Again, there's no real evidence he was involved, yet. Wikipedia points out that he was being questioned simply because he was friends with someone who may have been involved. After multiple hours of interrogation, he was killed, conveniently while writing a confession.
I'm just a little suspicious of this story, especially with the mix ups in accounts of what happened, and how he was killed. Sounds more like an execution.
Again, the FBI is well known for having a perfect track record in these internal investigations of homocides. Of course it will be swept under the rug. The fact that the FBI can get away with making sure no other agency is involved in investigating a crime THEY committed says something to me, especially when they continuously find their actions justifiable. You may think I'm some conspiracy theorist for thinking this way, but I think it's more than reasonable at this point to question the FBi's actions in this instance.

They're just people like you and me. Some may have the best of intentions, but they're not all good people.

 

[Josh Heuer]

I wanted to post this a while ago but kept forgetting...
From Huffington Post

Abdul-Baki Todashev, Dad Of Man Shot By FBI In Boston Probe, Shares Regrets

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MUSA SADULAYEVAPMay 23, 2013

GROZNY, Russia -- The father of a Chechen immigrant shot dead by U.S. law enforcement agents while being questioned about his ties to a Boston Marathon bombings suspect said Thursday that he regrets allowing his son to go to the United States.

Ibragim Todashev, 27, was a mixed martial arts fighter who had trained with Tamerlan Tsarnaev in Boston, and his father said they had bonded because of their shared interests and heritage as Chechens from southern Russia. Tsarnaev, 26, was killed in a shootout with police days after the April 15 terrorist attack.Todashev was killed Wednesday after an altercation with an FBI agent during a meeting with the agent and two Massachusetts state troopers at his home in central Florida.

Abdul-Baki Todashev told The Associated Press that his son – the second of 12 children – was at university when he got an opportunity to go to the United States to study English about five or six years ago. He said he later agreed to his son's request to remain in the U.S. "because it seemed like the safest country."

Chechnya has been ravaged by two wars between separatist fighters and Russian federal troops since 1994, and remains troubled by periodic outbreaks of violence. The family's red-brick house on the outskirts of Grozny, the Chechen capital, still bears the marks of shrapnel.

The elder Todashev said his son gave up martial arts because of an injury and later held a number of jobs, including as a driver at a retirement home, before moving to Florida within the last year. His father said his son had planned to come to Chechnya this week to visit his extended family, but was asked by the FBI to delay his trip.

The FBI gave no details on why it was interested in Ibragim Todashev except to say that he was being questioned as part of the Boston investigation. However, two officials briefed on the investigation said he had implicated himself as having been involved in a 2011 triple-slaying in a Boston suburb; investigators now suspect that Tsarnaev may have been involved in the unsolved crime.

Abdul-Baki Todashev said he had learned of his son's death from a phone call from one of his son's friends, who also had been questioned by the FBI. He said the friend, whom he didn't name, told him that both of them had been pressured to confess to the murders, but that they were innocent.

The father said he was worried that with his son was dead, the FBI could now pin any crime on him.

"Out of fear of the lawlessness in Chechnya, I sent him to the U.S., because it seemed like the safest country at the time," the distraught father said. "Now I'm thinking about how to bring home his body. As it turns out I sent him to his death."

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The whole thing is iffy because the FBI stated he was being questioned about the Boston bombings due to him knowing Tsarnaev...the interview had nothing to do with the 2011 triple homicide, but he implicated himself, just before being murdered by an FBI agent.
It looks like the only actual evidence the FBI had that linked Todashev to the triple homicide was his confession.
But, then again, that's just from the news reports. For all we know, they did have some piece of evidence linking him directly to the murder scene; which would explain why he might try to attack the agent interviewing him and taking his confession.

Edit: looks like I'll have to dig a little deeper on this...huff post reported the FBI said the interview was about Boston. NYTimes says FBI said they were questioning him about the homicides. I'm not sure of the significance but one if these isn't right.