9/11: How hard is it to hit a building at 500mph?

maple leaf

New Member
Here we go , because this did happen because I was told so. All I am asking is any pilot in here that thinks its possible go show us. Imagine the fame on you tube, you would go viral, pilot did 911 profile on first attempt. A good summation was this, find a MR lube, open both doors, hop in a big truck you have have never driven and on your first attempt, drive it at 120 mph through both sets of doors without slowing down and without hitting the walls.

I am not a part of 911 pilots for truth, but I am a pilot and I know what's possible, unfortunately with the level of skills of these guys it was not
 

maple leaf

New Member
No we are not.

We are talking about perfectly competent light a/c pilots, some of whom also did time in large aircraft simulators., as mentioned elsewhere in this thread - do a bit more research.


Bud , do you fly for a living, do you know what stress these guys were under on the day to get not one but three of these perfect. If it was that easy anyone could be an airline pilot and with the skill set of these guys anyone could be a blackbird pilot. If you dont fly you dont know, its that simple. I dont care that one of them had some time in a 737 simulator, it means nothing. Many that do the sim training for an airline cant pass the test at the end.

Compare this , you may understand. You are a competent driver of a car, I want you to hop in an Formula 1 car on your first attempt and race around the track and come in first against all the professional drivers. If you are American, hop in a Nascar and do it around the oval.
 
Last edited:

MikeC

Closed Account
Pointless analogy - I think you are putting up a strawman like this because your previous argument about pilot time and training have been shown to be factually incorrect.
 

Jason

Senior Member
Here we go , because this did happen because I was told so. All I am asking is any pilot in here that thinks its possible go show us
Don't the events that unfolded on 9-11 pretty much prove that it is possible. Planes were flown that way, and did hit their intended targets. So I don't understand the point you're trying to make...
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Bud , do you fly for a living, do you know what stress these guys were under on the day to get not one but three of these perfect. If it was that easy anyone could be an airline pilot and with the skill set of these guys anyone could be a blackbird pilot. If you dont fly you dont know, its that simple. I dont care that one of them had some time in a 737 simulator, it means nothing. Many that do the sim training for an airline cant pass the test at the end.

I EMPLOY Pilots!

At the moment I also have an Air Traffic Control Licence holder working for me. I am a LAME, with a handful of unofficial hours at the controls of light aircraft when fiends have been flying around - it has never been a great problem for me to bring an aircraft onto a heading and fly straight.

When I was an apprentice we used to use a F-27 procedures trainer to fly under the local harbour bridge.

You are well overstating the complexity of hte problem.

These guys didn't have to train to pass a flight test and get an ATPL - they just had to hit some buildings.
 

Jason

Senior Member
do you know what stress these guys were under on the day to get not one but three of these perfect
And how do you know the stress these guys were under? Have you ever hijacked a plane? You're making too many "assumptions" based on how you would've handled the situation..
 

maple leaf

New Member
But all of that did happen. The towers stood at over 1000 feet, and were national landmarks. I wouldn't exactly call them needles nor is the pentagon a needle. Your "presumptions" are based on what exactly, on all of your years of experience or what you read on CT sites.

And how many have you flown?

My time is 9000 hours give or take , experience as a flight instructor, flown King air 90, 100, 200 , shorts 360 , Lear Jet 45, and now I fly 737 300-900 series.... Thats my skill set. Been in aviation since I was 18 , from throwing bags on the ramp and working hard to pay for my licences. I am an airline transport pilot with the Canadian ATPL and the EASA ATPL in Europe.
 

maple leaf

New Member
Again, without calling me a truther or whatever term of the day is in fashion, I have made a simple request to any pilot who thinks its possible, GO PROVE IT. How much easier then that does it get. [...]
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
Again, without calling me a truther or whatever term of the day is in fashion, I have made a simple request to any pilot who thinks its possible, GO PROVE IT. How much easier then that does it get. [...]
Yes, nothing says "sane argument" like a dare to commit suicide
merely to reinforce an already established filmed reality.

Screen Shot 2014-10-04 at 5.34.34 PM.png
 
Last edited:

maple leaf

New Member
And how do you know the stress these guys were under? Have you ever hijacked a plane? You're making too many "assumptions" based on how you would've handled the situation..[/QUOT

Its called common sense unfortunately, again why am I being attacked for asking a simple question. If you think its possible GO DO IT.
 

maple leaf

New Member
I EMPLOY Pilots!

At the moment I also have an Air Traffic Control Licence holder working for me. I am a LAME, with a handful of unofficial hours at the controls of light aircraft when fiends have been flying around - it has never been a great problem for me to bring an aircraft onto a heading and fly straight.

When I was an apprentice we used to use a F-27 procedures trainer to fly under the local harbour bridge.

You are well overstating the complexity of hte problem.

These guys didn't have to train to pass a flight test and get an ATPL - they just had to hit some buildings.

Fine go prove it!!!!! Bud making a statement like that unfortunately shows you have no idea of whats involved, seriously, what does it take to be an air traffic controller , nothing, you are just making blips go around the screen like a video game, no point in training is there, anyone can be an arrival departure controller at LHR , LGW, BOS ect ect ect
 

Jason

Senior Member
No one is attacking you @maple leaf. Your argument is being scrutinized. You want a pilot to prove to you that planes could be flown in similar fashion as to what happened on 9-11, and I said; "Don't the events that unfolded on 9-11 pretty much prove that it is possible. Planes were flown that way, and did hit their intended targets. So I don't understand the point you're trying to make..."
 
Last edited:

Jason

Senior Member
Fine go prove it!!!!!
Why does someone have to prove it for you to believe it, aren't the events of that day evidence that planes can be flown that way? I don't understand that argument. What are you implying happened on that day then if the planes weren't hijacked? I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish? Please explain
 

Jason

Senior Member
Bud , do you fly for a living, do you know what stress these guys were under on the day to get not one but three of these perfect. If it was that easy anyone could be an airline pilot and with the skill set of these guys anyone could be a blackbird pilot. If you dont fly you dont know, its that simple. I dont care that one of them had some time in a 737 simulator, it means nothing. Many that do the sim training for an airline cant pass the test at the end.

Compare this , you may understand. You are a competent driver of a car, I want you to hop in an Formula 1 car on your first attempt and race around the track and come in first against all the professional drivers. If you are American, hop in a Nascar and do it around the oval.
There are plenty of pilots on this forum that could give you more technical answers but I would urge you to read through this entire thread. The answers you seek are on the prior pages...
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
There's no money involved. If you don't think it's possible, despite the fact that is what appears to have happened and is agreed on by the investigators, so what? No-one owes you anything.
 

Jason

Senior Member
Fine go prove it!!!!! Bud making a statement like that unfortunately shows you have no idea of whats involved, seriously, what does it take to be an air traffic controller , nothing, you are just making blips go around the screen like a video game, no point in training is there, anyone can be an arrival departure controller at LHR , LGW, BOS ect ect ect
That was uncalled for @maple leaf, he offered up his background in an attempt to explain why what happened that day was nothing extraordinary. And honestly, I've never heard a pilot ever discuss an ATCer's job like that before. Their job is probably one of the most stressful jobs there is and are responsible for thousands of lives each day. For you to dismiss his job as merely playing a video game, says a lot about your experience level and professionalism...
 
Last edited:

MikeC

Closed Account
Fine go prove it!!!!!

That which is asserted without foundation can be denied without foundation.

Bud making a statement like that unfortunately shows you have no idea of whats involved, seriously, what does it take to be an air traffic controller , nothing, you are just making blips go around the screen like a video game, no point in training is there, anyone can be an arrival departure controller at LHR , LGW, BOS ect ect ect

And of course that is why controllers go through rigorous training and why you as a pilot do as they tel you - because they are all untrained idiots.

Sorry - I now don't believe anything you say - I don't believe you are a pilot at all - I think you are a wannabe, come here to metabunk to make a name for yourself back in some forum where you are going to boast that "they couldn't debunk me on metabunk".

Byeee......
 
And how do you know the stress these guys were under? Have you ever hijacked a plane? You're making too many "assumptions" based on how you would've handled the situation..
These guys, according to their beliefs, were about to go straight to Heaven and be rewarded after doing a great service for Allah. They weren't necessarily stressed out by the time they were aiming the aircraft at the towers. They very well could have been at total peace, and extremely focused.

EDIT: Agreeing with your post, Jason, not arguing...
 

captfitch

Senior Member.
Maple... You keep mentioning profiles... Yes, one of the most challenging aspects of professional flying is vertical planning for both altitude and speed. BUT- these guys had only ONE altitude to cross and absolutely NO speed restrictions. Any monkey can make an altitude cross with enough distance to work with. And they certainly weren't trying to "go down and slow down" which is the more common problem with planning. Plus you fly a 73- which is one of the more slippery Boeing products so your frame of reference is slightly skewed.
 

jaydeehess

Senior Member.
1300 foot tall, 200 foot wide "needles"
The north tower was pretty much a straight line approach.
The south tower approach was aided by the fact of the huge smoke column from a burning tower 1 making the area easy to find visually.

The Pentagon is a uniquely shaped, enormous office structure laying alongside a major waterway and within a few thousand feet of a published VOR.

BTW its spelled "descent".
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
wow 600 hours , thats a lot of time..... no disrespect but I have over 9000 hours and could not do what they did on the first attempt with the stress of the day, about to kill yourself ect ect ect.

Wrong.

HOW MANY HOURS DO YOU HAVE IN AN ACTUAL FULL-MOTION Simulator?

I mean, one that is specifically designed to train airline pilots?

Please, once you have the experience in these, then by all means feel free to come back and share.

We'd all love to hear about your "adventure".

BTW....this short YouTube video shows a VERY inexperienced NON-pilot:


(SOME might think that I have posted this before (I HAVE!!) and "some" might think it's
"off-topic" (It's not).

To help add some context....Ricky Martin is celebrity, used IN this short Promo to encourage people to come BUY the product.

WHICH IS? A multi-pound (or, muliti-dollar) simulator experience.

OK....NOW....what we see in the video is a guy with NO PREVIOUS AIRLINER EXPERIENCE able to, with a little coaching, fly an airliner.

fThere are MULTIPLE LEVELS or flight experience than can be exhibited. I know this, as a former Flight Instructor.
 

jaydeehess

Senior Member.
Here we go , because this did happen because I was told so. All I am asking is any pilot in here that thinks its possible go show us. Imagine the fame on you tube, you would go viral, pilot did 911 profile on first attempt. A good summation was this, find a MR lube, open both doors, hop in a big truck you have have never driven and on your first attempt, drive it at 120 mph through both sets of doors without slowing down and without hitting the walls.
What you write is often referred to as the Texas Sharpshooter Logical Fallacy.
It really did not matter if they hit perfectly. In fact they didn't for that matter, with flight 175 almost not making it. The towers were almost twice the width of the aircraft wingspan , so a better analogy would be to find a warehouse with a 30 foot wide door to drive that truck through.
 

jaydeehess

Senior Member.
The hijacker pilots did not have to go through the complexity of a take off or a landing. No wheels , no flaps, no spoilers, no speed concerns. For navigation a compass and the position of the sun will get one pointed in the general direction until such time as you set the VOR. From 50 miles out you'd see the twins above the Manhattan skyline and line up for the north tower/ second flight in sees the smoke from 50 miles out and keeps it in sight as it turns to line up over New Jersey.
Flight 77 heads for D.C. , the VOR tuned in. Pilot doesn't see the Pentagon until he's too close and does a 270 degree three minute turn again as soon as the building is in sight instruments don't matter.

Good pilots? No, in fact Hanjour was sawing away on the column but as long as he has the Pentagon in the front window he's going to hit it. Again though he almost crashed short. Its possible he intended to hit an inner wall of the courtyard and messed up. More probably he was aiming for a mid point in the height of the structure and was off by 30+ feet.
 

jaydeehess

Senior Member.
Well if a pop singer can take off and land with minimal coaching , I believe its quite possible for guys with ground school and some hours in the left hand seat can hit targets twice the width of the aircraft.
After all how many runways are 200 feet wide?
Hell even UA232 , with no hydraulics, no control surface ability, and at 70 knots over normal landing speed, managed to line up with the runway in Sioux City. Missing the runway wasn't what caused it to somersault down the runway.
 

Keith Beachy

Senior Member
Again, without calling me a truther or whatever term of the day is in fashion, I have made a simple request to any pilot who thinks its possible, GO PROVE IT. How much easier then that does it get. [...]
It is easier to crash than land, thus you have already proved it, unless your first flight in the 737 you were unable to land properly, on speed, on course, proper attitude, wings level?

I flew KC-135s; on my first flight in the KC, I landed exactly on course, on speed, proper attitude, wings level. Thus I have done better than pilots who had more time than I did. First time in a heavy jet, perfect landing. First time in the jet next to my wife, the T-38, on course, on speed, and I could impact the runway numbers first flight.
First flight in a C-150, harder to fly than a 757/767, I was on centerline, on speed.
I have no idea why poor pilots who actually passed FAA checkrides can't crash into the largest office buildings in the world, first time, at a rate of 75 percent, when I, a simple kid from PA raised in Atlanta can do it every single time, I could have crashed or landed on the runway, very close to the centerline, even with 25 knot crosswinds, one time out of limits, but within my limits since I am here, and the plane survived, the KC.

My kids could fly a 767/757 into the WTC towers, without training, but then they can walk, talk, chew gum and text at the same time, faster than I can type.

I took kids with no flight training into heavy jet simulators and they landed first time on center-line.

Flight 77's FDR shows Hani was a poor pilot, he had no real airspeed control, no stable bank angle, and arrived in DC too high; he had to do what we all might have to do (not me, my KC-135 could get nearly 15,000 feet per minute down in an emergency decent, but I do have an ATP, and I took over 15 equal ATP checks in the USAF) a 360 to get down; or are you a pilot who says he should do what we never do, dump the nose and try to hit the Pentagon as some steep decent, more than 6 to 10 degrees down.

Hani almost missed, and was in a pio, up to 2.3gs.

Did you study the FDR for 77, or 93? Did you check the Radar data?

I flew in the USAF, T-37, T-38, KC-135, and I finished flying prop planes for the USAF, C-172, etc as liaison officer to the CAP; flying prop planes is harder than jets; I have taken the equal to an ATP check in single engine prop planes, and took my ATP in a light twin; they were harder checks than the KC, and the 757/767 fly better than the KC.

I think the terrorists wasted time learning to fly, an American kid could fly as good as the terrorists without training; I understand why they got training. They also rented large jet simulators, which would be more than enough practice for hitting large targets you can see from 100 miles away. I could do 911 with a 767 with no VOR, just a compass, things even the terrorists were suppose to learn to fly. But the terrorist cheated, they got manuals for the 767/757, and they may of used the VOR, and guess what any student pilot can do with less than 40 hours; home to the VOR, see needle, turn to needle, fly to needle. I can't believe a pilot can't understand how easy it is to fly and hit the largest office buildings on earth - ego? I know one of the best student pilots I flew with, he quit because he thought flying was like driving a bus, and he was right - don't let our Type-A personality for flying get in the way of the fact anyone can fly as good as we can, and the terrorists pilots were over qualified to fly poorly and crash.

Anyone could do what the terrorists did; don't tell anyone flying is easy, jets are easier.


From 77's FDR, turn/bank from the airline pilot, vs, Hani, the terrorist pilot; Hani sucked, but he was bad enough to hit a 900 foot wide office building. Did you study the FDR for 77 and 93 before you made up your mind and think it was impossible, what we did right the first time ever, even poor pilots can hit the runway, might not pass the check, or finish the landing, but they can line up, even if they wash out.
 
Last edited:

Jazzy

Closed Account
we are talking about guys who could barely fly
Who told you THAT?

and somehow figure out
Could YOU do it?

Make a control input and wait for the aircraft to respond, what happens is over controlling and anyone who has flown an airliner knows what I am talking about
Anyone who has steered a boat knows this too. You soon get used to it.

they did have to get the profile absolutely perfect
You don't have to get so much perfection for a crash. Just one dimension instead of three.

do it ON THE FIRST ATTEMPT
Who told you THAT?
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
I believe our latest contributor has "left the building"....

....After asserting some flight experience of "about 9,000 hours". When I was at that level of experience I kept meticulous records.

Of course, once getting hired at an airline, then that "meticulism" (sp? lol....a "new" word?) lapsed. The airline had the record-keeping documentation for me, and it was just adding into my LogBook on a monthly basis the aggregate.

I AM puzzled though, that a person claiming to have that many hours (and WITH a claim of B-737 experience) would then question the events of 9/11, specifically the (apparent) "difficulty" of hitting a large building with an airplane. It just is NOT that hard!! (Not that I've done it.....well, in a simulator yes...else I wouldn't be typing now, I'd be in the history books.....).
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
9,000 hours? I'm no pilot, but that seems like a lot of hours. A WHOLE lot. Am I wrong, pilots?

No, I have over 20,000.

I had 5,700 when I was hired at Continental (at age 27).

There are some who "embellish" (if you will....we used to call it "P-51" time. The "P" stood for "Parker"...as in the pen brand-name).
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
There are some who "embellish" (if you will....we used to call it "P-51" time. The "P" stood for "Parker"...as in the pen brand-name).

Or F4 hours(Phantom hours).

9000 hours may be a lot. It depends on the age and type of flying. I have over twice that but that is just average for someone of my age who is employed as a professional pilot.
 

jaydeehess

Senior Member.
http://www.911myths.com/Another_Expert.pdf

None of the buildings were small to hit. they were very large objects in a skyline with no other buildings in the way, from the approaches they took and hit.
This is why in the speculation of what the target of flight 93 was , I tend to believe that it was the Capitol Building. Its huge, a large domed structure, and lines up with the Lincoln Memorial and the reflecting pool. By comparison, the Whitehouse is surrounded by treed areas and is dwarfed in sized by the Capitol.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
Its huge, a large domed structure, and lines up with the Lincoln Memorial and the reflecting pool.

Yes, indeed. A photo shows clearly what a tempting "target" it would have made for the hijackers:



This view is looking West. That's Pennsylvania Avenue angling away from the Capitol Building, to the right. The WH is approximately inline with the Washington Monument, North of it. (Not in the image, but you can see the surrounding buildings would lead to confusion, from altitude).

The Washington Mall provides a clear pathway (after missing the Washington Monument, of course). Also, Congress would have been in session...I do not recall exactly when they began to evacuate the Building, IIRC it was shortly after the Pentagon impact.

Recall that at the time I was at home, and my house was just under three miles from the Pentagon.
 

jaydeehess

Senior Member.
Oh I'm not even saying one would fly the Lincoln memorial/mall path, just that it, and in your photo, major roadways, simply highlights the location of the Capitol. An airport sized neon sign could not point to it better. 93 could have entered the area on the same flight path as 77 and easily made the hit. Though more likely it would have come in from the direction Pennsylvania Ave. runs.
 

Ron J

Active Member
wow 600 hours , thats a lot of time..... no disrespect but I have over 9000 hours and could not do what they did on the first attempt with the stress of the day, about to kill yourself ect ect ect.

Its not about the money my friend, any airline pilot can afford an hours sim time, I dont because I know I could not do it. So anyone who thinks it is possible on the day , get hand in pocket and prove it, other wise all this summation of what is possible and what is not is useless. If anyone thinks it is prove it, its quite easy!!! But no one is willing too, do you know why, because they cant!

Regarding does not fit the known facts, 7 of the hi jackers are alive and well, 2 at least are airline pilots alive and well in different parts of the world. That does not fit any profile of what we were told

Let me tell you about a commercial pilots licence, its just above a private pilots licence , requires 250 hours, some instrument training a 300 nm cross country on a nice day on a route you probably have done with your instructor. But remember they had 250 hours to practice the big day to get the commercial licence. No one that flies a transport category aircraft has a commercial licence we have airline transport licences, which is 1500 hours minimum and that still may not mean you have any jet time, you may have been tootling around in a King Air 200. We are talking a huge difference between a commercially licensed pilot and someone who has experience on a heavy transport jet with glass cockpit


9,000 hours and you could not do what they did? How many times have i heard that one?

Atta flew straight in on One World Trade. What flight 175 did was not all that difficult either. The most difficult maneuver was The Pentagon. The fact that The Pentagon flight landed as it did, is actually indication that a professional pilot was not flying the plane.

None of the hijackers are alive and well. Everyone on all 4 jetliners died.

The hijackers were religious zealots. They were all planning to die as martyrs. So what stress level would they have had?
 

Bruno D.

Senior Member.
9,000 hours and you could not do what they did? How many times have i heard that one?

Atta flew straight in on One World Trade. What flight 175 did was not all that difficult either. The most difficult maneuver was The Pentagon. The fact that The Pentagon flight landed as it did, is actually indication that a professional pilot was not flying the plane.

None of the hijackers are alive and well. Everyone on all 4 jetliners died.

The hijackers were religious zealots. They were all planning to die as martyrs. So what stress level would they have had?

I would guess that they where experiencing euphoria instead of stress. Imagine that you are an Olympic athlete, let's say a 1000m runner, and you prepared for 4 long years to compete.

You are there, waiting for the start - you are tense, lots of stress
The race begins, you are in the 400s - focus, concentration
You are winning, 2s faster than the 2nd place - euphoria

Everything that you worked so hard for in the last 4 years is happening. I think stress would be the last thing they would be experiencing. Just a wild guess, of course. :)
 
Thread starter Related Articles Forum Replies Date
Fred259 WTC: Were the planes drones, how hard is flying a 767 into a building? 9/11 58
LorentzHall 1994 Nellis Test Range UFO (Sightings / Hard Copy) Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 10
T How hard is it to hit the the 9/11 targets? 9/11 9
Dan Wilson Cancer Cures: Why is Cancer so Hard to Treat? Health and Quackery 4
S Did NIST edit WTC building 7 footage? 9/11 4
Marc Powell Debunked: Government officials revealed having foreknowledge of Building 7’s collapse 9/11 58
Marc Powell Debunked: NIST computer simulation of Building 7 collapse is inaccurate 9/11 22
FatPhil Given a photo of a building, where was it taken from? Tools for Investigating and Debunking 1
Jesse3959 FE Debunked with water tube level - 187 foot building 21.2 miles away below eye level Flat Earth 0
Oystein Debunked: AE911T: CNBC Anchor Ron Insana claims Building 7 a Controlled Implosion 9/11 13
Joe Hill Debunked: "The North Face of Building 7 Was Pulled Inward" 9/11 66
Mick West Collapse of 12 Story Building in Miami Beach Current Events 3
Miss VocalCord São Paulo High Rise Fire and Collapse - Wilton Paes de Almeida Building Current Events 87
Jedo Debunked: WTC7 was the only building not on the WTC block that had a fire on 9/11 9/11 0
Leifer Bent Steel In Building Fires Conspiracy Theories 1
Mick West First Interstate Tower Fire - Comparison with WTC Towers and WTC7 9/11 5
Mick West Have You Actually READ the NIST Report on Building 7? 9/11 12
Mick West Explained: Two Suns at Sunset - Harrow, UK [Reflection Off Building] Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 19
Whitebeard Tehran Plasco Highrise Fire And Collapse - 9/11 WTC7, WTC1&2 Comparisons 9/11 84
NoParty Claim: Indigogo campaign to recreate 9/11 Plane Crash into Building 9/11 38
James Adams Rectangular building type objects on the surface of the moon [Like the Triangle] General Discussion 3
Mick West Debunked: WTC7 vs. Chechnya's Tallest Building Fire (Grozny-City Complex) 9/11 24
jomper WTC 7 (Building 7) General Discussion 0
Grieves BBC's Jane Standley Premature reporting of the collapse of WTC 7 (Building 7) 9/11 13
LogicAndSanity WTC 7 (Building 7) 9/11 1521
Mick West Building 7 Explained by Edward Current 9/11 2
jackprune What happens when a jet hits concrete at 500mph? This one turned to dust. General Discussion 17
Related Articles



























Related Articles

Top