2 more [some holistic] MD’s found dead, total 8

Leifer

Senior Member.
Anti-Vaxer, Erin Elizabeth has some blog-posts that are trending on the net.
Here's one title.....
"2 more MD’s (1 prominent holistic, & one of missing docs) found dead, bringing the total to 8"

As some of you know, It brought me no joy to be the one to break all of the stories on each doctor found within the span of about a month, starting with the beloved Dr. Bradstreet. He was the first, and was found dead on June 19th in a river with a gunshot wound to his chest. They did find a gun in the river nearby. He was from Florida. Many experts are questioning how he died. Then there was Dr. Hedendal who was found dead in his car on Father’s day. The same day Dr. Holt was found dead. Both were found on the East coast of Florida, both chiropractors and both fathers, both found dead on Father’s day. Then we had Dr. Teresa Sievers found murdered in her home here in Florida as well. Then Osteopath Lisa Riley found with a gunshot wound to her head with a gun next to her in S Georgia. Then shortly after (just days ago) was another East Coast Florida death, as Dr. Ron Schwartz MD was found murdered in his home. I tried to gently break all the stories, and never intended this to be a series that I wrote. . It’s been tough, but some leaders in the holistic community have encouraged me to continue to report as the truth must be known.
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Even though about half of these Dr's are not holistic - but conventional MD's......and she cleverly never mentions (in writing) that she is creating a connection. She stands-by this fact (her not suggesting a connection), but it is quite obvious she is implying it.
In fact, EVERY commenter on her blog, realizes her implication. Every repost/link to her blog articles also realizes it.

I believe she is simply clustering deaths, and randomly connecting dots to create a story.
 

Henk001

Senior Member.
Likewise you find on the blogosphere claims about "suspicious" deaths of astronomers to hide the discovery of Niburu. (I'm not joking). I don't know where to find the demografic statistics world wide, but I did once apply the dutch death statistics upon the roughly 10,000 astronomers in the world, to see what you should expect.
The statistics are 8254 deaths/million/year, 88% natural, 1,3% suicide, 7,3% alcohol,drugs, etc., 3% accidents,0,09% murdered. You may expect 80 dead astronomers a year, 10 of which non-natural. Of course this comparison is flawed on some points but it does give you an order of magnitude. Perhaps you could apply this to the MD's in the US.
 

Leifer

Senior Member.
Excerpt from an older post here...(mine)..
https://www.metabunk.org/untimely-deaths.t2117/#post-58493

If you flip a coin 100 times, surely you will get around 5 "heads in a row" at some point, maybe up to 10 in a row. Unless you are an expert at flipping a coin (and I don't know anyone who is), the more you flip it, the less "10 in a row" remains significant.
You get the point....it is a random event, with occasional repeats.....
....(snip)
Two years ago, 14 of the most respected computer/electronic industry pioneers died all in one year....Ken Olsen, Bob Pease, and Jim Williams, Jean Bartik, Dennis Ritchie, Paul Baran, Jacob Goldman, John McCarthy, John R. Opel , Ashawna Hailey, Nobutoshi Kihara, Robert Galvin, Charles Walton, and Steve Jobs.
I'll bet there were even more than that, important behind-the-scenes workers.

Now I could look-up all ways these people in the electronic/computer industry died that year, and make a list of those that did not die of "old age".
I could create a blog or submit an article somewhere and claim..."Isn't that weird ??....that in one year, all these people died from "questionable" causes ?"
I could start a conspiracy theory...and I guarantee it would spread on the internet.
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Leifer

Senior Member.
The statistics are 8254 deaths/million/year, 88% natural, 1,3% suicide, 7,3% alcohol,drugs, etc., 3% accidents,0,09% murdered. You may expect 80 dead astronomers a year, 10 of which non-natural. Of course this comparison is flawed on some points but it does give you an order of magnitude. Perhaps you could apply this to the MD's in the US.
I believe those stats could be used as a comparison.
I'll work on some numbers for "Doctors"....but if someone beats me to it, post predicted/past numbers here.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Then there was Dr. Hedendal who was found dead in his car on Father’s day.
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He was at a track meet or something with a bunch of friends. That's where he died. I dont want to post the link where his friends and family members are discussing it because it has personal information not related to his death, and is disrespectful. One friend who was doing the athletics with him said he didnt look well and is speculating about dehydration. None of them voiced anything in the realm of suspicion.
 

Leifer

Senior Member.
Here is an article from the Washington Post, describing the Bradstreet death investigation.
This was sent to me as proof there may have been foul-play.
If you only read the first two paragraphs, you might think so too.....but read on.....

"The mysterious death of a doctor who peddled autism ‘cures’ to thousands"
(Washington Post article)
Since his death, however, the conspiracy theories have begun to crumble as evidence has emerged linking Bradstreet to a shadowy online industry in unapproved medicine.

Bradstreet’s Internet postings tie him to an unlicensed medical factory that was recently shut down for producing potentially contaminated vials of a supposed wonder “cure” called GcMAF.
The day before his death, Bradstreet’s own clinic was raided by federal and state authorities searching for the same untested and unapproved “cure.”

And on the very day of his death, Swiss media reported that a clinic linked to Bradstreet had also been raided after five patients receiving GcMAF died.
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Spectrar Ghost

Senior Member.
Betcha the youngest patients had the best recovery rate. Because, y'know, 16mo is too early to reliably test for autism.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Related, the same fallacy in a different area:

A Cambridge Professor has made the astonishing claim that three scientists investigating the melting of Arctic ice may have been assassinated within the space of a few months.

Professor Peter Wadhams said he feared being labelled a “looney” over his suspicion that the deaths of the scientists were more than just an ‘extraordinary’ coincidence.

But he insisted the trio could have been murdered and hinted that the oil industry or else sinister government forces might be implicated.

The three scientists he identified - Seymour Laxon and Katherine Giles, both climate change scientists at University College London, and Tim Boyd of the Scottish Association for marine Science - all died within the space of a few months in early 2013.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ear...-have-been-assassinated-professor-claims.html
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[edit to use different source]
 

Psychic

Senior Member
The fathers-Father's Day connection is awesome imo ('... both were fathers, both were found on Father's Day').
 

Leifer

Senior Member.
Erin Elizabeth, Mercola's "other half" (let's say wife).....had been posting these death connections for months now.
To her credit, her blogs never actually stated a "connection" with the cluster.......in so-many words.

But her online following is more than willing to fill-in what she is really hinting at......and a reading of her responses in the comments section, reveals she is ever-so-open to these beliefs. Erin even helps spread these ideas on her FB page....

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Other sites have picked up on the idea, and posted more accusatory and conspiracy type writings.
Snopes now has an entry on the subject, mentioning some of the most popular articles regarding "holistic doctor deaths" 2015.
Erin Elizabeth now accuses Snopes of disinformation, and lying/fabrication. She made a video about this.
Let's see if her accusations of Snopes hold-up.
First, the video.....

Her problems with the Snopes article are....:
1) Snopes misquoted the area one doctor (MD Patrick Fitzpatrick) used to live in, or where he was "from".
2) She claims Snopes is accusing her as proposing "doctors all had connections with the feds", something she never claimed.

Although, despite her frustrations, a reading of the article reveals Snopes never linked HER writings to accusations, but specifically noted OTHER writings that contained accusations (other articles, from separate sites, not hers). The other sites mentioned in the Snopes article were FreeThoughtProject, and others. These were the sites pointed to for accusations, not hers.
Erin unfortunately seems to think the entire Snopes article is about her, but it's not.

The portion in Snopes that references her writings, stated this:

This portion of the (erin elizabeth) article referenced one of the five “holistic health doctors” who was found dead, as well as three nameless doctors who went “missing” in Mexico in circumstances seemingly related to each another only by date. No information was provided about what readers were supposed to infer from this information.
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Leifer

Senior Member.
Quick numbers.
Perhaps you could apply this to the MD's in the US.
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Can someone check my math (my worst topic in school)
(United States figures only...all number rounded.)

US Population 319,000,000 (318.9 million, rounded up)
Doctors of medicine in the US is about 1,000,000. (non-MD holistic practitioners likely not included)
...so 0.32% of the population are "doctors".

6775 people die everyday in the US (averaged).
0.32% of 6775 is 21.7
So on average, 21.7 doctors die every day in the United States.

If holistic (naturopath) practitioners were included, the combined number would be higher (for use in this topic). I have not found a reliable number for these type of practitioners, as some are registered, or licensed, or "self employed"......and this can vary from state-to-state.
 
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Leifer

Senior Member.
If we multiply the estimate of "21.7 doctors die every day", by one month, that would be 651 doctors die every 30 days.
Erin's timeline of noted deaths has spanned about 3 months.
I'm surprised she hasn't found more "coincidences".
 

Chew

Senior Member.
6775 people die everyday in the US (averaged).

But that includes people who die of the diseases of old age. In response to the 'astronomers are being murdered to stop them from talking about Planet X' myth still going around I once tabulated the death rate of the adult working population. 0.2% of the adult working population die every year from all causes, while 0.04% of the adult working population die from accidents.

But you're right: she should definitely have found more "coincidences".
 

Leifer

Senior Member.
But that includes people who die of the diseases of old age
Yes, all the stats I mentioned should be further broken-down to "causes of death" and "age"....but I was doing quick numbers.
Also to note...."employment as a doctor" usually means a doctor in practice, not retired and elderly.
She (Erin Elizabeth) can continually find "coincidences", and now she's on to Chiropractic deaths.
It can be a never-ending conspiracy, unless people realize the numbers and how any deaths are large and common/expected, even without hints of a conspiracy.
I'm nearly done debunking her.....she will continue, regardless of any such death number info.

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LouV

Member
More precise estimates on physician deaths discussed here, from actual studies :
http://thescientificparent.org/there-is-no-holistic-murder-conspiracy-afoot-seriously
"Including both MDs and DOs there are currently904,556 active primary care and specialist physicians in the US. Of those, approximately 400 will commit suicide each year. In fact, physicians kill themselves at a rate 70% higher than non-physicians. This sadly means that eight doctors commit suicide every week."

"It’s a bit harder to get statistics on physicians that are murdered each year for a number of reasons (publicity, visibility, nature of the crime, investigations, etc.). But we do know that over the span of a decade the average is that approximately 15 health care providers are killed in workplace shootings each year. That’s at least one murder a month."

And here :
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2...-and-the-apparent-suicide-of-an-autism-quack/
"While it’s true that doctors who kill themselves are indeed more than twice as likely to use self-poisoning with drugs or other substances than the general population, they’re actually just as likely to use firearms, even in a population that doesn’t have many guns. In the gun-rich US, firearms are the most common method of physician suicide, being the method of nearly half of physician suicides and only slightly less common than in the general population. So all the incredulous dismissals of the conclusion that Bradstreet killed himself based on the belief that Bradstreet couldn’t have possibly killed himself with a gun because he’s a doctor and doctors don’t kill themselves that way are complete nonsense based on misinformation about physician suicide."

[Edit]Deleted the studies URL since I saw that they are pasted with the text in this forum. [/Edit]
 
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Leifer

Senior Member.
Erin Elizabeth is still pursuing her "hollistic doctor heaths" series of her blogs (it's up to number 19, I believe)....despite widespread criticism that her stories are misguided.

Here is a pretty good debunk of this. It's 30 minutes long, but it is detailed, and has links in the description. He seems to take a fair look at the subject, even to consider that it IS a conspiracy, by trying to validate her theory.
 
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Bass In Your Face

Senior Member.
Just an update on this, Erin's body count is up to 80.

Article link: https://www.healthnutnews.com/80th-doctor-dead-holistic-prominent-and-outspoken/
Her recap article: https://www.healthnutnews.com/recap-on-my-unintended-series-the-holistic-doctor-deaths/


80th Doctor Dead: Holistic, Prominent and Outspoken
By Erin Elizabeth -

December 3, 2017
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(Note from Erin: To read the full series on all the doctors who have died, now at 80, you can click here. We’ve included a timeline, photos, sources, stories, and links.)

Update: Initially, Dr James Winer’s office staff would not say how he died. They publicly stated they didn’t want people calling the office asking questions, either.

Then our story came out.

Hours later, after they were inundated by many more inquiries, they said he died of cardiac arrest in another state. (We are told by his patients that he died here in Florida and that he was brought in as a John Doe after missing for days.) We are so sorry he died unexpectedly, but we want and will get answers; when he was allegedly missing, where he died (they won’t say Florida or even give a state to his grieving patients online), why he was allegedly brought in as a John Doe and what exactly happened in the interim.

Hundreds of his patients are demanding answers and stating that they want the whole story (apparently Dr Winer recently spoke about all the doctors who had died). Another patient (verified in Pittsburgh) posted (we have screenshots) that they were waiting to hear him lecture a few days ago and were told he was just stuck in traffic. However, it turns out he was really missing and is now dead.

Once we can confirm which county he died in, we’ll pull autopsy reports.

We realize it’s a lot for a staff to handle, but we have droves of patients writing us saying that they were told this by the staff and they want more answers as to what happened. So do we.

Dr Winer literally had thousands of fans on his Facebook page alone and thousands of daily listeners to his radio show in multiple states.

End of update.

It is with a heavy heart that I bring you the sad news of the death of self-described holistic doctor, James Winer, of Pittsburgh Pennsylvania (just minutes from where I used to live).

I have had patients writing me all day about the news but wanted to have a bit more information on the late great doc and outspoken radio show host before I shared this tragedy. (I waited over eleven hours after it was announced publicly.)

Thousands are in shock about the death of what I am told was a very (self-described) healthy man.

The circumstances of his death, however, remained shrouded in mystery.

One reader wrote to tell us the following:

“It appears he left on Tuesday for a trip with a friend or to meet up with someone for Thanksgiving and he never returned to Pittsburgh.

My friend and I messaged me (sic) on Saturday after Thanksgiving that he was missing and we were so afraid. Then today my (immediate family, name withheld) was at the office and they confirmed he was found yesterday as a John Doe in hospital and they pulled the plug. No ID on him. Nothing.

My (relative at his office- relation omitted) said that everything was out of ordinary, as he checks in, never misses etc. he was a loved doctor on Pitttsburgh and speaks out often against vaccines. “

While Dr Winer was 70 years old he looked much younger. His patients have told us he was a vegetarian for about 30.

Our heart goes out to his family and friends.

His office has asked that no one call them to ask what has happened. They will give updates, as they have them, on Dr Winer’s Facebook page.


His biography reads as follows:

Dr. James Winer is one of the leading pioneers in the natural health field.

For over forty-five years he has been on the cutting edge of the alternative health movement, serving in a wide variety of capacities.

  • Editor of the “Journal of Energy Medicine”
  • Associate Director of the Price-Pottenger Nutrition Research Foundation (a prestigious Foundation founded by two giants in the nutrition field, Dr. Weston Price, DDS and Dr. Francis Pottenger, Jr., MD)
  • Education Director of the Hippocrates Health Institute in San Diego (a residential health center founded by Dr. Ann Wigmore)
  • Director of the National Health Project
  • Convention Director of the National Health Federation
He is also the author of books, audio, and videotapes, and articles on natural health, instructor of nutrition at a university, fitness instructor at an undergraduate college, and currently the founder and director of the Winer Wellness Center in Pittsburgh, PA.

Dr. Winer has traveled throughout the world studying and teaching natural health principles. While living in France, he attended the University of Paris.

He graduated Magna Cum Laude from Brandeis University and graduated valedictorian of his class at Life University, where he received his doctorate summa cum laude.

In addition to teaching and lecturing across the United States, Dr. Winer has appeared on thousands of radio and television programs in Pittsburgh, PA and across the country.

Dr Winer currently hosts over thirty-one weekly radio shows in the western Pennsylvania, northern West Virginia, and eastern Ohio tri-state area.

He is dedicated to sharing his wealth of knowledge, understanding, insight, diagnostic methods and abilities with his patients and all who are open to helping themselves with the latest advances in natural healing.

There are few, if any, in the field of Alternative Medicine in this country with his vast knowledge, experience, aptitude or with his sincere and ethical commitment to helping others.


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deirdre

Senior Member.
Just an update on this, Erin's body count is up to 80.




Winer Wellness Center
· Yesterday at 11:55am ·


There has been much speculation and rumors about Dr. Winer's death.

Dr. Winer had a long family history of cardiac disease.

He suffered cardiac arrest while he was away and they could not resuscitate him and he died in the hospital.

His family and friends ask that you respect his privacy.

We all miss him dearly and thank you for your prayers

https://www.facebook.com/WinerWellnessCenter/posts/1498883793558856
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Heredity is a powerful factor in one's lifespan and Dr. Winer often mentioned how he had beaten the odds by living far longer than others in his family.

https://www.facebook.com/WinerWellnessCenter/posts/1498883793558856?comment_id=1499518073495428&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R7%22%7D
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