1. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  2. hemi

    hemi Active Member

  3. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    How can you tell the paris sky isn't natural (not plane induced) cloud cover?
     
  4. FreiZeitGeist

    FreiZeitGeist Senior Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
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  5. Mumbles

    Mumbles Active Member

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  6. toasterhead

    toasterhead New Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 15, 2013
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  7. M Bornong

    M Bornong Senior Member

    Circa 1435, probably the earliest known depiction of "Chem-Trails" :)

    gedlaman.
    From the book "The Soul of all Scenery: A History of the Sky in Art" by Stan Gezleman
    http://www.sci.ccny.cuny.edu/~stan/skyart.html

    I just ran across this book today, looks like an interesting read.
     
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  8. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

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  9. SR1419

    SR1419 Senior Member

  10. Tea I Look Rum

    Tea I Look Rum New Member

    The Department of Defense started using "cirrus shields," aka chemtrails, during the Vietnam War to make high altitude reconnaissance and special operations aircraft undetectable by ground observation. The idea that persistent contrails only appeared after 1995, and, therefore, photos of these trails pre-1995 prove they are only water vapor trails from jet aircraft is a fallacy I would expect to find in a forum run by someone without a science or military background.

    Additionally, many of the photos posted have captured cirrus fibratus clouds, which are easily mistaken for contrails by the untrained eye, and contain neither contrails nor chemtrails.

    What is especially ridiculous is to think the readers of this forum won't realize that an actual contrail made by a jet aircraft traveling 6-7 miles per minute during the 1960s is incapable of producing a very long trail in a photo that took only a fraction of a second to capture.

    Also, the southwest, where most movies were filmed, is more arid than locations in the mid-west or east, causing the air above to be cold enough to sustain visible water vapor trails much longer than usual.
     
  11. Mattnik

    Mattnik Moderator

    I would like to see the info about these "cirrus shields", please.

    It is worth noting that the 1995 date is addressed specifically as it's a claim regularly made by proponents of chemtrails.
     
  12. cloudspotter

    cloudspotter Senior Member

    You mean you don't believe a plane could leave a trail that long? How long do you think they should last?
     
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  13. Ross Marsden

    Ross Marsden Senior Member

    This is interesting.
    Can you explain why you thing aridity at ground level causes the air at cruise altitude to "be cold enough"? Do you mean colder than above non-arid regions.
    Also can you explain why cold air would would cause contrails to persist longer?

    These questions also relate to the one that cloudspotter asked in the post just above here.
     
  14. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    The Chemtrail Believers are most often the ones insisting that persistent contrails only appears after 1995 (or often a more recent year). Hence this thread.
     
  15. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    Chemtrail Beleivers often point at various cloud types and insist that those cloud types are unnatural and that they did not exist before XXXX year. Hence the presence of photos of those cloud types in this thread. No confusion of natural cirrus and contrails needed.

    So here you tell us that trails wouldn't persist behind a jet during the 1960s long enough to show up in a photograph.

    Now in the very next sentence you tell us that conditions were special in the west such that trails did persist. Seems to be a contradiction.
     
  16. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    1957:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
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  17. CbIncus

    CbIncus Member

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  18. Mumbles

    Mumbles Active Member


    Good find, and another useful link for the "only post-war jets make contrails" types. While the page is dated 1946, the images are almost certainly from a few years earlier. The Spitfire appears to be one of the earlier merlin engined Photo Reconaissance versions (maybe a PR.VII?) from pre-1944, and the markings on the Marauder are also suggestive of an earlier era (the RAF ones likely all being scrapped by 1946 anyway). The Marauder is interesting in that I haven't often seen visible wing-tip vortices from aircraft of that era in level flight.
     
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  19. M Bornong

    M Bornong Senior Member

  20. Joe

    Joe Senior Member

    IM not sure how to post a screen shot of this old Twilight Zone from the early sixties @ 50 minutes pans toward the sky looks like persistent contrails ?
     
  21. Landru

    Landru Moderator Staff Member

    Rod Serling's statement, "prove it isn't true," would have carried no ice here. The 'I Dream of Jeanie' thing was funny though.
     
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  22. JFDee

    JFDee Senior Member

    I suppose you mean this:

    twilight_zone_still.
     
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  23. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    I'm looking for good stills or video of older examples of contrail pendules.
     
  24. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  25. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    THis WWII photo was new to me:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/dougsheley/4319045821/sizes/l/
    [​IMG]

    Part of a great photoset:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/dougsheley/sets/72157607353942605/with/4312698101/

    Also:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/dougsheley/4289892356/in/set-72157607353942605/
    [​IMG]

    Interesting contrails here, almost as if the planes were either shot down, or otherwise went into very steep descent. [Edit: not actually contrails there, they are subsequently described as "target markers" or "release markers" - smoke bombs that either show where the bomb hit, or indicated following bomber where to release their bombs]
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/dougsheley/4291614047/in/set-72157607353942605/
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2013
  26. GregMc

    GregMc Senior Member

    Spotted this whilst searching the Memphis Belle links. Mission over Bremen:
     
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  27. derwoodii

    derwoodii Senior Member

    1944 er um really some explaining to do here by the chemmy mob

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  28. Balance

    Balance Senior Member

    I have had one chemmie rebuke claiming they've been doing this since 1930's. :rolleyes:
     
  29. Belfrey

    Belfrey Senior Member

    Last edited: Jan 27, 2014
    • Informative Informative x 1
  30. Mark Barrington

    Mark Barrington Active Member

    This other image from the same series also shows multiple contrails:

    [​IMG]

    I happen to have a copy of the American People's Encyclopedia from 1956, along with yearbooks from 56-71 and found a few pictures of contrails in there. The reproduction quality isn't great, but if I get a chance I'll scan them in. Since I've had these books in my possession since the early 80s, there's no question of the images being faked.

    The A.P.E. had a deal, if you bought the encyclopedia, you got a coffee table to store them in, so I found the coffee table at a garage sale and bought it, books included. The books are pretty musty, but they're interesting to look at.
     
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  31. Mark Barrington

    Mark Barrington Active Member

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  32. Buildy

    Buildy Member

  33. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    That might just be clouds, it's hard to tell. Here's an enhanced version:
    [​IMG]
     
  34. Buildy

    Buildy Member

    I agree. Thanks for the enhancement.
     
  35. Buildy

    Buildy Member

  36. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Basically you can post it if you think it's Fair Use. If the copyright holder requests, then I'll remove it. I've only had a handful of complains in the last three years.
     
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  37. Mark Barrington

    Mark Barrington Active Member

    Anything from a magazine or other publication is most likely fair use. I posted a link above from a stock photo agency instead of the image because the stock photo agencies tend to be pretty aggressive about making people pay to use their images. Almost any other source is fairly safe.
     
  38. Buildy

    Buildy Member

    Municipal Stadium, Kansas City, MO. Demolished 1976.
    09e305501af469170a1856a8d9d94a0e.

    I must say, as both a contrail and baseball geek, I'm enjoying this hunting of images! :)
     
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  39. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    you do realize that all of these old images have actually been doctored to insert chemtrails in order to desensitize us don't you??



    See also this metabunk thread which starts with that video.

    LOOK UP!

    ;)
     
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  40. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member