USA's NSA Funding UK's GCHQ

[Oxymoron]

It appears the ubiquitous NSA has been funding Britain's surveillance centre GCHQ for the past 3 years and pretty much cracking the whip with it. No wonder the U.S thinks it can do what it wants. Britain is being treated like the 51st State. It is sickening.

http://readersupportednews.org/news...en-documents-nsa-pays-secret-funding-for-gchq

he US government has paid at least £100m to the UK spy agency GCHQ over the last three years to secure access to and influence over Britain's intelligence gathering programmes.

The top secret payments are set out in documents which make clear that the Americans expect a return on the investment, and that GCHQ has to work hard to meet their demands. "GCHQ must pull its weight and be seen to pull its weight," a GCHQ strategy briefing said.

The funding underlines the closeness of the relationship between GCHQ and its US equivalent, the National Security Agency. But it will raise fears about the hold Washington has over the UK's biggest and most important intelligence agency, and whether Britain's dependency on the NSA has become too great.

Content from External Source

 

[David Fraser]

Actually I think it is an astute move. I have no idea the budget allocation for GCHQ but £100 million over 3 years seems a drop in the ocean given nearly 6,000 staff. After all even the Met Office charges for access to most of its data.

Ironically GCHQ was a career option for me when I was leaving school due to been taught radio skills and Morse code.

 

[Oxymoron]

Actually I think it is an astute move. I have no idea the budget allocation for GCHQ but £100 million over 3 years seems a drop in the ocean given nearly 6,000 staff. After all even the Met Office charges for access to most of its data.

Ironically GCHQ was a career option for me when I was leaving school due to been taught radio skills and Morse code.

Some staff at GCHQ do not agree and are very worried by the level of deception and the level of control the NSA demand for their bucks. So GCHQ working for the NSA is not a problem to you? It is not a question of 'cooperation', it is a question of the NSA controlling GCHQ and spying on the British public by proxy.

I suggest you watch RT if you want to get any decent insight on it. What an embarrassment.

Also I would expect the American public not to be too enthralled at the expense, after all millions living in tent cities and the Country's infrastructure falling around it' ears with cities filing for bankruptcy... but no I guess they are used to it and won't complain, after all the Military Industrial Complex is a huge employer so its good for the country really.

http://rt.com/news/nsa-pay-british-spy-agency-910/

 

[David Fraser]

Some staff at GCHQ do not agree and are very worried by the level of deception and the level of control the NSA demand for their bucks. So GCHQ working for the NSA is not a problem to you? It is not a question of 'cooperation', it is a question of the NSA controlling GCHQ and spying on the British public by proxy.

I suggest you watch RT if you want to get any decent insight on it. What an embarrassment.

Also I would expect the American public not to be too enthralled at the expense, after all millions living in tent cities and the Country's infrastructure falling around it' ears with cities filing for bankruptcy... but no I guess they are used to it and won't complain, after all the Military Industrial Complex is a huge employer so its good for the country really.

http://rt.com/news/nsa-pay-british-spy-agency-910/

You always seem to try to divert the argument to something else in your posts. Lets stick with GCHQ. Are they tasked purely with spying on UK citizens? No. Have you seen the size if the place and the radio network they possess? They have always been a major player in intelligence gathering within Europe. Where is the outcry about sharing information with the French, who probably pay for it.

 

[Oxymoron]

You always seem to try to divert the argument to something else in your posts. Lets stick with GCHQ. Are they tasked purely with spying on UK citizens? No. Have you seen the size if the place and the radio network they possess? They have always been a major player in intelligence gathering within Europe. Where is the outcry about sharing information with the French, who probably pay for it.

Did you watch the RT video? I think it is a question of 'our national security' being bought or subverted by the NSA. They have no right to bug our phones and email etc by proxy through the sellout of our security services. Some people will continue to deny Big Brother even when they are in room 101.

 

[Joe Newman]

I think it is a question of 'our national security' being bought or subverted by the NSA. They have no right to bug our phones and email etc by proxy through the sellout of our security services.

Ok, but what do rights have to do with Keeping Us Safe? If that demands Keeping You Safe as well, then I don't see your point. A little bit of gratitude goes a long way, and here you are bitching about rights.

 

[Oxymoron]

Ok, but what do rights have to do with Keeping Us Safe? If that demands Keeping You Safe as well, then I don't see your point. A little bit of gratitude goes a long way, and here you are bitching about rights.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

The point is the, the terrorists have won completely when they instill terror and/or cause the change of the fabric of the targeted society.

Also, I depend on my County's security forces to keep my Country safe. Yes, I expect them to cooperate with allies when so doing but what I do not expect and what I do not accept is the complete subjugation/selling out of my Country's Intelligence Services to a foreign Country, be they ally or not.

And never mind about the NSA watching the likes of me... we are watching the NSA and will be actively fighting back.

 

[Jay Reynolds]

And never mind about the NSA watching the likes of me... we are watching the NSA and will be actively fighting back.

And what have you done so far? *itch on a message board

 

[Oxymoron]

And what have you done so far? *itch on a message board

And how do you know what I have done and have not done? I do not disclose all my actions to you but rest assured I will not sit idly by.

 

[Jay Reynolds]

And how do you know what I have done and have not done? I do not disclose all my actions to you but rest assured I will not sit idly by.

Prove it.

 

[Mick West]

Homeless discussion moved to:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/the-degree-of-homelessness-in-the-us.2120/

Retitling thread for neutrality.

 

[Oxymoron]

Prove it.

Why?

 

[Mick West]

Why indeed. Oxy's personal actions are irrelevant.

 

[Jay Reynolds]

And how do you know what I have done and have not done? I do not disclose all my actions to you but rest assured I will not sit idly by.

Prove it.

Why indeed. Oxy's personal actions are irrelevant.

He made two claims:
1. "we are watching the NSA and will be actively fighting back"
2. "I will not sit idly by"

I am content to wait for evidence to back up those claims, but I don't expect to ever see any.

 

[Oxymoron]

Prove it.


He made two claims:
1. "we are watching the NSA and will be actively fighting back"
2. "I will not sit idly by"

I am content to wait for evidence to back up those claims, but I don't expect to ever see any.

And why should you? Is it any of your business? No. I am hardly likely to complain about the NSA spying on people's personal business and then be answerable to you. Who the hell are you anyway?

Sounds like some dumb FBI entrapment ploy AFAICS... [...]

(ADMIN NOTE: Politeness edit)

 

[SR1419]

what I do not accept is the complete subjugation/selling out of my Country's Intelligence Services to a foreign Country, be they ally or not.

But thats not at all what has happened. Thats simply more bitter inaccurate hyperbole from you. The $$ from the US was miniscule compared to their overall budget, they still retained autonomy and they were more likely to be sharing info on US citizens than UK citizens.

...the sums represent only a small percentage of the agencies' budgets..

Asked about the payments, a Cabinet Office spokesman said: "In a 60-year alliance it is entirely unsurprising that there are joint projects in which resources and expertise are pooled, but the benefits flow in both directions."

A senior security source in Whitehall added: "The fact is there is a close intelligence relationship between the UK and US and a number of other countries including Australia and Canada. There's no automaticity, not everything is shared. A sentient human being takes decisions."

Content from External Source

 

[Jay Reynolds]

. Who the hell are you anyway?

OK with me is you want to make baseless claims, Oxy.
Who I am doesn't have anything to do with the baselessness of your claims, but check your PM, I've sent you my resume.

 

[Oxymoron]

OK with me is you want to make baseless claims, Oxy.
Who I am doesn't have anything to do with the baselessness of your claims, but check your PM, I've sent you my resume.

You really shouldn't have bothered. I meant 'who are you to question me about my personal activities', not who are you per se. Not that a CV proves anything one way or the other or has any bearing on the conversation/debate

 

[Jay Reynolds]

You really shouldn't have bothered. I meant 'who are you to question me about my personal activities', not who are you per se. Not that a CV proves anything one way or the other or has any bearing on the conversation/debate

If you don't want anyone to ask for evidence backing up your claims, perhaps you should refrain from making them. If you ask me who I am, I will tell you.

 

[Oxymoron]

If you don't want anyone to ask for evidence backing up your claims, perhaps you should refrain from making them. If you ask me who I am, I will tell you.

So what do you want... Name?, DOB? NI No, address? email password? Lineage? Photo's? Birth certificate? Bank accounts? What I had for breakfast? Who I talk to? Phone logs? Medical records... Mmmm, sounds like NSA

Can you prove who you are ? Why should I believe an irrelevant CV that you can knock up in 20mins as 'evidence', (I think not), of anything. Argo?

What has it got to do with the NSA illegally spying on everyone anyway, especially outside the U.S?

It seems to me, you are the type of person who would deny anything is wrong with the system however draconian it was. You sound like a paid shill/agent provocateur for the NSA/banksters/multinationals... especially Monstranto. I have never heard of 'an organic farmer who uses roundup and spends hours promoting GM 'products'. Didn't notice any of that on your cv.

Obama says, "I think it's great we are having this discussion"... Lol, The 'discussion' is only happening because of Snowden & co. What do they want to do to Snowden? Incongruous or what? Doesn't sound to happy about it to me... but it must be true because ... well he wouldn't lie would he?

 

[Jay Reynolds]

So what do you want...

What I wanted you have already given to me.

 

[Oxymoron]

What I wanted you have already given to me.

Well in that case, you are welcome. If you want any more of it, you only have to ask.

 

[Jay Reynolds]

Well in that case, you are welcome. If you want any more of it, you only have to ask.

 

[Oxymoron]

Which means what to you?

 

[Jay Reynolds]

Guess?

 

[Oxymoron]

Guess?

No idea. Pointless you posting a multi ambiguous video without having the nerve to say why. PM me with it if you are too shy.

 

[Oxymoron]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/10/william-hague-spying-scandal-nsa-statement

"It has been suggested GCHQ uses our partnership with the United States to get around UK law, obtaining information that they cannot legally obtain in the UK. I wish to be absolutely clear that this accusation is baseless. Any data obtained by us from the US involving UK nationals is subject to proper UK statutory controls and safeguards."

Content from External Source

William Hague

This is the nub of the issue and the foreign secretary's statement seems to mask a much more complex picture. If a UK agency wanted to tap the phone of a Briton living in the UK, it would have to get ministerial approval through RIPA. But not all telecoms and internet companies are based in the UK – most of the giants have their headquarters in the US. This is where the UK's relationship with the NSA is critical. If the firm storing the required information is outside RIPA's authority, GCHQ could ask the NSA for help.

And if the NSA had any relevant intelligence, via Prism or any other programme, it could give it to GCHQ. Strictly speaking, GCHQ would still have needed a RIPA authorisation if it was requesting this material. But if the NSA was offering, the same principles don't appear to apply.

Matthew Ryder QC said: "It is not the breaking of laws that is most troubling in this area, but the absence of them. Foreigners storing their personal data on US servers have neither the protection that their own domestic laws would give them from their own governments, nor the protection that US citizens have from the US government. It is foreigners, potentially UK citizens in the UK, who are the targets of programmes like Prism.

"Once such data is in the hands of the US authorities, there is no clear legal framework that prevents it from being shared with UK authorities. The Security Service Act 1989 and the Intelligence Services Act 1994 place MI5, MI6 and GCHQ on a statutory basis, and permit those bodies to receive any information from foreign agencies in the 'proper discharge' of their statutory functions.

"Under that broad principle, UK agencies may receive and examine data from the US about UK citizens without having to comply with any of the legal requirements they would have to meet if the same agencies had tried to gather that information themselves."

Content from External Source