The degree of Homelessness in the US

SR1419

Senior Member.
Is there something wrong with your computer? Is it set to 'Don't show anything bad about the U.S' mode? or perhaps it has been filtered by the NSA?


Is there something wrong with your ability to tell the truth?

from the article you provided as a source for your claim:

I know the US has a lot of homeless- I live in an area of one of the largest populations...

But "millions living in tent cities" is simply an outright lie.

Can you explain why you chose to lie?
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
Is there something wrong with your ability to tell the truth?

from the article you provided as a source for your claim:

I know the US has a lot of homeless- I live in an area of one of the largest populations...

But "millions living in tent cities" is simply an outright lie.

Can you explain why you chose to lie?

Lying is a strong word. You may want to reconsider. Even if it was not factual... trust you to go for the worst case scenario... I mean it couldn't possibly be a mistake could it.

But I suppose it depends where you look. 3.5 million homeless in a given year seems a bit more than 300 or even 5000 however you cut it. I just picked the first link off the top. Was I 'lying' about U.S Cities filing for bankruptcy (or attempting to) and the infrastructure falling down around your ears even whilst American missiles (Hellfire $58,000.00 each) devastate other Country's infrastructures and create poverty, birth defects, cancers and homelessness.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/1...eration-tent-cities-nationwide/#ixzz2ar0RBTtk
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
Lying is a strong word. You may want to reconsider. Even if it was not factual... trust you to go for the worst case scenario... I mean it couldn't possibly be a mistake could it.

But I suppose it depends where you look. 3.5 million homeless in a given year seems a bit more than 300 or even 5000 however you cut it. I just picked the first link off the top. Was I 'lying' about U.S Cities filing for bankruptcy (or attempting to) and the infrastructure falling down around your ears even whilst American missiles (Hellfire $58,000.00 each) devastate other Country's infrastructures and create poverty, birth defects, cancers and homelessness.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/1...eration-tent-cities-nationwide/#ixzz2ar0RBTtk

No- oxyMoron- I suggest You reconsider...you chose those words for a reason- why? propaganda no doubt.

The 3.5 million number can be easily misleading- that is referring to the number experiencing homelessness in a given year- which is not the same as the aggregate number at any given moment. The typical homeless person is homeless for an average of 70 days.

Some infrastructure is falling, some is brand new...its misdirection- so typical.

Regardless of your misdirection- the fact remains that you either lied, exaggerated extremely or simply made things up for the sake of propaganda...

and so it goes.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Where are these 'millions living in tent cities' in the US? They don't exist in the US. Even if one does some rounding up, that is still less than a quarter of million, not in shelters or staying with someone else


http://www.endhomelessness.org/library/entry/the-state-of-homelessness-2013

 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
No- oxyMoron- I suggest You reconsider...you chose those words for a reason- why? propaganda no doubt.

The 3.5 million number can be easily misleading- that is referring to the number experiencing homelessness in a given year- which is not the same as the aggregate number at any given moment. The typical homeless person is homeless for an average of 70 days.

Some infrastructure is falling, some is brand new...its misdirection- so typical.

Regardless of your misdirection- the fact remains that you either lied, exaggerated extremely or simply made things up for the sake of propaganda...

and so it goes.
You lie and subvert to your hearts content as usual... it doesn't change the facts. Much of your population is homeless, poverty stricken and your cities falling apart whilst your elite sit in their ivory towers plotting the best targets for their expensive military machine to destroy for their amusement and profit. They send out your youth, teach them to be psychopaths and do their bidding and when they are injured, mentally and physically, they are dumped on the scrap heap. Of course Cairenn is all for drugging and locking them up as well as she doesn't want them being a danger to her or speaking out about how angry they are at their treatment and deception.:rolleyes:

Simple arithmetic shows that 3.5 million per year divided by 365 = nearly 10,000 Americans made homeless per day... however much you want to propagandise it like you always do. Huh You carry on deluding yourself.

The truth will out.
 
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SR1419

Senior Member.
You lie and subvert to your hearts content as usual... it doesn't change the facts. Much of your population is homeless, poverty stricken and your cities falling apart whilst your elite sit in their ivory towers working out the best targets for their expensive military machine to destroy. They send out your youth, teach them to be psychopaths and do their bidding and when they are injured, mentally and physically, they are dumped on the scrap heap. Of course Cairenn is all for drugging and locking them up as well as she doesn't want them being a danger to her.:rolleyes:

Simple arithmetic shows that 3.5 million per year divided by 365 = nearly 10,000 Americans made homeless per day... however much you want to propagandise it like you always do. Huh You carry on deluding yourself.

Face it Oxy- you were caught lying and are now resorting to attacking to cover your ass. true colours I guess..
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
I hope the NSA keeps a close eye on people like you Oxy! No sarcasm either!
Oh excuse me for noticing that you have millions of homeless and your cities are bankrupt through your obsession with having a freakishly massive military. I didn't cause it... I merely noticed it and commented on it... 'and I am supposed to be the one that should be watched'? What about the ones who did it?:rolleyes:

Watch people who don't like a totalitarian state you mean... normal citizens you mean... I know full well they do and have done for years and so have you. All that's changed is you can no longer poo poo it as a conspiracy theory so now you 'threaten people' with it in an insane attempt to stifle dissent. Every American, every European, they have made it clear 'the public are the enemy'.
 
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Soulfly

Banned
Banned
Explaining what people like you means would violate the politeness policy.
 
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Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Oh excuse me for noticing that you have millions of homeless and your cities are bankrupt through your obsession with having a freakishly massive military.

Some cities are going bankrupt but that is because they spend more than they take in. Cities don't lose money when the military budget changes. Cities lose money when people move out and don't engage in taxable activity. US military spending has really no effect on cities going bankrupt.
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
On any given night, there are approximately 700,000 homeless people in the US.

Thats 0.23% of the population.
Ah that's a nice low looking figure isn't it. Good PR :)

So according to you, there are approx 700,000 homeless on any given night, (which is hardly anything to be complacent about), but does that take into account the people who are forced to sleep on friends and relatives couches or in shelters?

But let's go with that ... you have a population somewhere around 300,000,000 if I am not mistaken. Divide by 700,000 = 428 so 1 in roughly every 428 U.S citizens are homeless on any given night. Give yourselves a star.
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
Ah that's a nice low looking figure isn't it. Good PR :)

So according to you, there are approx 700,000 homeless on any given night, (which is hardly anything to be complacent about), but does that take into account the people who are forced to sleep on friends and relatives couches or in shelters?

But let's go with that ... you have a population somewhere around 300,000,000 if I am not mistaken. Divide by 700,000 = 428 so 1 in roughly every 428 U.S citizens are homeless on any given night. Give yourselves a star.


There are too many homeless in the US. (and yes, that number does take into account folks in shelters)

But thats not the point- is it Oxy? the point was you deliberately...er..."exaggerated" by a very large degree simply to bolster your propaganda.

Your claim was bunk. Pure and simple bunk.
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
There are too many homeless in the US. (and yes, that number does take into account folks in shelters)

But thats not the point- is it Oxy? the point was you deliberately...er..."exaggerated" by a very large degree simply to bolster your propaganda.

Your claim was bunk. Pure and simple bunk.
Look if you want to waste time being pedantic about semantics and post stupid schoolyard name calling like "No- oxyMoron"... you carry on. It shows you up not me.

What I said is factually correct. "...after all millions living in tent cities and the Country's infrastructure falling around it' ears with cities filing for bankruptcy..." even the millions living in tent cities. Tent cities have been around in the U.S for years, (to house the people thrown out of their houses which now stand there boarded up and rotting into the ground) :rolleyes: over that time there has undoubtedly been millions living in them.

I shouldn't need to justify the statement, the way the government treats it's people is a badge of shame... (how is New Orleans getting on? built any houses there yet?) you want to talk about wealth distribution in the states... see if your computer will accept the data on the amount of people living below the poverty line... living in appalling housing like 'The Projects' and take a look at some of your cities and then juxtapose that against the freakish paranoid size and expense of your military. Why don't you go down to these areas and talk to the people and see what they think about it and then come back and post when you have something worthwhile saying,

You really are incredible, you will go to inordinate lengths to try to make my words into a lie but you are totally SILENT when there are real lies told by your precious leader. Of course 'they are not lies' to you are they :)

 
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SR1419

Senior Member.
Look if you want to waste time being pedantic about semantics and post stupid schoolyard name calling like "No- oxyMoron"... you carry on. It shows you up not me.

What I said is factually correct. "...after all millions living in tent cities and the Country's infrastructure falling around it' ears with cities filing for bankruptcy..." even the millions living in tent cities. Tent cities have been around in the U.S for years, (to house the people thrown out of their houses which now stand there boarded up and rotting into the ground) :rolleyes: over that time there has undoubtedly been millions living in them.

Wow. fascinating to watch you bob and weave.

Can't just man-up and admit you were completely speaking out of your ass.

You were speaking of the present tense Oxy- and you know it.

Its not semantics. Its about being factually correct. It wasn't an even remotely accurate statement.

As far as New Orleans goes...I have actually been there and visited with residents and have seen the recovery myself. Its not perfect but it is happening...and yet a lot of houses have been built in New Orleans since the Hurricane. More hyperbole from you:

http://www.rtno.org/about-us/

http://makeitright.org/where-we-work/new-orleans/
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Why don't we just focus on the actual number of homeless? What people said is right there on the page.

One issue though is that propaganda TV outlets like PressTV and RT really like to focus on it. I think it's interesting that the consumers of alternative media accept their deeply slanted characterizations so unquestioningly.
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
Why don't we just focus on the actual number of homeless? What people said is right there on the page.

One issue though is that propaganda TV outlets like PressTV and RT really like to focus on it. I think it's interesting that the consumers of alternative media accept their deeply slanted characterizations so unquestioningly.
You quite often disparage outlets such as Presstv and RT but I find they give an interesting perspective, not to mention that Iran is subjected to highly distorted propaganda via the western media, compounded by the fact that it is limited in it's ability to counter by an extensive ban on it's broadcasting.

I do not often see the type of in depth debates which occur on such outlets, occurring on western outlets.

I cite Cross Talk as being an interesting and lively debate forum, (albeit sometimes a little chaotic) and feel it contributes strongly to countering propaganda due to the diversity of the debaters.

http://rt.com/shows/crosstalk/real-state-us-democracy-408/
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
Wow. fascinating to watch you bob and weave.

Can't just man-up and admit you were completely speaking out of your ass.

You were speaking of the present tense Oxy- and you know it.

Its not semantics. Its about being factually correct. It wasn't an even remotely accurate statement.

As far as New Orleans goes...I have actually been there and visited with residents and have seen the recovery myself. Its not perfect but it is happening...and yet a lot of houses have been built in New Orleans since the Hurricane. More hyperbole from you:

http://www.rtno.org/about-us/

http://makeitright.org/where-we-work/new-orleans/

To date, 86 homes are built and all have earned LEED Platinum, the highest level of certification offered by the U.S. Green Building Council
is hardly inspiring given the level of destruction that took place during Katrina... how many years ago? And whilst RTNO is highly commendable as a volunteer group, it cannot be held up as a flagship resource for rebuilding a national disaster area.

At the start of 2005, RTNO had worked on 900 owner occupied houses, seven neighborhood schools, six community centers, a courthouse and a warehouse through expansion and hard working volunteers.
Huff Post Aug 2008

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/27/new-orleans-since-katrina_n_1834696.html
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/23168160/...confirm-fema-trailers-are-toxic/#.UgZCBG3iT9M
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
You quite often disparage outlets such as Presstv and RT but I find they give an interesting perspective, not to mention that Iran is subjected to highly distorted propaganda via the western media, compounded by the fact that it is limited in it's ability to counter by an extensive ban on it's broadcasting.

I do not often see the type of in depth debates which occur on such outlets, occurring on western outlets.

I cite Cross Talk as being an interesting and lively debate forum, (albeit sometimes a little chaotic) and feel it contributes strongly to countering propaganda due to the diversity of the debaters.

http://rt.com/shows/crosstalk/real-state-us-democracy-408/

All media exists on a spectrum of bias, intentional or otherwise. RT and PressTV have their biases, but that does not mean people don't often say what they actually think on there. Nor does it mean that they are always wrong.

Criticising American Exceptionalism is an unpopular subject choice with American media, simply because it is unpopular with the audience, and American media relies on viewers and readers for revenue. There's a few though, MSNBC to a degree, and NPR/PBS. But one does not need to go to (state funded) Russian and Iranian media to get more balanced critiques of the American system. There are plenty of other countries
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
is hardly inspiring given the level of destruction that took place during Katrina... how many years ago? And whilst RTNO is highly commendable as a volunteer group, it cannot be held up as a flagship resource for rebuilding a national disaster area.

Its not a "flagship" resource- it was just an example- there are many more:

http://www.commongroundrelief.org/
http://makeitright.org/
http://www.globalgreen.org/articles/global/115
http://www.habitat-nola.org/blogs/feature-stories/2013/06/28/500th-wall-raising

there are many more:
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/article/0,,20172009,00.html

The recovery hasn't been perfect...but it is happening.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstruction_of_New_Orleans

Perhaps you should visit and see for yourself instead of just sitting in front of your computer screen making bogus quips ie; "how is New Orleans getting on? built any houses there yet?"

(what does a 5 year old article on FEMA trailers have to do with anything considering that no one is living in them anymore?)
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
Its not a "flagship" resource- it was just an example- there are many more:

http://www.commongroundrelief.org/
http://makeitright.org/
http://www.globalgreen.org/articles/global/115
http://www.habitat-nola.org/blogs/feature-stories/2013/06/28/500th-wall-raising

there are many more:
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/article/0,,20172009,00.html

The recovery hasn't been perfect...but it is happening.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstruction_of_New_Orleans

Perhaps you should visit and see for yourself instead of just sitting in front of your computer screen making bogus quips ie; "how is New Orleans getting on? built any houses there yet?"

(what does a 5 year old article on FEMA trailers have to do with anything considering that no one is living in them anymore?)
I wouldn't go to the U.S... why would I want to do that and risk getting tazered or shot or beaten to death by the cops for jaywalking or something equally ridiculous?

It was quite a big deal for the people who had to live in them for years, breathing in toxic fumes... no one mention it to you?

The point also being that the U.S government spends billions poking its nose in where it is not wanted and invading whoever it feels like and maintaining a ridiculously large military industrial complex and leaves it's own citizens in appalling conditions. Perhaps it should re prioritise?

It appears reconstruction and aid is being left to volunteer groups such as 'food not bombs' etc so someone agrees with me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstruction_of_New_Orleans

 
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SR1419

Senior Member.
I wouldn't go to the U.S... why would I want to do that and risk getting tazered or shot or beaten to death by the cops for jaywalking or something equally ridiculous?

Whilst I agree that your comment is ridiculous...I do know that you would get a better understanding of the US by visiting it than you will from watching Russian state TV.
 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
In Oxy's little world every homeless person is the US had their homes taken away by force from the cops or military. Just another sweeping paranoid generalizing rant about something he has absolutely zero first hand knowledge of.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
To me, it seems that Oxy sees everything in a haze of anti American, anti UK dislike, bordering on hatred. While he excuses every dictator of their actions toward their citizens. We caused 'millions of children to die in Iraq', not the actions of Sadam and his friends stealing the money. We caused al Kaddafi to blow up a plane and to immprision his people. Over and over and over again, he blames the US and the UK for what happens in other countries, while he enjoys the lifestyle and the freedoms that the UK provides him.

I have never heard him mention being active in politics with any party. I wonder why? My hubby has a saying " do you want to make a difference? or do you just want to make noise?" I have participated in politics, other than just as a voter.

But isn't it easier to sit on the sidelines and complain, than to go on the field and get muddy and bruised up or to blame someone else for your 'condition', instead of taking the actions needed to improve it.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
To me, it seems that Oxy sees everything in a haze of anti American, anti UK dislike, bordering on hatred. While he excuses every dictator of their actions toward their citizens. We caused 'millions of children to die in Iraq', not the actions of Sadam and his friends stealing the money. We caused al Kaddafi to blow up a plane and to immprision his people. Over and over and over again, he blames the US and the UK for what happens in other countries, while he enjoys the lifestyle and the freedoms that the UK provides him.

I have never heard him mention being active in politics with any party. I wonder why? My hubby has a saying " do you want to make a difference? or do you just want to make noise?" I have participated in politics, other than just as a voter.

But isn't it easier to sit on the sidelines and complain, than to go on the field and get muddy and bruised up or to blame someone else for your 'condition', instead of taking the actions needed to improve it.


By the way, I have encountered 'bad cops', but I have never been shot or tazered or any such crap, even when I disobeyed them.
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
Whilst I agree that your comment is ridiculous...I do know that you would get a better understanding of the US by visiting it than you will from watching Russian state TV.
The thing is SR, the 'Russian state TV', you refer to is a commercial company in the U.K, regularly interspersed with adverts for Cillit Bang or Go Compare or what have you, ( I preferred it when it wasn't) but irrespective of that I do not see it as any more biased than Foxy News or CNN or Hollywood for that matter. It is biased in a different way and by comparing the two biases a discerning, questioning viewer may be better able to see through both and reach a more objective viewpoint.

I have visited many countries but not America, the M.E or Russia but that doesn't mean I know nothing about them. You keep trying to couch things in a manner to depict me as anti American and I keep correcting you that I am not anti American, I am anti American hegemony and warmongering and I am not anti capitalist but anti plutocracy and anti corporatism and anti corruption, which results in 1% of the population having/controlling over 90% of the wealth and this figure/discrepancy is still growing as I type. I want to see America strong and vibrant with fairness to all... is that so wrong?

I hope the NSA keeps a close eye on people like you Oxy! No sarcasm either!

Explaining what people like you means would violate the politeness policy.

This is the problem, anyone who questions authority or the 'system' 'is the enemy' and needs to be 'watched'... but don't think it will end there... the watching/spying and collating is only the first order of business... it is when they start using that 'data' to intimidate, blackmail and imprison people that it will show itself, as is already the case with many whistleblowers and dissidents.

To me, it seems that Oxy sees everything in a haze of anti American, anti UK dislike, bordering on hatred.
Then I suggest you look at what I say much more objectively because you are totally wrong. I love my country and there is much that I like about America and the American people but that does not mean I should keep silent when I perceive the foundations of both great countries being subverted by a few psychopathic elites who have managed to seize governmental power by covert means and are causing the governments to no longer act in the best interests of it's own people. This IMO, applies more to the U.S but still significantly in the U.K

While he excuses every dictator of their actions toward their citizens.
Where? That is untrue and you should know it.

We caused 'millions of children to die in Iraq', not the actions of Sadam and his friends stealing the money
.
Of course the U.S and the west are guilty of causing the deaths of millions in the M.E and elsewhere. That does not excuse the likes of Saddam or any other dictator. I don't see the U.S rushing in to Zimbabwe to oust Mugabe and nor should they IMO but that does not mean I am 'making excuses for Mugabe, I detest what he is doing.

We caused al Kaddafi to blow up a plane and to immprision his people. Over and over and over again, he blames the US and the UK for what happens in other countries
,
It is still unclear whether Gaddafi had anything to do with that or not but that is not the subject of this thread. The fact is powerful countries meddle in other countries business all the time but when it comes to 'overtrhowing governments' by espionage and or war, the U.S and U.K lead the field and care not one jot for the damage they do. Al Qaeda's rise in Iraq specifically and also Syria but the M.E in general is proof of that.

Do as you will but be prepared to accept the consequences and the consequences are that people push back.

while he enjoys the lifestyle and the freedoms that the UK provides him.
Yes I am very fortunate... I would like to see those freedoms and lifestyle extended worldwide, where the people want it. It is however not aided by 'us' ripping them off by stealing their resources and and supporting tyrants who are 'friendly to us' but abuse their own or by imposing sanctions which hit the already suffering poor populace.

I have never heard him mention being active in politics with any party. I wonder why?

Well that is easy. Because I choose not to on this forum as it is none of your business.

My hubby has a saying " do you want to make a difference? or do you just want to make noise?" I have participated in politics, other than just as a voter.

So have I, so what?

But isn't it easier to sit on the sidelines and complain, than to go on the field and get muddy and bruised up or to blame someone else for your 'condition', instead of taking the actions needed to improve it.
Are you saying I should shut up? Are you saying you have been on demo's and been ruffed up or endured hardships or that you have been out to Afghanistan treating the sick and feeding the poor? What are you saying here?

By the way, I have encountered 'bad cops', but I have never been shot or tazered or any such crap, even when I disobeyed them.

Aren't you the lucky one. Does that mean so long as it doesn't happen to you it is ok or because it hasn't happened to you the vast number of cases on YT and the media are fake?
 
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SR1419

Senior Member.
The thing is SR, the 'Russian state TV', you refer to is a commercial company in the U.K, regularly interspersed with adverts for Cillit Bang or Go Compare or what have you, ( I preferred it when it wasn't) but irrespective of that I do not see it as any more biased than Foxy News or CNN or Hollywood for that matter. It is biased in a different way and by comparing the two biases a discerning, questioning viewer may be better able to see through both and reach a more objective viewpoint.

I have visited many countries but not America, the M.E or Russia but that doesn't mean I know nothing about them. You keep trying to couch things in a manner to depict me as anti American and I keep correcting you that I am not anti American, I am anti American hegemony and warmongering and I am not anti capitalist but anti plutocracy and anti corporatism and anti corruption, which results in 1% of the population having/controlling over 90% of the wealth and this figure/discrepancy is still growing as I type. I want to see America strong and vibrant with fairness to all... is that so wrong?

Since when is RT TV based in the UK?? Its based in Russia.

http://rt.com/about-us/contact-info/

The point wasn't that you should watch Fox news instead...it was that if you visited the US you might understand that there are not millions of homeless living in tent cities or that the risk of being tazered by a cop is much less than being hit by a car crossing the street. You claim to be able to reach a "more objective viewpoints" but your comments reveal anything but an objective view point. Its hard to take you seriously when you simply make things up to bolster your propaganda.

Do you really think this is an objective comment??

 
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Cairenn

Senior Member.
While you condemn the US and the UK for 'meddling' in the affairs of other countries, you choose to ignore that the USSR didn't just meddle, they created 'client' states. Ask the folks of eastern Europe and of central Asia, if the they considered being forced to be a part of the USSR was just meddling. Here is a list of countries that the USSR absorbed for years.
Ukraine
Belarus
Latvia
Lithuania
Estonia
Moldova
Armenia
Azerbaijan
Georgia
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Tajikistan,
Turkmenistan
Uzbekistan

Then let's talk about Poland, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria, Romania, East Germany and Hungry. Then there is the heavy meddling in Cuba, North Korea, North Viet Nam, Cambodia, Laos, Angola and others.

The US and the UK have not always been saints, but we have not, overall been as heavy handed as others have been.

Have you ever visited Russia? You seem to approve of them a lot.
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
No just you!
Interesting. Why would that be?

Since when is RT TV based in the UK?? Its based in Russia.

I didn't say it wasn't, I said, in the U.K, RT is at least partly funded by western advertising... it is branded as RT Commercial.

The point wasn't that you should watch Fox news instead...it was that if you visited the US you might understand that there are not millions of homeless living in tent cities or that the risk of being tazered by a cop is much less than being hit by a car crossing the street. You claim to be able to reach a "more objective viewpoints" but your comments reveal anything but an objective view point. Its hard to take you seriously when you simply make things up to bolster your propaganda.

Do you really think this is an objective comment??

I think it is an objective comment, but perhaps it could have been phrased better. It seems we are both in agreement that it is not a good situation and it needs remedying. I think it is worsened by the fact that the U.S seems far more interested in funding wars and a ridiculously large military complex rather than address these issues.

http://www.californialawreview.org/assets/pdfs/99-4/03_Loftus-Farren.pdf
Many people find the levels of police violence and over reactions in the U.S, very disturbing to say the least. Getting run over or some other accident is not the same as deliberate abuse of power by an excessive police force which is becoming known around the world for such excesses and abuses. You only need look on YouTube to see the vast number of cases and the level of abuse. I believe these cops need reigning in. It may not be unique to the U.S and there are undoubtedly worse examples in other countries but if you want to go with American Exceptionalism, you need to walk the walk and not just talk the talk, the same goes for torture, starting wars, overthrowing governments, spying on the populace and many other things. If its broke... fix it.

It concerns me because our countries are so inter related that it could easily spill over and when I see the NSA spying on U.K citizens via our own intelligence services as well as through companies like FB, Google and Microsoft I am very unhappy, as are a lot of others throughout the world.

While you condemn the US and the UK for 'meddling' in the affairs of other countries, you choose to ignore that the USSR didn't just meddle, they created 'client' states. Ask the folks of eastern Europe and of central Asia, if the they considered being forced to be a part of the USSR was just meddling. Here is a list of countries that the USSR absorbed for years.
Ukraine
Belarus
Latvia
Lithuania
Estonia
Moldova
Armenia
Azerbaijan
Georgia
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Tajikistan,
Turkmenistan
Uzbekistan

Then let's talk about Poland, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria, Romania, East Germany and Hungry. Then there is the heavy meddling in Cuba, North Korea, North Viet Nam, Cambodia, Laos, Angola and others.

The US and the UK have not always been saints, but we have not, overall been as heavy handed as others have been.

Have you ever visited Russia? You seem to approve of them a lot.

Do you even bother to actually read my posts before telling me who I am and what I think? Apparently not.

The countries you list have mostly all been independent for well over 20 years since Glasnost... stop living in the Cold War Era... people have moved on. It is since Glasnost that the U.S has turned its attention more toward hegemony. In some ways it is bad for the world that America seems to be taking advantage of a lack of opposition. It should not be making the same mistakes that Russia made decades ago. People should be working toward peace in the world not war, war, and more war.

I say the same to you as I said to SR...if you want to go with American Exceptionalism, you need to walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

Anyway... this thread is about the homeless people in America.
 
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Joe Newman

Active Member
While you condemn the US and the UK for 'meddling' in the affairs of other countries, you choose to ignore that the USSR didn't just meddle, they created 'client' states. Ask the folks of eastern Europe and of central Asia, if the they considered being forced to be a part of the USSR was just meddling.


Then let's talk about Poland, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria, Romania, East Germany and Hungry. Then there is the heavy meddling in Cuba, North Korea, North Viet Nam, Cambodia, Laos, Angola and others.

The US and the UK have not always been saints, but we have not, overall been as heavy handed as others have been.

I wonder if the millions rounded up under Operation Keelhaul and forced to be part of the USSR after the war would agree with you about the lack of heavy handedness or meddling by the US and UK.
 
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SR1419

Senior Member.
I think it is an objective comment

Thats funny.

Of course, you do...and therein lies the problem.

Can you actually find any cases of someone being beaten to death by cops for jaywalking?

If not, then its simply subjective hyperbole based on ignorance.

For the record- I have never claimed, espoused or otherwise mentioned "American Exceptionalism"- if you want to hold the US to higher standard than the rest of the world then go for it.
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
Thats funny.

Of course, you do...and therein lies the problem.

Can you actually find any cases of someone being beaten to death by cops for jaywalking?

If not, then its simply subjective hyperbole based on ignorance.

For the record- I have never claimed, espoused or otherwise mentioned "American Exceptionalism"- if you want to hold the US to higher standard than the rest of the world then go for it.
I suppose you want to continue being pedantic about semantics... 'oh it wasn't for jaywalking so your a liar....'

I don't suppose David Silva would appreciate the distinction between jaywalking and passed out drunk, (or he could even have been ill for all they knew, not that that makes any difference as is evidenced on you tube), but it is oh so important to you


So you carry on defending them, turn your blind eye... others see what is going on no matter how much you twist and turn to make it sound right... you fool no one.


Yeah, "It took this number of deputies, (7), to control him to stop him hurting himself"... Sheesh that's so nice of them... "This type of incident is not uncommon across this country", yeah you can say that again. That is why I say thanks for your invite but no thanks... you like it , you have it.

There are plenty more cases out there, it's not like an isolated incident but of course you already know that with your research skills... so why argue the issue and why argue about the homeless and the warmongering and the corporate fraud and the rest of it... no seriously why? Denial doesn't make it disappear. How many more instances do you want me to post for crying out loud.
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
So you carry on defending them, turn your blind eye... others see what is going on no matter how much you twist and turn to make it sound right... you fool no one.

I defended no one. Simply pointed out the bunk in your statement.

You think you "know" all about the US from watching youtube videos and RT...

Good luck with that.
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
I defended no one. Simply pointed out the bunk in your statement.

You think you "know" all about the US from watching youtube videos and RT...

Good luck with that.
Yeah and good luck trying to pretend it doesn't go on and it is not systemic. All the time you pretend it doesn't happen, the problem won't be dealt with. It is a systemic problem and it needs enough people prepared to kick up the dust about it.

I think Mick nailed it and you, Soulfly and Cairenn are good examples of 'unappreciative audience', when he said:
Criticising American Exceptionalism is an unpopular subject choice with American media, simply because it is unpopular with the audience, and American media relies on viewers and readers for revenue.

Don't shoot the messenger, fix the problem.

 
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SR1419

Senior Member.
Yeah and good luck trying to pretend it doesn't go on and it is not systemic. All the time you pretend it doesn't happen, the problem won't be dealt with. It is a systemic problem and it needs enough people prepared to kick up the dust about it.

I think Mick nailed it and you are a good example of it when he said:

Typical Oxy- now you are resorting to simply making things up- claiming to know what I "pretend".

I have never even remotely suggested "it doesn't go on" or claim "exceptionalism".

You keep trying to put words in my mouth and it really is a giant FAIL.

Good luck with that.
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
Typical Oxy- now you are resorting to simply making things up- claiming to know what I "pretend".

I have never even remotely suggested "it doesn't go on" or claim "exceptionalism".

You keep trying to put words in my mouth and it really is a giant FAIL.

Good luck with that.

Can you actually find any cases of someone being beaten to death by cops for jaywalking?

If not, then its simply subjective hyperbole based on ignorance.

Yeah, backtrack all you can... 'The Out of Control Cop' video is particularly relevant as the first guy beaten to a pulp was collapsed in his car in a diabetic coma... it could be you SR... you would still need to be beaten to a pulp for resisting arrest whilst you were unconscious... it's only logical... that's why the cop is still on the force merrily going around beating up and terrorizing victims to his hearts content... all with the blessing of the Sheriff's Office... wonderful world!
 
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