MH17 Malaysian 777 Carrying 295 People Shot Down Over Ukraine

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Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200 flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was allegedly shot down by a group of Russian-backed Cossack militants near the village of Chornukhine, Luhansk Oblast, some 80 kilometers north-west of Donetsk, according to recordings of intercepted phone calls between Russian military intelligence officers and members of terrorist groups, released by the country’s security agency (SBU).

One phone call apparently was made at 4:40 p.m. Kyiv time, or 20 minutes after the plane crash, by Igor Bezler, who the SBU says is a Russian military intelligence officer and leading commander of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic. He reports to a person identified by Ukraine’s SBU as a colonel in the main intelligence department of the general headquarters of the armed forces of the Russian Federation Vasili Geranin regarding the shot down plane, which is about to be examined by the militants.

The second intercepted conversation released by the Security Service of Ukraine was apparently between militants nicknamed “Major” and “Greek” immediately upon inspection of the crash site.

“It’s 100 percent a passenger (civilian) aircraft,” Major is recorded as saying, as he admitted to seeing no weapons on site. “Absolutely nothing. Civilian items, medicinal stuff, towels, toilet paper.”

In the third part of conversation Cossack commander Nikolay Kozitsin talking to an unidentified militant cynically suggests that the Malaysia Airlines airplane could've been carrying spies, as, otherwise, it would have no business flying in that area.

Read the full transcript of an intercepted phone call below:

Igor Bezler: We have just shot down a plane. Group Minera. It fell down beyond Yenakievo (Donetsk Oblast).

Vasili Geranin: Pilots. Where are the pilots?

IB: Gone to search for and photograph the plane. Its smoking.

VG: How many minutes ago?

IB: About 30 minutes ago.

SBU comment: After examining the site of the plane the terrorists come to the conclusion that they have shot down a civilian plane. The next part of the conversation took place about 40 minutes later.

Major”: These are Chernukhin folks who shot down the plane. From the Chernukhin check point. Those cossacks who are based in Chernukhino.

“Grek”: Yes, Major.

"Major": The plane fell apart in the air. In the area of Petropavlovskaya mine. The first “200” (code word for dead person). We have found the first “200”. A Civilian.

“Greek”: Well, what do you have there?

“Major”: In short, it was 100 percent a passenger (civilian) aircraft.

“Greek”: Are many people there?

“Major”: Holy sh__t! The debris fell right into the yards (of homes).

“Greek”: What kind of aircraft?

“Major”: I haven’t ascertained this. I haven’t been to the main sight. I am only surveying the scene where the first bodies fell. There are the remains of internal brackets, seats and bodies.

“Greek”: Is there anything left of the weapon?

“Major”: Absolutely nothing. Civilian items, medicinal stuff, towels, toilet paper.

“Greek”: Are there documents?

“Major”: Yes, of one Indonesian student. From a university in Thompson.

Militant: Regarding the plane shot down in the area of Snizhne-Torez. It’s a civilian one. Fell down near Grabove. There are lots of corpses of women and children. The Cossacks are out there looking at all this.

They say on TV it’s AN-26 transport plane, but they say it’s written Malaysia Airlines on the plane. What was it doing on Ukraine’s territory?

Nikolay Kozitsin: That means they were carrying spies. They shouldn’t be f…cking flying. There is a war going on.
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukr...pped-conversation-full-transcript-356545.html
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I see on Twitter people asking why it didn't disappear into a hole, like flight 93 in Shanksville.


Understandable confusion, but unfortunate that they leap from confusion to conspiracy.
 
A missile leaves pieces behind. This will be traced to its point of origin.
Yep - if there can be a decent recovery of wreckage - but you'd have to think if there is a guilty party in among the wreckage they'll be trying to get rid of any such evidence.

also possibly any substantial missile wreckage might be well away from the aircraft wreckage - which may help or hinder such a search....
 
I see on Twitter people asking why it didn't disappear into a hole, like flight 93 in Shanksville.

Because UAL 93 was FLOWN deliberately into the ground.

This is hugely different from being "shot - down" (which is ALSO a 9/11 claim RE: UAL 93).

Obvious is obvious.
 
Because UAL 93 was FLOWN deliberately into the ground.

This is hugely different from being "shot - down" (which is ALSO a 9/11 claim RE: UAL 93).

Obvious is obvious.

It's not obvious unless you have an understanding of such things. Best to just kindly explain it to people if possible.
 
Best to just kindly explain it to people if possible.

OK....this goes off the topic of this subject, but the UAL 93 (September 11, 2001) Flight Data Recorder clearly showed that the airplane was intentionally flown into the ground. NOT "shot-down". These are two very different things.

UAL 93 FDR below:


AND sorry.....this is the FULL FDR animation. One must skip ahead to see the final minutes of the flight....
 
Russia Today's spin on the topic is interesting - they are reporting rebel forces have no such systems. But Ukraine does.
“According to the Russian Defense Ministry information, units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine located in the crash-site are equipped with anti-aircraft missile systems of "Buk-M1” ... These complexes in their tactical and technical characteristics are capable of detecting air targets at ranges of up to 160 kilometers and hit them at full altitude range at a distance of over 30 kilometers,” the ministry’s statement reads.
....

There’s no way that the self-defense forces in Donetsk Region are in possession of such complex weaponry, he stressed. Only S-300 and Buk surface-to-air missile systems are capable of hitting targets at such altitude, the source said.
...

Chances are high that the Malaysian plane was really downed by the Ukrainian anti-aircraft defense, Yury Karash, pilot and aviation expert, told RT.

“A Boeing-777 is an extremely reliable piece of machinery. Modern planes don’t just crash with no reason,”
he said. “Let us recall how a Ukrainian missile downed Russian TU-154 aircraft ten years ago. I can’t completely exclude the possibility the Boeing-777 was also hit by a missile.”

“I don’t know who could’ve shot it down. But I can allege that it was most likely the Ukrainian armed forces: simply because its military – anti-aircraft defense, in particular – are, unfortunately, unqualified. As judging by the overall state of the Ukrainian armed forces, insufficient attention has been paid to their training,” Karash added.


Reports in the Western media hurried to blame the self-defense forces of the People’s Republic of Donetsk for bringing the plane down.

...

It seems unlikely that the self-defense forces could’ve used Buk surface-to-air missile systems to down the Malaysian plane, retired Brig. Gen. Kevin Ryan, the director of the Defense and Intelligence Project at the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs, said.

“It takes a lot of training and a lot of coordination to fire one of these and hit something,”
he told CNN. “This is not the kind of weapon a couple of guys are going to pull out of a garage and fire.”

According to Ryan, if the plane was really taken down then it was done by a professional military force.
rt.com/news/173636-buk-malaysian-plane-crash/
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A post on the VKontakte social networking service apparently from Igor Girkin, commander of the Donbass People's Militia, acknowledged shooting down an aircraft at approximately the same time in approximately this location, claiming it was a Ukrainian military An-26 transport plane, and linking to video of smoking wreckage of the 777. This post was deleted later in the day.[36][37] According to Google Maps, Rassypnoye (where Girkin claims to have shot down the plane) is 6km from Hrabove, where MH17 crashed.
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I don't know if that is really the next logical question. It is if you're constructing a conspiracy theory, but if you entertain this was just a tragic mistake, the question of 'who benefits' isn't logically connected to 'who actually did it?'
Logicial in the sense of who did it, and what benefit would they have gotten from this tragedy. Hardly a CT.
 
Just waking up to this. 27 Aussies on board. Unbelievable. 20/20 hindsight here but if intelligence agencies were aware of a sophisticated SAM system being in the wrong hands, then Ukraine should have been a flight planning no-go zone.
According the FAA, they warned airliners about the dangers in the Ukraine since April when the escalation started in the Ukraine. What's disturbing is the fact that a plane was recently shot down in the region, yet the commercial airline industry didn't take that into consideration when planning flight paths.
 
http://inforesist.org/minoborony-usililo-oxranu-arsenalov-s-oruzhiem-na-donbasse/

Defense Ministry has strengthened protection arsenals of weapons in the Donbass
30.06.2014 12:27
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As the press service of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine, arsenals of weapons in eastern Ukraine were taken under heavy guard.
reported the press service of the Defense Ministry.
"In order to prevent an armed attack on military targets to personnel protection was strengthened by the other parts of the military," - the ministry said.

There was assured that everything arsenals, military bases and ammunition depots in the east are under heavy guard.

As previously reported in the last few days by terrorists in the Donetsk region was a series of attacks on military units. All were captured.

This record is also available in: RBM
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Logicial in the sense of who did it, and what benefit would they have gotten from this tragedy. Hardly a CT.
If it was an accident, no benefit , it makes the guys who didn't shoot down a civilian plane look reasonable and them look incompetent; so the side who didn't shoot it down benefits.
But if you are saying the one who benefits was the one who really shot it down, then you have to imply a CT because it was then deliberate and made to look like the other guy did it.
 
Russia Today's spin on the topic is interesting - they are reporting rebel forces have no such systems. But Ukraine does.
“According to the Russian Defense Ministry information, units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine located in the crash-site are equipped with anti-aircraft missile systems of "Buk-M1” ... These complexes in their tactical and technical characteristics are capable of detecting air targets at ranges of up to 160 kilometers and hit them at full altitude range at a distance of over 30 kilometers,” the ministry’s statement reads.
....

There’s no way that the self-defense forces in Donetsk Region are in possession of such complex weaponry, he stressed. Only S-300 and Buk surface-to-air missile systems are capable of hitting targets at such altitude, the source said.
...

Chances are high that the Malaysian plane was really downed by the Ukrainian anti-aircraft defense, Yury Karash, pilot and aviation expert, told RT.

“A Boeing-777 is an extremely reliable piece of machinery. Modern planes don’t just crash with no reason,”
he said. “Let us recall how a Ukrainian missile downed Russian TU-154 aircraft ten years ago. I can’t completely exclude the possibility the Boeing-777 was also hit by a missile.”

“I don’t know who could’ve shot it down. But I can allege that it was most likely the Ukrainian armed forces: simply because its military – anti-aircraft defense, in particular – are, unfortunately, unqualified. As judging by the overall state of the Ukrainian armed forces, insufficient attention has been paid to their training,” Karash added.


Reports in the Western media hurried to blame the self-defense forces of the People’s Republic of Donetsk for bringing the plane down.

...

It seems unlikely that the self-defense forces could’ve used Buk surface-to-air missile systems to down the Malaysian plane, retired Brig. Gen. Kevin Ryan, the director of the Defense and Intelligence Project at the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs, said.

“It takes a lot of training and a lot of coordination to fire one of these and hit something,”
he told CNN. “This is not the kind of weapon a couple of guys are going to pull out of a garage and fire.”

According to Ryan, if the plane was really taken down then it was done by a professional military force.
rt.com/news/173636-buk-malaysian-plane-crash/
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Apparently the US has concluded that this was NO accident, and Biden was even quoted as saying such. US says a radar system was able to determine that it was a SAM and that the system was turned on and tracked the aircraft right before it went down. A second system was able to detect the heat signature when the airliner was hit, and that intelligence officials are working through the data to see if they could determine its trajectory.. http://fox6now.com/2014/07/17/report-malaysia-airlines-flight-crashes-in-ukraine/
U.S. concludes Malaysia Airlines jet shot down; Biden says: “Not an accident, blown out of the sky”
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A radar system saw a surface-to-air missile system turn on and track an aircraft right before the plane went down, the senior U.S. official said. A second system saw a heat signature at the time the airliner was hit, the official said. The United States is analyzing the trajectory of the missile to try to learn where the attack came from.
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Better pic of the tweet


According to this thread, this is not a firing unit, but rather a reload vehicle.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forum...8a9223661a12&p=7250019&viewfull=1#post7250019
This looks like a reload vehicle to me.
Buk comes with three vehicles, the search radar, the normal firing unit (TELAR in english) and the reload vehicle.
Those can fire missiles too, but they can't guide their missiles, a nearby firing unit has to provide illumination.
The firing unit can engage by itself but it needs to be pointed to a target by a search radar.
So even if it is a firing unit, by itself its engagement zone is AFAIK limited to visual range.
If it is just a reload vehicle, the thing is useless in itself.

Edit: yes it is a reload vehicle. It carries 4 missiles ready to fire (dummies in the picture? what does red colour signify in soviet army?) and can carry another four in front and below them.
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If it was an accident, no benefit , it makes the guys who didn't shoot down a civilian plane look reasonable and them look incompetent; so the side who didn't shoot it down benefits.
But if you are saying the one who benefits was the one who really shot it down, then you have to imply a CT because it was then deliberate and made to look like the other guy did it.
Ok, I understand your point and no I don't think this was some sort of false flag. But still the question remains who benefits from this trajedy, regardless of who fired the rocket.
 
No a mistaken target is not an accident - you MEANT to shoot down the target - getting the wrong target is a mistake - not an accident.
 
But a mistaken target is an accident.
That's coming from the VP Joe Biden, Pete. I'm sure hitting a commericial liner wasn't there or whoever's intent, but the fact that their radar systems locked onto the plane and tracked, sort of proves it wasn't an accident. Wouldn't the radar tracking system be linked so the planes Squawk would appear. Letting them know if it was military or commercial?
 
But a mistaken target is an accident.
I think Biden meant that it was not accident in the more usual sense of equipment failure, or mid-air collision. He had no idea at the time if the shooter intended to shoot down a civilian aircraft. At the time he was still working to confirm reports it had even been shot down.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/17/joe-biden-malaysian-airliner_n_5596775.html

DETROIT -- Vice President Joe Biden said the United States is working to confirm reports that Malaysian Airlines Flight 17was "apparently shot down" over eastern Ukraine on Thursday.

"A Malaysian aircraft traveling from Western Europe to Kuala Lumpur … was apparently shot down," Biden said, telling the crowd he wanted to emphasize the information was based off of initial reports.

"Not an accident. Blown out of the sky," he said.
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Better pic of the tweet


According to this thread, this is not a firing unit, but rather a reload vehicle.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forum...8a9223661a12&p=7250019&viewfull=1#post7250019
This looks like a reload vehicle to me.
Buk comes with three vehicles, the search radar, the normal firing unit (TELAR in english) and the reload vehicle.
Those can fire missiles too, but they can't guide their missiles, a nearby firing unit has to provide illumination.
The firing unit can engage by itself but it needs to be pointed to a target by a search radar.
So even if it is a firing unit, by itself its engagement zone is AFAIK limited to visual range.
If it is just a reload vehicle, the thing is useless in itself.

Edit: yes it is a reload vehicle. It carries 4 missiles ready to fire (dummies in the picture? what does red colour signify in soviet army?) and can carry another four in front and below them.
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This photo is different from the one CNN is discussing on the TV, Erin Burnett. They show a BUK system launcher next to a building at a town cirlce of sorts. Claiming its the one they captured from the Ukranians. But I can't find the photo of it online..
 
Better pic of the tweet


According to this thread, this is not a firing unit, but rather a reload vehicle.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forum...8a9223661a12&p=7250019&viewfull=1#post7250019
.......

Edit: yes it is a reload vehicle. It carries 4 missiles ready to fire (dummies in the picture? what does red colour signify in soviet army?) and can carry another four in front and below them.
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Here's a better shot of one:

Edit - system doesn't want to show this photo - must be a conspiracy! :)

It's a better shot showing the layout of the vehicle:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:BUK_file2.jpg#mediaviewer/File:BUK_file2.jpg
 
I've even been seeing reports that the Ukranians intercepted cables between the separatist and Russian intelligence, and that they were discussing the downed jet.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ople-crashes-Ukraine-near-Russian-border.html
Ukraine claimed to have intercepted a phone call between separatists and Russian intelligence boasting of downing the jet, while one rebel commander tweeted: ‘We warned you – do not fly in “our sky”.
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The audio for the intercepted conversation is in this link. I couldn't attach the video file. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/world/europe/malaysian-airlines-plane-ukraine.html
 
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hearing many on board were on way to international Aids conference in Melbourne

http://www.aids2014.org/

00.28 There have been unconfirmed reports on social media that some leading international Aids researchers and scientists were on the flight en route to Melbourne for the 2014 World Aids Conference.
 
hearing many on board were on way to international Aids conference in Melbourne

http://www.aids2014.org/

00.28 There have been unconfirmed reports on social media that some leading international Aids researchers and scientists were on the flight en route to Melbourne for the 2014 World Aids Conference.

Yes, several leading researchers. Great loss to the AIDS research community.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...an-flight-crash-way-conference-Melbourne.html

A leading HIV researcher from the Netherlands was reportedly among the 295 passengers on board Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 that was shot down on the Russian-Ukraine border.

Joep Lange was en route to 20th International AIDS Conference, AIDS2014, which was to be held in Melbourne from July 20 to 25.

Dr Lange was one of several European researchers believed to be on the flight and heading to the Melbourne conference.
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OK....this goes off the topic of this subject, but the UAL 93 (September 11, 2001) Flight Data Recorder clearly showed that the airplane was intentionally flown into the ground. NOT "shot-down". These are two very different things.

UAL 93 FDR below:


AND sorry.....this is the FULL FDR animation. One must skip ahead to see the final minutes of the flight....

well once it is clear that this plane WAS shot down, it should serve as more proof that flight 93 was NOT shot down as the crash was so different
 
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