MH17 Malaysian 777 Carrying 295 People Shot Down Over Ukraine

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Planes are being routed to avoid the area:
Zero Hedge posted a question on whether the flight was diverted over restricted airspace yesterday:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/was-flight-mh-17-diverted-over-restricted-airspace

The Zero Hedge article highlights this image:


They then highlight that the airspace was already known to be restricted as published by the WSJ here:


Separately, I read reports that Ukrainian air traffic control centres were evacuated by the military yesterday and radar records confiscated. This seems odd. I also read that Russia made off with the black box. I will try and dig out the two sources.
 
Of the 10 previous tracks, 2 are significantly to the South of the other 8. It's likely down to wind conditions at altitude.

And the airspace below was restricted, it wasn't actually flying through restricted airspace.

AFAIK they were flying between the same 2 'waypoints' they always fly between.
 
Claims of a Buk being transported in convoy from Russia.





The militia truck in the above image appears to be one of the "Mad Max" conversions used by the rebels. There is a possibility that this truck conversion is unique and a one off?

Claimed to be the same truck seen at the head of this tank convoy in the following video.



The truck also appears in the following video at 0:26 and 2:46



http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.nl/2014/07/russian-transport-of-buk-into-ukraine.html

Additional analysis from Military Photos forum.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forum...read-Or-the-original-Butthurt-thread/page4156


http://www.militaryphotos.net/forum...ussion-thread-Or-the-original-Butthurt-thread
 
An air traffic controller working in Borispol in Kiev tweeted that it was the Ukrainian military that shot it down.

His handle is @spainbuca. His feed was deleted which is odd. Here is the broken twitter account link.

On the site which archived these tweets, they claim that "Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down."

@spainbuca's archived tweets follow. The bolded ones are my emphasis:

http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/20...rport-ukraine-military-shot-down-boeing-mh17/

CHRONOLOGY OF @spainbuca’s TWITTER FEED

10:21 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Autoridades de kiev, intentan hacer que pueda parecer un ataque de los pro-rusos

Kiev Authorities, trying to make looks like an attack by pro-Russian

10:24 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Ojo! Que puede ser un derribo B777 Malaysia Airlines en ukraine, 280 pasajeros

“warning! It can be a downing, Malaysia Airlines B777 in ukraine, 280 passengers”

10:25 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Cuidado! Kiev tiene lo que buscaba

“Warning! Kiev have what they wanted”

10:25 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Vuelven a tomar la torre de control en Kiev

“[Miitary] has taken control of ATC in Kiev”

10:27 – 17 de jul. de 2014 El avión B777 de Malaysia Airlines desapareció del radar, no hubo comunicación de ninguna anomalia, confirmado

“The Malaysia Airlines B777 plane disappeared from the radar, there was no communication of any anomaly, confirmed”

10:30 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Avión derribado, derribados, derribado no accidente

Plane shot down, shot down, shot down, no accident

10:31 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Kiev, tiene lo que buscaba, lo dije en los primeros tw, kiev es responsable @ActualidadRT

“Kiev have what they wanted, I said in the first tw [Tweets], Kiev is responsible @ ActualidadRT”

10:35 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Un accidente muy normal no es, no están amenazando en la misma torre del aeropuerto de kiev,

“An accident that is not quite normal, they are threatening us in the same tower of Kiev airport

10:35 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Nos van a quitar, nuestros tlf y demás de un momento a otro

they will take from our phones and others stuff at any moment

10:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Antes de que me quiten el tlf o me rompan la cabeza, derribado por Kiev

Before They remove my phone or they break my head, shot down by Kiev

11:12 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Nosotros tenemos la confirmación. Avión derribado, la autoridad de kiev, ya tiene la información, derribado, estamos tranquilos ahora

“We have confirmation. Plane downed, Kiev authorities already have the information, downed, we are calm now”

11:13 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Que hace personal extranjero con autoridades de kiev en la torre? Recopilando toda la información

“What are doing foreigners with kiev authorities in the tower? Gathering all the information”

11:15 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Cuando sea posible sigo escribiendo

“When possible I´ll keep writing”

11:48 – 17 de jul. de 2014 El avión B 777 voló escoltado por 2 cazas de ukraine hasta minutos antes, de desaparecer de los radares,

The B777 plane flew escorted by Ukraine jet fighter until 2 minutes before disappearing from the radar,

11:54 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Sí las autoridades de kiev, quieren decir la verdad, esta recogido 2 cazas volaron muy cerca minutos antes , no lo derribo un caza

If kiev authorities want to tell the truth, It´s gathered, 2 jet fighters flew very close minutes before, wasn’t downed by a fighter

12:00 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Nada más desaparecer el avión B 777 de Malaysia Airlines la autoridad militar de kiev nos informo del derribo, como lo sabían?

Malaysia Airlines B777 plane just disappeared and Kiev military authority informed us of the downing, How they knew?

12:00 – 17 de jul. de 2014 A los 7:00 minutos se notificó el derribo, más tarde se tomó la torre nuestra con personal extranjero q siguen aquí

“7:00 minutes after [plane dissapeared], the downing was notified, later our tower was taken with foreigner staff, they still here ”

12:01 – 17 de jul. de 2014 En los radares esta todo recogido, para los incrédulos, derribado por kiev, aquí lo sabemos y control aéreo militar también

all this is gathered in radars, to the unbelieving, shot down by kiev, here we know it and military air traffic control also

13:15 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Aquí los mandos militares manejan y admiten que militares a otras órdenes, pudieron ser, pero no, los pro-rusos

“Here the military commanders manage and support it could be military following other orders , but no, the pro-Russian”

13:29 – 17 de jul. de 2014 El ministro del interior si conocía que, hacían los cazas en la zona, el ministro de defensa no, .

“Interior Minister knew what the fighters were doing in the area, the defense minister didn’t.”

13:31 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Militares confirman que fue ukraine, pero se sigue sin saber de donde vino la orden

Military confirm It was Ukraine, but still does not know where the order came from

13:36 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Hace dias lo dije aquí, militares de kiev querían alzarse contra el actual presidente, esto puede ser una forma, a las órdenes de timoshenko

“Days ago I said here, kiev military wanted to rise against the current president, this may be a way, ordered by timoshenko [following timishenko orders]”

13:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Los cazas volaron cerca del 777, hasta 3 minutos antes de desaparecer de los radares, solo 3 minutos

“The fighters flew close to 777, up to 3 minutes before disappearing from the radar, just 3 minutes”

13:43 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Se cierra el espacio aéreo

“Airspace closed”

13:45 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Se cierra el espacio aéreo, por miedo a más derribos

“Airspace is closed, more downings feared”

15:17 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Control militar entrega ahora mismo de forma oficial que el avión fue derribado por misil

military control now officially [say] the plane was shot down by missile

15:23 – 17 de jul. de 2014 El informe oficial firmado por las autoridades militares de control de kiev ya lo tiene el gobierno,,,, , derribado

“Government has the official report signed by the control military authorities in Kiev,,,, [plane] shot down”

15:26 – 17 de jul. de 2014 En el informe se indica de donde abría salido el misil, y se especifica que no proviene de las autodefensa en las zonas rebeldes

“The report indicates where the missile had come out [from], and specified is not from the selfdefence in rebel areas”

15:34 – 17 de jul. de 2014Los radares militares si recogieron los datos del misil lanzado al avión, los radares civiles no

“Military radar collected data from missile fired to the plane, civilian radars didn’t”

15:36 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Los altos mandos militares no ordenaron el lanzamiento del misil, ,,alguien se le fue la mano en nombre de ukraine

military high command did not gave the order to fire the missile, someone screw it ine the name of ukraine

15:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Para el que no lo sepa, digamos así, hay militares a las órdenes del ministro de defensa y militares a las órdenes del ministro del interior

“For those who do not know, Let’s say, there are military under the orders of the defense minister and military under the orders of Interior Minister”

15:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Los militares a las órdenes del ministro del interior conocían en cada momento lo que sucedió, .

“The military under the orders of Interior Minister knew what happened all the time .”

16:06 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Mandos militares aquí (ATC) torre de control, confirman que el misil es del ejercito de ukraine,

Military commanders here (ATC) control tower, confirm that the missile is from the ukranian army,

16:07 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Mandos militares que si lo sabían y otros mandos que no,

“military commanders that knew it and others didn´t ,”

16:08 – 17 de jul. de 2014 290 personas inocentes muertas, . Por una guerra inútil, donde el patriotismo se compra con dinero

“290 dead innocent people. What a useless war, where patriotism is bought with money”

16:09 – 17 de jul. de 2014 La forma de tomar la torre de control minutos después sabiendo todo los detalles, rápido nos hizo pensar que habían sido ellos

Thw way the control tower was taken minutes after & knowing all the details, made us think that they [made it]

16:10 – 17 de jul. de 2014 La cara de los militares que llegaron más tarde diciendo pero que habéis echo, no dejo dudas

“The face of the soldiers who came later saying [what you just did], no chance for doubts”

16:12 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Es tal la decadencia que los militares acompañados de extranjeros que llegaron primero nos llegaron a pedir que dijéramos su versión

“Such is the decline that military who came first accompanied by foreigners came to us asking us to tell their version”

16:13 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Nuestra respuesta, fue, estos radares no recogen el lanzamiento de misiles, los militares si, ya no quedaban dudas

“Our response was, these radars do not collect the launching of missiles, the military ones does, there were no doubts”

Content from External Source
I looks like the Ukrainian military responded orders of magnitude faster than NORAD did to 9/11. How ironic! The speed of their response, however, is a little bit questionable and leads me to believe they are covering up their own involvement.
 
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An air traffic controller based in Borispol in Kiev tweeted that it was the Ukrainian military that shot it down.

His handle is @spanbuca. His feed was deleted which is odd. Here is the broken twitter account link.

Someone archived his tweets as follows:

http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/20...rport-ukraine-military-shot-down-boeing-mh17/

CHRONOLOGY OF @spainbuca’s TWITTER FEED

10:21 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Autoridades de kiev, intentan hacer que pueda parecer un ataque de los pro-rusos

“Kiev Authorities, trying to make looks like an attack by pro-Russian”

10:24 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Ojo! Que puede ser un derribo B777 Malaysia Airlines en ukraine, 280 pasajeros

“warning! It can be a downing, Malaysia Airlines B777 in ukraine, 280 passengers”

10:25 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Cuidado! Kiev tiene lo que buscaba

“Warning! Kiev have what they wanted”

10:25 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Vuelven a tomar la torre de control en Kiev

“[Miitary] has taken control of ATC in Kiev”

10:27 – 17 de jul. de 2014 El avión B777 de Malaysia Airlines desapareció del radar, no hubo comunicación de ninguna anomalia, confirmado

“The Malaysia Airlines B777 plane disappeared from the radar, there was no communication of any anomaly, confirmed”

10:30 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Avión derribado, derribados, derribado no accidente

“Plane shot down, shot down, shot down, no accident”

10:31 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Kiev, tiene lo que buscaba, lo dije en los primeros tw, kiev es responsable @ActualidadRT

“Kiev have what they wanted, I said in the first tw [Tweets], Kiev is responsible @ ActualidadRT”

10:35 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Un accidente muy normal no es, no están amenazando en la misma torre del aeropuerto de kiev,

“An accident that is not quite normal, they are threatening us in the same tower of Kiev airport”

10:35 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Nos van a quitar, nuestros tlf y demás de un momento a otro

“they will take from our phones and others stuff at any moment”

10:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Antes de que me quiten el tlf o me rompan la cabeza, derribado por Kiev

“Before They remove my phone or they break my head, shot down by Kiev”

11:12 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Nosotros tenemos la confirmación. Avión derribado, la autoridad de kiev, ya tiene la información, derribado, estamos tranquilos ahora

“We have confirmation. Plane downed, Kiev authorities already have the information, downed, we are calm now”

11:13 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Que hace personal extranjero con autoridades de kiev en la torre? Recopilando toda la información

“What are doing foreigners with kiev authorities in the tower? Gathering all the information”

11:15 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Cuando sea posible sigo escribiendo

“When possible I´ll keep writing”

11:48 – 17 de jul. de 2014 El avión B 777 voló escoltado por 2 cazas de ukraine hasta minutos antes, de desaparecer de los radares,

The B777 plane flew escorted by Ukraine jet fighter until 2 minutes before disappearing from the radar,

11:54 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Sí las autoridades de kiev, quieren decir la verdad, esta recogido 2 cazas volaron muy cerca minutos antes , no lo derribo un caza

“If kiev authorities want to tell the truth, It´s gathered, 2 jet fighters flew very close minutes before, wasn’t downed by a fighter”

12:00 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Nada más desaparecer el avión B 777 de Malaysia Airlines la autoridad militar de kiev nos informo del derribo, como lo sabían?

“Malaysia Airlines B777 plane just disappeared and Kiev military authority informed us of the downing, How they knew?”

12:00 – 17 de jul. de 2014 A los 7:00 minutos se notificó el derribo, más tarde se tomó la torre nuestra con personal extranjero q siguen aquí

“7:00 minutes after [plane dissapeared], the downing was notified, later our tower was taken with foreigner staff, they still here ”

12:01 – 17 de jul. de 2014 En los radares esta todo recogido, para los incrédulos, derribado por kiev, aquí lo sabemos y control aéreo militar también

“all this is gathered in radars, to the unbelieving, shot down by kiev, here we know it and military air traffic control also”

13:15 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Aquí los mandos militares manejan y admiten que militares a otras órdenes, pudieron ser, pero no, los pro-rusos

“Here the military commanders manage and support it could be military following other orders , but no, the pro-Russian”

13:29 – 17 de jul. de 2014 El ministro del interior si conocía que, hacían los cazas en la zona, el ministro de defensa no, .

“Interior Minister knew what the fighters were doing in the area, the defense minister didn’t.”

13:31 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Militares confirman que fue ukraine, pero se sigue sin saber de donde vino la orden

“Military confirm It was Ukraine, but still does not know where the order came from”

13:36 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Hace dias lo dije aquí, militares de kiev querían alzarse contra el actual presidente, esto puede ser una forma, a las órdenes de timoshenko

“Days ago I said here, kiev military wanted to rise against the current president, this may be a way, ordered by timoshenko [following timishenko orders]”

13:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Los cazas volaron cerca del 777, hasta 3 minutos antes de desaparecer de los radares, solo 3 minutos

“The fighters flew close to 777, up to 3 minutes before disappearing from the radar, just 3 minutes”

13:43 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Se cierra el espacio aéreo

“Airspace closed”

13:45 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Se cierra el espacio aéreo, por miedo a más derribos

“Airspace is closed, more downings feared”

15:17 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Control militar entrega ahora mismo de forma oficial que el avión fue derribado por misil

“military control now officially [say] the plane was shot down by missile”

15:23 – 17 de jul. de 2014 El informe oficial firmado por las autoridades militares de control de kiev ya lo tiene el gobierno,,,, , derribado

“Government has the official report signed by the control military authorities in Kiev,,,, [plane] shot down”

15:26 – 17 de jul. de 2014 En el informe se indica de donde abría salido el misil, y se especifica que no proviene de las autodefensa en las zonas rebeldes

“The report indicates where the missile had come out [from], and specified is not from the selfdefence in rebel areas”

15:34 – 17 de jul. de 2014Los radares militares si recogieron los datos del misil lanzado al avión, los radares civiles no

“Military radar collected data from missile fired to the plane, civilian radars didn’t”

15:36 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Los altos mandos militares no ordenaron el lanzamiento del misil, ,,alguien se le fue la mano en nombre de ukraine

“military high command did not gave the order to fire the missile, someone screw it ine the name of ukraine”

15:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Para el que no lo sepa, digamos así, hay militares a las órdenes del ministro de defensa y militares a las órdenes del ministro del interior

“For those who do not know, Let’s say, there are military under the orders of the defense minister and military under the orders of Interior Minister”

15:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Los militares a las órdenes del ministro del interior conocían en cada momento lo que sucedió, .

“The military under the orders of Interior Minister knew what happened all the time .”

16:06 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Mandos militares aquí (ATC) torre de control, confirman que el misil es del ejercito de ukraine,

“Military commanders here (ATC) control tower, confirm that the missile is from the ukranian army,”

16:07 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Mandos militares que si lo sabían y otros mandos que no,

“military commanders that knew it and others didn´t ,”

16:08 – 17 de jul. de 2014 290 personas inocentes muertas, . Por una guerra inútil, donde el patriotismo se compra con dinero

“290 dead innocent people. What a useless war, where patriotism is bought with money”

16:09 – 17 de jul. de 2014 La forma de tomar la torre de control minutos después sabiendo todo los detalles, rápido nos hizo pensar que habían sido ellos

“Thw way the control tower was taken minutes after & knowing all the details, made us think that they [made it]”

16:10 – 17 de jul. de 2014 La cara de los militares que llegaron más tarde diciendo pero que habéis echo, no dejo dudas

“The face of the soldiers who came later saying [what you just did], no chance for doubts”

16:12 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Es tal la decadencia que los militares acompañados de extranjeros que llegaron primero nos llegaron a pedir que dijéramos su versión

“Such is the decline that military who came first accompanied by foreigners came to us asking us to tell their version”

16:13 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Nuestra respuesta, fue, estos radares no recogen el lanzamiento de misiles, los militares si, ya no quedaban dudas

“Our response was, these radars do not collect the launching of missiles, the military ones does, there were no doubts”

Content from External Source
Can this be trusted? How do we know it's from someone actually working in Kiev ATC.. It just doesn't make any sense that the Ukranian Government would pull a "false flag" here and try to make Russia look guilty. With all the technology in the area the truth will surely come out. I wouldn't be surprised if this is missinformation on the Russian's behalf, but I could be wrong. No media outlets are reporting this as well, but the all are reporting the intercepted converstation between Russian Separatist and RGU or Russian Intelligence.

It would be absolutely foolish to shoot down an aircraft and then blame it on someone else. Not a lot of intelligent thinking going on there. Maybe Kiev ATC instructed them to take that flight path for what ever reason, and the military seized control to gather as much evidence as possible, and probably because they thought it was an act of war. If a plane gets shot down by a missile it's probably protocal to take control of ATC, to monitor the airspace.
 
the claim is that the intercepted sound file's time stamp is before the actual crash ergo there is some funny business going on. I dont know if its legit or not

The timestamp error is apparently due to the YouTube encoding servers being behind by 1 day?

See analysis at

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forum...thurt-thread&p=7284980&viewfull=1#post7284980

The Military Photos poster also highlights Presidents Obama speech on the MH17 tragedy being 'uploaded on the 16th' due to the encoding servers being behind.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forum...thurt-thread&p=7285000&viewfull=1#post7285000

I'm sure Mick can do a debunk thread as the DAHBOO77 video is picking up momentum on the conspiracy mill?

 
Obama confirmed in a press conference today (18th) that the missile was fired from rebel-held territory.
"Evidence indicates that the plane was shot down by a surface-to-air missile that was launched from an area that is controlled by Russian-backed separatists inside of Ukraine," Obama said. "Moreover, we know that these separatists have received a steady flow of support from Russia. This includes arms and training. It includes heavy weapons"
Content from External Source
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-statement-ukraine-mh-17-crash-2014-7#ixzz37qFXgp9N
How do the Ukrainians get a Buk system into rebel-held territory (and back out again) without anyone noticing?
 
And we can't forget that the Separatist were responsible for shooting down a SU-25 on July 14th. Supposedly 2 were shot down, but the Ukranians are claiming one of them were shot down by Russian Airforce. Not too mention they claim a ZRK “9K37M1″ (better known as a Buk) was resonsible for shooting down the SU-25
1). Vzglyad.ru, one of the top pro-government Russian newspapers, reported the story of the “downed transport plane” on 17 July at 18:18, first citing an eye-witness:

“‘At about 16:00 local time an AN-26 was flying over the city. We saw how a missile flew at it, an explosion was heard, the plane fell to the earth, and leaving behind black smoke. Some pieces showered from the sky,’ RIA Novosti reported, and a video with the scene was also uploaded in confirmation of the agency’s sources.”

The eye-witness said the plane fell in the area of the Progress mine, away from residential apartments — which was exactly the information in “Strelkov’s Dispatches”.

Vzglyad added that the separatists had set up anti-aircraft weapons at the Saur-Mogila mound in Snezhnoye and on 14 July had downed two SU-25 planes in this area. Kiev confirmed one loss and said that one of the Ukrainian SU-25 was downed by a Russian war plane. Then Vzglyad added this piece of news, not removed:

“Ukrainian military claim that the losses were caused by actions by Russia. The militia refuted this information, correcting that they had shot down the plane from a ZRK “9K37M1″ (better known as a Buk).”

Content from External Source
 
Interesting, the sheer scale of conflicting accusations. My suspicion is that ultimately it will be determined to have been the separatists using Russian supplied weapons, and targeting a civilian plane by accident, but Russia wants to promote these conflicting stories to create advantageous confusion.
 
Can this be trusted? How do we know it's from someone actually working in Kiev ATC.. It just doesn't make any sense that the Ukranian Government would pull a "false flag" here and try to make Russia look guilty.
Here is a separate source confirming that @spainbuca worked in the ATC in Kiev. They also confirm the radar records being immediately confiscated.
http://www.eturbonews.com/48079/ukraine-air-traffic-controller-suggests-kiev-military-shot-down-
ETN received information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board.

The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.
Content from External Source
I'm not suggesting the Ukrainian military pulled a false flag. Perhaps it was just a mistake. But it certainly appears that the Ukrainian military was involved given this first hand eye witness testimony. Especially given the incredibly quick response time. They beat NORAD's response to 9/11 by about 2500% in terms of time. And they are a rag tag bankrupt fledgling state...
 
I'm not suggesting the Ukrainian military pulled a false flag. Perhaps it was just a mistake. But it certainly appears that the military was involved. Especially given the incredibly quick response time. They beat NORAD's response to 9/11 by about 2500% in terms of time. And they are a rag tag bankrupt fledgling state...
But the US wasn't a war torn region at the time. I would also suspect that the military in that part of the world is already an integral part of the airport and ATC. So it's much different in that respect.
 
And, of course, this is going to be a common theme:

Screen Shot 2014-07-18 at 18.36.28.png

http://www.infowars.com/video-did-ukraine-fabricate-evidence-to-frame-russia-for-mh17-shoot-down/

Interesting, the sheer scale of conflicting accusations.

You only have to look at PanAm 103 or Iran Air 655 to see why this is going to be true. We've got American TLAs, expelled Russian oligarchs and Putin (ex KGB) all clamouring to make this work for them and for the more conspiracy-oriented the timing of the Gaza offensive is going to figure as well.
 
The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.
So we have a guy from Spain who was working in Kiev ATC saying he thinks the military was behind the shooting down of this airplane all because they came into ATC and seized control, and they only got rid of the foreign ATCers. Sounds a bit far fetched to be honest with you. On one hand we have recorded converations and on the other we have the word of a guy who claims he works in ATC.
 
Interesting, the sheer scale of conflicting accusations. My suspicion is that ultimately it will be determined to have been the separatists using Russian supplied weapons, and targeting a civilian plane by accident, but Russia wants to promote these conflicting stories to create advantageous confusion
Don't forget that the globalists who fund the military industrial complex also want to promote advantageous confusion. I think the term "Order out of Chaos" was popularized by Zbigniew Brzezinski. Him and Kissinger love this kind of garbage.
 
Don't forget that the globalists who fund the military industrial complex also want to promote advantageous confusion. I think the term "Order out of Chaos" was popularized by Zbigniew Brzezinski. Him and Kissinger love this kind of garbage.
As soulfly said above, how could the Ukranians have gotten a buk system into russian separatist territory, then fired a rocket to hit the plane, and leave the territory without being noticed.
 
As soulfly said above, how could the Ukranians have gotten a buk system into russian separatist territory, then fired a rocket to hit the plane, and leave the territory without being noticed.
How do you know the rocket was fired from separatist territory? Were the confiscated radar records released? I'm confused. I think I read the whole thread, but I didn't see any proof of where the missile came from.
 
How do you know the rocket was fired from separatist territory? Were the confiscated radar records released? I'm confused. I think I read the whole thread, but I didn't see any proof of where the missile came from.

All we know is the Americans are saying it was shot down, and from rebel-held territory. The 'other side' is claiming to not have any equipment capable of doing this but there's substantial open-source intel disproving this, be it their own claims of capturing a BUK or the contemporaneous reports of them shooting down a transport plane, which were subsequently cleansed. (Edit - and the AN26 shootdown Monday, which was at 21K feet. No known MANPAD could have achieved this).

And of course, planes tend to remain aloft absent any external factors. At the very worst they declare an emergency, which apparently didn't happen here, suggesting sudden and total failure.
 
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Here is a separate source
That's the same article, ETN Global Travel Industry News is the "Industry Outlet" that claims to have confirmed the identity of the source but the first site you linked has done none of its own investigations

http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/20...rport-ukraine-military-shot-down-boeing-mh17/

FLASH UPDATE: Industry Outlet Confirms Carlos (@spainbuca) as ATC at Borispol in Kiev

(See the Text of Carlos / @spainbuca Tweets Below the Article)

Original: EturboNews (ETN Global Travel Industry News) – July 17, 2014

...

ETN statement: The information in this article is independently confirmed and based on the statement of one airline controller and other tweets received
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How do you know the rocket was fired from separatist territory? Were the confiscated radar records released? I'm confused. I think I read the whole thread, but I didn't see any proof of where the missile came from.
The President of the United States was just on Television saying based on the information at hand he believes it was fired from the Separatist territory while using Russian weapons...
"Evidence indicates that the plane was shot down by a surface-to-air missile that was launched from an area that is controlled by Russian-backed separatists inside of Ukraine," Obama said. "Moreover, we know that these separatists have received a steady flow of support from Russia. This includes arms and training. It includes heavy weapons"
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I trust this more than some spanish ATCer in Kiev.

http://www.interpretermag.com/was-col-strelkovs-dispatch-about-a-downed-ukrainian-plane-authentic/
Here is a translation by The Interpreter of the dispatch as it originally appeared at Svodki Strelkova Igora Ivanovicha, or “Igor Ivanovich Strelkov’s Dispatches”, a community at the popular Russian social networking site VKontakte:

In the area of Torez, we have just shot down an AN-26 airplane, it is scattered about somewhere by the Progress coal mine.

We warned them – don’t fly ‘in our sky.’

Here is a video confirmation of the latest ‘bird drop.’

The bird fell beyond the slag heap, it did not damage the residential sector.

Civilians were not hurt.

There is also information about a second downed airplane, apparently an SU.


As we reported 17 July, this post that originally appeared on the “Strelkov’s Dispatches” VKontakte group showed that the pro-Russian separatists were boasting about having downed yet another Ukrainian airplane — or maybe even two — just as they had done on 14 July with a powerful anti-aircraft system in Krasnodon.
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http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson...t-resigns-over-coverage-of-ukranian?bftw=main

Firth, who joined the channel in 2009, told BuzzFeed that she decided to resign from the Kremlin-funded news channel because she felt it was “disrespectfully” attempting to pin the blame for Thursday’s Malaysia Airlines disaster on the Ukrainian government.

“When this story broke I ran back into the newsroom and saw how we were covering it already and I just knew I had to go,” she said.

“It was the total disregard to the facts. We threw up eyewitness accounts from someone on the ground openly accusing the Ukrainian government [of involvement in the disaster], and a correspondent in the studio pulled up a plane crash before that the Ukrainian government had been involved in and said it was ‘worth mentioning’.

“It’s not worth mentioning. It’s Russia Today all over, it’s flirting with that border of overtly lying. You’re not telling a lie, you’re just bringing something up. I didn’t want to watch a story like that, where people have lost loved ones and we’re handling it like that.

“I couldn’t do it any more. Every single day we’re lying and finding sexier ways to do it.”
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I looks like the Ukrainian military responded orders of magnitude faster than NORAD did to 9/11. How ironic! The speed of their response, however, is a little bit questionable and leads me to believe they are covering up their own involvement.

Ever considered that the twitter reports from the claimed Spanish Air Traffic Controller were a fake in the first place? 'Carlos' has history with Russia Today and a gripe with the Ukrainians. Apparently he left Ukraine after death threats in May so why was he so keen to go back and work with the present government's ATC services?

Either that or one of the very active pro-russian internet brigade hacked his Twitter to put out an easy bit of propaganda?

 
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Ever considered that the twitter reports from the claimed Spanish Air Traffic Controller were a fake in the first place? 'Carlos' has history with Russia Today and a gripe with the Ukrainans. Apparently he left Ukraine after death threats in May so why was he so keen to go back and work with the present government's ATC services?
This is all in spanish with no translations. But from my crappy understanding of spanish I believe that he said he sent his family back to Ukraine and not that he went back himself. If someone with better spanish could confirm that would be great...
 
NB the casualties are now numbered at 298 (thread title)

A witness on C4 news was displaying an "American credit card" which to me looked to say "CHASE America" on it, so I suspect US fatalities. Dual-passport holders complicate things.


Authorities have updated the death toll to 298 people killed when Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over Ukraine, near the Russian border, to include three infants not counted earlier.

That number includes: 189 Dutch nationals, 44 Malaysians, 27 Australians, 12 Indonesians, nine passengers believed to be from the UK, four each from Germany and Belgium, three from the Philippines, one Canadian and one from New Zealand. The nationalities of four passengers have not yet been verified.
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OT: I also heard a report on CNN that there was an Australian lady who lost loved ones on both malaysian flights. Must be so horrible for her. I will try to find the story.
 
C4 news also just showed footage of a BUK firing, and it was one of the inner pair (of 4) launched first. So no evidence for/against that fleeing BUK from this avenue.
 
NB the casualties are now numbered at 298 (thread title)

A witness on C4 news was displaying an "American credit card" which to me looked to say "CHASE America" on it, so I suspect US fatalities. Dual-passport holders complicate things.


Authorities have updated the death toll to 298 people killed when Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over Ukraine, near the Russian border, to include three infants not counted earlier.

That number includes: 189 Dutch nationals, 44 Malaysians, 27 Australians, 12 Indonesians, nine passengers believed to be from the UK, four each from Germany and Belgium, three from the Philippines, one Canadian and one from New Zealand. The nationalities of four passengers have not yet been verified.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...3-US-citizens-aboard-flight-shot-Ukraine.html
THE VICTIMS OF MH17: WHERE DID THEY COME FROM?
Netherlands: 154 victims

Malaysia: 43 victims (including 15 crew & 2 infants)

Australia: 27 victims

Indonesia: 12 victims (including 1 infant)

United Kingdom: 9 victims

Germany: 4 victims

Belgium: 4 victims

Philippines: 3 victims

Canada: 1 victim

Unverified: 41

I've been hearing reports that there could be as much as 23 Americans aboard MH17, but the State Department is still sifting through the passenger list to verify the actual number... Does anyone know why it could be taking so long, I've seen rumors about dual citizenship being a reason why its taking so long?

 
Obama said that at least one American was among those killed in the crash. He later identified the man as Quinn Lucas Schansman, a dual Dutch-U.S. citizen.
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http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-statement-ukraine-mh-17-crash-2014-7#ixzz37qFXgp9N
OT: I remember you asked if this could bankrupt Malaysian airlines, here's an article that discusses this; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10977185/Will-Malaysia-Airlines-survive.html
The airline’s stock closed 11 per cent down as investors displayed anxiety at the airline’s prospects.

Even though the loss of Malaysia Airlines’ second Boeing 777 in months was the result of terrorism, there were signs that passengers were reluctant to risk boarding its aircraft.

The airline reacted swiftly, offering to refund the cost of tickets to anyone who did not want to travel.

“My instinct, judging by what happened after the disappearance of MH370 is we will see a drop in bookings and the airline will then start to discount its fares,” one industry expert said.
According to airfleets.com, Malaysia’s Boeing 777-200ERs are on average 14 years old, making it one of the world’s oldest.

Even without the dent to its reputation, Malaysia would have been under pressure to renew at least part of its fleet, which will be difficult for a carrier which reported quarterly losses of more than $100 million (£59 million) in February and an annual loss of $300 million (£176 million) last year
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Obama said that at least one American was among those killed in the crash. He later identified the man as Quinn Lucas Schansman, a dual Dutch-U.S. citizen.
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http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-statement-ukraine-mh-17-crash-2014-7#ixzz37qFXgp9N
I also thought this was key to Obama's press conference and relates to what @Mick West attached above, about how the Russian Government is involved in missinformation and propaganda.
The eyes of the world are on Ukraine," Obama said Friday. "We're going to make sure the truth gets out. ... We don't have time for propaganda. We don't have time for games.
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I don't care who is at fault. I just want them to admit it and make sure it never happens again. I could care less if they want to have a war and kill each other. Just leave the innocents out of it.
 
I don't care who is at fault. I just want them to admit it and make sure it never happens again. I could care less if they want to have a war and kill each other. Just leave the innocents out of it.
It's impossible to have a war without killing innocents.
 
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