Debunked: Bundy Ranch Dispute as BLM exploiting Fracking Rights

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no your link says :
Nevertheless, residents’ rates may go up due to 85 percent of the district’s revenue coming from water sales
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my cl&p rates went up 25% this winter ; (

In the budget meeting April 3, the board and staff realized the budget would fall short and made attempts to narrow the difference between revenue and expenses by cutting costs of living salary increases, cosmetic improvements to the office and repaving of the parking lot among others.

The VVWD says the shortfall is not due to ongoing litigation costs but infrastructure shortfalls.
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nothing to do with litigation fees ? yea sure
 
Cows do not enrich the desert, especially when you put more of them on a patch of land than it can support.



True. It is mostly about trespassing.
No its about Water . enrich a desert ? no nuclear waste does and bomb testing ?
 
No.

Nevertheless, residents’ rates may go up due to 85 percent of the district’s revenue coming from water sales.
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The district makes 85% of its money selling water. Does not mention an esimated increase.
you are correct I misread that .Must be my dyslexia . Its says a increase but doesnt say how much of a increase .
 
These ranchers don't run cattle on just their 'own land'. They buy 'grazing leases' to BLM and other Federal lands. They also agree to abide by the terms of the lease, which means they have to do what BLM wants done (reducing herds to avoid overgrazing land in drought conditions, for example). If they don't abide by it, then they lose their lease, as was done in this case.
It happens all the time. But this rancher hasn't paid in 21 years now, so he is losing his herd the hard way, and that is a shame, because it is calving season.

Just remember, This person is grazing on PUBLIC LANDS, not on his own lands, without PAYING ANY FEES.
If he was grazing his cattle on his neighbor's land, under the same terms, it wouldn't have taken 21 years to get his herd off the land.

Bundy is a rural freeloader trying to illegally scam the system at the taxpayers expense, no different than an urban welfare queen. Grazing fees charged by the government are about 1/10 of the grazing fees charged by private land owners, but Bundy does even want to pay this nominal amount.

In the guise of bullshit patriotism, Bundy is getting rich, paying nothing, and giving nothing back.
 
I hope this contribution from a WebBlog ("podcast" source) called "The Majority Report" adds some illumination.

Matt Ford, fellow at The Atlantic, joins us to explain who owns the land at Bundy Ranch, how Nevada's history undermines Cliven Bundy's claims, how the Bundy Ranch saga has become a rallying point for the militia, libertarian, federalists movements and how Nevadans view Bundy Ranch situation...
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ETA: Near the end of this (admittedly a bit long) video, which is an interview by phone with Matt Ford BTW, this point is raised:

(Paraphrased): "What if Cliven Bundy's cattle were trespassing on some OTHER landowner's acreage? And, if Mr. Bundy refused to properly compensate this other landowner? Would, then, these right-wing gun-toting 'militia' people have rallied to Mr. Bundy's "defense"?
 
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Seems like they just keep flitting from one things to the next. Fracking, Solar Power, Water .... and they keep getting debunked. It's just stuff to rile up the troops.

An addendum to my post #207 on this topic. A short video, and a personal, unsolicited opinion made by a caller to the "podcast":

A listener calls into the show to share a report that shows that the Koch Brothers are fanning the flames at Bundy Ranch in an effort to get their corporate libertarian ways...
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(This seems like excellent 'MetaBunk" material to affirm, or to call out as "bunk". The Koch Brothers, for those who are not familiar, are renowned in recent years as having huge sums of wealth that allow them to influence American politics in many, many ways...to what is considered the "Right-Wing" side of the political spectrum):

[/EX]
 
I have to interject my anger at people bashing Nevada on this whole thread.

1- NOT ALL OF NEVADA IS A DESERT. Ok, lots of it is. Yes we tested bombs here 50-60 years ago. None of that gives any credence to making Nevada less of a place for us to live in. Also whoever keeps saying we are storing nuclear waste just needs to stop his silliness. WE DON'T store it! We Nevadans have fought against the Yucca Mountain storage facility and have more or less won by keeping it from being filled.

2- Most of the conservatives seem to ignore that not only did Bundy trespass on lands NOT belonging to him, but he also trespassed on protected national park land. I guess if I have enough guns and angry white people on my side I can just set up a narco empire in Yosemite growing weed and coke plants.

3- Maybe, just maybe, this rancher is facing these restrictions because the land can't support his massive herd, and the government has been trying to get him off the land.

4- My biggest gripe is that this idiot seems to say in conferences that his family has had these rights forever. So let me get this straight, the Viscount of the Mojave bequeathed in perpetuity use of lands, but these high luminary forgot to set these rights and freedoms down on paper? Well the King in the West gave me Las Vegas and Primm so now I want tolls collected at state line for EVERY car passing through my kingdom. Oh wait- this man sounds seriously disturbed and itching for a fight with the government, and the damn coward is willing to put women and children in the way. That's courage and class there.
 
Oh wait- this man sounds seriously disturbed and itching for a fight with the government, and the damn coward is willing to put women and children in the way. That's courage and class there.

I think this about sums up the "mentality" at issue, here!

I want to add....Cliven Bundy has said in public that he does not "recognize" the existence of the United States of America. This, by itself, draws concern as to his actual mental health state.
 
An addendum to my post #207 on this topic. A short video, and a personal, unsolicited opinion made by a caller to the "podcast":

A listener calls into the show to share a report that shows that the Koch Brothers are fanning the flames at Bundy Ranch in an effort to get their corporate libertarian ways...
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(This seems like excellent 'MetaBunk" material to affirm, or to call out as "bunk". The Koch Brothers, for those who are not familiar, are renowned in recent years as having huge sums of wealth that allow them to influence American politics in many, many ways...to what is considered the "Right-Wing" side of the political spectrum):

[/EX]


Here's the Daily Kos article mentioned in that piece:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...-Do-With-Tyranny-Sovereignty-Freedom-or-Cows#
 
And have you actually read that article. It's incredibly short on facts. Bundy only owns 160 acres, and lots of other people own land right next to him. He never had any special water right, and nobody is trying to take away his 160 acres.
Yes I read it along with the story of his neighbor buying foreclosed ranch for 600,000 worth millions of dollars in water rights which he has made millions
Between the 2005 water transaction and the 2008 water transaction, Lonetti made about $17 million dollars. He still owns Meadowland Farm.
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off of and was bribing the water authority with 1.6 million . Lets shoot the guy whos cattle been grazing in the desert ?
 
Here's the Daily Kos....

Oh dear, you know what "they" will say (about the "Daily Kos"!!) The attempt to make this into some sort of "National Pride" nonsense plays to the most base of the people are are completely ill-informed about the Constitution, and the rule of law.

IOW, anti-federal government anarchists. Or, another way to describe them: "Terrorists".
 
Oh dear, you know what "they" will say (about the "Daily Kos"!!) The attempt to make this into some sort of "National Pride" nonsense plays to the most base of the people are are completely ill-informed about the Constitution, and the rule of law.

IOW, anti-federal government anarchists. Or, another way to describe them: "Terrorists".
But millions of Illegal aliens who break the law are OK ? Yet a few men who stopped a potential massacre are terrorist ? Im glad this happened because it exposes the abuse of power in our government . Whether or not Bundy is wrong or right and has to pay doesn't matter because the Feds have been exposed as incompetent idiots once again . Time for the states to take their land back from the feds .
 
Ahh yes.. the same incompetent idiots who are smart enough to come up with these massive grandiose plans, but not smart enough to carry them through without anyone finding out about it. From what I saw, the only idiots on that field were the ones trying to goad the cops into a fight, then heckled them when they left peacefully. That, in and of itself, proves that this supposed fascist police state is a fallacy Joe.. because if it WERE.. 'they' wouldnt be sending in the police, 'they'd' be sending in squads of Marines and putting people down.. or have you forgotten the days of the Iron Curtain already? Everytime there was any kind of civil uprising or unrest, the Military was sent in by the Russian state to quell the civilian populace. There was no negotiating, there was no requesting, there were no writs or warrants.. they literally rolled people over with tank treads and shot the lot.

And it DOES matter whether or not bundy broke the law.. had he not, none of this would have started in the FIRST place.
 
Ahh yes.. the same incompetent idiots who are smart enough to come up with these massive grandiose plans, but not smart enough to carry them through without anyone finding out about it. From what I saw, the only idiots on that field were the ones trying to goad the cops into a fight, then heckled them when they left peacefully. That, in and of itself, proves that this supposed fascist police state is a fallacy Joe.. because if it WERE.. 'they' wouldnt be sending in the police, 'they'd' be sending in squads of Marines and putting people down.. or have you forgotten the days of the Iron Curtain already? Everytime there was any kind of civil uprising or unrest, the Military was sent in by the Russian state to quell the civilian populace. There was no negotiating, there was no requesting, there were no writs or warrants.. they literally rolled people over with tank treads and shot the lot.

And it DOES matter whether or not bundy broke the law.. had he not, none of this would have started in the FIRST place.
what was Ruby Ridge or Waco ? a bunch of Idiots with too much power . and if you and the others think that it all about grazing fees I think your being naive .
 
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Ahh yes.. the same incompetent idiots who are smart enough to come up with these massive grandiose plans, but not smart enough to carry them through without anyone finding out about it. From what I saw, the only idiots on that field were the ones trying to goad the cops into a fight, then heckled them when they left peacefully. That, in and of itself, proves that this supposed fascist police state is a fallacy Joe.. because if it WERE.. 'they' wouldnt be sending in the police, 'they'd' be sending in squads of Marines and putting people down.. or have you forgotten the days of the Iron Curtain already? Everytime there was any kind of civil uprising or unrest, the Military was sent in by the Russian state to quell the civilian populace. There was no negotiating, there was no requesting, there were no writs or warrants.. they literally rolled people over with tank treads and shot the lot.

And it DOES matter whether or not bundy broke the law.. had he not, none of this would have started in the FIRST place.

Sir, we don't always agree on like 90% of stuff, BUT... All of what you said there.. All.
 
Oh dear, you know what "they" will say (about the "Daily Kos"!!) The attempt to make this into some sort of "National Pride" nonsense plays to the most base of the people are are completely ill-informed about the Constitution, and the rule of law.

IOW, anti-federal government anarchists. Or, another way to describe them: "Terrorists".
Sorry but I give The Daily KOS only slightly more credit than I give Infowars. During the Bush administration they were the epitome of biased reporting and unfounded rumors. In addition their reporting seemed to encourage the promotion of the idea that Bush and Bush supporters equaled the NAZI party. That just wasn't the case.
 
I don't understand what this ^^ and water issues of a neighbor have to do with Bundy. Three wrongs don't make a right, any moe than two wrongs.
Because it a left right issue and the left is calling him a lawbreaker yet they defend millions of lawbreakers everyday and want to reward them still ?
 
Sorry but I give The Daily KOS only slightly more credit than I give Infowars. During the Bush administration they were the epitome of biased reporting and unfounded rumors. In addition their reporting seemed to encourage the promotion of the idea that Bush and Bush supporters equaled the NAZI party. That just wasn't the case.

I will gently disagree. Comparing "KOS" to Alex Jones' "InfoWars"???

Come on. Maybe there is hyperbole guilt on both sides, but...."InfoWars" and Alex Jones? He (Jones) must be agreed to be beyond the pale....
 
But millions of Illegal aliens who break the law are OK ? Yet a few men who stopped a potential massacre are terrorist ? Im glad this happened because it exposes the abuse of power in our government . Whether or not Bundy is wrong or right and has to pay doesn't matter because the Feds have been exposed as incompetent idiots once again . Time for the states to take their land back from the feds .


What a cop-out.

Its utterly clear that Bundy is in the wrong, so, instead of admitting that you claim that the government enforcing laws is abusing power and yet cry foul over others breaking laws. You don't see the inherent contradiction in your logic- or lack thereof?
 

March 1993: The Washington Post publishes a story about the federal government's efforts to protect the desert tortoise in Nevada. Near Las Vegas, the Bureau of Land Management designated hundreds of thousands of acres of federal land for strict conservation efforts. "Among the conservation measures required," according to the Post's coverage, "are the elimination of livestock grazing and strict limits on off-road vehicle use in the protected tortoise habitat. Two weeks ago, the managers of the plan completed the task of purchasing grazing privileges from cattle ranchers who formerly used BLM land."

Many people were not impressed by the new conservation plan. "Cliven Bundy, whose family homesteaded his ranch in 1877 and who accuses the government of a 'land grab,' are digging in for a fight and say they will not willingly sell their grazing privileges to create another preserve." People who use the desert to prospect for minerals and to race motorcycles and jeeps also feel shortchanged. "'It was shoved down our throat,' said Mark Trinko, who represents off-road vehicle users on the committee that oversees the plan."

Bundy has repeatedly been fined for grazing his cattle on the protected land, fines he has not paid since 1993. The Bureau of Land Management, which oversees about 800 grazing areas in Nevada, responded by revoking his permit. Bundy has not applied for a new one.
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April 1995: The fight between the Bureau of Land Management and the ranchers who want to use the federal land without fees or oversight is growing more tense, according to a story published in USA Today.

Thursday evening, a small bomb went off in the U.S. Forest Service office in Carson City, Nev.

Though no one has taken responsibility -- and no one was injured -- it has sent chills through government agencies involved in Western land management.

"If it was sent as a message," says Forest Service spokeswoman Erin O'Connor, "we got it."

Ultimately the issue will be settled by the courts, but ranchers who say they can't afford to raise livestock without greater access to public land are taking matters into their own hands -- setting up what some officials fear is an inevitable and dangerous confrontation.

The situation is becoming so tense that federal workers now travel mostly in pairs and are in constant radio contact with district offices.

"I'm concerned about the safety of my employees," says Jim Nelson, Forest Service district manager for Nevada. "They can't go to church in these communities without having someone say something. Their kids are harassed in school. Stores and restaurants are not serving them."

Nelson, who oversees 7 million acres in Nevada, says his agency is just doing its job, which is to ensure that land remains healthy and viable for ranchers and any others who wish to use it.

That goal, he says, is hindered by unattended, free-ranging cows that degrade the state's precious springs and stream banks.

The battle is being called Sagebrush II, a sequel to a 1970s movement that sought a state takeover of federal public lands. Today, many ranchers, miners and loggers argue the federal government never had a legitimate claim to the land.

The reason that things were ramping up? Counties were starting to challenge federal ownership of land. In 1991, Catron County in New Mexico passed an ordinance that claimed state ownership and local management of public land in the state. Thirty five counties followed suit. Nye County, Nevada, became the first to act on its legislated threat. The county commissioner bulldozed his way down a closed national forest road. Forest rangers soon followed, who the county commissioner threatened to arrest if they interfered.

At this point, Cliven Bundy had racked up $31,000 in fees for grazing on federal land without a permit. Helicopters often hover over his herd, counting up the cows so he can be fined appropriately. "They've taken their authority and abused it," Bundy said. "I'm not being regulated to death anymore."

Bundy's neighbors were also angry.

"The federal government just wants control of us. But I'm not going to be controlled," Keith Nay says.

But those seeking greater access to federal land deny they are looking for an old-West shoot-out.

"Do you want to see my weapons?" asks Norm Tom, a Paiute Indian and Nay's son-in-law, who runs about 100 cows on range adjoining Bundy's. He pulls out two copies of the Constitution, one pocket-sized, one full sized.
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March 18, 1996: The federal government, which owns 87 percent of the land in Nevada, is still worried about potential violence if they try to remove illegally grazing cattle from protected land. Two more pipebombs had exploded in Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management offices in the past two years. The Justice Department has 12 lawsuits pending against Nevada cattle ranchers. A federal court in the state struck down the Nye County ordinance that caused trouble the year before. Not that ranchers took that as reason to stand down, however. One local resident told USA Today,"A single district court decision in one district doesn't settle it. It's just a single day in the year of a revolutionary war. We're going to continue on with the fight." Bundy is also continuing to graze on federal lands. "I'm still saying the state of Nevada owns that land, and the federal government has been an encroacher. I'm not moving my cattle. We have ... rights."

Bundy states that his rights derive from the fact his Mormon ancestors were using the land far before the federal government claimed authority over it. One Elko County rancher, Cliff Gardner, has decided to take his case to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, arguing that states' rights mean the federal government has no authority over the land where his cattle graze.

1998: A federal judge issues a permanent injunction against Bundy, ordering him to remove his cattle from the federal lands. He lost an appeal to the San Francisco 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. He represented himself.
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So it was less violent now then it was back then . This is a land grab by the feds and Bundy has been fighting it for years and this is from the Washington Post ? 9th district court ? no wonder he lost the battle ?
 
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Reminds me of ...and I do NOT have a visual, but I once saw a sign by the side of a road, posted by a person selling produce...and it was:

"Sweat Corn"

(Maybe a clever, clever pun....but, I doubt it...)
 
What a cop-out.

Its utterly clear that Bundy is in the wrong, so, instead of admitting that you claim that the government enforcing laws is abusing power and yet cry foul over others breaking laws. You don't see the inherent contradiction in your logic- or lack thereof?
No it started with the land grab years ago and the ranchers being forced out of business . Period !
 
Because it a left right issue and the left is calling him a lawbreaker yet they defend millions of lawbreakers everyday and want to reward them still ?
I'm a conservative Republican and I'm calling him a lawbreaker too.
 
I'm a conservative Republican and I'm calling him a lawbreaker too.
I guess you didnt read the story ? If you were a conservative youd understand what the feds have been doing to the ranchers for years .:(
 
What a cop-out.

Its utterly clear that Bundy is in the wrong, so, instead of admitting that you claim that the government enforcing laws is abusing power and yet cry foul over others breaking laws. You don't see the inherent contradiction in your logic- or lack thereof?
Sorry but I just can't respect either one of them. Would you find it more acceptable if I compared them to Russian Times or Fox News. They are all more concerned with shaping opinion than factual accuracy.
 
I guess you didnt read the story ? If you were a conservative youd understand what the feds have been doing to the ranchers for years .:(
this thread is about BUNDY, not everything under the sun we want to throw in just for the heck of it.
 
I guess you didnt read the story ? If you were a conservative youd understand what the feds have been doing to the ranchers for years .
I've identified as Libertarian since 1980. I see him as a lawbreaker as well. People seem to be grasping at whatever comparison they can find to justify his actions, but he's just a scofflaw and it has caught up to him.
 
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