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  1. James Smith

    James Smith New Member

    The claim is that Dave Wheeler (father of deceased child at Sandy Hook) was caught on video in SWAT uniform and walking around with guns on the day of the shooting. The person in question was captured on multiple occasions walking beside two SWAT members and he was carrying weapons too.

    Claim Source:



    Screenshots:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]




    [​IMG] [​IMG]






    moderator update: Thanks to @MrOctober77 FBI agent identiifed as Special Agent Bill Aldenberg.
    https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-s...m-on-day-of-shooting.t7123/page-2#post-172822
    upload_2015-12-28_10-1-49.


     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2015
  2. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    I'm leaving your video up even though its against posting guidelines as you didnt provide timestamps. What i find so interesting about all these "David Wheeler" vids is that they leave out the part showing him getting dressed.

    Elementary_school_shooting_in_Newtown__C_163730001_20121214194324_640_480.JPG

    Footage of him getting dressed is everywhere online. heres one example, starts at 1 min 27 secs
    http://www.wsj.com/video/children-e...use/9765508C-4E46-4EA7-9D8A-51AED89D6675.html

    [​IMG]

    To anyone even remotely familiar with the real David Wheeler this guy looks nothing like him, head shape is different, David Wheeler never had such a large gut, the whole gait is wrong.

    unfortunately the only pic ii've seen so far of the real David Wheeler at the firehouse that day is a very small shot and his hand is up blocking the sun.

    dwedit1a2.



    There are photos of him exactly one month after the shooting, where basically his hair is too long to have grown in that much from a bald head. January 14, 2013 Sandy Hook Promise event.

    01A0430.
    © Insider Images


    01A0306 (2).
    © Insider Images



    But unless more shots of him at the firehouse are uncovered, OR a much cleareer shot of the FBI guy without his chin strap (Wheeler has a deep cleft chin)- i think the hoaxers will just keep beating this drum.


    *the photo at the firehouse of the real D.Wheeler, btw in case anyone is wondering, is in the driveway of the school entrance next to the firehouse. Mr. Wheeler is facing the school and Sunnyside Drive is behind them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2015
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  3. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    A closer examination of higher resolution photos shows they are different people
    [​IMG]
    There's a variety of differences around the mouth, but also the ears are different size and shape - the above three images are scaled for eye spacing, and the ear on SWAT guy does not match Wheeler's.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2015
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  4. James Smith

    James Smith New Member

    The helmet strap could affect the ear shape, no?

    The photo of Dave Wheeler holding up hand in the first reply, is there a high res of that?

    Any proof the guy with the bald head getting dressed is the same guy captured walking?
     
  5. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    Thanks! i can finally read his vest number. wonder if its New Haven 24. (NH-24) Can probably track him down, not sure that will help with the hoaxers though. (actually i am sure- it won't)
     
  6. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    yea the video i linked shows him getting dressed and walking ...the footage in your video. your video just deleted the getting dressed part.

    The Dave Wheeler shot is from ABC live, its a 4 hour video so there may be clearer footage somewhere. But there are hundreds and hundreds of hours of footage online. I personally am not that motivated to look further as most hoaxers will never be convinced, and as far as i'm concerned his Jan 14th pics prove it. (there are videos of hair growth from bald on youtube you can check...his hair is too long).
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    This comparison is bogus:
    [​IMG]
    Because in the higher resolutioin images the SWAT guy's mole is more apparent, but Wheeler does not have one.
    [​IMG]

    Notice also the SWAT guy has deep short facial lines that rise up past the nostrils, but Wheeler by contrast has longer lines that start just below the nostrils.

    I'm marking this debunked, as they are clearly different people.
     
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  8. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Last edited: Dec 23, 2015
  9. James Smith

    James Smith New Member

    Wheeler seems to have that bump here though:

    [​IMG]

    Frowning and smiling produce dramatically different facial lines. Frowning, which appears to the facial expression in the SWAT photo, raises the cheeks and shortens the facial lines.
     
  10. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    If you want to make this point, you should demonstrate it.
     
  11. James Smith

    James Smith New Member

    It certainly appears to be the same person based on clothing and bodyfat level. If only the guy didn't have sunglasses on this would be very easy to debunk.
     
  12. James Smith

    James Smith New Member

    You want me to demonstrate that different facial expressions change your skin lines? I understand proving things is important but this is quite obvious. Anyone can put their hand on their face and pull different expressions to feel the changes.

    I just placed my hand over my mouth & nostril area, squinted (looking into the distance) and then smiled. It was very clear my facial structure rearranged.
     
  13. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Post photos of yourself that demonstrate the changes you think are happening in these photos. Ideally with a similar helmet.
     
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  14. Chew

    Chew Senior Member

    The bumps are in different locations.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    There's sufficient difference to say they are not the same person, but on a more general note, two people looking somewhat alike is not at all uncommon. When you've got a scene with thousands of people, then you will find some of them that look somewhat alike. If you want to go beyond this and prove they are the same person, then you need a lot more than some low resolution photos showing only generic features.
    [​IMG]
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. MikeG

    MikeG Senior Member

    Bodyfat level? Could you explain that? It sounds objective, but I suspect it may not be.
     
  17. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

  18. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    he's talking about the FBI guy in the long sleeve brown shirt. but basically as you watch him get dressed you see the crotch flap on his gear, the same gun..his two buddies with him also getting dressed then walking together. Its the same guy. (the bald guy getting dressed and the guy in the helmet)
     
  19. NoParty

    NoParty Senior Member

    I probably belong in the subset "Anyone."

    I just tried to replicate your "Experimenting with Facial Expressions to Try to Move Deep Creases" test,
    and could not create anything approximating the difference between the 'SWAT guy' & Dave Wheeler.

    Besides, since neither man is touching their face in either picture the "Pull on Your Face" test is moot, to boot.

    We never have a great look at 'SWAT guy' without a helmet...
    but the best shot we do have suggests that his right ear alone disqualifies him a match with Wheeler.

    And of course, this is just (some of the flaws in) the visual comparison...the bigger question is
    "What the hell sense does this theory make?" You've got a guy you know is going to be close-up,
    on camera, as the parent of a shot child...but you (for absolutely no good reason) put him in front
    of lots of cameras, on shooting day, playing a totally unnecessary role as yet another responder :rolleyes:.

    I realize that this "Barry Soetoro" YouTuber pathologically tries to make everything about Obama
    and guns...but he can't even dream up a sensible motive to make this nonsense remotely plausible.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2015
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  20. Balance

    Balance Senior Member

    I thought it was Dan Aykroyd.
     
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  21. Landru

    Landru Moderator Staff Member

    I feel this thread does not belong on Metabunk as the OP doesn't meet the PGs and the subject is obscure at best.
     
  22. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    That's a better match than Wheeler
    [​IMG]
     
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  23. Chew

    Chew Senior Member

    The ears are an identical match!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  24. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    It's a fairly specific claim of evidence. The claim is that they appear to be the same person in these photos. The claim can also be investigated and debunked.

    It's rather marginal, as it's not a very good claim of evidence. But I think it's useful occasionally to address these fringe claims, as there are vulnerable people out there who can fall for nonsense like this.
     
  25. tadaaa

    tadaaa Active Member

    again simple "logic" it really is like kryptonite to 99.999% of this distasteful rubbish - surely people have better things to do!!!!!!
     
  26. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    the claim is pretty viral lately.
     
  27. James Smith

    James Smith New Member

    I agree the idea behind the claim doesn't make sense on the surface (having a father actor play the SWAT guy), however that's deviating from the claim and is frankly, a fantasy, where you pretend to know all the possible reasons something might happen. You don't know everything and shouldn't rule things until their unarguable.

    Stating "the ears don't match" is comparable to "the mole is the same", it's a guess, however the difference being there are multiple similar features. In other words, if I give you 5 things, you can't give me 1 back and expect it to be "case closed". Additionally, saying "other people look similar too" doesn't rule out Wheeler.

    Can we put Wheeler somewhere else?
    No

    Is it proven the bald guy isn't Wheeler?
    Partially because of hair growth. However, do we have accurate data on hair growth? I watched a few videos (as advised) and wasn't convinced either way. Even if we have data, would it be applicable to every single person?

    Is the guy in question even the bald guy (getting dressed beforehand)?
    We don't know yet
     
  28. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    that's funny..when i was looking through photos of the New Haven swat competition i found Obama! I wasnt gonna mention it, but since you brought it up....

    oo.PNG
     
  29. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    yes. its not his fault you cant recognize him.

    of course its the same guy. can you point out 1 single thing on him or his friends that is different from when they walk around the corner with his helmet on? They are parked in the Senior Center parkinglot, get dressed and walk around the school sign and into the driveway (Dickensen). If you can't tell he is the same guy (bald and helmet)-with all their gadgets and clothes matching- then trying to provide you evidence is kinda futile.
     
  30. Landru

    Landru Moderator Staff Member

    Only among the fringe of the fringe. The OP not meeting PGS was enough for me but I saw it in Moderation and let others decide.
     
  31. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    I approved it because I've been seeing it everywhere. Everything about SH is only the fringe of the fringe. Theres been a little xtra push because of this James Tracy thing.
     
  32. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    You've got it backwards. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you can't give any evidence other than "they look a bit similar, even though their faces are different, and the SWAT guy is bald", then you've really got nothing, and certainly nothing that needs to be ruled out.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  33. Chew

    Chew Senior Member

    Of course we can. Because all 5 things must match exactly or it's not the same guy.
     
  34. NoParty

    NoParty Senior Member

    No offense, James, but I think one can make a better argument for the Dan Aykroyd pic, than Wheeler.

    You're right, my bit about the utter absurdity of putting this particular guy in front of cameras
    (on the shooting day) is on the margin...but I think it needs to be in the mix: Why fret and hand-wring
    through dozens of posts, since the low quality of the "SWAT guy" images will leave few satisfied...
    when there isn't even the flimsiest yarn offered for why one guy might really, secretly, be another. :rolleyes:

    The CTs and charlatans exploit and manipulate every little crevice they can...this YouTuber only gets away
    with it (well, swaying CT believers, anyway) because we don't have great, hi-def shots of an un-helmeted SWAT guy.
    If and when those pics surface, it will be easier--and even more irrefutable--to show the differences.
    Most will then give up on this flavor-of-the-day, though the ones that really believe The Matrix is real, will hang on.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  35. RaceBanyon

    RaceBanyon New Member

    At most, a helmet strap would pull back the top of the ear. Their lobes are vastly different and a helmet strap would in no way impact that. David also has a much sharper, much more prominent antihelix.

    Here's another picture of the sniper, from the back:

    [​IMG]

    Look at the space on the back of his head, between his strap and his helmet: he's bald. This is consistent with the video of him getting dressed. Everything matches up. This is very clearly not David Wheeler.
     
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  36. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    I think the eyebrows look different. Even though the SWAT guy is frowning, the outer part of the eyebrow looks different. Also the neck bulge. The "real" Wheeler has a rounded bulge on his neck.


    pic add by moderator: (i also noted the divets between brows are very different when crunching brows)
    sidebysidew2.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2015
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  37. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    i knew i had seen him before .. this video he walks back to his car at the Senior Center next to the firehouse...up until about 1 min 30.. shows him and the other guy walking back to their cars. this also might be when he puts that beige gun in his car (1:15 looks like both hands are empty)-just since the hoax videos keep asking where his guns disappeared to.




    sc.PNG
    earlier footage of getting dressed
    vv.PNG
     
  38. Balance

    Balance Senior Member

    Your rebuttal is also valid against your own claim.
    Other people may also look similar, but I mentioned a specific person, Dan Aykroyd as that is who it is (my claim to refute your claim and rule out wheeler) in the swat gear.

    Perhaps you're not aware or have forgotten, but Dan is also an original "men in black". Spooky coincidence? I think not!
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  39. JDubyah

    JDubyah Member

    I think you need to start with "Why is there any reason to think the bald guy *is* Wheeler, aside from a superficial resemblance?"

    Because there's no reason to, and in asking to prove it the opposite way just drags pre-existing assumptions and CT theories into it. Obviously, someone was going through the photos and footage looking for 'Crisis Actors' and tried hard to fit a square peg into a round hole to make the evidence fit the theory. If you go in without assuming there are actors in play, no one would ever bother to think these two guys are the same person, so no one would bother to prove they weren't.

    And I like the Dan Aykroyd comparison. He *is* an actor, and maybe he just needed work. I hear crisis acting for the NWO is profitable these days. They went with an all-female cast for the new Ghostbusters, so he needed another gig.
     
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  40. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    Actually, I was referring to these photos. Sorry. 20151223-085944-0aak6.
     
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