1. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    There's been a lot of photos stuck up on the internet without a description of what they are, with the suggestion that they are related to the "chemtrail" theory. I've collected a lot of the earlier ones on contrail science:
    http://contrailscience.com/contrail-or-chemtrail/

    and there's a thread here that collects a lot of the ballast barrel photos:
    https://www.metabunk.org/threads/661-Debunked-Chemtrail-Plane-Interior-(Ballast-Barrels)

    The thing is, these photos all came from somewhere, and that original location had the information about what they were. In every case the person who re-appropriated the photo for the chemtrail story had to deliberately ignore the original description. At best this might be an oversight, but it really seems like it can't be anything more than deliberate deception, a conscious effort to bolster the story by putting up loads of "suspicious" photos which are actually not suspicious at all, if they had told you where they found them, and what they were.

    There's a lot of this going on on Facebook right now. The vast majority of these photos are are posted without attribution and which are then shared by chemtrail enthusiasts to various chemtrail groups as "evidence", when in reality they are anything but.

    While it's usually easy to identify a photo with a Google image search, over time, if a photo gets popular enough then it will end up on hundreds of chemtrail blogs, and spam mirrors of those blogs, and the original source can be harder to track down. For example, the classic image of an icing test nozzle gives nearly 500 results:
    [​IMG]

    So for debunking purposes it's useful to identify the images as soon as possible, which also might help prevent them spreading so fast, and acquiring misleading titles. So this (sticky) thread is intended as a place to post these photos, with links to the original source, and an explanation of what they are. And if anyone seems to be misrepresenting them, then that misrepresentation should be exposed and debunked.

    Guidelines:

    1. One photo per post, so that people can link directly to the post.
    2. Link to the misleading usage
    3. Include the photo as it is used on the Facebook page, so Google can find this page easier
    4. If the Facebook description or comments include misleading or inaccurate information then copy that
    5. Add a link to the original source of the image
    6. Include a copy of the original photo if it is significantly different
    7. Copy text from the original source explaining what it is
    8. Add additional photos of the object/scene if they help understand it
    9. Add your own additional explanation as needed
    The quickest way to identify images to is use Google images
    http://images.google.com
    [​IMG]

    Note, you can't drag images directly from the timeline, click on the image first to view it in "theater" mode, then drag from there.

    I invite the original posters of these photos to respond with corrections to any post below, which you can do by posting here, on my Facebook page, and/or on your facebook page. If I have got anything wrong, please point it out, and I will immediately correct it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
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  2. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...65176835.61035.100003622311420&type=1&theater
    [​IMG]
    No description, one comment:
    ("Liked" by Moon)

    Original Source:
    http://www.cassidian.com/en_US/web/guest/cassidian-produces-1000th-target-drone


    Basically they are small high speed drones used for target practice. Here's one ready to launch:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  3. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...65176835.61035.100003622311420&type=1&theater
    [​IMG]

    Original Source
    http://defenceforumindia.com/aero-india-2013-air-show-rehearsals-by-aircraft-1743

    This is a Rutan Long-EZ at the 2013 Aero India air show.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutan_Long-EZ

    The white trail is not a contrail, it's aerobatic smoke - i.e. smoke specifically intend to leave a trail for use in sky-writing or aerobatic displays. It comes from injecting some kind of oil into the hot exhaust (a "smoke system"). The following photo is from the Wikipedia page:
    [​IMG]

    I'm not entirely sure if the "puff-puff" comes from the alternating exhausts, or it's being chopped by the propellor. But I think more likely the former.

    Here's a smoke system in operation on a different plane:
    http://achtungskyhawk.wordpress.com...tional-airshow-varazdin-11-12-07-2009-part-1/
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  4. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...65176835.61035.100003622311420&type=1&theater
    [​IMG]
    Comments:


    It's not a "super tanker", it's a Super Transporter, the A300-600ST.

    Original Source: http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/stbeluga/

    [​IMG]

    Since the Beluga's payload is 47t (metric tonnes), and the tank weighs 45t, then the only way it's going in the plane is if it's empty. Very obviously this is nothing to do with spraying.

    (Science warning: with dimension of about 17m long, 6m diameter (rounding down to account for wall thickness), that's 17*3*3*3.14 = 480 cubic meters, if it were filled with just water it would weigh 527 metric tons. More than ten times the payload of the Beluga)
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
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  5. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
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  6. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    Not exactly the right place for this, but has anyone managed to figure out how much a contrail cloud might weigh? It strikes me that it would be impossible for them to be entirely 'sprayed' because of the weight issue
     
  7. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Indeed they have, that's the "ice budget" argument, and I really need to write a simple CS post about it.

    https://www.metabunk.org/threads/819-The-Ice-Budget-Argument
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  8. Ross Marsden

    Ross Marsden Senior Member

    There is a 1972 paper about it here:
    Measurements of the Growth of the Ice Budget in a Persisting Contrail


     
  9. TWCobra

    TWCobra Senior Member

    Hi Cairenn,

    The other parameter to know regarding the weight of a contrail is the fuel flow of the particular aircraft. Here is a rough guide of average fuel flows by aircraft type, always remembering that the fuel flow will be higher in the early part of the cruise when the aircraft is heaviest.

    A380: 13,000 kg/Hr
    B747-400: 10,000 kg/hr
    B777: 7,000 kg/hr
    A340-300: 6,600 kg/hr
    A330: 6,000 kg/hr
    B767: 5,000 kg/hr
    B757: 4,000 kg/hr
    B737: 2500 kg/hr
    A320: 2500 kg/hr

    To find the weight of a contrail that persists for one hour apply the fuel flow figures for the applicable type and multiply by 13,000. The result, in metric tonnes, is why chemtrailing is physically impossible.
     
  10. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?....134977926632950.26372.100003622311420&type=1

    [​IMG]

    It's a smoke screen generator, photos from at least 13 years ago.

    Facebook Comments:


    Original Source:
    http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m56.htm
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
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  11. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?....249539065176835.61035.100003622311420&type=1
    [​IMG]

    The implication here is obviously that the tanks of toxic chemicals are being sprayed out of a plane.

    The tank shown here in a 350 gallon steel IBC (Intermediate Bulk Container) a standard container in the chemical industry.This looks like one made by Hoover, the Liquitote brand:
    http://www.hooversolutions.com/liquitote-ibc.html

    Barium acetate is an industrial chemical used in printing. All this image shows is that Barium acetate solution exists, and is sometimes shipped in IBCs.

    The "UN" might seem like a nefarious reference to the United Nations (and hence the New World Order). It actually DOES refer to the United Nations, UN3287 is simply a United Nations identifier meaning "Toxic Liquid, inorganic", like it says on the print-put there.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UN_numbers_3201_to_3300
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
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  12. justanairlinepilot

    justanairlinepilot Active Member

    We see UN all the time in training. We are not allowed to ship hazardous materials on our passenger commercial aircraft (liability) but we are still responsible for recognizing the material for the possibility it gets put on the aircraft.
     
  13. justanairlinepilot

    justanairlinepilot Active Member

    How do you find this shit? Good stuff!
     
  14. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    bla bla bla...how much do they pay you for bla bla? i have hundreds of photos and footages from Portugal...if you whant i can show them to you...
     
  15. Mattnik

    Mattnik Moderator

    Select, say, the 5 that best support what you believe are chemtrails and go for it. Date and location of each will be useful too.
     
  16. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member


    Why [...] Can't you be polite?
     
  17. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    A supposed "chemtrail factory"

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...65176835.61035.100003622311420&type=1&theater
    [​IMG]

    This is Henan Sicheng Co., Ltd formarly the Zhengzhou Haixu Abrasives Co in Gaocun Xiang, Xingyang City, Zhengzhou, Henan, China
    http://zzhaixu.en.alibaba.com/
    [​IMG]

    http://sichengtrade.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html
    [​IMG]


    Abrasives are things like the coating for sandpaper, which is a very common use of Alumina (Aluminum Oxide).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_oxide#Applications


    And being as it's so hard and abrasive, it's the last thing you'd want to put though a jet engine.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
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  18. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  19. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
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  20. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    Last edited by Mick; Today at 11:10 AM. Reason: politeness, it's reciprocal

    All I remember about what I posted here is......I tried to BE polite, LOL!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  21. ottomaddick

    ottomaddick New Member

    A contrail or anything suspended in the air must have, atmospherically speaking, neutral buoyancy. It could have weight, but weight would affect its ability to remain aloft as it would eventually descend to a lower and presumably warmer level where the moisture would return to a gaseous state. Or...it could descend to a colder altitude where it moisture would form vapor or even a condensate (water in liquid form...we call rain).
    I was happy to find this forum. Mostly because I want to help teach people the difference between science and ignorance. It would seem that these chemtrail nut jobs are trying to put the airline, and aviation business in general out of business. I am not looking forward to a stagecoach ride from Fl to AZ if they get their way.
     
  22. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Contrail fall rate is dependent on particle size, not weight or buoyancy in the normal sense. Ice is a lot denser than air, but very tiny ice crystals had a very high surface area to mass ratio. A long fully developed contrail can weigh hundreds of tons.
     
  23. FreiZeitGeist

    FreiZeitGeist Senior Member

    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2016
  24. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

  25. cloudspotter

    cloudspotter Senior Member

  26. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Last edited: Dec 28, 2013
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  27. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    • Like Like x 1
  28. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...65176835.61035.100003622311420&type=1&theater
    [​IMG]

    This is from:

    http://www.defense.gov/News/NewsArticle.aspx?ID=116894


    High res image:
    http://www.defense.gov/DODCMSShare/NewsStoryPhoto/2012-06/hrs_120624-F-JI045-005.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
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  29. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    I see she has now blocked me. I did message her the info on it.

    The blocking implies that she KNOWS that she is promoting a lie.
     
  30. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    It will just turn into "I'm being harrassed by disinfo agents" in her head.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  31. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    Of course I am sure it will. She did ask for me to friend her, but after the battering I took on the BP spill, I have to limit who sees my wall. My friends were getting harrassed for their comments.
     
  32. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
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  33. TWCobra

    TWCobra Senior Member

    Some fairly startling claims from Madison.... hate emails... sexually offensive names etc etc etc. The last sentence needs comment. How do you defend yourself Madison? Stop posting bunk!

    madison.PNG

    Example: Vortices.

    This is a photo of vortices both forming in mist behind an A340 and condensation forming over the wings. Stop posting bunk.

    Example: C310.

    This is a photo of the missile countermeasures (flares) fitted to a military C130. Stop posting bunk.


    example: C17.

    Ditto the above except it is a C17. Stop posting Bunk.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  34. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    It's not helping that there's a bunch of other non-polite anti-CT pages that she assumes are affiliated with Metabunk, but have nothing at all to do with me. I even banned one from the Metabunk page due to the offensive name ("Petition to move [chemtrailers] to the comedy channel")
     
  35. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    And Madison is not blocked anywhere that I know of. Certainly not here. This is the entire ban list for the Facebook page:

    [​IMG]

    Perhaps Madison could share her ban list for comparison?
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
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  36. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    The bad thing is there are several not-polite anti-CTers . . . it gets confusing to people who are called names, etc . . . on both sides . . . don't know how to correct this situation except to always be polite no matter what the provocations . . .
     
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  37. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    I was polite and she banned me from her page, when all I had posted was the link to the original photo.

    [...]
     
  38. ssfor27

    ssfor27 Active Member

    What are the odds this one of IRIS will make it onto Facebook or other sites as a chemtrail plane? Especially with those tanks visible in the background and a couple of what appears to be external air hoses connected to the aircraft, which I am sure could easily be explained as some type of chemical fill hoses by chemtrail advocates.

    http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_2539.html
     
  39. Belfrey

    Belfrey Senior Member

  40. Belfrey

    Belfrey Senior Member

    Another one from Madisonstar Moon, pictures of what looks like grad students in a research airplane:
    madisonstar2.
    Which is pretty much what it turns out to be. They are from a CalTech group which is doing research "broadly aimed at improving our understanding of the physics and chemistry of atmospheric aerosols, at scales ranging from the urban to the global atmosphere." See here:
    aerosolcloudresearch.
    If there actually were materials being intentionally released into the atmosphere by "chemtrails" planes, this is a research group that would be able to detect them.
     
    • Like Like x 1