The Origins of AAWSAP

[boringrealit]

As far as I know, we're quite sure that it never made it past the proposal stage. Maybe he means that some of the people on AAWSAP were party to the proposal.

Do we really know that? Given that SAPs are supposed to be secret, they wouldn't tell us or reveal the documents.

On the other hand, Elizondo is telling us that KB was some sort of program, which I assume would be illegal if it was/is a SAP under that name. And Lacatski claimed it continued.

There is of course some possible explanations, such as KB continuing "in spirit" and so on, maybe baked into some semi-private effort.

*

AATIP on the other hand is a worse mess. I think Lacatski is the one lying there. Elizondo has witnessed under oath, while Lacatski refuses. And it makes no sense for Elizondo/Stratton to use a cover name for AAWSAP for a real program or even a hobby project. Plus why would Elizondo lie about it running in parallel with AAWSAP?

It could be that both are lying, that AATIP was the real program and AAWSAP is the cover name, given how we are allowed to see so much about AAWSAP. Maybe Elizondo was supposed to come out as the director of AAWSAP but messed up and gave the real name of the program. Probably not, but it is possible. I lean more toward them being two different program in parallel or one within the other.

The KB docs also make it seem like AATIP was the precursor to KB, but I might misremember. I think the only place mentioning AAWSAP there was in AARO's intro. Maybe Lue actually messed up after all. Then again, why even release the KB docs if they wanted to keep things secret?

 

[RTM]

It sounds very like setting up a "committee to review the committee" type bureaucracy

 

[NorCal Dave]

On the other hand, Elizondo is telling us that KB was some sort of program, which I assume would be illegal if it was/is a SAP under that name. And Lacatski claimed it continued.

Is he? What does he actually say (bold by me):

As for KB, I was aware of the KB effort through others that were part of AAWSAP and AATIP before. Because this was not my program and was under DHS, I offered support where needed but I wasn't really involved with it.

An effort. We know there was an effort to stand up KB at DHS. This effort was led by Lacatski, Kelleher and Puthoff, who as usual tried to sell one thing, their supposed super sensor suites, while actually wanting to continue stuff at SWR and get a hold of UFO parts. From the book:

Bell had set up the meeting to brief Secretary O'Toole on the top level BAASS program mission goals. Lacatski, Kelleher, Puthoff, and Black were there to answer any technical questions before exploring any areas of commonality that might lead to a BAASS-like program under the auspices of the Science and Technology umbrella at DHS. Specifically, the briefing would focus on the commonality of sensor technology applied to both a BAASS-like program and a collaborative Science & Technology program under the roof of the DHS.

Then Kelleher quickly briefed her on the sensor driven strategies utilized on Skinwalker Ranch. Black and Kelleher then focused the rest of the discussion with Dr. O'Toole on some of the medical investigations that BAASS had initiated. O'Toole listened with great interest as Black and Kelleher recounted the 2005 case of the Ron Becker encounter with blue orbs that had culminated in a host of biological and medical issues.

pg: 149-150

From the actual KB proposal:

) Data Collection and Analysis, 2) Advanced Technology, 3) Consciousness, and 4) Integration.#1

(UAIVSACO) National Institute for Discovery Center:.

(S//KB//NTF)) The Data Collection Division will collect and deliver reports from the United States regarding sightings, evidence collection and subsequent laboratory analysis on advanced technology behavior within the territorial limits of the United States and immediately-adjacent Pacific and Atlantic Ocean areas.

(S/AB//NF) The Experimental Division initially will consist of a well-studied experimental locationt hat has been researched for approximately 15 years. The intent is to locate, calibrate and then subject other sites to the same intensive study as the primary location. Within each location, focus remote sensing capabilities on all known hot spots (locations with repeated/frequent reports of activity).

Data Collection is looking for UFOs, while the Experimental Division was obviously Skinwalker Ranch, with possible other spooky sites added. More from the proposal:

#2 (S//KB//NF)) Advanced Technology Center:(S/AKB/NE) Access recovered advanced technology and any earlier assessments to determine threat capability and any potential countermeasures possible against the advanced technology.(SHKB//NE) Collect oral histories from already identified sources - retired military, intelligence, and contractor personnel - to assist in locating additional recovered advanced technology.

#3 (S/XB/ANF)) Consciousness Center:(S/KB//NEF)) Collect critical data utilizing remote sensing in order to determine the activity and purpose of the advanced technology, especially any threat posed.(S//KB//NF)) In an expanded role, remote sensing and related techniques may present an invaluable aid in countering illicit activities conducted against the U.S. Demonstrations of capability will be made.

https://www.aaro.mil/Portals/136/PDFs/UAP_RECORDS_RESEARCH/AARO_DHS_Kona_Blue.pdf

Advanced Technology Center is trying to get crashed UFOs, while Consciousness Center is the taxpayers once again paying Puthoff to play around with Psy. KB was just going to be a rehash of AAWSAP. The book and the documents agree. They also agree it never got passed being a proposal:

Lacatski worked with both senators to achieve the goal of a new DHS AAWSAP-like effort, but DHS leadership ultimately did not accept the new funding.

pg: 28

When DIA canceled AAWSAP/AATIP, several individuals involved with that program advocated for DHS to take the effort over and fund a new version of AAWSAP/AATIP under the code name "KONA BLUE." According to the proposal, KONA BLUE would continue the work previously undertaken by DIA's AAWSAP/AATIP to investigate, identify, and analyze sensitive materials and technologies, to include advanced aerospace vehicles.

Six months later, however, the Deputy Secretary of DHS disapproved KONA BLUE as a Special Access Program (SAP), and further directed its immediate termination citing concerns about the adequacy of justification for the program, and sufficiency of information central to the proposal development, including personnel and budget requirements.

https://www.aaro.mil/Portals/136/PD...History_and_Origin_of_KONA_BLUE_FINAL_508.pdf

There is no evidence KB ever existed beyond a proposal according to the people that proposed it.

Then again, why even release the KB docs if they wanted to keep things secret?

Because there's nothing to keep secret.

As for Elizondo's description of AATIP and AAWSAP:

1. AAWSAP was the original contract vehicle that was approved and executed in 2008, although discussions occurred before that from my understanding. This included BAAS as the primary contractor. Focus included UAP and anomalies at Skin Walker Ranch

Yes, that's what most of us are saying. It's what the book says and it's corroborated by the FOIA documents. AAWSAP got $22m over 2 years with most of it going to BAASS.

2. AATIP was created to focus solely on military encounters with UAP. The 2009 memo demonstrates this. Keep in mind that justifying the spending of military resources (people, travel, time, etc) requires a military focus. This means showing a clear connection to military equities. The perfect example is the Nimitz incident and investigation that Jay conducted. I was part of AATIP already but focusing on the security element.

Now it gets fuzzy. The book notes that Elizondo was working with Jay Stratton:

Further down the dinner table sat Luis Elizondo, who worked collaboratively with Axelrod (Stratton) and was at the office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence (USDI).

PG: 49

But the memo Elizondo produced for his X post, is the one Knapp, Kelleher and Lacastski claim used the made up name of AATIP:

Given what he had just heard from Bigelow, Reid was concerned that BAASS would get too high a profile at DoD in the near future and that the AAWSAP contract would be exposed and essentially unprotected from potential opponents at DoD.

A new unclassified nickname, the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP), was created for use within the unclassified letter because it was decided for security reasons not to use the AAWSAP acronym. Reid's letter was carefully crafted to initiate the process of urgently conferring Special Access Program (SAP) status to some of the more sensitive projects at BAASS.

pg:90-91

It sounds like what many of us suspect it was, an unofficial and un-funded search for military UFO stuff (bold by me):

3. From 2009 to 2012 both AATIP and AAWSAP were run simultaneously. Meaning, AAWSAP was focusing on the ranch and some archival UAP cases (for which I was not part of so I can't really speak to any degree of authority involving AAWSAP. As for me, at AATIP we were focused on military encounters with UAP which there were many.

4. In 2012, funding for AAWSAP ended and from my understanding those efforts ended (I could be wrong here because I wasnt really involved with that effort. With the finding done for AAWSAP, AATIP continued. In 2013 and 2014, we had another 10 million that was provided to us (AATIP) through appropriations but the language was vague and so the money didn't come to us and instead taken by another element in USD(I), much to our disappointment. Fortunately I managed activities that allowed me to use our own resources to keep the program alive. By this point, we had plenty of military incidents to review and triage

He was using money (resources) from his assigned duties to keep his and Stratton's side gig rolling. The possible funding for 2014-2015 may refer to attempts to fund AAWSAP via DoD:

For FY14 with the assistance of Congressman Steny Hoyer, and again in FY15, Senator Reid and Lacatski attempted to fund AAWSAP through the DoD. Both attempts failed. Finally, on May 13, 2016, Lacatski retired from government service. So, after nine years of effort, the work of AAWSAP ended.

Then, wanting to get a hold of crashed UFO parts and get his little unknown project some "top cover", he tries to do an end run around his boss's, boss's boss, the Secretary of the Air Force and goes straight to the Secretary of Defense, with help from Mellon:

6. When Gen Mattis became SecDef I saw it as an opportunity to see if we could get a memo from the SecDef, thereby trumping (forgive the pun) the SecAf. To do this, we would need to brief his staff. Please keep in mind that all the while AATIP had been placed into DoD control systems but very few people in the new chain of command were even aware of it. So this was the perfect opportunity to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. I.e. get top cover at the highest level while also getting a memo signed by SecDef to allow certain contractors to hand over the material they said they already had. Chris Mellon knew folks in the SecDef front office and introduced us. I already had served with Mattis overseas but I didn't know anyone in his front office so Chris' help was invaluable.

This all sounds like what we have suspected. Elizondo and Stratton were farting around looking for UFOs in military circles while AAWSAP was up and running and then carried on after AAWSAP closed down and KONA BLUE was a bust. When they couldn't get the new Secretary of Defense to take up their cause, Elizondo decided to go public:

7. Jay and I along with our colleagues kept running into roadblocks with initiatives such as Interloper. As such, in 2017 we decided one of us would have to break cover in order to get the Secretary's attention to this important matter. We decided it would be me that would go public while Jay remained in the shadows to continue AATIP from inside.

Elizondo makes no mention of funding, aside from the lack of it, for AATIP nor how it was constituted or what chain of command it was part of. Were he and Stratton and others using the AATIP prior to the Reid memo? Maybe. Did Reid and Lacatski get the nick-name AATIP form Elizondo or Stratton? Again, maybe. But in the end AAWSAP was the officially funded program that paid out $22m to BAASS. AATIP at best was was a small program that Elizondo and Stratton worked on part time and at worst was just their side hustle.

 

[John J.]

So KB became a real program? Maybe it was a program but never elevated to SAP status.

No, it was an important feature of the Kona Blue proposal that it should be a Special Access Program.

The Kona Blue proposal is viewable as a PDF at post #1, thread "Kona Blue - AARO Report on the Proposed AAWSAP Successor".
The AARO report on Kona Blue is also in that post as a PDF. It is very clear.

Kona Blue was a prospective special access program- a proposal. It was turned down. It was never a USG/ agency program, special access or otherwise.
"Prospective special access program" does not mean, in this case, an existing program waiting to get classified as a Special Access Program.

The Kona Blue proposer's justification for it being a SAP is under Question 2, Justification for Need, page 19 of PDF

f) Without the appropriate SAP protection, the cost associated with a compromise of specific features of this program, namely those in a) and b), would result in grave consequences, perhaps irreversible, to the security of the United States.

Do we really know that? Given that SAPs are supposed to be secret, they wouldn't tell us or reveal the documents.

Kona Blue wasn't an SAP. It didn't exist except as a proposal, and it was turned down.
It had no Government/ agency funds, workspace, staff or other resources.

To many people reading the proposal, it might not be surprising that it was turned down. We know what the DoD had concluded about AAWSAP/ AATIP and the work done by Bigelow's people by that time. Kona Blue was an attempt by a few associated with AAWSAP to find a new home, following the same interests, in DHS.

 

[MapperGuy]

No, it was an important feature of the Kona Blue proposal that it should be a Special Access Program.

The Kona Blue proposal is viewable as a PDF at post #1, thread "Kona Blue - AARO Report on the Proposed AAWSAP Successor".
The AARO report on Kona Blue is also in that post as a PDF. It is very clear.

It was important for it to be a highly restricted program so that careful control could be kept over who was involved and what output would be generated.
Who would be involved? Only the insiders from the AAWSAP/Skinwalker Ranch days, who were true believers and would never question what was being done, or not done. Too many people, especially UFO skeptics, would quickly realize it was nonsense and move on to other things, and maybe spill the beans. The size also needed to be kept small to avoid drawing in those outsiders not already on board.

Anyone wishing to understand Kona Blue needs to read those documents mentioned in the second paragraph of the quote. I just finished reading them again, and the Kona Blue briefing slides are actually a lesson in how not to start up a program. The proposed scope in parts is large, very large, and COULD have encompassed the R&D elements of every 3-letter agency as well as all of the military. At other points it is very narrow, as the budget request is tiny, presumably because all they wanted to do is to "keep the band together" so they could keep playing UFO hunter.

They played way to cute with some of the terminology, to obscure what they were talking about.
On the 5th slide (internally numbered 4 of 15) they mention "temporal translation" which I would translate as TIME TRAVEL. Then "human effects and interface" which I would translate MIND CONTROL, which got the CIA all sorts of bad press once upon a time.

On slide 9 (internally numbered 8 of 15) they mention a "well studied experimental location" that had been studied for 15 years, Skinwalker Ranch presumably, so why not mention the name? They also mention "known hot spots (locations with repeated/frequent reports of activity) which would cause the decision maker to ask "What sorts of activity?"
Terms that appear to be used to obscure what the briefer is talking about would always generate questions about why a more clear term was not being used.

On slide 31 (internally numbered 15 of 17) when describing the Medical Centers deliverable they mention "collateral injuries/physiological effects to family members." Just what the lawyers want to see.

 

[boringrealit]

Is he? What does he actually say (bold by me):

As for KB, I was aware of the KB effort through others that were part of AAWSAP and AATIP before. Because this was not my program and was under DHS, I offered support where needed but I wasn't really involved with it.

An effort. We know there was an effort to stand up KB at DHS. This effort was led by Lacatski, Kelleher and Puthoff, who as usual tried to sell one thing, their supposed super sensor suites, while actually wanting to continue stuff at SWR and get a hold of UFO parts. From the book:

Bell had set up the meeting to brief Secretary O'Toole on the top level BAASS program mission goals. Lacatski, Kelleher, Puthoff, and Black were there to answer any technical questions before exploring any areas of commonality that might lead to a BAASS-like program under the auspices of the Science and Technology umbrella at DHS. Specifically, the briefing would focus on the commonality of sensor technology applied to both a BAASS-like program and a collaborative Science & Technology program under the roof of the DHS.

Then Kelleher quickly briefed her on the sensor driven strategies utilized on Skinwalker Ranch. Black and Kelleher then focused the rest of the discussion with Dr. O'Toole on some of the medical investigations that BAASS had initiated. O'Toole listened with great interest as Black and Kelleher recounted the 2005 case of the Ron Becker encounter with blue orbs that had culminated in a host of biological and medical issues.

pg: 149-150

From the actual KB proposal:

) Data Collection and Analysis, 2) Advanced Technology, 3) Consciousness, and 4) Integration.#1

(UAIVSACO) National Institute for Discovery Center:.

(S//KB//NTF)) The Data Collection Division will collect and deliver reports from the United States regarding sightings, evidence collection and subsequent laboratory analysis on advanced technology behavior within the territorial limits of the United States and immediately-adjacent Pacific and Atlantic Ocean areas.

(S/AB//NF) The Experimental Division initially will consist of a well-studied experimental locationt hat has been researched for approximately 15 years. The intent is to locate, calibrate and then subject other sites to the same intensive study as the primary location. Within each location, focus remote sensing capabilities on all known hot spots (locations with repeated/frequent reports of activity).

Data Collection is looking for UFOs, while the Experimental Division was obviously Skinwalker Ranch, with possible other spooky sites added. More from the proposal:

#2 (S//KB//NF)) Advanced Technology Center:(S/AKB/NE) Access recovered advanced technology and any earlier assessments to determine threat capability and any potential countermeasures possible against the advanced technology.(SHKB//NE) Collect oral histories from already identified sources - retired military, intelligence, and contractor personnel - to assist in locating additional recovered advanced technology.

#3 (S/XB/ANF)) Consciousness Center:(S/KB//NEF)) Collect critical data utilizing remote sensing in order to determine the activity and purpose of the advanced technology, especially any threat posed.(S//KB//NF)) In an expanded role, remote sensing and related techniques may present an invaluable aid in countering illicit activities conducted against the U.S. Demonstrations of capability will be made.

https://www.aaro.mil/Portals/136/PDFs/UAP_RECORDS_RESEARCH/AARO_DHS_Kona_Blue.pdf

Advanced Technology Center is trying to get crashed UFOs, while Consciousness Center is the taxpayers once again paying Puthoff to play around with Psy. KB was just going to be a rehash of AAWSAP. The book and the documents agree. They also agree it never got passed being a proposal:

Lacatski worked with both senators to achieve the goal of a new DHS AAWSAP-like effort, but DHS leadership ultimately did not accept the new funding.

pg: 28

When DIA canceled AAWSAP/AATIP, several individuals involved with that program advocated for DHS to take the effort over and fund a new version of AAWSAP/AATIP under the code name "KONA BLUE." According to the proposal, KONA BLUE would continue the work previously undertaken by DIA's AAWSAP/AATIP to investigate, identify, and analyze sensitive materials and technologies, to include advanced aerospace vehicles.

Six months later, however, the Deputy Secretary of DHS disapproved KONA BLUE as a Special Access Program (SAP), and further directed its immediate termination citing concerns about the adequacy of justification for the program, and sufficiency of information central to the proposal development, including personnel and budget requirements.

https://www.aaro.mil/Portals/136/PD...History_and_Origin_of_KONA_BLUE_FINAL_508.pdf

There is no evidence KB ever existed beyond a proposal according to the people that proposed it.



Because there's nothing to keep secret.

As for Elizondo's description of AATIP and AAWSAP:

1. AAWSAP was the original contract vehicle that was approved and executed in 2008, although discussions occurred before that from my understanding. This included BAAS as the primary contractor. Focus included UAP and anomalies at Skin Walker Ranch

Yes, that's what most of us are saying. It's what the book says and it's corroborated by the FOIA documents. AAWSAP got $22m over 2 years with most of it going to BAASS.

2. AATIP was created to focus solely on military encounters with UAP. The 2009 memo demonstrates this. Keep in mind that justifying the spending of military resources (people, travel, time, etc) requires a military focus. This means showing a clear connection to military equities. The perfect example is the Nimitz incident and investigation that Jay conducted. I was part of AATIP already but focusing on the security element.

Now it gets fuzzy. The book notes that Elizondo was working with Jay Stratton:

Further down the dinner table sat Luis Elizondo, who worked collaboratively with Axelrod (Stratton) and was at the office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence (USDI).

PG: 49

But the memo Elizondo produced for his X post, is the one Knapp, Kelleher and Lacastski claim used the made up name of AATIP:

Given what he had just heard from Bigelow, Reid was concerned that BAASS would get too high a profile at DoD in the near future and that the AAWSAP contract would be exposed and essentially unprotected from potential opponents at DoD.

A new unclassified nickname, the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP), was created for use within the unclassified letter because it was decided for security reasons not to use the AAWSAP acronym. Reid's letter was carefully crafted to initiate the process of urgently conferring Special Access Program (SAP) status to some of the more sensitive projects at BAASS.

pg:90-91

It sounds like what many of us suspect it was, an unofficial and un-funded search for military UFO stuff (bold by me):

3. From 2009 to 2012 both AATIP and AAWSAP were run simultaneously. Meaning, AAWSAP was focusing on the ranch and some archival UAP cases (for which I was not part of so I can't really speak to any degree of authority involving AAWSAP. As for me, at AATIP we were focused on military encounters with UAP which there were many.

4. In 2012, funding for AAWSAP ended and from my understanding those efforts ended (I could be wrong here because I wasnt really involved with that effort. With the finding done for AAWSAP, AATIP continued. In 2013 and 2014, we had another 10 million that was provided to us (AATIP) through appropriations but the language was vague and so the money didn't come to us and instead taken by another element in USD(I), much to our disappointment. Fortunately I managed activities that allowed me to use our own resources to keep the program alive. By this point, we had plenty of military incidents to review and triage

He was using money (resources) from his assigned duties to keep his and Stratton's side gig rolling. The possible funding for 2014-2015 may refer to attempts to fund AAWSAP via DoD:

For FY14 with the assistance of Congressman Steny Hoyer, and again in FY15, Senator Reid and Lacatski attempted to fund AAWSAP through the DoD. Both attempts failed. Finally, on May 13, 2016, Lacatski retired from government service. So, after nine years of effort, the work of AAWSAP ended.

Then, wanting to get a hold of crashed UFO parts and get his little unknown project some "top cover", he tries to do an end run around his boss's, boss's boss, the Secretary of the Air Force and goes straight to the Secretary of Defense, with help from Mellon:

6. When Gen Mattis became SecDef I saw it as an opportunity to see if we could get a memo from the SecDef, thereby trumping (forgive the pun) the SecAf. To do this, we would need to brief his staff. Please keep in mind that all the while AATIP had been placed into DoD control systems but very few people in the new chain of command were even aware of it. So this was the perfect opportunity to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. I.e. get top cover at the highest level while also getting a memo signed by SecDef to allow certain contractors to hand over the material they said they already had. Chris Mellon knew folks in the SecDef front office and introduced us. I already had served with Mattis overseas but I didn't know anyone in his front office so Chris' help was invaluable.

This all sounds like what we have suspected. Elizondo and Stratton were farting around looking for UFOs in military circles while AAWSAP was up and running and then carried on after AAWSAP closed down and KONA BLUE was a bust. When they couldn't get the new Secretary of Defense to take up their cause, Elizondo decided to go public:

7. Jay and I along with our colleagues kept running into roadblocks with initiatives such as Interloper. As such, in 2017 we decided one of us would have to break cover in order to get the Secretary's attention to this important matter. We decided it would be me that would go public while Jay remained in the shadows to continue AATIP from inside.

Elizondo makes no mention of funding, aside from the lack of it, for AATIP nor how it was constituted or what chain of command it was part of. Were he and Stratton and others using the AATIP prior to the Reid memo? Maybe. Did Reid and Lacatski get the nick-name AATIP form Elizondo or Stratton? Again, maybe. But in the end AAWSAP was the officially funded program that paid out $22m to BAASS. AATIP at best was was a small program that Elizondo and Stratton worked on part time and at worst was just their side hustle.

I agree that it isn't absolutely clear what he meant, he might have meant "the failed effort" and not something that lead to real program. He does however also write

And then there were some that were part of all three efforts, AAWSAP, AATIP, and KB.

So who knows. It might go either way.

But the memo Elizondo produced for his X post, is the one Knapp, Kelleher and Lacastski claim used the made up name of AATIP:

This is probably the key question about which side is lying and why. Maybe Elizondo lied by in hindsight renaming his effort "AATIP" to take credit for AAWSAP. It would be a useful name since it could be backed up by documentation. He then went on to keep lying under oath (something Lacatski implied without naming names in one of the interviews with Corbell).

Or maybe AATIP somehow had a secrecy status and they are trying to deny or diminish its existence for that reason.

*

I also wonder why the KB docs seems to ignore AAWSAP and only talk about AATIP (with varying meaning and spelling) if AAWSAP and AATIP (no matter if they were programs or hobbies) run in parallel. There is something fishy here.

 

[NorCal Dave]

I also wonder why the KB docs seems to ignore AAWSAP and only talk about AATIP (with varying meaning and spelling) if AAWSAP and AATIP (no matter if they were programs or hobbies) run in parallel. There is something fishy here.

Possibly because AATIP was the cover name used in the unclassified letter in an effort to hide AAWSAP. The something "fishy" is Reid funding a program that sent $22m to his fellow Nevadan, fellow church member and campaign donor, Bigelow, so he could spend taxpayer money farting around on his own ranch and maybe preparing his own personal SCIF-like facility for anticipated UFO parts. It was a boondoggle. Reid was using tax payer money to fund Bigelow's fantasies and everyone involved knew it.

It was also a gravy-train for some of these guys. We know Davis managed to bilk the Air Force for $25k with a useless paper about teleportation back in 2004, just as NIDS was winding down (see post #18-20 of this thread) . With AAWSAP, Puthoff's EarthTech got to provide all 36 DIRD papers, while he and Davis even authored a few of them. Using the 2004 number, that's nearly a million dollars that Puthoff's company got a taste of in addition to what he and Davis collected for their own nonsensical papers. And Puthoff was back to doing "remote viewing"experiments for BAASS, even though Lacatski had rejected that part of the proposal. He just did it anyway.

It was in everyone's interest to keep the whole thing on the down low. Something they did eventually fail to do when they ramped up the pitch for KB. Where Lacatski had used a vague sounding RFP to hide what AAWSAP was really about, the guys pitching KB just came right out and requested that DHS fund an SAP that involved bullshit like Puthoff's pet project "remote viewing", among other nonsense. Obviously it was rejected.

This is probably the key question about which side is lying and why. Maybe Elizondo lied by in hindsight renaming his effort "AATIP" to take credit for AAWSAP. It would be a useful name since it could be backed up by documentation. He then went on to keep lying under oath (something Lacatski implied without naming names in one of the interviews with Corbell).

Again, I think this is just the standard way things are done, particularly in the post tech-boom world. The Larry Ellison school of "fake it till you make it" is now normal. It works for software companies where they can over promise and under deliver, but make it up on the next update, so everyone adopts it. People like Ellison protege, Elizabeth Holmes found it didn't quite work when one is engaging in actual physical medical tests with Therenos, but in 2017, when it's about who was running a supposed UFO program from 5-6 years ago, who's going to really care. Especially if some of the players are looking for investors in a new UFO related company.

I think Elizondo and Stratton were looking into military reports of UFOs while Stratton was involved with Lacatski and AAWSAP. Whether Lacatski spiffed them some funds from AAWSAP or just covered their expenses or gave them nothing, is unclear. It's equally unclear exactly when Elizondo and Stratton begin using the name AATIP for what they were doing. It is clear that the name AATIP was used to hide AAWSAP in a letter from Reid and the 2 names became somewhat synonymous and confused.

Elizondo and Stratton continued on with UFO hunting after AAWSAP shuts down, likely calling their little gig, AATIP. Elizondo diverted funds from his official programs to supplement AATIP, because it was un-funded.

Elizondo leaves in 2017 when the Secretary of Defense ignores his little UFO program. I also think, he's leaving to go public about a government UFO program AND to join his remote viewing coach, Puthoff at TTSA, a UFO company. Very convenient that he is going to provide the government credibility for a new private UFO company he's joining.

Mellon hooks Elizondo up with UFO enthusiast and journalist, Leslie Kean for the NYT article that comes out just as TTSA is being founded, which he and Mellon are involved with.

Was Elizondo the head of AATIP? If it's the AATIP that is he and Stratton farting around, then yes.

Was AATIP funded with $22m? Well, if it's the AATIP of Reid's letter that's hiding the name AAWSAP, then sorta yes.

Was Elizondo in charge of the $22m that got sent to BAASS? Kean thought so, no sense telling her about AAWSAP then.

Did Elizondo actually run a $22m government UFO program? Not really, but it made for a good story and he was involved somehow, so no harm, no foul.

It's all deliberately vague. Remember, they weren't just selling UFOs and the government's involvement, they were looking for investors in TTSA, a UFO company.