TFTRH 9: Joe - Former Chemtrail Conspiracist, Current New World Order Conspiracist

Mick West

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Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW6c2eUGpsM


@Joe is someone I’ve known online for nearly ten years, back when he was a believer in the chemtrails conspiracy theory. Over a few years, I managed to talk him out of that one. He’s dabbled in a few other conspiracy theories since then, like JFK, 9/11, and Birtherism (Obama being supposedly born in Kenya), but didn’t really think they had much to them.

Joe is politically right wing, a Tea Party Republican who expressed some support for the Oregon militia standoff of 2016, and is very critical of what he sees as left-wing media bias regarding social issues like race and immigration. The conspiracy he currently thinks is real is that leftists and globalists like George Soros, combined with a “Deep State”, are attempting to use those social issues to manipulate society towards open borders and a one world government. This is not a fringe view, and variations of this belief are actually shared by a significant number of people.

Joe joking referred to himself as a “deplorable”, a term used by Hillary Clinton to refer to Trump supporters, and then adopted by those supporters as a badge of their perceived oppression by the liberal establishment. To a liberal like myself, Joe’s positions do seem rather disappointing and I disagree with most of his political and social beliefs. But, just like with the more extreme or eccentric conspiracy theorists, I think it’s important to keep the channels of communication open.

Podcast page: https://www.tftrh.com/2019/06/17/ep...iracist-current-new-world-order-conspiracist/
Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tales-from-the-rabbit-hole/id1462120258?mt=2&ls=1
 

Mick West

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And for something completely different, for Episode 10 of Tales From the Rabbit Hole, I'm interviewing Jen Senko, the creator of the award-winning documentary "The Brainwashing of My Dad".

Jen is pretty much the exact opposite of my last guest, Joe. Her film documents how her father's personality changed after he started listening to far-right talk radio, and then Fox News. She investigates the history behind what Hillary Clinton dubbed a "vast right-wing conspiracy".

My interview with her will be released this weekend. If you are interested, I can recommend you watch the documentary in advance.

It's certainly going to seem to be a "leftist" take on things when viewed from a conservative perspective. But, regardless of your politics and even if you personally think its premise is a mistake, it's interesting both for the historical exposition and for the personal stories.

http://www.thebrainwashingofmydad.com/
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Jen is pretty much the exact opposite of my last guest,
I wouldn't say the exact opposite. Seems exactly the same but from the other side of the spectrum.

Although I only got 1/3rd in. the history was kinda interesting (and the truth is actually in there for people who can hear it :) ) but is the last hour just more of the same? meaning, just more rhetoric that we [oldish people] already know?
 

Mick West

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Although I only got 1/3rd in. the history was kinda interesting (and the truth is actually in there for people who can hear it :) ) but is the last hour just more of the same? meaning, just more rhetoric that we [oldish people] already know?
The next third is more recent history combined with more individual stories. Then the last third focus on tactics in current use, and it finishes by going back to Frank (her dad) and seeing how he changed after his wife altered his media diet.
 

Mick West

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I watched it. the last 20 mins. can you guess what i'm thinking :)
I can guess a variety of things you might be thinking. I'm really curious though what conservatives make of it, as I kind of feel like they would just dismiss it as naive leftist whining/propaganda — perhaps with some interesting points, but too one-sided?
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
but too one-sided?

Personally im ok that it is too one sided. obviously her goal was to sing to the choir and that's ok. Hannity et al do the same thing. I don't believe in banning books and silencing voices, so she can certainly make a very one sided documentary.

I skipped the middle of course, and I never have heard rush Limbaugh in my life (and only rarely listen to Hannity). I missed the part where I guess her dad was spitting on colored people?

Mostly im cracking up at the title. when she said "the brainwashing of my dad" I didn't realize the end would reveal the brainwashing was from HER and her step mom. (so im glad I watched the end).

My grandfather was a grumpy old thing who completely softened and changed after he hit 80. Not on politics that I know of, but most of our family is conservative. He was in an assistant living facility there at the end though and the staff adored him, he was so nice. o_O Anyway, so I find the treatment of her father rather distasteful, simply because he was SO old. But that's my upbringing. I'm not even allowed to yell at old people (in my head) on the highway.
 

Joe

Senior Member
I can guess a variety of things you might be thinking. I'm really curious though what conservatives make of it, as I kind of feel like they would just dismiss it as naive leftist whining/propaganda — perhaps with some interesting points, but too one-sided?
It was a Media Matters propaganda Flick by a far left progressive . Seems the old Guy had something traumatic happen and they hid all his stuff from him , Seemed they didnt like his political ideology and Brainwashed him at the end . Bet he would have voted for Trump :) My Opinion of course
 

Joe

Senior Member
That's not really a fair thing to say. Even Dems didn't like Hillary.
Yea I dont think he made it that far . He died 2016 . Maybe next time dont have David Brock head of Media Matters .(Soros Funded ) , What bothers me is however Fox news was Created didn't the right need a voice ? Media matters is always attacking Fox and she has been calling for boycotts of their sponsors ? The left just wants to silence the right . Sad :( Except Mick and Joe Rogan :)
 

Joe

Senior Member
I don't know where you get that. He changed after his long commute got him hooked on talk radio.
His radio broke . remote broke and they changed everything on him . They conspired behind his back . Went in hospital for a Kidney stone an conspired more . Actually seemed like he had a stroke or something .
 

Mick West

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His radio broke . remote broke and they changed everything on him . They conspired behind his back . Went in hospital for a Kidney stone an conspired more . Actually seemed like he had a stroke or something .
Hmm, but what prompted the original change? He used to be easygoing, and then got all angry and difficult to talk to.
There were lots of people in the documentary with similar stories. It really reminded me of people who had got sucked into the more extreme conspiracy theories, like in the recent thread here:
https://www.metabunk.org/posts/231566/
"They set about telling everyone in their life about these theories and this has resulted in their relationship breaking down, their business collapsing, and generally alienating everyone around them."

Were these people simply people living in a liberal household who woke up to reality, so their liberal family members ganged up on them? I don't think so.
 

Mick West

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It was a Media Matters propaganda Flick by a far left progressive .
Maybe next time dont have David Brock head of Media Matters .(Soros Funded ) , What bothers me is however Fox news was Created didn't the right need a voice ? Media matters is always attacking Fox and she has been calling for boycotts of their sponsors ? The left just wants to silence the right .

She says it has nothing to do with Media Matters, that's just one of the people they interviewed. It was a self-funded and crowd-funded documentary.
 

Joe

Senior Member
Hmm, but what prompted the original change? He used to be easygoing, and then got all angry and difficult to talk to.
There were lots of people in the documentary with similar stories. It really reminded me of people who had got sucked into the more extreme conspiracy theories, like in the recent thread here:
https://www.metabunk.org/posts/231566/
"They set about telling everyone in their life about these theories and this has resulted in their relationship breaking down, their business collapsing, and generally alienating everyone around them."

Were these people simply people living in a liberal household who woke up to reality, so their liberal family members ganged up on them? I don't think so.
I know a guy like that . he listens to Savage nation and other right wing stuff , He is almost the same . isolated himself with his family who happen to be the same politically . They are called Grumpy Old Men . My wife is the same as me politically but of course she is quiet . There are political extremist on both sides as we all know . My father called himself a social Democrat I told him he was a commie . Political banter is like Ford and Chevy guys arguing which is a better automobile . Half of my 4 kids seem on the left . I have no problem with that.
 

Joe

Senior Member
She says it has nothing to do with Media Matters, that's just one of the people they interviewed. It was a self-funded and crowd-funded documentary.
2 people were from media matters and who was he biggest Donor ? was someone who gave her over 5000 according to her kick starter campaign Seems it only netted 7000 dollars + my 2.99 ?
 

Mick West

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I know a guy like that . he listens to Savage nation and other right wing stuff , He is almost the same . isolated himself with his family who happen to be the same politically . They are called Grumpy Old Men .

Do you think Savage nation attracts grumpy old men, or it helps create them?

A lot of the stories in the documentary were of people whose friends seemed to change after they started to binge on angry talk radio.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
He died 2016
I meant like if Trump ran in 2008 against the Obama. Even I would have voted for Obama over Trump (but in fairness im from the NY area, so was already super biased against Trump)

He changed after his long commute got him hooked on talk radio.
that's her take on it. Maybe he did, but the only time I turn to conservative media is if im really upset about something (like the Covington kids, or Oberlin) and the liberal media is too afraid to say the truth fully and I want to hear other people vent what I am feeling, because it makes me feel better.

There was a lot of social change during that time period (like now). I imagine Rush Limbaugh wasn't the only station on his radio. He tuned in the second time for some reason.
That would be like me commuting and I happened upon Rachael Maddow. and I continued to listen to her because I didn't feel like changing the channel?
 

Joe

Senior Member
Do you think Savage nation attracts grumpy old men, or it helps create them?

A lot of the stories in the documentary were of people whose friends seemed to change after they started to binge on angry talk radio.
Well this guy was always kinda Grumpy . Before we knew him my kids thought he was scary . Savage used to be a lot worse than he now . mellowed I guess ?
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
and then got all angry and difficult to talk to.
maybe because everyone was ganging up on him? I thought It was weird they were even arguing with their father over politics. It never would have occurred to me to argue with my father over politics. Not because I wasn't allowed, but because why would I care what my parents said about politics? It's weird.
 

Joe

Senior Member
I meant like if Trump ran in 2008 against the Obama. Even I would have voted for Obama over Trump (but in fairness im from the NY area, so was already super biased against Trump)


that's her take on it. Maybe he did, but the only time I turn to conservative media is if im really upset about something (like the Covington kids, or Oberlin) and the liberal media is too afraid to say the truth fully and I want to hear other people vent what I am feeling, because it makes me feel better.

There was a lot of social change during that time period (like now). I imagine Rush Limbaugh wasn't the only station on his radio. He tuned in the second time for some reason.
That would be like me commuting and I happened upon Rachael Maddow. and I continued to listen to her because I didn't feel like changing the channel?
Rush has toned himself down quite a bit . Maybe because Obama is Gone and his guy is in office ? Mostly Sarcasm . I listen to talk radio all day but hear very little . Air tools grinders Spray booth and compressors are noisy
 

Joe

Senior Member
maybe because everyone was ganging up on him? I thought It was weird they were even arguing with their father over politics. It never would have occurred to me to argue with my father over politics. Not because I wasn't allowed, but because why would I care what my parents said about politics? It's weird.
What weird is the mother was opposite as him ? Thought they would flow together . My wife started listening to the Savage Nation Before me . Maybe she brainwashed me ? :)
 

Mick West

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maybe because everyone was ganging up on him? I thought It was weird they were even arguing with their father over politics. It never would have occurred to me to argue with my father over politics. Not because I wasn't allowed, but because why would I care what my parents said about politics? It's weird.
I seemed more like he was constantly telling them stuff, making comments, and forwarding them loads of political emails.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
I seemed more like he was constantly telling them stuff, making comments, and forwarding them loads of political emails.
which is one problem with her overtly one sided style of documentary. I cant really take her word for anything because she is obviously SO biased.

Anyway... she started it by bringing up Hooters. she said so. I heard her.
 

Mick West

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There was a lot of social change during that time period (like now). I imagine Rush Limbaugh wasn't the only station on his radio. He tuned in the second time for some reason.
That would be like me commuting and I happened upon Rachael Maddow. and I continued to listen to her because I didn't feel like changing the channel?
Talk radio was overwhelmingly right wing though. He may not have had many options.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
wait. no I cant. I wouldn't listen to Rachal Maddow every day even if she was literally the only station I got.
 

Mick West

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Anyway... she started it by bringing up Hooters. she said so. I heard her.
They were driving past a Hooters, and he brought it up, at 03:14

 

deirdre

Senior Member.
They were driving past a Hooters, and he brought it up, at 03:14


yea I don't believe that bit at all. why would a dad use those words to his daughter? c'mon.

But it is interesting that since I didn't believe her side of that story, my brain later (now) still registered it as 'she brought it up'. my mistake. but I still think she brought it up...

like I said if she wasn't so biased out of the gate, I might give her the benefit of the doubt. but she was, so I don't.

(I don't give rabidly biased conservatives the benefit of the doubt either. just fyi. like I wouldn't believe Hannity any further than I could throw him.)
 

Joe

Senior Member
He listened to talk radio. She did not.
View attachment 37471


Were you different before?
I never trusted government . I voted for Bush first Election and only voted for Kerry only because I did mot like Bush . I am very critical of every politician. Did I change ? naturally . Being self employed I think has more to do with my politics than many other things , Take Obama Care If he would have saved me 2500 a year on my heath insurance , I might have change my opinion of him Unfortunately it cost 8500 more a year and a deductible of 7500 , But at least my wife who just turned 60 now has maternity care :)
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
@Joe this millionaire guy paid for it. he says (bold by me for emphasis)

https://patrioticmillionaires.org/2...s-new-documentary-the-brainwashing-of-my-dad/

:) silly boy, that Smith.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
and they like it.
Trumpian reverberations. I've had the Beach Boys in my head half the night :)

well now that I know that millionaire guy was footing the bill, it might not be her fault it sounded so boring-propagandaish. 200k is a lot to spend on a serious intellectual piece. As we all know documentaries don't sell well, best to go the Al Gore route. :rolleyes: :)

Anyway, so there you go re: your curiousity of how conservatives would take it. I'm hard pressed to envision a scenario where a conservative goes "hmmmm. There's food for thought". maybe a very young conservative. But it's all so dated (which is what i kind a liked.. a walk down memory lane), would they even know who Rush Limbaugh is? Do they watch TV? (Fox news)?

And the advice of cutting your loved one off from the outside world isnt gonna work really with anyone under 80-85.
I liked her glasses though.
 

Joe

Senior Member
Trumpian reverberations. I've had the Beach Boys in my head half the night :)

well now that I know that millionaire guy was footing the bill, it might not be her fault it sounded so boring-propagandaish. 200k is a lot to spend on a serious intellectual piece. As we all know documentaries don't sell well, best to go the Al Gore route. :rolleyes: :)

Anyway, so there you go re: your curiousity of how conservatives would take it. I'm hard pressed to envision a scenario where a conservative goes "hmmmm. There's food for thought". maybe a very young conservative. But it's all so dated (which is what i kind a liked.. a walk down memory lane), would they even know who Rush Limbaugh is? Do they watch TV? (Fox news)?

And the advice of cutting your loved one off from the outside world isnt gonna work really with anyone under 80-85.
I liked her glasses though.
Maybe I can do a film on CNN MSNBC CBS ABC NBC NPR and their Russian Conspiracy Hoax thats been going on for over 2 years ? NPR gets their money not only from tax payers but big tech Facebook Google . Then lets add the brainwashing kids in public Schools Universities which tend to be all left wing . So the case could be made the left is worse than the right by far . So why should the right balance things out ? .
 

Mick West

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And the advice of cutting your loved one off from the outside world isnt gonna work really with anyone under 80-85.
I agree, and I did raise that point with her. But I think the basic idea of exposing people to additional information sources is valid. People get deeply polarized if they just look at one source. But I think in most cases you have to do this more openly and cooperatively than using the parental controls on the TV. Quid pro quo - I watched Tucker Carlson's critique of California in exchange for Joe watching Brainwashing.
 

Agent K

Active Member
But it's all so dated (which is what i kind a liked.. a walk down memory lane), would they even know who Rush Limbaugh is? Do they watch TV? (Fox news)?

Here's the current version: "The Making of a YouTube Radical"
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/08/technology/youtube-radical.html
 

Joe

Senior Member
I agree, and I did raise that point with her. But I think the basic idea of exposing people to additional information sources is valid. People get deeply polarized if they just look at one source. But I think in most cases you have to do this more openly and cooperatively than using the parental controls on the TV. Quid pro quo - I watched Tucker Carlson's critique of California in exchange for Joe watching Brainwashing.
yea but tucker Didnt cost you 2.99 :) . What did you think of what was said about California ? propaganda ?
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
I agree, and I did raise that point with her. But I think the basic idea of exposing people to additional information sources is valid. People get deeply polarized if they just look at one source. But I think in most cases you have to do this more openly and cooperatively than using the parental controls on the TV. Quid pro quo - I watched Tucker Carlson's critique of California in exchange for Joe watching Brainwashing.

25 years and they never thought to plop a subscription to The New York Times in front of him? Anyway i think they are just as, if not more, to blame for his descent into abnormally mean old man than Rush Limbaugh. You brought up the conspiracy theorist analogy. Not all conspiracy theorists devolve into the extreme, even if they watch the same content. Certain people have other issues that exacerbate the problem in my opinion.
My sister in law is an extremely rude rabid leftist. But I never thought it's because MSNBC is brainwashing her. She just has very strong feelings about her views (and she's a lush, so I think that makes her ornery even when shes not drinking. or especially when shes not drinking)
 
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