Skinny bob videos?

MclachlanM

Active Member
More info here (ignore the title, the original claim was debunked):

The Russian documentary here actually seems to imply that this is footage from the US air force, here is what they are talking about when it is shown:
"Contact with alien race had begun a long time ago. The US establishment had their first contact in the previous century at North Carolina."
"Researchers believe that in October 1941 in North Carolina an alien egg-shaped craft had crashed there. [SKINNY BOB FOOTAGE STARTS PLAYING] The crew consisted of 4-high humanoids with milky-white skin. Those who survived were taken to a secret bunker where they died a few weeks later."

The North Carolina / Cape Girardeau 1941 story seems suspicious (I am surprised that there isn't a dedicated thread here) but the Skinny Bob footage certainly feels related.

I think the gist of the story is a UFO crashes, 3/4 (depending on where you read the story) aliens are found on the scene, one is kept alive for some time by the air force and the rest die. All evidence, footage etc. was taken away by Area 51 people and the only thing that remains is the testimony of a lady's grandfather, a pastor named William G. Huffman, retold by the lady with some photographic evidence with unknown origins.

Strikingly the aliens in the photos from this event and similar ones look a lot like the Ivan YouTube stuff (this might not be ground-breaking as they look like fairly classic aliens):download.jpg
1624659959804.png

Here's is what we know about them:
In fact, the "alien" in Koi Alien Photo 10 is a prop produced by Don Post (apparently dubbed by many as "The Godfather of Halloween" most famous for creating rubber masks for commercial sale and use in movies - including the Star Wars and Halloween film series), as discussed below.

The photograph was taken at the "Aliens: Worlds of Possibilities" exhibition developed by the Pacific Science Center, which opened in Seattle in 1998 and has been traveling the country ever since.

The Manager of Exhibt Development of the Pacific Science Center was kind enough to generously answer a few questions I posed to her about the photograph back in 2007, including:
(1) Stating that the "alien" was purchased for $160 in 1997 at a local party supply store.

(2) Indicating that, prior to my email in 2007, the Pacific Science Center was unaware that a photo of their alien was being used as "evidence" of extraterrestrial life.

(3) Stating that the relevant exhibit was designed with a chain link fence/corrugated metal fence surrounding the space so visitors could not get near the case. This caused her to suggest that the individual in the photo may have been someone would have had access to the set before it was completed and sealed off from the public.

Her comments also included the following:

"I imagine someone posted the image as a joke and it has just taken off. The thing looks so incredibly fake it’s hard to believe any serious discussions have taken place as to its authenticity. I can tell you I have personally always been disappointed this cheap and tacky doll has been the focus of newspaper photos and stories about the exhibition since we opened the show here in Seattle. We spent considerable time, money and effort to create 5 incredible, imaginative robotic aliens (1 no longer travels with the show), that are grounded in scientific theory, and they hardly ever get photographed." (Email to Isaac Koi dated 1 May 2007).
https://www.isaackoi.com/alien-photos/koi-alien-photo-10.html

From Don Post's Wiki:
Donald Post (March 14, 1902 – November 17, 1979), dubbed by many as The Godfather of Halloween, created and sold some of the first latex masks, which remain popular today.

Knowing that a very similar looking prop made by the 'Godfather of Halloween' has been making the rounds since at least the 90s makes these scenes from Skinny Bob less impressive.
1624660236202.png1624660305391.png


As for the blinking video I'm not sure how that was made but it would seem pretty easy with puppetry, here is a guy doing a pretty good blinking in 2015.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUl6Y6KbyuU


The alien does move quite strangely but so do puppets, if you play with speeding up and down this video you can start to get a sense of how they can look similar (who knew I'd be spending my Friday night looking at puppet videos).
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E8Xz5VnNIQ


The footage has clearly been slowed down to 0.5x to give this weird movement effect:


If I were making an alien puppet I'd probably not want to go to all the work of making an entire body. Probably why this alien is wearing a turtleneck!
 

Max Phalange

Active Member
I hadn't heard of this case before, or forgot about it. I punched ivan's youtube channel into the internet archive and found some comments on the original videos claiming Ivan was actually somebody previously called 351NOVA who had uploaded similar videos that ended up being from a movie or something. Can't find much mention of 351NOVA in Google or the sub reddit. Has anyone here looked deeper into this connection?

https://web.archive.org/web/20110507124352/https://www.youtube.com/user/ivan0135

Edit to add: there are a fair amount of mentions of 351Nova on google after all, but most are pretty old. To me the similarity of the usernames is too much of a coincidence.
Did you come across this thread on godlikeproductions?

A user called Mr351Nova signs up to post a single message admitting he was responsible for previous hoaxes, but is unrelated to ivan0135.

 
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NilbogBackwards

New Member
Did you come across this thread on godlikeproductions?

A user called Mr351Nova signs up to post a single message admitting he was responsible for previous hoaxes, but is unrelated to ivan0135.


I did read that. Do you believe him? To me that sounds like what I would say if my previous hoax attempt was exposed and I was liking that my latest one has a lot of people fooled.
 

Rotauge

New Member
This seems to be the unredacted version of the logo frame:

kgb.jpg

I can't find the original russian ufo crash/autopsy documentary in which I recognized this image but there are a few minutes on Youtube
 

NilbogBackwards

New Member
The Russian documentary here actually seems to imply that this is footage from the US air force, here is what they are talking about when it is shown:


The North Carolina / Cape Girardeau 1941 story seems suspicious (I am surprised that there isn't a dedicated thread here) but the Skinny Bob footage certainly feels related.

I think the gist of the story is a UFO crashes, 3/4 (depending on where you read the story) aliens are found on the scene, one is kept alive for some time by the air force and the rest die. All evidence, footage etc. was taken away by Area 51 people and the only thing that remains is the testimony of a lady's grandfather, a pastor named William G. Huffman, retold by the lady with some photographic evidence with unknown origins.

Strikingly the aliens in the photos from this event and similar ones look a lot like the Ivan YouTube stuff (this might not be ground-breaking as they look like fairly classic aliens):download.jpg
1624659959804.png

Here's is what we know about them:

https://www.isaackoi.com/alien-photos/koi-alien-photo-10.html

From Don Post's Wiki:


Knowing that a very similar looking prop made by the 'Godfather of Halloween' has been making the rounds since at least the 90s makes these scenes from Skinny Bob less impressive.
1624660236202.png1624660305391.png

To me the space craft looks really tiny in this crash scene. They show it just before this scene of him lying on the ground and all they do is pan down a bit...no zooming to reveal his body. Are the aliens lying down when flying it? It doesn't look very tall at all and barely longer than the alien.
 

gabelewis

New Member
I'm glad to see someone support the theory that some live action elements are at play in the main Bob video.

You're not the first person to suggest that. There is a VFX artist on Reddit who took a stab at what elements he thought might be necessary and surprisingly mostly convinced that the character work is some kind of puppetry or a mix of puppetry and digital effects.

The post claims to be by Ben Philips (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1592943/)

They also find the work impressive and assume it would take a budget to pull off:

I work in special effects, creature effects and visual effects for the film industry. IMDB me... Ben Philips. I and those I work with could fake this. The problem is I would need a small crew and would have to spend a lot of prep time and money to pull it off. The clips of Skinny Bob and ‘family vacation’ are one thing... and arguments over frame rate and whether it’s 16mm footage is irrelevant, it’s the creation of the supplemental footage that people tend to ignore and overlook, all of which are totally unique to Ivan 0135’s uploads. None of the other clips have been seen before or since. They comprise of....

  • A saucer being filmed from a moving vehicle hovering over what looks like a steam boat - digital composition using filmed footage and composited UFO with fantastic tracking.
  • Cockpit footage showing a saucer flying beside it - again an edited video with an inserted UFO.
  • An alien walking towards camera - this could be entirely digital but I think not because the camera shake isn’t added as an effect. This means it would be a makeup (mask) and performer or a digital edit with a CG alien.
  • A panning shot of a crash site in a desert - this is a physical effect shot... meaning the camera was filming an actual thing. This could have been a location build or a miniature model. I don’t think it’s a miniature though because the camera operator is walking while panning which would require the camera being motion controlled to simulate someone walking.
  • Autopsy footage - this would require a model alien and performers.
The last 3 clips I mentioned take the faking of this to a whole new level of expertise and professionalism. For a start the crash footage would need a location to film and a crew to either build the crashed saucer and bodies in a workshop or out on location, which appears to be a desert. This means money and people to pay, including transport to get the model saucer to location. The autopsy footage is interesting for a few reasons. One being that it’s not the same alien as Skinny Bob and is very short. it is very similar to the Ray Santilli autopsy footage that was admitted to be faked by Santilli himself. However, he claims to this day that he faked it because the original footage he bought degraded due to elemental exposure. This could possibly be a short clip of that original footage or if faked, the creators were hinting at it.

So.... if Skinny Bob was faked he’s either an animatronic puppet or CGI... or a blend of both. If it’s digital then it’s outstanding and the creator was a professional. If it’s digital then it wasn’t key frame animation but motion capture. If it was motion capture then it would need a studio set up. A studio set up means money and more people. If it was a puppet then it’s not only a stunning design but the puppeteers were top of the pile; the way he shifts his stance and looks down when he’s having his height measured is beautifully done and one of the reasons why if it is a computer generated character it was done using motion capture and not key frame animated.

I’m not saying it isn’t faked. I am proposing that if it was, then it was done by a multidisciplinary team of effects professionals. They spent a lot of time and money building physical models for extremely short clips that weren’t even the main subject matter of the video; Skinny Bob.

If faked none of those involved have broke silence since May 2011 to lay claim for their work.

I don't agree with Ben on everything and in the comments it's clear that he would enjoy knowing that they are real. I do think it illustrates the point that you can't just say "somebody made this in a weekend using Clip Art." There is enough meat to spark the interest of a few video professionals at least.

The major thing that people tend to miss: Lighting CG characters is hard, motion tracking is hard, key frame animation is HARD, making skin detail look convincing is HAAAARRRD. This is all true on brand new equipment.

Once again since we're on a skeptical forum: I believe the Bob videos to be the work of one or more professional VFX artists created for currently unknown reasons. I believe it took more than a few days, and a high level of skill to make - doubly so considering the year of release.

Another VFX artist (Richard Allan - Post Production Technical Instructor at Staffordshire University) commented in 2011 that it's obviously CGI because camera's of the era the footage is pretending to come from could not handle the level of detail on the character model:

The fifth shot is of the head of the alien, and this is where they give the game away. he footage is made to look old through the use of sepia, dust and noise on the print, and the accompanying audio of a projector. A slight blur has been added, but even this can’t disguise the notion that this alien has too much detail to have been filmed on a cine camera in the 1940s to 1960s timeframe! Look at the veins in the forehead, and the tendons in the neck – there’s no way a camera of that era would have picked out that level of detail in that lighting. The ‘alien’ is a CGI model, with the footage ‘distressed’ to make it look authentic.
 
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NilbogBackwards

New Member
I'm glad to see someone support the theory that some live action elements are at play in the main Bob video.

You're not the first person to suggest that. There is a VFX artist on Reddit who took a stab at what elements he thought might be necessary and surprisingly mostly convinced that the character work is some kind of puppetry or a mix of puppetry and digital effects.

The post claims to be by Ben Philips (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1592943/)

They also find the work impressive and assume it would take a budget to pull off:



I don't agree with Ben on everything and in the comments it's clear that he would enjoy knowing that they are real. I do think it illustrates the point that you can't just say "somebody made this in a weekend using Clip Art." There is enough meat to spark the interest of a few video professionals at least.

The major thing that people tend to miss: Lighting CG characters is hard, motion tracking is hard, key frame animation is HARD, making skin detail look convincing is HAAAARRRD. This is all true on brand new equipment.

Once again since we're on a skeptical forum: I believe the Bob videos to be the work of one or more professional VFX artists created for currently unknown reasons. I believe it took more than a few days, and a high level of skill to make - doubly so considering the year of release.

Another VFX artist (Richard Allan - Post Production Technical Instructor at Staffordshire University) commented in 2011 that it's obviously CGI because camera's of the era the footage is pretending to come from could not handle the level of detail on the character model:

Does anyone suspect it was made by Ben Philips and friends? He would be the perfect candidate.
 

NilbogBackwards

New Member
Managed to find reuploads of the Mr351Nova (now 'Wade Nova') hoax attempt.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKNiAoJQk0U

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNJiGuSZQFQ


Looks like the same MO to me, slowed down footage with a filter on top. The first video apparently comes from this TV documentary; https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3978114/.

I'm 95% sure "Mr351nova" is involved with Skinny Bob. He's a strange character...his youtube channel has changed a lot over the years and so has his name. Is it Wade or Billy? My guess is neither. I noticed he posted a fair amount on foreign tube sites like this Kazakh one:

https://kzclip.com/video/eQEYuSBikog/an-exclusive-interview-with-erin-gray.html

Kind of weird for a guy named Billy from Missouri.
 

MclachlanM

Active Member
I'm 95% sure "Mr351nova" is involved with Skinny Bob. He's a strange character...his youtube channel has changed a lot over the years and so has his name. Is it Wade or Billy? My guess is neither. I noticed he posted a fair amount on foreign tube sites like this Kazakh one:

https://kzclip.com/video/eQEYuSBikog/an-exclusive-interview-with-erin-gray.html

Kind of weird for a guy named Billy from Missouri.
Good find! A strange character indeed. As far as his names go I have heard the following:

Mike Ward
Mike Ward.jpg

Billy Cruise, 42y.o.
Billy Cruise.jpg

Wade, from Clearfield
wade 43.jpg1625001930886.png

Looking at the comments from some of the people who were online with him in the gaming days it seems he started to become less involved with novaworldgaming about nine years ago. (he was still Mr351Nova here)
1625002289025.png
1625002304240.png

Then seemingly got back into UFOlogy about 5 years ago?
1625002240111.png

Unfortunately I think a lot of this has been lost to time and even though I'm pretty sure this is our guy we're unlikely to get definitive proof.
 

gabelewis

New Member
Good find! A strange character indeed. As far as his names go I have heard the following:

Unfortunately I think a lot of this has been lost to time and even though I'm pretty sure this is our guy we're unlikely to get definitive proof.
I would love to see the videos being referred to in these posts - it sounds like they are not necessarily of comparable quality? Comparison might not reveal much because the limits of different programs are such that there would not necessarily be an artist signature so to speak. It would be an interesting puzzle piece nonetheless.

EDIT: Sorry I missed the videos! I would say that comparison doesn't yield much but his denial is also not credible. He's a decent candidate.
 
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NilbogBackwards

New Member
I would love to see the videos being referred to in these posts - it sounds like they are not necessarily of comparable quality? Comparison might not reveal much because the limits of different programs are such that there would not necessarily be an artist signature so to speak. It would be an interesting puzzle piece nonetheless.

Scroll up...he linked to them.
 
Quite a discussion about this video. The movements of the alien give it away as CG, although we don't know how an alien would move... It better be not like a CG puppet. Adding noise is a common way to hide effects and defects, because it gives the brain free rein to connect the dots.
 

Eiskind

New Member
Great Thread. I would like to add some points.

- Old Movie Overlay etc.
The Old Movie effects are from Sapphire for BorisFX. And they are not the only ones. Almost all effects shown in this reddit posting are from Sapphire. These include the ghosting effect from the first UFO clip, the pillar boxes, the diagonal Rainbow Moire pattern etc. Visually, the different clips are streamlined as a result. It should be noted that the use of filters decreases over the videos. While the first Ivan video looks very poor in quality due to all the effects and filters, the use of filters in the other Ivan videos decreases steadily.


- Timecode
The timecode is fake much like the filters, the font is Consolas from 2006 and there is a "glitch" in the Skinny Bob video. Interestingly, someone took the trouble to use different redactions anyway. Additionally, the "case" numbers mentioned in the preamble to the videos have been included in the time code.


- MrNova351
He has nothing to do with the Ivan0135 / Skinny Bob video. The only thing he did was to take the above linked Alien clips from a TV show, overlay them with Windows Movie Maker and then upload them to Youtube. The Ivan0135 videos, on the other hand, have been massively edited and the origin of the very different clips is unknown to this day.


- CGI / Practical Effects
Opinions on how Skinny Bob could be faked vary widely. What stands out is that people who work in the CG field think that Skinny Bob is CGI while people from the film field tend to practical effects (puppet, animatronic, stop motion).

The analysis of Ben Philips was already linked above. So here are two more opinions:

Karlee Morse:
hmmmm... it looks like it could've been made as a stop motion puppet? more likely so than someone in full costume/make-up. it reminds me a lot of Ray Harryhausen creatures. Even the way it's rendered in black and white is reminiscent of this work. The way it moves is very stop-motion-like, and they've rendered the videos with a grainy overlay, so that's a way to blend the movement and make it more life-like.or it could be real, who knows? I can't say. it's well-executed and entertaining either way. :)

Mike Johnson:
"I don’t know if that’s a stopmo puppet. In my opinion it doesn’t look like stop-motion. It might be CG, or possibly live action with an animatronic mask, sort of like what Guillermo del Torro did in Pan’s Labyrinth. Or, it might be real footage of an alien. But I’m guessing it’s a hybrid of digital effects combined with a sophisticated animatronic mask."


What is also often overlooked is that Skinny Bob is not the only video. The clips from the first Ivan0135 video e.g. are real life shots and would have to be faked in different ways than "Skinny Bob" or "Family Vacation". The UFO crash scene, for example, could be a miniature shot. In addition, the autopsy sequence is a real life shot which shows an optically very similar "alien" as in the Skinny Bob clip.

In the case of a hoax, quite different techniques would have to be used for the many different clips.
 

Fin

Member
For me, the blinking is actually the WORST part of this and the most obvious hallmark of CG. When the blink takes place anyone who's ever UV wrapped a head will surely see the issue where the eyebrow part of the skull is stretching, rather than the LID extending. i.e. there is essentially no lid-flap hidden when the eye is open, so when bob blinks the skin pulls down too tightly around the eyebrow area of the skull where it should not.

I don't think it's just a happy coincidence, and somehow actually this race of aliens just has no eyelid flaps, so when they blink it looks stretchy. This is a classic UV wrapping/stretching issue!!
 

gabelewis

New Member
For me, the blinking is actually the WORST part of this and the most obvious hallmark of CG. When the blink takes place anyone who's ever UV wrapped a head will surely see the issue where the eyebrow part of the skull is stretching, rather than the LID extending. i.e. there is essentially no lid-flap hidden when the eye is open, so when bob blinks the skin pulls down too tightly around the eyebrow area of the skull where it should not.

I don't think it's just a happy coincidence, and somehow actually this race of aliens just has no eyelid flaps, so when they blink it looks stretchy. This is a classic UV wrapping/stretching issue!!

This is not how it appears to me (accidental or not.) To me it appears that the eyelid is folding under the eyebrow. I can identify both elements separately on any frame.

To me it just looks like a sharp brow line with an eyelid that folds further under the eye brow than it does on a human.

Also, in terms of creature design, brow/lid combos like this are not unheard of in nature. 1629683946719.png
 
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