Multiple UFOs near Southampton airport (2005)

Duke

Active Member
They do not look like helicopters to me, but if they are they are probably military. I know @ Z.W. Wolf filed an unproductive FOIA request directly with the MoD, but I think it would have been/be wiser to make such requests of the actual helo squadrons (then) stationed at the base (RAF Odiham) he mentioned.

In this case, a quick review of the units' Operations Record Book (ORB) for the date in question should indicate if they were conducting night time exercises or training sorties.
 

NorCal Dave

Senior Member.
They do not look like helicopters to me, but if they are they are probably military. I know @ Z.W. Wolf filed an unproductive FOIA request directly with the MoD, but I think it would have been/be wiser to make such requests of the actual helo squadrons (then) stationed at the base (RAF Odiham) he mentioned.

In this case, a quick review of the units' Operations Record Book (ORB) for the date in question should indicate if they were conducting night time exercises or training sorties.
Z.W. Wolf makes a good case back in post #41 & #42, though not conclusive. And he, Wolf, did not file a FOIA, that was done by johne1618, the OP.

As I said, one drawback, is that the training would have taken place right over the top of a popular county park and close to the airport, and if they're that close, he our videographer would have heard something. Another strange thing is the repeating pattern followed by the lights on the right of the screen. Would helicopters do this?

The video also has a weird provenance. The claim is that this occurred at 23:45 on 8/26 in 2005. Three small sections of it were first uploaded, two years later in 2007. One each on 1/28 and 1/29 and then a third one 6 months later in July. They are purported, in the accompanying descriptions, to be cell phone recordings of the CCTV screen he was watching. In the first post, the description also says that the sighting lasted over 2 hours:

Jan 28, 2007 Seen over Southampton in August 2005 Don't know what they where but i counted 11 of them over a 2 hour period
Content from External Source
Jul 31, 2007 As before i had to record these clips by holding my 2m camera at the cctv screen. This clip shows a slight delay in starting, sorry about that.
Content from External Source
1665695523482.png
https://www.youtube.com/c/id001277/videos

Then in 2011, the same person posts the video we are discussing now. It seems to be the original footage from the security camera/system, though no mention is made as to where the footage came from or how he obtained it 6 years later. The footage also lasts nowhere near 2 hours, so that claim seems to have been dropped when this video was posted.

Note also, that there is no timestamp on any of these, despite it being security footage that was presumably kept and stored. I don't know how normal that is.

That was it. From 2012-2015 he posted 8 more videos, all dealing with strange sounds he recorded or found and then analyzed resulting in what seems to be some audio pareidolia.
 

Duke

Active Member
Z.W. Wolf makes a good case back in post #41 & #42, though not conclusive. And he, Wolf, did not file a FOIA, that was done by johne1618, the OP.

As I said, one drawback, is that the training would have taken place right over the top of a popular county park and close to the airport, and if they're that close, he our videographer would have heard something. Another strange thing is the repeating pattern followed by the lights on the right of the screen. Would helicopters do this?

The video also has a weird provenance. The claim is that this occurred at 23:45 on 8/26 in 2005. Three small sections of it were first uploaded, two years later in 2007. One each on 1/28 and 1/29 and then a third one 6 months later in July. They are purported, in the accompanying descriptions, to be cell phone recordings of the CCTV screen he was watching. In the first post, the description also says that the sighting lasted over 2 hours:

Jan 28, 2007 Seen over Southampton in August 2005 Don't know what they where but i counted 11 of them over a 2 hour period
Content from External Source
Jul 31, 2007 As before i had to record these clips by holding my 2m camera at the cctv screen. This clip shows a slight delay in starting, sorry about that.
Content from External Source
1665695523482.png
https://www.youtube.com/c/id001277/videos

Then in 2011, the same person posts the video we are discussing now. It seems to be the original footage from the security camera/system, though no mention is made as to where the footage came from or how he obtained it 6 years later. The footage also lasts nowhere near 2 hours, so that claim seems to have been dropped when this video was posted.

Note also, that there is no timestamp on any of these, despite it being security footage that was presumably kept and stored. I don't know how normal that is.

That was it. From 2012-2015 he posted 8 more videos, all dealing with strange sounds he recorded or found and then analyzed resulting in what seems to be some audio pareidolia.
Thanks for the correction on the FOIA filer, my apologies to @johne1618. My comment relative to filing a request to the individual squadrons vice the MoD still stands, however. If the helo squadrons are still operational, they should still hold their ORBs. If the squadron have disbanded, the ORBs are probably held at the National Archives in Kew. I have reviewed ORBs from the Archives in the past, but they were from WWII.

I agree Wolf did a fine job in making a case in the two posts you cited, but also agree it's inconclusive. If those are helicopters, I doubt they are Chinooks. I'd be more inclined to think they are smaller helos like the Army Air Corps scout or attack helicopters such as the Lynx, Gazelle, and Apache. Not only are they far more nimble than the large, twin rotor Chinooks, but quieter. Chinooks are very loud.

Great research on the provenance of the video and the somewhat erratic posting history of the submitter. Don't know what to make of that, other than to say not much would surprise having looked at countless UFO postings on YouTube and UFO websites. I remember one guy who posted dozens of videos he claimed as UFOs despite red and green navigation lights were clearly visible in most of them.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
. I still think it looks like cars driving head long towards the camera then making a left-hand turn. The other lights look like cars, or a train, traveling along from right to left. But it's all up in the air above the trees, so that doesn't seem to work.
that would require a superior mirage, which is quite rare
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
Can you explain to us layman what a superior mirage is, and why one would be required in the scenario @NorCal Dave described? Why is it rare?
Mirages were discussed in this thread from post #26.

Compare also https://www.metabunk.org/threads/simulating-atmospheric-refraction.7881/post-228236 where Mick set up his refraction simulator to show one, and https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...gana-or-mirage-false-horizon.9112/post-273609 where Mark displays a) not a mirage, b) a mirage over the English Channel, with video footage in the following post.
I am so proud of the second picture because a superior mirage is quite rare in the UK.
 

Ann K

Senior Member.
Can you explain to us layman what a superior mirage is, and why one would be required in the scenario @NorCal Dave described? Why is it rare?
A superior mirage forms when there's a layer of warm air overlying a layer of cold air, and the image of things on the ground appears up in the air. And since hot air is lighter than cold, it can be a very stable condition which lasts a long time.

An exceptional long-lasting superior mirage was documented in Cleveland many years ago, in which the residents could see clear visions of Canada, fifty miles away across Lake Erie.


Eyewitness accounts have long been part of the city's history.

"The whole sweep of the Canadian shore stood out as if less than three miles away," a story in The Plain Dealer proclaimed in 1906. "The distant points across the lake stood out for nearly an hour and then faded away."
Content from External Source
https://www.foxnews.com/story/scien...-view-across-lake-erie-theoretically-possible

Edit to add: I read a more detailed story in the Plain Dealer (maybe 30 years ago) but I'm unable to find that. Cleveland residents reported seeing it so clearly that they could see people and carriages moving on the streets.
I wonder if those in Canada could also see Cleveland, but as far as I can remember, that was not mentioned.
 
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NorCal Dave

Senior Member.
that would require a superior mirage, which is quite rare
Agreed. But I'll offer two points:

1. As you often note, things end up here because they're rare and out of the ordinary. If this guy caught a rare SM on camera one night and didn't realize it, it would look like UFOs.

2. By all accounts it was a warm night, but the coolest air should be at the low and damp point in the landscape. That should be the Itchen River, which right where the camera is looking. If a SM could form, this would be an ideal spot, right? Warm air flowing over the cooler damper air along the river.

IF, big if, that did happen what are we seeing? If this is the approximate field of view (red lines) than look at the blue circle and lines. Viewed from the camera, might a car on this road appear as lights heading from right to left across the screen, then turning left, putting the headlights directly into the camera before completing the turn and heading back the other direction?

1665768023114.png

The other thing the twitter video did, was show that many of the lights repeat in the same fashion in almost exactly the same spot. Particularly, the lights that come from the right and appear to make a U turn back to the right. They appear in ones and twos and follow the same path before "turning", which is when they flash brighter, then heading back the other way.

I don't see helicopters or RC planes following these paths and turns in that degree of repetitiveness. They might follow a flight path or search grid, but to arrive at and turn at nearly the exact same spot multiple times seems a stretch.

Here is one shot from 1:35 and one from 2:16. This compares two of the times the right-hand light hits the turn, flashes and heads back to the right. Look at the bright light just to the right. It has just made the "turn" and is flashing bright before dimming and heading back to the right. To the degree the two are not exactly in the same spot is more a consequence of my screen grabs being off a little. Note how the YouTube symbols along the bottom of the screens are offset the same as the light. I'm pretty sure the lights are in exactly the same spot.



If this is the same for the other times the right-hand light enters and turns, and I think it is, then whatever the lights are, they're in a fixed position, or following a fixed path.
 

Ann K

Senior Member.
An exceptional long-lasting superior mirage was documented in Cleveland many years ago, in which the residents could see clear visions of Canada, fifty miles away across Lake Erie.
The reports of the Cleveland mirage in my previous post seem to indicate an extreme level of magnification of the image. If that's the case here, it's possible that something much further away than it seems is being shown.
 
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