Max and the WhistleBlower

Unfortunately I don't really think the hoax is going to help those people. It's a TL;DR thing. It's just stirred things up.
Did you not think on deleting the admission Mick? When I read it that was my first thought especially given the claims had been so effectively debunked.
 
Metabunk, for lack of a viable alternative, has become a focus for these believers.
Even if the hoaxer had not posted here, Metabunk would have been implicated by some anyway.
While it is inconvenient, what is not revealed is the many who see the name and come here to find an oasis of sanity, and leave feeling less afraid.
The tiny amount of true believers who express outrage are vastly outnumbered by those who are comforted.

"They" will never give us any good publicity. This time last year they dared not even mention the word, over the past year they were forced to address us because virtually any serach on their subjects now brings up a link. They have been seeking a Quixotic "critical mass" when they expected revelations of biblical proportions
that will never come. While they dithered, our critical mass has begun to swell and this is how they dealt with it - two minutes of hate followed by a "Pep Rally".
 


What story is Scott Stevens saying Metabunk pulled? It's all still here.

On another note, this is from Suzanne Holmes, well known lurker and troll who has many alternate screen names. She lurks FB and metabunk and reports back to Russ Tanner. As most conspiracy believers do, she obviously did not read the entire episode, and is attributing the hoax to Metabunk or is just outright lying.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/40556352568/
"From "Chemtrails Awareness" page, and I couldn't have said it better......"The shills have become desperate in their attempts to discredit the Chemtrail community. Infiltrating, lying, and total deception is their way. This time, they posed as an insider in the chemtrail program, and produced FAKE documents and stories. Then, after the story is bought by a chemtrail activist, they expose themselves as liars, and they say it is to show us in this community how we "fall for anything" as long as it fits into what we already believe to be true. This kind of deception is inexcusable. It just shows the lengths they will go to deceive. Be careful out there, this group of disinfo agents thrives on spreading complete lies. NO matter what they do, they cannot stop the truth, and their OBVIOUS LIES just shows how LOW they are."
 
Metabunk, for lack of a viable alternative, has become a focus for these believers.

Madisonstar moon has told me that I am "tainted" because I post here. She asked me if I was illuminati or a Freemason. Anything to explain why I don't believe in what she and her "millions" of fellow believers do.

You either believe the conspiracy or you're part of it. Typical.
 
Madison considers Mick to be some sort of arch-enemy and that was already her attitude before this latest event. I'm not sure anyone can predict or plan for reactions. It's just a given that "we" are the enemy and especially any figurehead or perceived leader like Mick. This thing is going to come to a head. It's inevitable.
 
Last edited:
What story is Scott Stevens saying Metabunk pulled? It's all still here.

On another note, this is from Suzanne Holmes, well known lurker and troll who has many alternate screen names. She lurks FB and metabunk and reports back to Russ Tanner. As most conspiracy believers do, she obviously did not read the entire episode, and is attributing the hoax to Metabunk or is just outright lying.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/40556352568/
"From "Chemtrails Awareness" page, and I couldn't have said it better......"The shills have become desperate in their attempts to discredit the Chemtrail community. Infiltrating, lying, and total deception is their way. This time, they posed as an insider in the chemtrail program, and produced FAKE documents and stories. Then, after the story is bought by a chemtrail activist, they expose themselves as liars, and they say it is to show us in this community how we "fall for anything" as long as it fits into what we already believe to be true. This kind of deception is inexcusable. It just shows the lengths they will go to deceive. Be careful out there, this group of disinfo agents thrives on spreading complete lies. NO matter what they do, they cannot stop the truth, and their OBVIOUS LIES just shows how LOW they are."


What else is new? It's built into their belief system. I think there is no way to avoid this sort of reaction.
 
This aircrap link was posted on Max's wall a couple of hours ago. It's 404 not found now

http://aircrap.org/max-bliss-contacted-chemtrail-whistle-blower-beginning/338008/

Link is working again. They have made an update. And one link of the update goes to this thread.

Time for a screenshot, just to be shure, if this article will be editided again.



(Yellow markings done by me - and I am repeating the words Chemtrails CHEMTRAILS Whistleblower Max Bliss Debunk Metabunk HOAX, Max Bliss Chemtrails Whistleblower Hoax Fake FAKE! Fake!!!! - just to give the Bots searching here something to do) :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Did you not think on deleting the admission Mick? When I read it that was my first thought especially given the claims had been so effectively debunked.

I prefer just to be honest about the whole thing. So I added the disclaimer, explaining the extent of my involvement (none), and that of other people here (none that I know of). Deleting posts would just be seen as some kind of cover up.

The reaction to it seems ridiculous. But we have to remember that these are people whose entire life revolves around this belief system. They feel attacked. So they get defensive. It's perfectly understandable.
 
Happened across this: http://beforeitsnews.com/chemtrails/2013/08/career-chemtrail-trolls-exposed-2431134.html

It's an attack article on Jay, first, but then moves on to Mick and Ross.

This is a fairly important concession, wrapped in an incorrect statement and preceded by a partially correct allegation.

Reynolds and Marsden allegedly have advanced degrees and sometimes their posts are actually correct on technical issues that have no real debunking impact on the conclusive evidence for aerosol spraying by jet aircraft.
Content from External Source
I have a pretty ordinary BSc degree in mathematics from the University of Auckland, NZ.
About what I typically post, it has no impact because it addresses the core issue of what the trails are, whereas the so called evidence for aerosol spraying by jet aircraft does not.

I'm totally going to change my profile picture(s).
 
Okay, specifically, THAT guy, and others like him in their community who share that observable trait.

Maybe I should have elaborated - it's the implied assessment in the phrase "these people" (or the like) that I am talking about.

Imagine for a moment that you are a chemtrail believer and re-read the postings with different eyes. Are there any that you may perceive as a judgement about you as a person or as a member of a group?

Linking back to Strawman's post which essentially covers the same issue:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/max-and-the-whistleblower.2144/#post-59271
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This time, they posed as an insider in the chemtrail program, and produced FAKE documents and stories. Then, after the story is bought by a chemtrail activist, they expose themselves as liars, and they say it is to show us in this community how we "fall for anything" as long as it fits into what we already believe to be true. [...]NO matter what they do, they cannot stop the truth, and their OBVIOUS LIES just shows how LOW they are."

It's amazing how she fails to spot the contradiction. If the lies were so obvious, why did they fall for them? I don't want to condone the fake, but they should at least have walk out of it with a bit more self-awareness.
 
I'm totally going to change my profile picture(s).[/ex]

I happen to like your picture! I mean, I use a pig or my dog.

I think what Metabunk has done about this has been first class. It's why I stayed quiet until now. If it were a coordinated effort, it couldn't have been more well done. It's a shame people will now be "coming after" you three guys in particular. If people would just establish a timeline of events and postings, they would clearly see it was thoroughly debunked here before the reveal. But believers as a group seem reactionary. As many times as has been pointed out that they ambush (recent NASA "chemtrail" mention), cherry pick, misrepresent, misunderstand, make assumptions from ignorance, and totally conform to the very definition of confirmation bias, this reaction is expected.
That they miss the actual target is just sad. But expected none the less. You guys put a face on the term 'debunker'. Ross's face has a cool beard, though.
I hide behind my dog. Or pig. Depends on which account I am using. ;)
Content from External Source
 
Last edited:
From the career debunkers piece, unedited:
In desperation to the recent critical mass of chemtrail awakening, Jeremy has resorted to character assassinations. I have not ruled out organic-brain syndrome in Reynolds and I have no evidence Reynolds, Marsden or West are, or are not compensated for their “work”.
Content from External Source
Are they being serious? I don't even....

That piece actually has no information at all. No arguments, only ad hominems with (more than) a pinch of wanted poster.
 
From the career debunkers piece, unedited:
In desperation to the recent critical mass of chemtrail awakening, Jeremy has resorted to character assassinations. I have not ruled out organic-brain syndrome in Reynolds and I have no evidence Reynolds, Marsden or West are, or are not compensated for their “work”.
Content from External Source
Are they being serious? I don't even....

That piece actually has no information at all. No arguments, only ad hominems with (more than) a pinch of wanted poster.
Oh I don't know. I think it was accurate to say Ross has a shite looking beard on his profile picture.
 
From the career debunkers piece, unedited:
In desperation to the recent critical mass of chemtrail awakening, Jeremy has resorted to character assassinations. I have not ruled out organic-brain syndrome in Reynolds and I have no evidence Reynolds, Marsden or West are, or are not compensated for their “work”.
Content from External Source
Are they being serious? I don't even....

That piece actually has no information at all. No arguments, only ad hominems with (more than) a pinch of wanted poster.


The only "critical mass" reached is that of the exasperation debunkers share over this kind of thing. But it is typical. Most forums (without politeness clauses in TOS) become nothing of relevance and lots of calls of shill, disinfo agent, troll and attempts at insults of our intelligence, efforts and morals. Thank goodness for "rolling eyes" smilies. It goes by the (toned down a bit) rule my Grandpa taught me, "If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance (which no "chemtrail" believer has), drown them with male bovine excrement."
 
Given that Max appears to be deleting any comments off Youtube with regards to the hoax and has not made a "statement" what is the position if The Referee decides to post the rest of the communications on Metabunk?
 
The Beforeitsnews hit piece is most likely the work of Harold Saive. I get first billing because I fingered him correctly as the original instigator of the idea about TMA.
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ma...s-airline-insider-speaks-out.2132/#post-59008

It is going to get worse, much worse. On a recent broadcast, Dane Wigington announced that his coworker Yvonne Nachtigal was creating a website specifically designed to target those they considered threats to the hoax. The site will lay out a case targeting supposed personal responsibility for what chemtrail believers have long been calling a "genocide". It will include contact points for individuals.

Essentially, Wigington is calling for a website which will be a "hit list" of people his followers should target for their fantasy. He seems particularly incensed about NASA's cloud identification site for school children. I will dig up the quote presently.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Maybe I should have elaborated - it's the implied assessment in the phrase "these people" (or the like) that I am talking about.

Imagine for a moment that you are a chemtrail believer and re-read the postings with different eyes. Are there any that you may perceive as a judgement about you as a person or as a member of a group?

Linking back to Strawman's post which essentially covers the same issue:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/max-and-the-whistleblower.2144/#post-59271
Well if we are not to share our reactions and opinions here, then where?
Can we only talk if we have a verifiable fact or article to back up our opinion or make completely value-neutral statements?
We have human responses to this situation and it is natural to share them on a forum where we engage in talk about various topics.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The Beforeitsnews hit piece is most likely the work of Harold Saive. I get first billing because I fingered him correctly as the original instigator of the idea about TMA.
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ma...s-airline-insider-speaks-out.2132/#post-59008

...

It is definitely Harold Saive. Up the top it says "By Hsaive", and there is a link to his "bio".
http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/pages/10/958/bio.html
No doubt about it, Jay, that's our friend Harold.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The Beforeitsnews hit piece is most likely the work of Harold Saive. I get first billing because I fingered him correctly as the original instigator of the idea about TMA.
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ma...s-airline-insider-speaks-out.2132/#post-59008

It is going to get worse, much worse. On a recent broadcast, Dane Wigington announced that his coworker Yvonne Nachtigal was creating a website specifically designed to target those they considered threats to the hoax. The site will lay out a case targeting supposed personal responsibility for what chemtrail believers have long been calling a "genocide". It will include contact points for individuals.

Essentially, Wigington is calling for a website which will be a "hit list" of people his followers should target for their fantasy. He seems particularly incensed about NASA's cloud identification site for school children. I will dig up the quote presently.

When these people begin to talk about "hit lists" that's when I get more and more convinced that an open and honest debate MUST be made before these people do something really crazy.
The problem with believers of unrealistic conspiracy theories is that whatever they perceive as a solution won't change what they perceive as the problem. And because no efforts seem to produce a positive change for themselves (because the problem they perceive doesn't exist in reality) will force them to more and more desperate methods when nothing happens. It's basically an escalating state of paranoia, which can lead to range of mental illnesses, not least schizophrenia.

People need to be informed that there is another side to these things. But I know from first hand experience how effective this type of conspiranoia is, because long time ago I was once and unsuspectingly confronted with claims about Illuminati, something that freaked me out in a way that I could not think straight for some weeks. That's because I, at the time, basically had no intellectual means to question the claims. And in my desperate search for comforting news I accidentally stumbled upon sceptical (debunking) information. Perhaps if I encountered more conspiranoid sites first I would be one of them instead. Feels a bit scary to know how easily you can sink into the conspiracy bog if you are gullible.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
http://chemtrailsplanet.net/2013/08...show-reveals-link-to-chemtrail-troll-network/

But corpse media keeps inviting Mick to provide the skeptics point of view on chemtrails and military weather weapons known to exist. Perhaps it’s because Mick West is nearly the last chemtrail skeptic left alive.
...
The Metabubunk.org trolls were drooling to post how Dr. Agnew had been “debunked”. About 10 seconds after Mick uploaded his warped post, a hoard of informed skywatchers descended on the site to lay waste to Mick’s cointelpro in the comments section. *** more

Content from External Source
Wait, what? They must have left after 10 seconds as well.

It all seems very silly, putting up hyperbolic articles. Nobody came here to address the issue, as far as I know. I've got ONE email on the topic, and a couple of prods on Twitter and Facebook. It seems like this is a big deal for a small number of people.
 
Last edited:
http://chemtrailsplanet.net/2013/08...show-reveals-link-to-chemtrail-troll-network/

But corpse media keeps inviting Mick to provide the skeptics point of view on chemtrails and military weather weapons known to exist. Perhaps it’s because Mick West is nearly the last chemtrail skeptic left alive.


Content from External Source
Wait, what? They must have left after 10 seconds as well.

It all seems very silly, putting up hyperbolic articles. Nobody came here to address the issue, as far as I know. I've got ONE email on the topic, and a couple of prods on Twitter and Facebook. It seems like this is a big deal for a small number of people.

Wait what? Mick, you are "nearly the last chemtrail skeptic alive?" It would take some time to study, but if you visit the Facebook chemtrail pages, the youtube pages, the Global March pages, it seems the few 10,000 of thousands are the only supporters of the "chemtrail" movement, certainly not a majority.
If you listen closely you will hear Rogan and West greet each other with so much familiarity you might suspect they were life-long friends.
Content from External Source
I thought Joe intruced all guests with the same cordiality, he only rolled his eyes, pursed his lips, etc. after the guest spoke.

I'd have to watch again, how much air time did you (Mick) get, how much time did Meghan, Scott, Michael, Billy, Nick, (who did I miss) to present their case?
 
Yeah actually, I was really the only skeptic there, and did not get that much time.

Yeah, it didn't take very much time to debunk the whole idea. The other guests did most of the damage to themselves, as they usually do even without the TV editing.
 
http://chemtrailsplanet.net/2013/08...show-reveals-link-to-chemtrail-troll-network/

But corpse media keeps inviting Mick to provide the skeptics point of view on chemtrails and military weather weapons known to exist. Perhaps it’s because Mick West is nearly the last chemtrail skeptic left alive.
...
The Metabubunk.org trolls were drooling to post how Dr. Agnew had been “debunked”. About 10 seconds after Mick uploaded his warped post, a hoard of informed skywatchers descended on the site to lay waste to Mick’s cointelpro in the comments section. *** more

Content from External Source
Wait, what? They must have left after 10 seconds as well.

It all seems very silly, putting up hyperbolic articles. Nobody came here to address the issue, as far as I know. I've got ONE email on the topic, and a couple of prods on Twitter and Facebook. It seems like this is a big deal for a small number of people.

It's always astounding to see people just make stuff up and apparently to come to think it's true as they type it. I'm afraid this sort of thinking and action is what drives the chemtrail story. I don't see a good end to it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
http://chemtrailsplanet.net/2013/08...show-reveals-link-to-chemtrail-troll-network/


MikeC says:
AUGUST 8, 2013 AT 9:32 PM


I looked at metabunk but there seems to be little or no response from “informed skywatchers” to his article about this there – and he’s usually not shy about allowing anyone to post and attacking them afterwards. Or are you talking about them posting somewhere else??

So now Mick has a record now, huh?

If Mick has a records and Harold fully expects Mick to delete comments, I bet he has make some screenshots to keep as proof. He would have.
 
About 10 seconds after Mick uploaded his warped post, a hoard of informed skywatchers descended on the site to lay waste to Mick’s cointelpro in the comments section.
Content from External Source
I love the dramatic style of this description of the events.
 
About 10 seconds after Mick uploaded his warped post, a hoard of informed skywatchers descended on the site to lay waste to Mick’s cointelpro in the comments section.
Content from External Source
I love the dramatic style of this description of the events.

You mean his dramatic description of events which never happened?

Saive has now posted this:

http://chemtrailsplanet.net/2013/08...show-reveals-link-to-chemtrail-troll-network/

hsaive says:
AUGUST 9, 2013 AT 9:08 AM

"I read several yesterday with more coming in. If Mick took them down you won’t see them. I would not lie to you but Mick has a record."
 
hsaive says:
AUGUST 9, 2013 AT 9:08 AM

"I read several yesterday with more coming in. If Mick took them down you won’t see them. I would not lie to you but Mick has a record."

Rule #1- If a person has to say, "I would not lie to you but....".
It means they are lying to you.

Harold actually does have a record, it is public and documented.

We had a look at his rain water tests which showed poor methodology but normal levels of aluminum.
He came and demanded that we should stop. He never addressed any of the faults in his claims. He ran away and never came back:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...ida-test-positive-for-aluminum.313/#post-2695

So much for Harold. I'd like to say exactly what I think of what that shows about his character, but that would probably violate politeness policy.
H
e shows himself well enough. If he could "lay waste" to something, he would have. Instead he just tried to avoid the real issues altogether by exerting censorship of criticism.

I will debate Harold. Contact me, dude and we'll make some arrangements.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
And if I took down these posts, why don't they just post the information they contain elsewhere?

I constantly invite corrections. If there's something wrong on metabunk.org, then they can point it out, and I'll correct it.

I know of zero outstanding requests for corrections.
 
Still trying to help my buddy Max.
Posted to his blog, "Awaiting Moderation":
http://mrmaxbliss.wordpress.com/201...e-chemtrail-files/comment-page-1/#comment-248


I've determined that I need to become his best friend forever, and will seek to let him know everything that has been hidden by his misleaders.

I was just rereading his blog and it became clear where he gets his figure for 0.008 ug/l Al in rainwater. He has taken the upper figure 8 ug/m3 for air converted it to litres. However he fails to understand that the content of solids in rainwater is not directly proportional to what is in the air. I suggest he reads around "Rainwater Scavenging" as different types if precipitation will contain differing proportions of solids. I would suggest that a move to air sampling may be called for and maybe hire a sampler and set it up near a CEH/DEFRA system to validate their results (any interested group can do this)

I note he has addressed the TMA issue. However his claim now is that a 15% suspension of TMA in hexane is added at a proportion of 22% of the fuel. That means that fuel contains 3.3% TMA. Jay has already demonstrated that TMA will produce a lesser amount of Aluminium oxide therefore for every metric tonne of fuel burned less than 33kg of aluminium oxide will be produced. I would suggest that at that quantity it would not look like the long trails in the sky (I have no idea how much fuel is burned per mile).
 
Back
Top