Max and the WhistleBlower

mrfintoil

Senior Member.
Well, here is an example of how this information have been used:


Source: http://aircrap.org/max-bliss-contacted-chemtrail-whistle-blower-beginning/338008/

I've seen the image collage to the right being used before, stating that the "unknown trail" in the middle is "anomalous". Speculation have now begun that this "anomalous" detail might be leakage from the so called "envirotainer", when in reality it is actually exhaust heat from the AP-unit that is forming a shorter contrail. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auxiliary_power_unit

Also read: "747's "Fifth" Contrail Source?" http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/29016/

Edit, just noticed the line "jets are spraying aerosols - not contrails". Well, the ice particles in a contrail is pretty much an aerosol. Seems like the image originates from Harold Saive, I think this is just an example of how this man doesn't understand what he is talking about when it comes to contrails.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Strawman

Senior Member.
Funny how that's exactly not what happened. There was no pack patting. What is he talking about?

This site has been extraordinarily conscious about denigration, Mick has never mocked anyone here. The reason their ideas are being discussed is because they are wrong, not because they are the truth. Has he read anything here at all? Does he expect his readers not to read here as well and find him wrong in his assessment?

Really, this is just spin.
 

Strawman

Senior Member.
It seems metabunk functions in their discourse as a kind of other or an outside. It's better not to know it, but it's easy to, I don't like the word, project something onto.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
But that's the type of reaction that you are going to get. They won't read the threads here. They blame me, because this is my site, and so they think I arranged it. It's not going to help me communicate.

I've added a disclaimer to the OP
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/max-and-the-whistleblower.2144/
Max reads here. In his original blog he admits to getting lines of research from here. Unfortunately they seem unable to differentiate between Metabunk and Facebook groups.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Jay Uzi

New Member
Many may not agree with the authors "style"... But it strikes right to the heart of these believers. They know it affects the "future" believers. I do not think it was done to change the ones who have their minds made up. But for the ones searching for answers, to see what the foundation of their claims are build upon.

It's kind of a preventative maintenance... Stopping the next generation of believers before they buy into the whole theory. I applaud the work.
 

mrfintoil

Senior Member.
It's kind of a preventative maintenance... Stopping the next generation of believers before they buy into the whole theory. I applaud the work.
From my experience this is usually the point when debating these (for a lack of better word) "hardcore" believers. Don't expect them to sway in opinion because you are trying to reason with them, because they most likely never will. But their audience might very will sway in opinion if you provide a better case. People with deep emotional conviction will always put every psychological defence mechanism on full effect when directly confronted. Bystanders or audiences are in this sense more "relaxed" and open minded since they are not the ones being in a stressful discussion defending beliefs.
 

Strawman

Senior Member.
Yeah, but catering to the beliefs of "hardcore" believers is not a debate. It will only push them further down the rabbithole. Anything you do will make them feel targeted. So, if you debate them, make it factual, make is calm, make it evidence based.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
From my experience this is usually the point when debating these (for a lack of better word) "hardcore" believers. Don't expect them to sway in opinion because you are trying to reason with them, because they most likely never will. But their audience might very will sway in opinion if you provide a better case. People with deep emotional conviction will always put every psychological defence mechanism on full effect when directly confronted. Bystanders or audiences are in this sense more "relaxed" and open minded since they are not the ones being in a stressful discussion defending beliefs.
But if the debate with the hardcore becomes antagonistic, then some of the the bystanders are going to side with the underdog. It's difficult to see a net benefit here. The hoax itself is too complicated to easily be conveyed as anything more than a contextless anecdote.

I would like to be able to talk to people on the more sensible edge of the hardcore, and attacks on their community make that difficult. Here's some feedback I got yesterday:

I explained it was not me. But to no avail.
 

TheMindBoggles

New Member
"i can turn you in
to the internet police
for lying about Max"

Quite possibly, *the* funniest thing I have seen all week.

Why can they not just come to terms with the fact their "hero", Max Bliss, was stitched up like a kipper!
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
"i can turn you in
to the internet police
for lying about Max"

Quite possibly, *the* funniest thing I have seen all week.

Why can they not just come to terms with the fact their "hero", Max Bliss, was stitched up like a kipper!
Same reason they can't come to terms with the fact that contrails sometimes persist for hours. It's not part of their world view.

This hoax project had unreasonable expectations. While it's a good illustration, it's preaching to the choir whilst riling up an angry mob.
 

Strawman

Senior Member.
I explained it was not me. But to no avail.
Yeah, in this antagonized debate, this will happen. It will just not be registered that there are lots of individual people out there, with individual characters, humors and interests. Thus, some, if not a lot, of people will be very antagonistic and denegrating towards chemtrailers. Chemtrailers, on the other hand, can just go fishing for antagonistic opponents and present them as the whole. The internet, with its tradition of trolling, will just work for this, every time.
 

TheMindBoggles

New Member
They truly believe they are "closer than ever" to "discovering the truth", when surely all this hoax demonstrates is they have progressed no further than the day they started?
The only good thing to come out of this, is it will deter future 'truth seekers' as it shows Max Bliss' claims have not an ounce of truth or substance to them....
 

Strawman

Senior Member.
I have the feeling that any debate, any activity and any acknowledgement of their arguments will eventually be understood as progress, as being close to breaking the truth, etc. The last week has been extraordinarily busy, with several debates, the Bliss hoax and its revelation.

No wonder they claim success.
 

GregMc

Senior Member.
It's rather unfortunate that the hoaxer made their disclosure here and not on Max's blog or elsewhere.
A number of threads here have been devoted specifically to debunking the letters and pointing them out to Max and others as being a hoax.
Hopefully anyone following the story will be able to read back and see that it was metabunk that indicated from the outset the claims must be a hoax rather than encouraging anyone to believe the letters.

The issue is will any of the outraged bother to read metabunk for the proof the hoax was debunked here first or just believe the spin that somehow metabunk promoted/created the hoax.
We didn't "cover up" their investigations. We pointed out in quite a degree of detail that the claims in the hoax letters were without merit.
There is no reason they should have egg on their faces if they had investigated the comments here that indicated we thought a hoax was being perpetrated.
Hopefully if they have curiosity they might re-read through the detailed explanations provided here and think about the process of thought that indicated to us that the letters were fake
 

TheMindBoggles

New Member
No one is trying to cover up their investigations, as their "investigations" have lead them to a dead end. They are back to square one, back to the drawing board.

OK, maybe "egg on their faces" was a tad insensitive of me.
Max Bliss believed this hoax to be *so* true that he claims he had "mainstream media" ready to take this on, and was happy to shout this from the rooftops! I just can't get my head around the fact none of these claims, made by his "insider", were properly looked into, before "mainstream media" were contacted? To me that is simple common sense...
 

JFDee

Senior Member.
Quite possibly, *the* funniest thing I have seen all week.
I think this reaction is not funny in the least. It shows that it will be much harder to get believers to read more than just the topic titles here in the future.

To be honest, I dislike those (few) self-gratulatory posts that popped up here after the hoax disclosure.

I urge those who tend to come here mainly for amusement to apply more restraint. It does not hurt to stop and think a moment before pressing the "Reply" button, and then trying to imagine how a conspiracy believer would perceive the content of the posting.

Stop the ridiculing and the self-righteousness, please! (Yes, I'm a preacher's son ... :cool: )
 
Last edited:

scombrid

Senior Member.
I do wish the hoaxer hadn't decided to reveal the hoax here. I guess he wanted us all to see how clever he was. Or perhaps he was mad that metabunk was trying to alert Max Bliss to the hoax?
 

TheMindBoggles

New Member
I think this reaction is not funny in the least. It shows that it will be much harder to get believers to read more than just the topic titles here in the future.

To be honest, I dislike those (few) self-gratulatory posts that popped up after the hoax disclosure here.

I urge those who tend to come here mainly for amusement to apply more restraint. It does not hurt to stop and think a moment before pressing the "Reply" button, and then trying to imagine how a conspiracy believer would perceive the content of the posting.

Stop the ridiculing and the self-righteousness, please! (Yes, I'm a preacher's son ... :cool: )
I think the whole post was funny! Demanding Mick West take down the thread? Calling him a jerk, and a creep? Referring to Max Bliss as "a hero"?
OK, maybe not "funny", more ridiculous...
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
Yes, they are painting Metabunk with the blame for the hoax. I'm not sure it really matters, though. Metabunk is the enemy simply for existing and saying anything against their beliefs. It's inevitable, since the core of their belief system is that there is a conspiracy to control their lives(or end their lives). Here is a quoted response from a guy who was invited here to have a polite discussion, the other day.

"Metabunk IS GOVERNMENT TROLLS and ego-maniacal hyper-critics that have learned to take their own opinion as fact. No decent truthful person should EVER go there."


PS: EVERYTHING gets put through the filter of conspiracy by the believers and comes out as more proof of their beliefs.
 
Last edited:

mrfintoil

Senior Member.
Everything that is against their belief is part of the conspiracy. Nothing has changed really.
But I do have a feeling that Metabunk have the potential to become a conspiracy meme in the same way Monsanto have suffered. There are plenty of other companies doing the same stuff as Monsanto, but somehow all the blame is pinned on Monsanto alone. I guess it's part of the need to simplify issues to maintain a feeling of control.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.

Setting up the Jesus/truth martyr comparisons I see. These people just want to be the heroes of their own fantasy novel.
 

JFDee

Senior Member.
Demanding Mick West take down the thread? Calling him a jerk, and a creep? Referring to Max Bliss as "a hero"?
None of that - just keeping in mind that this site is intended to be useful, as opposed to just annother hangout which serves mainly as a chat platform.

OK, maybe not "funny", more ridiculous...
Is it useful to make such assessments? Who is the addressee of this statement?

In a nutshell: what is the point of posting how funny this is to you?

Edit: Annother thing I would like to suggest is avoiding sentences containing the phrase "these people" ...
 

JFDee

Senior Member.
Comments referring to the hoax on Max' video "CHEMTRAILS: The Beginning of the End (part2)" were just deleted. He is obviously dealing with the affair.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
None of that - just keeping in mind that this site is intended to be useful, as opposed to just annother hangout which serves mainly as a chat platform.
It is for this reason that I feel it is important to continue to debunk and discuss anything left uncovered in the claim. As I have mentioned Max does follow the forums and I would presume so do many others. Addressing the claims should out them to bed for good. e.g. I gave been discussing the issues around cost and logistics of TMA which is a nightmare.

Hoax or not this has been a good experience in general. I know I walked away with a great deal of knowledge, much thanks to Jay, and I suspect so have some chemtrailers. I appreciate that while a door may be closed on the claims someone else will be opening another, eventually they are going to run out of doors.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Edit: Annother thing I would like to suggest is avoiding sentences containing the phrase "these people" ...
Okay, specifically, THAT guy, and others like him in their community who share that observable trait.
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
Metabunk, for lack of a viable alternative, has become a focus for these believers.

Madisonstar moon has told me that I am "tainted" because I post here. She asked me if I was illuminati or a Freemason. Anything to explain why I don't believe in what she and her "millions" of fellow believers do.

Even if the hoaxer had not posted here, Metabunk would have been implicated by some anyway.

While it is inconvenient, what is not revealed is the many who see the name and come here to find an oasis of sanity, and leave feeling less afraid.

The tiny amount of true believers who express outrage are vastly outnumbered by those who are comforted.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The tiny amount of true believers who express outrage are vastly outnumbered by the people I mention.
Unfortunately I don't really think the hoax is going to help those people. It's a TL;DR thing. It's just stirred things up.
 
Top