London Woolwich Knife Attack: Conspiracy theories debunked by Infowars

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Noblelox

Member
How could Adabolajo attempt to sacrifice himself and leave his wife and 6 children to the state? A state who's policies he's fighting against. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that these guys had less than average intelligence and or mental issues. Clearly they've been involved in gangs and drugs and rather than getting on with life....education...career it's always been the wrong path. I can't help but think this has been driven by self percieved racism as reasoned / excused by a small percentage of failed black youth.

I'm sorry if that sounds racist from me but being as we know these perceptions exist I'd be more sorry if I'm wrong.
 

Brainiachick

Active Member
There was a lot of false claims about this. essentially conspiracy theories. although the shock people had here and blatant bias and prejudice clearly shows there is more afoot than meets the eye. after all we kill people in their countries. i wasnt surprised at all that they wanted reprisal. i am surprised there is not more. they must be good people judging by their lack of vengeance relative to all the people harmed in brown peoples countries.

You've completely lost me! What on earth do you mean by "after all we kill people in their countries" and "people harmed in brown peoples countries."? These two deranged lunatics are neither from Iraq nor Afghanistan. The UK has not harmed nor killed people in Britain or Nigeria! These two deranged lunatics are British-born Nigerians, so please do try and get your facts right before posting incendiary inaccuracies.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
I think that when they adopted the Muslim tag they adopted a new 'us and them' which was relative to the general Muslim experience (or their version of it) rather than their own . Though I'm sure they had some resentments born of their own experience, they channelled them into their idea of a Muslim agenda.
 

Brainiachick

Active Member
How could Adabolajo attempt to sacrifice himself and leave his wife and 6 children to the state? A state who's policies he's fighting against. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that these guys had less than average intelligence and or mental issues. Clearly they've been involved in gangs and drugs and rather than getting on with life....education...career it's always been the wrong path. I can't help but think this has been driven by self percieved racism as reasoned / excused by a small percentage of failed black youth.

I'm sorry if that sounds racist from me but being as we know these perceptions exist I'd be more sorry if I'm wrong.

There is nothing racist about your comment - it is the fact. Without meaning to be harsh, but at 29 6 children is much! Rather than get an education and a career, he obviously wasted his youth following and spreading extremism - he is simply lazy and not very bright. There are loads of black kids trying to get on with life and do the best for themselves and their families and there are the no-do-gooders that end up in gangs - whether they are deprived White, Asian or Black - gang culture and crime is an increasingly difficult problem in the UK, particularly London. When they are not in gangs they end up with Al-Qaeda or EDL or BNP! I remember many years ago a leaflet was sent to my home on behalf of a local young lady who was campaigning for votes to become the local MP [Member of Parliament] on the BNP platform - her manifesto was racism personified! To cap it up, she failed to demonstrate that she had any education beyond her O'Level GCSEs [High School Diploma] nor any professional experience to elicit confidence or votes - so her only credentials was that at 24, she was engaged to be married! How she got to become BNP's candidate was quite shocking but not surprising - BNP is that desperate! And like Al-Qaeda, they'd recruit any ready 'body' to be used and disposed off as at when necessary. These young people fall prey and when you take a closer look, you'll often find that these young people come from fragmented or dysfunctional family/social economic backgrounds - so these indoctrinations/set ups take on the form of surrogate families. Any smart young individual who knows his/her identity would not be so easily used.
 

Brainiachick

Active Member
I think that when they adopted the Muslim tag they adopted a new 'us and them' which was relative to the general Muslim experience (or their version of it) rather than their own . Though I'm sure they had some resentments born of their own experience, they channelled them into their idea of a Muslim agenda.

I totally concur!
 

Gary Cook

Active Member
You've completely lost me! What on earth do you mean by "after all we kill people in their countries" and "people harmed in brown peoples countries."? These two deranged lunatics are neither from Iraq nor Afghanistan. The UK has not harmed nor killed people in Britain or Nigeria! These two deranged lunatics are British-born Nigerians, so please do try and get your facts right before posting incendiary inaccuracies.

The are from Britain but their ancestors wouldn't of been. Imagine how it must feel to live in a country that has persecuted your relatives. I am not condoning their behaviour at all but the solution to violence in society is good role-models creating a society that people want to live in.
 

Gary Cook

Active Member
There is nothing racist about your comment - it is the fact. Without meaning to be harsh, but at 29 6 children is much! Rather than get an education and a career, he obviously wasted his youth following and spreading extremism - he is simply lazy and not very bright. There are loads of black kids trying to get on with life and do the best for themselves and their families and there are the no-do-gooders that end up in gangs - whether they are deprived White, Asian or Black - gang culture and crime is an increasingly difficult problem in the UK, particularly London. When they are not in gangs they end up with Al-Qaeda or EDL or BNP! I remember many years ago a leaflet was sent to my home on behalf of a local young lady who was campaigning for votes to become the local MP [Member of Parliament] on the BNP platform - her manifesto was racism personified! To cap it up, she failed to demonstrate that she had any education beyond her O'Level GCSEs [High School Diploma] nor any professional experience to elicit confidence or votes - so her only credentials was that at 24, she was engaged to be married! How she got to become BNP's candidate was quite shocking but not surprising - BNP is that desperate! And like Al-Qaeda, they'd recruit any ready 'body' to be used and disposed off as at when necessary. These young people fall prey and when you take a closer look, you'll often find that these young people come from fragmented or dysfunctional family/social economic backgrounds - so these indoctrinations/set ups take on the form of surrogate families. Any smart young individual who knows his/her identity would not be so easily used.

I disagree. It does seem a bit prejudice. I am mixed-race myself. Who is anybody to judge what a failed person is. They haven't failed unless they didnt achieve an objective. Going through state indoctrination and making money is not success by everybody's standards. Some people consider it the complete opposite of success, understandably.
 
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Gary Cook

Active Member
What's the state indoctrination do?
Can you give examples of the results?

It encourages and even tricks people in to being wards of the state. For, example.

By that I mean they tend to rely on the state too much for their survival and have to succumb to what the state decides for them. Even if they do not agree to it.

Since you asked me.
 
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Pete Tar

Senior Member.
So were they demonstrating their independence from state indoctrination by this violent action?
(ETA, well actually of course they were.)
It seemed you were making the 'state indoctrination' comment in opposition to this comment
which you equate with 'state indoctrination', but your point doesn't quite make sense in that if they were to be less dependent on the state then they would do that sort of thing wouldn't they?
Or do they demonstrate that by joining gangs and staying on welfare?
It's just a confusing term to chuck in there that makes it seem like you're advocating anti-social behaviour, given the context.
 

Gary Cook

Active Member
So were they demonstrating their independence from state indoctrination by this violent action?
(ETA, well actually of course they were.)
It seemed you were making the 'state indoctrination' comment in opposition to this comment
which you equate with 'state indoctrination', but your point doesn't quite make sense in that if they were to be less dependent on the state then they would do that sort of thing wouldn't they?
Or do they demonstrate that by joining gangs and staying on welfare?
It's just a confusing term to chuck in there that makes it seem like you're advocating anti-social behaviour, given the context.

I am not advocating anti-social behaviour but in my opinion the British government is like the biggest criminal group in history. I can hardly blame people for being that frustrated. Although of course I do not condone it. The obvious solution to violence is better role-models and creating a society people would want to be part of more. Not instigating violence as a country against other countries like the UK do on a regular basis now.

State indoctrination causes trauma, in my opinion. Some people react to trauma by hurting other people. That was my point.

Did that answer your questions?
 

Brainiachick

Active Member
Brainiachick said:
You've completely lost me! What on earth do you mean by "after all we kill people in their countries" and "people harmed in brown peoples countries."? These two deranged lunatics are neither from Iraq nor Afghanistan. The UK has not harmed nor killed people in Britain or Nigeria! These two deranged lunatics are British-born Nigerians, so please do try and get your facts right before posting incendiary inaccuracies.


The are from Britain but their ancestors wouldn't of been. Imagine how it must feel to live in a country that has persecuted your relatives. I am not condoning their behaviour at all but the solution to violence in society is good role-models creating a society that people want to live in.


I think I made it clear where their ancestors came from - Nigeria. The United Kingdom is not persecuting Nigeria and there is no war between Nigeria and the United Kingdom so your comment is far from accurate. What they did was plain, barbaric murder - pure and simple.
 

Brainiachick

Active Member
There is nothing racist about your comment - it is the fact. Without meaning to be harsh, but at 29 6 children is much! Rather than get an education and a career, he obviously wasted his youth following and spreading extremism - he is simply lazy and not very bright. There are loads of black kids trying to get on with life and do the best for themselves and their families and there are the no-do-gooders that end up in gangs - whether they are deprived White, Asian or Black - gang culture and crime is an increasingly difficult problem in the UK, particularly London. When they are not in gangs they end up with Al-Qaeda or EDL or BNP! I remember many years ago a leaflet was sent to my home on behalf of a local young lady who was campaigning for votes to become the local MP [Member of Parliament] on the BNP platform - her manifesto was racism personified! To cap it up, she failed to demonstrate that she had any education beyond her O'Level GCSEs [High School Diploma] nor any professional experience to elicit confidence or votes - so her only credentials was that at 24, she was engaged to be married! How she got to become BNP's candidate was quite shocking but not surprising - BNP is that desperate! And like Al-Qaeda, they'd recruit any ready 'body' to be used and disposed off as at when necessary. These young people fall prey and when you take a closer look, you'll often find that these young people come from fragmented or dysfunctional family/social economic backgrounds - so these indoctrinations/set ups take on the form of surrogate families. Any smart young individual who knows his/her identity would not be so easily used.


I disagree. It does seem a bit prejudice. I am mixed-race myself. Who is anybody to judge what a failed person is. They haven't failed unless they didnt achieve an objective. Going through state indoctrination and making money is not success by everybody's standards. Some people consider it the complete opposite of success, understandably.


Gary what exactly do you disagree with in my comment? There is nothing racist about Noblelox's comment on the obvious. Did this young man have a career? An education? Contributed to his community in some way? No! He had a wife and fathered 6 children at 29. You are right that society should have good role models - so what sort of role model do you think he has made for his children who see a father that has no job, has no positive goal to better his life and those of people around him and worst of all, hacks off a defenceless man's head in broad day light and boasts about it! You want to talk about role model?

His action is not predicated upon his race - it was very much his choice to murder that young man. Those 2 were not the only black young men in Woolwich - in fact Woolwich is full of Nigerians and other black African Brits, so why these two? CHOICE. We all have choices to make in life and we live by the consequences thereof.

In my response to Noblelox's post, I touched on more than one race - black, white, asian - the plain truth is there is scum in every race, and there is good in every race. So stating the obvious is not racist or prejudicial in any shape or form. Mentioning that you are mixed-raced does not add any credence to the content of your statement one way or the other, but thanks for the information.

As for what the yardstick for success is - I think that is the brink of rhetoric. Murdering someone can never be seen as some form of success or is that what you are implying?
 
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Brainiachick

Active Member
It encourages and even tricks people in to being wards of the state. For, example.

By that I mean they tend to rely on the state too much for their survival and have to succumb to what the state decides for them. Even if they do not agree to it.

Since you asked me.

This is rather vague. Can you provide specifics please?
 

Brainiachick

Active Member
@Brainachick why is having 6 kids ar 29 a bit much?

6 Kids at 29 with a career, income, and a clear head to raise those children and be a positive role model to them would be wonderful. But 6 Kids at 29 with no career, or income and committing murder and boasting about it is a bit much! Who is paying for those kids? I won't be surprised it is our wonderful DWP/tax-payer.
 

Seeker

New Member
It encourages and even tricks people in to being wards of the state. For, example.

By that I mean they tend to rely on the state too much for their survival and have to succumb to what the state decides for them. Even if they do not agree to it.

Since you asked me.

Your post is confusing. You said making money and state indoctrination was not success but now you are talking about over-reliance on the state. People who make money are not usually the ones that over-rely on the state. It is people with no career or jobs or money and who you said we should not judge as being unsuccessful. Loads of contradictions in your posts.
 

Brainiachick

Active Member
I am not advocating anti-social behaviour but in my opinion the British government is like the biggest criminal group in history. I can hardly blame people for being that frustrated. Although of course I do not condone it. The obvious solution to violence is better role-models and creating a society people would want to be part of more. Not instigating violence as a country against other countries like the UK do on a regular basis now.

State indoctrination causes trauma, in my opinion. Some people react to trauma by hurting other people. That was my point.

Did that answer your questions?

Whilst I agree with you that role models and creating a society people wan to be part of more, it is not true that the UK regularly instigate violence against other countries. If the UK intervenes, they are blamed for instigating violence; if they don't they are blamed for not caring enough. It would seem to be a case of 'if you do you are damned and if you don't you are damned'. Whilst the West have home-grown terrorists and dissidents, how many Al Qaeda break-aways do we have who are ratting out their countries' actions? I am not aware of any.

Indoctrination causes trauma? Please explain. There is no mitigation for hurting other people - it is very much a decision/choice.
 

occams rusty scissor

Senior Member.
Gary Cook - I'm still not sue how the state "indoctrinates" people. Can you explain how?

Are you trying to say that the government wants people to be dependent on welfare?

Even so, this wasn't a point that adebolajo and his co-accused was trying to make. They killed someone in the most brutal and public way they could and tried to use religion as the reason, as if they had personally suffered for what the government had done.
In reality they've been living the good life in Britain and were nowhere near any war zones.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
6 Kids at 29 with a career, income, and a clear head to raise those children and be a positive role model to them would be wonderful. But 6 Kids at 29 with no career, or income and committing murder and boasting about it is a bit much! Who is paying for those kids? I won't be surprised it is our wonderful DWP/tax-payer.

That sounds very much Daily Mail talk. I had 5 kids at 29 and I know that even when on benefits it is no picnic and hardly getting paid. Jumping to judgements around his family is hardly useful.
 

Seeker

New Member
That sounds very much Daily Mail talk. I had 5 kids at 29 and I know that even when on benefits it is no picnic and hardly getting paid. Jumping to judgements around his family is hardly useful.


Did you run a man down in the middle of the street with a car and then attack him with a meat cleaver like a butcher would meat? What is your point? The difference between you and the murderer is not that you have children but that you are raising yours and are not in prison for the murder of an innocent man. Why is that Daily Mail talk? How is that judgemental?
 

Seeker

New Member
Gary Cook - I'm still not sue how the state "indoctrinates" people. Can you explain how?

Are you trying to say that the government wants people to be dependent on welfare?

Even so, this wasn't a point that adebolajo and his co-accused was trying to make. They killed someone in the most brutal and public way they could and tried to use religion as the reason, as if they had personally suffered for what the government had done.
In reality they've been living the good life in Britain and were nowhere near any war zones.

Im surprised this glaring fact is lost on some.
 

Gary Cook

Active Member
Im surprised this glaring fact is lost on some.

That is if you do not consider Britain a war zone, many do consider it exactly that. And like I said, I don't condone violence but maybe they were getting vengeance for bad things that were done to their ancestors. Things will only get worse if we officially go in to Syria and Iran. They are not as infiltrated already like places like Irag were. Those guys wont just die quietly. They will fight to the death and I cant blame them. I would to if somebody invaded my homeland. It is like the only tool the West has is a big hammer so everything has to look like a nail.
 

Gary Cook

Active Member
Gary Cook - I'm still not sue how the state "indoctrinates" people. Can you explain how?

Are you trying to say that the government wants people to be dependent on welfare?

Even so, this wasn't a point that adebolajo and his co-accused was trying to make. They killed someone in the most brutal and public way they could and tried to use religion as the reason, as if they had personally suffered for what the government had done.
In reality they've been living the good life in Britain and were nowhere near any war zones.

I think the government does want some people on welfare. It justifies forcing "taxation" out of people and creates an army out of the "welfare class". One that can be used against the "working class."

Religion wasnt their only excuse. They also mention Britain being an aggressive country which I have to agree with them on. Not that I done don't what they did of course.
 

occams rusty scissor

Senior Member.
I think the government does want some people on welfare. It justifies forcing "taxation" out of people and creates an army out of the "welfare class". One that can be used against the "working class."

Dont you think that would be a bit counter productive? Paying out welfare is a huge drain on any government, especially in large numbers.

Why would they want an "army" of unemployed? That's only going to ruin the economy and lead to further problems. I don't see how any of your argument makes sense. There is no conspiracy here.

If u watch the video of Adebolajo raving after the murder, he openly states they are "soldiers of Allah" and that "you people will never be safe". It was all about murdering in the name of religion.

but maybe they were getting vengeance for bad things that were done to their ancestors

Once again - their ancestors were Nigerian. Not related to the current conflicts Britain is involved with, nor any previous ones that I'm aware of.
 

nanotchi

Member
That is if you do not consider Britain a war zone, many do consider it exactly that. And like I said, I don't condone violence but maybe they were getting vengeance for bad things that were done to their ancestors. Things will only get worse if we officially go in to Syria and Iran. They are not as infiltrated already like places like Irag were. Those guys wont just die quietly. They will fight to the death and I cant blame them. I would to if somebody invaded my homeland. It is like the only tool the West has is a big hammer so everything has to look like a nail.
I don't know, it seems better then mexico
 

Melbury's Brick

Senior Member.
I think the government does want some people on welfare. It justifies forcing "taxation" out of people and creates an army out of the "welfare class". One that can be used against the "working class."

A high level of unemployment is one sure way to get yourself voted out. Why would the party in power want that? In what way is the "welfare class" an army? How is it being used against the working class?

They will fight to the death and I cant blame them. I would to if somebody invaded my homeland.
They're both from London and grew up Christians in families from Nigeria. this had NOTHING to do with their "homeland" being invaded. It is entirely the result of religions/cults/sects warping the minds of the young and vulnerable.
 
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Alhazred The Sane

Senior Member.
The United Kingdom is not persecuting Nigeria and there is no war between Nigeria and the United Kingdom so your comment is far from accurate. What they did was plain, barbaric murder - pure and simple.

While the UK govt is not 'persecuting' Nigeria and there is no war between the countries ... spend a year or so there and you'll have a different perception of how things work for ordinary Nigerians. The oil corporations, and the associated multinationals, more or less own the oppressive regime that governs. The continued expansion of Islam in that country has a lot to do with the injustice there. Raw Islam is a kind of socialism, an open discussion. At the extreme end, well we've seen where it goes.

And yes, the crime was barbaric. I'm not justifying it, or even attempting to. But don't dismiss the perpetrators out of hand. You might not get or understand their motivations. We need to. The sooner we understand why oppressed people on the other side of the planet are pissed off with Western interference, occupation, and domination, then the sooner we can sort this out. At the moment, the working class in western countries are furious with people who have more in common with them than they realise.
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
A high level of unemployment is one sure way to get yourself voted out. Why would the party in power want that? In what way is the "welfare class" an army? How is it being used against the working class?

It's like George Carlin said, the poor are there to scare the $#ît out of the working class, give them a reason to keep showing up at those menial jobs to support themselves.
But you're right, I doubt people in office are literally trying to make people poor. Then again, some may be, who knows their real motives. Not every person is a good person with solid intentions.
 

occams rusty scissor

Senior Member.
While the UK govt is not 'persecuting' Nigeria and there is no war between the countries ... spend a year or so there and you'll have a different perception of how things work for ordinary Nigerians. The oil corporations, and the associated multinationals, more or less own the oppressive regime that governs. The continued expansion of Islam in that country has a lot to do with the injustice there. Raw Islam is a kind of socialism, an open discussion. At the extreme end, well we've seen where it goes.

Yes, agreed. Nigeria may not be the most fun place to be, and I understand the general emotions of anger resulting from corporate oppression. It's a horrible situation that's repeated in a lot of different countries who are resource rich. However it still isn't really linked to this.

And yes, the crime was barbaric. I'm not justifying it, or even attempting to. But don't dismiss the perpetrators out of hand. You might not get or understand their motivations. We need to. The sooner we understand why oppressed people on the other side of the planet are pissed off with Western interference, occupation, and domination, then the sooner we can sort this out. At the moment, the working class in western countries are furious with people who have more in common with them than they realise.

Again, I agree somewhat. But again, these guys were not oppressed Nigerian immigrants who were trying to make their cause known, nor were they displaced refugees - they were raised in the UK with all the entitlements, freedoms and opportunities that so many others have been able to build a decent life from. And they're happy enough to live within these freedoms and take what they want from this society, but then murder someone in protest of it? Smells like BS to me.

Yes the situation may suck for some of their Muslim brethren - so go over there and help them then instead of whining about how "evil and aggressive" England is while you reap the benefits of living there.
 

Brainiachick

Active Member
While the UK govt is not 'persecuting' Nigeria and there is no war between the countries ... spend a year or so there and you'll have a different perception of how things work for ordinary Nigerians. The oil corporations, and the associated multinationals, more or less own the oppressive regime that governs. The continued expansion of Islam in that country has a lot to do with the injustice there. Raw Islam is a kind of socialism, an open discussion. At the extreme end, well we've seen where it goes.

And yes, the crime was barbaric. I'm not justifying it, or even attempting to. But don't dismiss the perpetrators out of hand. You might not get or understand their motivations. We need to. The sooner we understand why oppressed people on the other side of the planet are pissed off with Western interference, occupation, and domination, then the sooner we can sort this out. At the moment, the working class in western countries are furious with people who have more in common with them than they realise.


I spent many years in many countries in Africa - the bulk of my time there being spent in Nigeria - so I know exactly what you are talking about with regards to that region and I agree with you that it is not the most conducive place on earth. However your explanations, albeit accurate, completely fall out of the context of Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale murder of Lee Rigby. Whilst oil corporations' domination of Nigeria [not ignoring the effect of the established and institutionalised mega-corruption that runs through the rank and file of the Nigerian governments and establishments] may cause financial deprivation for the ordinary citizens, it has nothing to do with these 2 Michaels attacking and murdering Lee Rigby on the street of Woolwich! They are mutually exclusive.

The killers made that point clear. They never made reference to their motivation being Britain's 'attack' on Nigeria as that is non-existent, but that it was religiously motivated - 'an eye for an eye', they stated. At their trial, their sole legal defence was that they were soldiers of Allah - that of course was the worst defence possible as it is a moot point - there's no such defence under the law. Poorest legal defence strategy anyone can conjure. The fact that they are Nigerians was not even featured in the press as I'd have expected the British press to have done.
 
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Brainiachick

Active Member
That sounds very much Daily Mail talk. I had 5 kids at 29 and I know that even when on benefits it is no picnic and hardly getting paid. Jumping to judgements around his family is hardly useful.

Cherry-picking the aspect of the comment you do not agree with without the benefit of the context of the entire statement is counter-productive unless of course if you are confirming that running a man down on the street and then attacking him with a meat cleaver in broad day light is the way we should be great parents and role models for our kids.

Having children at a relatively young age and raising them right draws no criticism from me or any normal person, but when you do have children and all we offer them is violence, hate, racism etc as role modelling, then I have a problem with that and I am surprised that you don't. Nobody is jumping to judgement about his family background - the facts have been laid bare publicly. If stating the obvious is what you refer to as Daily Mail, then I'm fine with it. His own mother condemns what he did.

On another note, a young lady has now alleged that Adebolajo drugged and raped her at the age of 14, but I hesitate to comment on that as it is a private and an alleged crime which have not been prosecuted and as such no credible evidence either way to support the veracity or lack of thereof. Crimes do not spring up from nowhere, they start gradually and progress, so ignoring the symptoms leads us to where we are now - an innocent dead man and 2 raving young lunatics behind bars - yet we are not to make any comments on the obvious?
 

Pete

Member
There seems to be an awful lot of politics and conjecture here, which is all off topic.

As far as I can see, the whole notion of "false flag" is a term that annoys me and is far overused these days. Anyone would think its a new concept, it isn't. Sadly terrorism often breeds where there is poverty and tension, and the perpetrators are the unhinged sort. These guys fit the bill and did something horrible.
 

occams rusty scissor

Senior Member.
Yeah it got off topic pretty quickly. Its just one of those conversations that polarises people pretty quickly. Like I've said along with everyone else, there's no conspiracy here, just a horrible tragedy.
 
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