Las Vegas Concert Mass Shooting

mrfintoil

Senior Member.
Interesting considering that most who are into the 'false flag' narrative would say that this is not something orchestrated by the current government, but the opposition who wishes to overthrow it.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Interesting considering that most who are into the 'false flag' narrative would say that this is not something orchestrated by the current government, but the opposition who wishes to overthrow it.

Those conspiracists who think Trump's administration would not do such a thing are blaming it on the "Deep State", which would include the FBI and the Media.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/alex-...massacre-even-his-staff-wont-go-along-with-it
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...elease-any-information-on-las-vegas-shooting/
 

mrfintoil

Senior Member.
Well explained, @Mick West. The term "deep state" has been mentioned way more frequently now when Trump is US president. Never heard the term before Trump won the election.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Well explained, @Mick West. The term "deep state" has been mentioned way more frequently now when Trump is US president. Never heard the term before Trump won the election.
It was only really coined in it's current context in 2014 by Mike Lofgren
http://billmoyers.com/2014/02/21/anatomy-of-the-deep-state/
This was then taken up in 2016 by Breitbart, and others, to explain why Trump was having difficulty A) getting elected and then B) getting things done. However the meaning has shifted from Lofgren's "not an exposé of a secret, conspiratorial cabal; the state within a state is hiding mostly in plain sight, and its operators mainly act in the light of day", to something that more closely resembles exactly "a secret, conspiratorial cabal". It's an easy thing for conspiracists to latch onto and flavor with their own world view.

In this case we have Jones blaming "deep state Democrats", which is really just continuing the theme. However in the years after 9/11 the deep state was considered by most conspiracists to be right wing, Cheney and Bush - but with a "New World Order" globalism flavor.

The party in power just kind of flavors what people imagine the 'deep state' to be. I wonder though how the Vegas shooting would have been perceived if it happened in the Bush years? Probably still some kind of FEMA camp style "coming to take away out guns to user in the United Nations invasion" type thing.
 

Hevach

Senior Member.
it is official statements. Sheriff Lombardi. of course the next day they changed it to 23 firearms in the hotel.

add: "in excess of 10 suitcase" doesn't mean suitcases filled with bullets. THe question was how he got the weapons into the room.


https://www.youtube.com/user/LasVegasPolice/videos
On another site I saw a rundown of Nevada's firearms laws. I'm not familiar with every state, but theirs seemed far more permissive than any I was. Anyway, I'm guessing a hotel that can't really do anything about it until almost after shooting has started doesn't bother to check.

Also, being Vegas, having lots of bags isn't that unusual - there's always conventions in town (I know somebody who took five suitcases just for two days at the Star Trek Las Vegas convention a couple months ago), lots of long term visitors, especially wealthy retirees like this guy, and the problem gamblers who bring personal things to hock for emergency cash, the Pawn Stars crowd who think they'll hit it rich at one of the upscale pawn shops with all their "antiques" (also, coincidentally, often retirees). Having ten suitcases is probably unusual in the, "Huh, wonder which one he's going to," sense than the, "Damn, I bet he's up to something," sense.

Good point well made. Balancing that, though, not all bullets will have hit someone. Counting the gunshot sounds on the recordings would presumably tell.

Either way, though, even a single automatic weapon in his hands in that situation would class to me as a terrifying amount of firepower, but that may be coloured by me being British. It seems insane to make that sort of weapon so widely available.
They aren't, even in the reddest of the red states. They're not completely unavailable, but the special credentials you need to buy one legally are hard to come by and basically constitute an invitation for a variety of agencies to drop by and look at your stuff without warning.

Now, the guns he actually had were all widely available in their base, civilian model forms. Those forms are basically just like any other rifle, but dressed up in a cooler military looking package. They're semiautomatic, have reasonably sized magazines, nothing fancy like compensators or suppressors. Plenty of mass shootings have been accomplished with them, but nothing on this kind of scale. Had those weapons still been in the form he probably bought them in, you could probably drop a digit off of the casualty numbers.

However, a little loophole in US gun laws: Components and mod kits are almost 100% unregulated. The stuff you need isn't nearly as available as the basic guns themselves, but it's out there. Meaning once you have that impressive looking rifle that's only slightly more dangerous as a cheap hunting rifle, all it takes is a few trips to gun shows and a few YouTube how-tos and you can convert it into something totally else, the likes of which you would never, ever be able to actually purchase legally (hell, in some cases even illegally).
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
Having ten suitcases is probably unusual, but considering the area, it seems to me it'd be unusual in the, "Huh, wonder which one he's going to," sense than the, "Damn, I bet he's up to something," sense.
I would need 10 suitcases to stay in that room. I've seen those 'how clean is your hotel room' shows. I would need enough sheets to cover every surface, including the floor, that I can't wash with the gallon of bleach I brought.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Also, being Vegas, having lots of bags isn't that unusual - there's always conventions in town (I know somebody who took five suitcases just for two days at the Star Trek Las Vegas convention a couple months ago),

And it's not even that unusual to bring in large odd-shaped cases if you are going to a convention or you are part of a film crew.

However these guns do break down into shorter pieces (which you can re-assemble in literally seconds). There's many possible ways of getting the guns in there - but all basically just carrying them in.



 
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Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/05/us/las-vegas-shooting-latest/index.html

 

deirdre

Senior Member.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/05/us/las-vegas-shooting-latest/index.html



 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
There are high capacity drum magazines. But I didn't realize there are practical 100 round box magazines for .223 caliber rifles.

I think I've found the exact make and model Paddock was using.

http://www.surefire.com/mag5-100.html

Surefire
MAG5-100
High-Capacity Magazine, 100-Round

Photo from Ad


Cropped photo - Paddock's room


From review of product


Paddock's room




More Internet photos of product








Uncropped photo of Paddock's room
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The police will report the types of guns used in due course, I don't think there's much to gain from speculating. We know that guns can be broken down, we know that you can take large cases into hotels. The precise gun model is not that relevant - unless there's some false claim out there that needs debunking with that information.
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
In the upper right of this photo is something that's apparently being grabbed onto. I can't yet point to any specific site or video. This is just an informal post from someone on another [forum]:


 
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Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
An entirely different theory: Paddock left a note on the Strip (Las Vegas Blvd.) near the Mandalay Bay Hotel, that was later found. (Apparently two sides of the same 3x5 card.)






Paddock has consistently been described as not religious. I live in Las Vegas, (the Mandalay Bay is about 4 miles down the road from my home, btw), and I can say from personal experience that it's not at all unusual to see people on the Strip proselytizing. There's nothing at all surprising or unusual about this note on the light post.




But at least one YT video author is confusing the two issues and identifying one of these notes as the note left in the room.

 
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SR1419

Senior Member.
something that's apparently being grabbed onto

Its been addressed by the authorities. Not the answer anyone is looking for no doubt.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/us/las-vegas-shooting.html
 

Graham2001

Active Member
It was only really coined in it's current context in 2014 by Mike Lofgren
http://billmoyers.com/2014/02/21/anatomy-of-the-deep-state/

The term might have originated in 2014, but the concept has probably been out there for much longer, there are two computer games (1993's Shadow President and it's sequel CyberJudas, released 1996) which worked on the idea that the player was the 'power behind the president', manipulating the levers of power.
 

Rory

Senior Member.
An entirely different theory: Paddock left a note on the Strip (Las Vegas Blvd.) near the Mandalay Bay Hotel, that was later found. (Apparently two sides of the same 3x5 card.)
Looks like different handwriting on each of the notes, and not the same kind of card either. Though I didn't see anything in the video saying it was two sides of the same card.

Also, the facebook group where I believe these were first posted - a self-described "hate group" - has now taken them down.
 
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Rory

Senior Member.
It's interesting that the police have been quoted as saying they believed he had help - which is probably what conspiracy theorists believe too (they do seem to have a hard time accepting 'lone shooters'.)
Personally, I don't see why anyone would 'need help' to do something like this: seems a pretty straightforward idea, really.
 

Hevach

Senior Member.
I mean... Yeah, he bought a bunch of guns, but over an extended amount of time in a state with very lax laws. He had at least some of them illegally modified, but the parts and mod kits can be bought off the internet or even from some gun stores and many gun shows since the parts themselves are not subject to any restrictions. The work can be done with some minor handyman skills by watching tutorials on YouTube or you can probably pay somebody at a gun show to do it for you. Ammunition is small and can be bought in bulk.

Everything else was just carrying things to a place, opening a window, and then a few minutes of spray-and-pray. Automatic fire with large magazines on a dense crowd from above is just about the perfect setup to inflict lots of casualties.


And to boot the guy was rich, and money is about the only reason just any person couldn't do this any day of the week, because all that hardware isn't cheap.
 

vooke

Active Member
It's interesting that the police have been quoted as saying they believed he had help - which is probably what conspiracy theorists believe too (they do seem to have a hard time accepting 'lone shooters'.)
Personally, I don't see why anyone would 'need help' to do something like this: seems a pretty straightforward idea, really.


It’s not necessarily a missing accomplice or ‘help’ but whether anyone can pull such an act(acquiring the guns,ammunition,storing and moving them,scouting for targets...) without anybody’s knowledge
 

Rory

Senior Member.
Don’t let Deirdre catch you; she believes Lombardo never said nor hinted at such a thing.
Lol. I was thinking as I posted it: "maybe I should quote the original source on this" for just that reason. ;)

But, anyway, here it is:


Of course, there's no confirmation that Paddock "had help" in there, as you originally asserted, and though it certainly appeared to be Lombardo's belief at this time, I guess it's a stretch to say it's the belief of the police as a whole, the FBI, etc.

Lombardo's hypothesis - though I do think he generally comes across really well in these press conferences - just sounds like an argument from incredulity to me.
 
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tadaaa

Senior Member
I mean... Yeah, he bought a bunch of guns, but over an extended amount of time in a state with very lax laws. He had at least some of them illegally modified, but the parts and mod kits can be bought off the internet or even from some gun stores and many gun shows since the parts themselves are not subject to any restrictions. The work can be done with some minor handyman skills by watching tutorials on YouTube or you can probably pay somebody at a gun show to do it for you. Ammunition is small and can be bought in bulk.

.

the Bump stop mechanism just makes the technique of getting a Semi Auto to act like auto much easier - if you are proficient in gun handling you can get the same results without using a bump stop

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G6hUPg2y4c
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/las-ve...note-hotel-room-details-of-bullet-trajectory/

 

Marin B

Active Member
The following claim was made by Dane Wiggington about 5 minutes into his Oct. 7th "Global Alert News" program (My CTist family member urged me to listen to this particular episode):

I heard a similar claim earlier in the week by a talk radio show host. So I tried to look into this claim, and the best I could find is an article from a hotel management publication that suggests that such sensors exist but are not used by all hotels:

 

Rory

Senior Member.
Well, the plot around the timeline thickens. Earlier this week the police revised it to say that the security guard had been shot 6 minutes before Paddock started shooting the crowd - which certainly raised eyebrows - but now the Mandalay Hotel themselves are disputing this, saying:
The article, which says this new information "raises fresh questions...about the gunman wasn't stopped", starts by talking about a maintenance man who was also on the 32nd floor at the time Campos was shot, and who immediately called his dispatchers.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
man who was also on the 32nd floor at the time Campos was shot
actually he says
So based on the CBS article, Campos was already shot when the maintenance guy saw him. In the Tuesday press briefing, Lombardo had said the reason the original timeline was confused was because Campos was badly shaken at what was happening.
Probably best to let the police (vs. the hotel, the maintenance man or Campos) sort it out. I know with the SH shooting, when you read the official investigation report they interviewed all people (including first responders, ambulance, teachers, victims) multiple times over time- I imagine because memory in high stress situations can be faulty.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
October 13th press briefing. Sheriff Lomabardo.

He covers various information.
  • update on victims (injuries now 546, 501 discharged as of 8am., currently still 58 deceased),
  • fuel tanks "believed fired upon with intent",
  • explains discrepancy of check in dates.. the 25th vs 28th (name change on registration),
  • autopsy.. his brain has been sent to appropriate facility for microscopic forensics.. the report of nothing abnormal in brain was a visual inspection only.
  • then at 8 mins he explains the TIMELINE issue. And lists all the sources used to verify the timeline.
9:59 Campos runs into barricaded stairwell door and reports it. This has been verified with a human entry into a security log.
Campos then finds another way up to the 32nd floor to check on the 'door ajar' alarm. He mitigates that issue and is "subsequently received fire from the suspect".

Mr. Campos received his wound in close proximity to the 22:05 time (when outside shooting began). He relayed his being fired upon via his radio and also via his cellphone. Bothe sources have been verified.

22:17 Officers first arrive on the 32nd floor. At that time [all sounds of] firing had ceased.
Source: https://youtu.be/2Gs9hIufmAo?t=480
 

derwoodii

Senior Member.
sadly multiple shooter claims are thriving with CT sites eg Natural news et al claims an audio analysis reveals 2 sources of gun fire.. My 1st look listen at this tells me they are hearing the rifle burst and then the bullets sonic crack & echo & not the ricochet or bullet impact to concrete, as you would not hear this over the other back ground noise..
Perhaps another thread is needed but Id rather not link NN health ranger youtube as prefer not to give his sites the click and i not link the liveleak on site vids as they're pretty awful.. Much of the claims rests on the audio last bang then crack this is not 2 guns but the same one giving muzzle blast then bullet sonic crack & echo.
 

derwoodii

Senior Member.
U.S.
10 Minutes. 12 Gunfire Bursts. 30 Videos. Mapping the Las Vegas Massacre.
By MALACHY BROWNE, DREW JORDAN, NICOLE FINEMAN and CHRIS CIRILLO | Oct. 21, 2017 | 11:00
The shots began at 10:05. Twelve bursts of gunfire later, the police broke down Stephen Paddock’s door at the Mandalay Bay. The Times mapped 30 videos to draw perhaps the most complete picture to date of what happened.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000005473328/las-vegas-shooting-timeline-12-bursts.html?action=click&gtype=vhs&version=vhs-heading&module=vhs&region=title-area
 

john Mont

New Member
Interesting considering that most who are into the 'false flag' narrative would say that this is not something orchestrated by the current government, but the opposition who wishes to overthrow it.
 

john Mont

New Member
I seems to be SOP for some bloggers that every time a non Moslem does a mass killing to say it was faked by THEM to take our guns or other nefarious reasons!
 

derwoodii

Senior Member.
some new news in,,



KEN RITTER
,
Associated Press•December 22, 2017

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coroner-gunfire-killed-58-victims-las-vegas-shooting-010056554.html



tho not sure how you access a state corners
report but here the web site http://www.clarkcountynv.gov/coroner/Pages/default.aspx


mod add: link to the report https://www.scribd.com/document/367...ath-for-Las-Vegas-shooting-victims#from_embed
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Preliminary police report released:
https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/shootings/sheriff-lombardo-holds-briefing-on-las-vegas-shooting/
https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/369536524-oct-1-report-2-pdf.31132/

 

Attachments

  • 369536524-Oct-1-Report 2.pdf
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pony

New Member
 Paddock acted alone.

This week, Las Vegas Metro said that they are continuing to investigate and will possibly bring criminal charges related to the shooting.

From this article from the Las Vegas Review-Journal, "Criminal charges possible in Las Vegas shooting, lawyers say"

Obviously, it may be possible the charges would be related to the investigation and not the shooting itself. Still, it's another mixed message from LV Metro.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Still, it's another mixed message from LV Metro.
what mixed message?

although what Lombardo says specifically @2:30 in the Fox link is
2:30 "as to any other people, the FBI has an ongoing case against an individual of federal interest", the statement is not directly linked to his discussing discovery of child pornography on Paddock's computer.

So, this doesn't necessarily mean in the child pornography ..although it very well might. (and hopefully does).

In the Sandy Hook investigation, the gun store (who legally sold the guns to the shooter's mother) faced criminal charges that were discovered in the course of investigating the shooting.

add: or it could be something like illegal money transfer discovered. Note he said "of FEDERAL INTEREST".

So basically, it could be anything at this point.
 
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